The Syndicate

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:47 pm Is there incentive for town to not alignment claim at this point?

:Shrug:

I think we're mostly solved at this point. TSP is town imo, even if he isn't claiming. I would be shocked if he's a wolf here.

Urist hasn't claimed but he's breadcrumbed so many details he basically has to be ACE of the BoS.

(Not that I am suggesting Marmot in particular is stupid, just in general anyone in that situation)

Marmot probably town because its unlikely to be in vague CC-territory with another enclave member imo.

Unless they're being stupid or trying to WIFOM about it.

I think the only way Jack can be town here is if Sprityo is Frank and he's just vigging one of his own but I already town-read his slot earlier.

Heck being BoS kinda adds to Space Daisy's reaction to the message that claimed to be Luke because, well, what are the chances you're contacted by one of your own town faction on n1 lol.

Top + Mid quote shows lack of information that likely would have been shared in enclave chat by Grogu imo.

Last quote, especially with its timing starting only a very tiny wagon for that day phase, shows a very unlikely w-against-w push.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:16 pm I still like Sprityo as town for the note pass thingie.

Maybe it’s just Jack, Grogu and LC.

If Grogu is Enclave then...

Unfortunately for you, that also shows potentially non-w/w interactions.

Not just with Chop Chop, but also with Grogu.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:07 pm Someone said red check on him today I think.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 8:10 pm Ok, not so much a red check:

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:26 am because sloonei is lock town

We will see about that tonight. On the other hand falcon is one of the wolves, I know this for a fact u less something very weird happened.
He needs to claim what he did last night. He’s caught

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:33 pm

Grogu wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:51 pm

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:29 pm Kill me if you want, though I'd advise you spend time on trying to find mafia since way more greens have died, though I don't feel liek trying so if killing me is what you come to lose, it gets me out of feeling obligated to show up

This is always town. Last night it was clear we had scum between chop and rej. We made the wromg choice and should kill chop today. Why is no one voting them?

Grogu looks pretty bad here.

[VOTE: grogu] aubergine

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:22 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:27 am

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:20 am

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:29 am

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 amOOOOOO MORE SPICE

Sadly that’s all the spice I got. Your move scum @falcon45ca

Why don't you look at my pushes this past RD, I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out

grogu is claiming you are 100% guilty, you should just fullclaim.

As far as I can see, Grogu hasn't said I'm 100% guilty of. I'd like to hear what he has to say I'm guilty of first.

What did you do last night. What action did you use on Alison?

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:26 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:58 am

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:56 am

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:53 am

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:52 am

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:45 am I should be able to confirm Falcon’s check tonight.
Then we can be real Masons if he Legit.

i have a feeling that grogu isn't going to be claiming tracker/watcher LOL

Why’s that?

setting aside the likely situation where grogu hasn't read anything all game...
let's say that grogu watches alison and sees only falcon visit her.
even if he's paying close attention and gleans the fact that falcon role-copped alison, why would that make him a wolf in grogu's eyes? that doesn't make any sense. the more rational action for grogu to take there is to back falcon up, not call him a wolf.

Why are you assuming that Grogu is being honest? Look at my push of Alison, tell me you don't believe that I checked her

Oh so it was a check? Hmm that kinda makes sense. Nvm
I saw falcon not claiming as him hiding info from us but makes sense if he wants to stay alive plus he stopped being annoying and talking about me. I just never thought it would be a check because why not check me? I guess it makes sense now that you mention it.
Ok VOTE Alison

(This also ignores the fact that if he got an invention, someone else here has to be an invention giver and I don't see anybody being that rn)

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:07 pm @MartinGG99 what was the reason that grogu couldnt have used an invention? i havent read anything before day 5

Basically Inventions have to be passed out during the night phase.

Quickest chance to use them is n2. Grogu claimed a track or watch of some sort on day 2. Which means he used his own role on night 1.

On D2 he hastily scum-read Falcon for something; if there was something about your slot during that time he would've mentioned it I think but he didn't. Which means he had a 2nd shot or more of track or watch unless he got an invention later with a really lucky "Track" rand of it.

Plus many other things that just make it seem really unlikely for Grogu to *not* be one of those roles I gave earlier, if he's town.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:01 pm This whole claim order thing is silly tbh.

Wolves have fake claims anyway.

The only way anyone gets CCed is by being stupid.

It is silly.

Though I'm not sure if one has to be really stupid to get mech-shaded or mech-caught because the dynamics of balance in this game are likely really sensitive and with all the nuances of past day phases and deaths it makes it tricky probably for even a typical player to claim something safe.

After all, they aren't informed of how informed some towns are.

Well Grogu hasn't claimed but he basically outed himself as being in potential CC-territory with 2 players.

Oh yeah. @Marmot who in the world did you cop and what was it?

Now that basically everyone that I was concerned with has claimed.

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:42 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:37 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:31 pm Joshua
Additionally, you're a 2-shot limited tracker. Twice during the game during any separate night phases you may select a player. You will be told who that player targeted if anyone. This cannot detect fatal actions.

AHS-9
Separately, you're a 2-shot limited watcher. Twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. You will be told who targeted that player that night if anyone. This cannot detect fatal actions.


These are the only things Grogu could be.

He had mech info on D2, so it couldn't have been an invention supporting him.

I know Grogu can't be the latter.

and i know grogu cant be the former, im autocleared because i shoot grogu tonight

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Hopefully he is enclave.

If he is I'm leaning towards Jack being scum with him, on the basis of lack of interaction. His entrance today kinda pinged me as being too passive and very focused on that plan, or something. My gut didn't like it. Now looking at it to see he didn't mention Jack at all recently, it makes potentially a lot of sense if he's enclave with Jack.

If Urist is scum he's probably Frank Horrigan and just simply doctor'ed the person that they (the enclave) were planning to attack.

However I'm think that's less likely of a case since none of Sprityo/Marmot/Grogu/Jack are seemingly ***not*** protectives. Meaning basically Urist is the only role in the game that can prevent kills other than Frank Horrigan. It would be too weird to not give towns any direct ability to block kills.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:34 pm So if Marmot + Grogu are telling the truth then Grogu is Joshua of....

*drum roll*

The Brotherhood of Steel.

Just lovely.

This makes 5 potential BoS roles or claims btw

Kylemii (Or Epi, whoever was the masonizer) + Urist (not claimed?) + Sprityo + Jack + Grogu.

If Grogu can't be that one AHS-9 role.

Unless Grogu or Marmot are lying somewhere.

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:20 am Has falcon claimed anything? I have reasons to believe he is a baddie

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:26 am because sloonei is lock town

We will see about that tonight. On the other hand falcon is one of the wolves, I know this for a fact u less something very weird happened.
He needs to claim what he did last night. He’s caught

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:29 am

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 amOOOOOO MORE SPICE

Sadly that’s all the spice I got. Your move scum @falcon45ca

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:22 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:27 am

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:23 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:20 am

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:29 am

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 amOOOOOO MORE SPICE

Sadly that’s all the spice I got. Your move scum @falcon45ca

Why don't you look at my pushes this past RD, I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out

grogu is claiming you are 100% guilty, you should just fullclaim.

As far as I can see, Grogu hasn't said I'm 100% guilty of. I'd like to hear what he has to say I'm guilty of first.

What did you do last night. What action did you use on Alison?

(grogu quotes)

So if Marmot + Grogu are telling the truth then Grogu is Joshua of....

*drum roll*

The Brotherhood of Steel.

Just lovely.

Joshua
Additionally, you're a 2-shot limited tracker. Twice during the game during any separate night phases you may select a player. You will be told who that player targeted if anyone. This cannot detect fatal actions.

AHS-9
Separately, you're a 2-shot limited watcher. Twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. You will be told who targeted that player that night if anyone. This cannot detect fatal actions.


These are the only things Grogu could be.

He had mech info on D2, so it couldn't have been an invention supporting him.

On a more serious answer, I hard-claimed with a role that I breadcrumbed from the start of the game. I used that role to confirm Alison as slaver and confirm that Chop Chop was lying.

The only way I'm enclave is if you think I'm the Communications Officer, and that's ignoring most of my play.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:12 pm hey real quick sidebar is there a strong reason to believe martin is town and what was it again

idk

your mason buddy sure seemed to believe I was town for very strong reasons

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:09 pm I ask you marmot to get daisy slot to claim first.
I have a result and know who they targeted but that’s it. I want to hear her claim and result for each night more importantly last night.

Daisy got replaced by Sprityo.

They claimed Brotherhood of Steel as an alignment.

Interesting. So we got Jack + Sprityo + Urist (potentially) + Kylemii as BoS.

There's one scum in there Imo. Maaaybe 2 but I doubt.

I'm eager to hear @Grogu's claim.

If there are 3, again, of course.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:51 pm So basically the last 3 enclave, if there are 3, are

1 of Frank Horrigan
+
2 of
Dr. Schreber
Quincy
Raul

So basically, for limited role-cops:

1-2 [Multiple] roles (Frank + Raul)
+
1 of Dr's [Inventor] or Quincy's [Protective]

Are the true role-types of the enclave that remain I think.

I don't know what "Inventor" counts as. It might be [disruptive] given its random aspect.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:26 pm Also, if LC is being truthful and there's no other Wastelander, and there are 2 of every other town faction, that leaves 3 Enclave left by my math. That said, I don't think we should rely on the fact that there's 2 of every town faction. It would make sense from a balancing perspective, but, there's also reason to believe that it's been somewhat randomized.

Communications Officer (Probably would've found Alison as quick as I did and give Chop the correct info; it doesn't exist prob)
Dr. Charles Curling (Doesn't seem like any poison mechanics are at play in game)
Dr. Schreber
Frank Horrigan (Guaranteed)
President Dick Richardson (Dead)
Quincy
Raul
Sergeant Arch Dornan (No one has lost ability to change vote it would seem)
Vice President Daniel Bird (Dead)

So basically the last 3 enclave, if there are 3, are

1 of Frank Horrigan
+
2 of
Dr. Schreber
Quincy
Raul

TSP doesn't need to claim before others, and I don't see why he should.

Other than that I don't mind claiming alignments then discussing based on that and outting night results. Hopefully before EoD.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:31 pm It may have been randomized, but I think its been randomized across pre-determined "groups" of towns and maybe fine-tuned afterwards for roles.

As far as determining how many players a faction gets. Other than Wastelanders and Enclave obviously.

It may have been randomized, but I think its been randomized across pre-determined "groups" of towns and maybe fine-tuned afterwards for roles.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:26 pm Also, if LC is being truthful and there's no other Wastelander, and there are 2 of every other town faction, that leaves 3 Enclave left by my math. That said, I don't think we should rely on the fact that there's 2 of every town faction. It would make sense from a balancing perspective, but, there's also reason to believe that it's been somewhat randomized.

I don't think I've ever said that there's always two towns per town faction. Just that's the norm it seems.

I have a small suspicion that Seanzie is indeed 100% the only redding to ever exist, and I have a suspicion as to which faction would hold 3 players with my own reasoning. But I don't wish to give help to scum in choosing their claims if they're planning to be part of a 3-player faction.

Urist technically hasn't claimed alignment but he basically has to be BoS.

Grogu has never said anything about his alignment iirc, maybe something about his role or mech info on d2 wrt Falcon & Alison.

Sprityo/Space Daisy I think is the same.

Jack just claimed role + alignment, and so did you.

TSP hasn't claimed either, but that's possibly the only relevant thing about his claim is alignment. Or maybe not. I have no clue about TSP other than I strongly read him as town.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:16 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:14 pm We could just claim alignments before even outing results probably.

If the issue is with limited role checks.

I learn what type of role people have [eg: protective, disruptive, investigative, deceptive, fatal], so alignment claim might help a little, but not much.

Well it helps somewhat, potentially.

If they claim NCR, and you got a "Multiple" check, then they can't possibly NCR anyways given the dead NCR.

If you push them into claiming alignment before revealing check, they have to claim a viable alignment for themselves. Or what they think is a viable alignment claim.

We could just claim alignments before even outing results probably.

If the issue is with limited role checks.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:40 pm I'm not stating who I copped, because then said person could claim a role that would match what I saw.

Does this prevent people from claiming alignments?

Well, actually, I vaguely remember something.

I guess what I mean is that I want full claims just not hiding behind "oh I'll say something after X". It's just getting annoying to hear for me by this point.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:35 pm Do you not know my role Martin?

No I don't.

If you softed it then I probably missed it as I haven't been looking for softs recently for anyone.

Honestly I don't care atm for who's scummier or not.

I kinda just want to murder anybody who doesn't claim before the end of this day phase, as I have my own thoughts to share on the subject after claims and I would hate it if I were hit with a 0-post cap on night 7 and beyond. That includes Sprityo and Grogu who I tend to view as probably townier in Jack/Grogu/Marmot/Sprityo.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:14 pm Also, clearly Sir Galahad is still alive right?

Nah?

I thought that was one of Epi's chosen one skills.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:01 pm Sean’s been towny I guess

You're a Redding?

Aside from him possibly being only redding, I actually agree with that word-for-word

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:37 am

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:54 am I also find it suspect that suddenly Grogu is aware enough of things to trust Mamot's plan for some god-forasken reason.

He was derping earlier and I'm not sure if his level of attention to this game has increased. Granted, there is less stuff happening though.

I don't recall voicing any sort of plan to begin with.

That's part of the point.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:45 pm There were these interaction earlier before today (D6) that looks like not w/w and spews LC as not-teamed imo.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:28 pm

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:06 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:04 pm Ngl my main hesitation in voting Tony is that I feel like I should have a solid read on him and he says I should townread him and I’d be kinda embarrassed to misyeet himnotreal

That’s not a good reason to actually townread him.

He’s doing that because he thinks he’s a good wolf!


If you believe that he’s a wolf and you have lots of information that points towards that you push it.
As long as you point your reasons why, there’s no em brass meant.

Oh, that's rich.

But Tony is pretty suspicious right? I'll [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 10:55 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:25 am @Dom the last ten posts is roughly my impression of the case against me

Yeah, for sure. I was just kidding about my vote for you, just wanted to see how it would travel. [VOTE: chopchop] aubergine I told him I would, and he didn't care. Pretty much out of my hands.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:40 pm

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:39 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:38 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:35 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:32 pm


LC did say this on Day 1.

That was just to try and mess with wolves, maybe draw a nightkill.

I know, my point is that I doubt you're a PR because this does look like cover, and so you're either VT or wolf.

You're not wrong.

Is that a VT Hardclaim or an Open Wolf?

Already said, go back and read. Except I really did.

Like the top and bottom quote feel casual in a way that isn't often w/w imo.

Additionally, I don't think wolves say this about their partner very often, as found in the middle quote:

[VOTE: ChopChop] aubergineI told him I would, and he didn't care. Pretty much out of my hands.

I also had slightly town-read him before Chop Chop's chop.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:05 am Like most reasonable POE is me, LC, Grogu, right?

Any alternative suggestions?

I don't think LC is likely scum.

He had a few interactions with Chop Chop that I felt were rather not w/w. Not absolutely clearing, but for me it was convincing.

I also find it suspect that suddenly Grogu is aware enough of things to trust Mamot's plan for some god-forasken reason.

He was derping earlier and I'm not sure if his level of attention to this game has increased. Granted, there is less stuff happening though.

Fwiw while I do find Jack kinda scummy I want to force the massclaim more.

I dislike the idea of chopping Jack after we forced him to claim but no one else.

@sprityo

Chances are you aren't going to get killed if you claim, as there are players who are widely proven or town-read (such as Me and TSP) that are more likely to be killed imo.

Grogu and Marmot are waiting for you to claim your role apparently, and I would be very interested in hearing their claims per my own mechanical speculation.

If they don't hold that up we can just flash-wagon them.

Alternatively, if you don't claim, we can waste a whole day squabbling about who goes first that when we do its:

a) At a point where more people have died
b) There is less content from various slots about the validity of their claims
c) Puts you at greater risk of be miseliminated if you are town, since the scum's likely plan is to attack on a mechanical level. This also applies to Marmot and Grogu as well, but that fact shouldn't be ignored for yourself.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:38 am i really don't know why they'd janitor epi, what's the benefit to doing that? am i missing something

I'm guessing

1. Frank was likely soon the be killed; I.e. the most optimal time for them to use a Janitor from his role would likely be beyond a point where he's dead.
or
2. They just thought why not.
or
3. They followed in the Host's footsteps when killing partially-secret roles and like hiding secrets.

Or probably some other reason. Not sure if its WIFOM-worthy.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:05 am unless someone wants to doubt kyle I'm good here.

Honestly for me its more of a matter of "I don't care either way they're a town". Unless it maintains a major issue with the Hubologists' existence for Arroyo and vice versa but afaik if we chop Alison here then all of our town-in-fighting should be resolved as much as possible, win-con wise. Unless there's 2 hubologists.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:37 am

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:28 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:24 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:21 am technically jack's claim holds under the same principle though I certainly expect that this doesn't remain the case

Oh yeah, hey. You can’t yeet me cause I’m confirmed town or self resolving or whatever people thought about Chopchop.

rollsafe.jpg

If this is about the whole "there must be at least one BoS" thing, then uhh... no.

I do think it is relatively likely that there are two BoS though (just guessing here, but seems likely considering that their enemies are numerous and strong) so I suppose your (Jack) claim still looks okay, pending other claims.

Ugh, but that means there are more than 2 BoS...

Can someone tell me, is NCR wiped out? I know we know VC was wiped out, are we privy to town factions being killed as well?

I'm almost completely sure that there isn't more than 2 players in a faction other than Wastelanders and Enclave.

Maybe 3 in a single faction but that would be pushing it and I would have some setup/balance considerations for it depending on what faction it is. I do think some town factions are more likely to have 1 or 2 members, and because of that there may be certain other town factions that may be more likely to have 2 or perhaps be a faction with 3 members but I have no direct evidence to think there's 3.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:57 pm I am thinking for order of claims something like:

Jack, Grogu, Spirityo, Martin, TSP, Urist.

Wait, you don't know the mechanical reasons why we chopped chop chop?

Because I full-claimed all my mech info and role for that.

some were just born with radiated bodies

why cant you just accept that