The Syndicate

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:32 pm I'm just really annoyed it turned out in such a humiliating way with nothing we could have done.

Sometimes shit happens...when you hit me with the "you will never get me over" I knew both that you were a wolf and that you were right...without that track.

Thanx Syn for the host!!!

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:08 pm I confess I'm not decided where I want to go next. Nanook was the one after Marmot but he's far from being as obvious as Marmot was.

I am never getting in the way of a Nanook chop this game

"DADV" is what a wolf says when there are two wolves on the block, and the reason Marmot didn't self pres is because Wurzel is the better wolf PR

y'all wolves better kill me cuz I am gonna dust Wurzel tomorrow

nice chop

or they are and he is genuinely afk

Marmot get your shit together

not really

rand hype

Basically Wurz if you aren't a wolf here you certainly should be.

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:46 pm Some serious DADV here

Nahhhh...not with how hard a slog it has been to get your wagon going

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:37 pm I live for the rand

In my last game I lived through a rand...it was super cool and totally changed the direction of the game

@Marmot now would be a really good time for your own self pres vote...and then if you made it worth while by making some time to help solve that would be really great...if this is our first game on the same side I'd appreciate a little team spirit

all the canned meta in the world can't change that you were sussed by the N1K and shielded by a flipped wolf

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:28 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:04 pm

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:59 pm All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

I'm here, just didn't have anything to say to your previous posting.

Guess that means I won the argument then

guess again

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:21 pm Wait maybe I'm changing my mind, I can't decide if I believe wurzel shoots Ender or not as town, if I can't decide it's probably better to leave the slot with content alive for now right? And kill the less readable one who I'll never be able to work around so much

This game is hard lmao

I have faith that at least some afkers will eventually come through...and if they don't we just lose

and I think we need to flip someone that we can read off of the flip

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:59 pm All gone quiet with an hour to go.

I guess Orange isn't showing up

I'm here, just didn't have anything to say to your previous posting.

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:53 pm I was very disappointed that Alison died as I am confident I could have won her round.

LOL...have you ever played with Alison? She doesn't get "won around."

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:49 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:27 pm

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:15 pm Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

Other than this nothing else fit for me seeing 2 vig kills.

Yeah, Syn has used a mafia vig before.

LOL...well that was the wrong button.


Anyway...the wolf we just got, if we had "stuck with the POE" would have survived to win the game because all the genius "tone and meta" readers were full on giving Wiml a pass. The only one pushing Wiml was me, and Wiml was openly taunting that I'd never get him over because he had the whole tone reading crowd snowed under. He carried the N1 kill because he was thought to be above suspicion. Props to Creature for that track.

We need to act on facts here.

Alison was on Wurzel, Alison was town, Alison got killed by wolves.

Wiml shielded Wurzel, Wiml was a wolf.

Those are plain facts, and all the tone reading in the world can't change them.

On the "should we expand the POE when we just hit a wolf" question...I would like to point out that the wolf we hit was

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:15 pm Rather than scum i think wurzel has high equity of being the SK.

Yeah that's a wild ass out of the blue notion with no real reasoning, starting from the assumption that there is a serial killer.

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:13 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:19 pm

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:10 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:25 pm I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

I haven't read Wiml's posts yet, but I'll go look if I have time.

I would be really interested to see what you think as someone who is "neutral" to this argument.

Just for some background info - Tim has been tunnelling me for 2 games in a row now:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Town-Win

In this game, Tim scumread me despite knowing my game fairly well. WIML defended me strongly. I then ended up tunelling Tim back as I felt he was deliberately misreading me and I sniped him at the end of D1. Ironically all 3 of us were town.

I suspect Tim is going to tunnel me in every game going forward. And eventually he will be right to

You need to learn to work your way clear. Step one is to acknowledge the substance of the suss. "Wahhh, I'm being tunneled" is seldom effective. In this case you were hard shielded by a flipped wolf, which allowed you to get off a claimed vig shot on a townie. Sussing that isn't tunneling, it's just calling out the most questionable chain of events in the game.

You were pushing me before WIML flipped and you tunnelled me in our last game. I made my vig shot on N1 and WIML was defending me most heavily on D2 so your sequence of events is incorrect.

I pushed you because Alison scum read you day one, and Wiml stopped her. The only information available was that Alison was the NK, so that's what I worked with. The most likely reason for Alison getting NKed was that she was onto you and Wiml was't going to be able to keep her from flipping you...which would in turn make Wiml's day one shield indefensible.

It's basic wolfing. If I day one white knight somebody as a wolf I don't kill the person that is gonna flip them. I want that person alive so they can flip them and prove I was right.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:00 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:52 pm

Herm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:49 pm Creature laid out Wurzel's claim and logic pretty reasonably earlier.

@falcon45ca

So is Duskfall a wolf, or are you saying the town got two vigs and apparently a protective role that stopped a wolf kill, a cop (already flipped), and a tracker (Creature)?

I am not buying that, so one of the vig claims is a mafia vig.

Which one?

The thing between the two kills is one is based on progression and the other is based on being scum read by the main posters.

One is claimed as a hero shot, the other is a plain POE shot. Admittedly, a plain POE shot is easy for a wolf to make and claim.

The question about Wurzel's progression is whether you think Wurzel is confident enough in his own reads to take a hero shot there.

Herm wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:49 pm Creature laid out Wurzel's claim and logic pretty reasonably earlier.

@falcon45ca

So is Duskfall a wolf, or are you saying the town got two vigs and apparently a protective role that stopped a wolf kill, a cop (already flipped), and a tracker (Creature)?

I am not buying that, so one of the vig claims is a mafia vig.

Which one?

Creature is just town here. The only way he can be a wolf is is the wolves played right from jump to hard bus Wiml with a fake claimed track. If they came up with that play they win, but they didn't so Creature is not a wolf.

I'm just town. While the entire game was full of "but Wiml just makes towny posts" bullshit I was calling him a wolf in his ACTIONS. Playing with people who think that wolves have some moral obligation to not post like town is really tiresome. Read what people do, not their "tone." Anyway, thanks Creature for the redcheck to power the kill, but I already had Wiml locked in so I also am town, unless we go with the wild "it was a bus Wiml play all along" tinfoiling.

Herm is town. Wiml was a roleblocker. Creature tracked him visiting Herm. The end.

If you are town and reading this and you are not listed you are not getting night killed. If you get to F5 can you prove you are town, or should you be killed earlier to make the game easier for town to solve at that point?

sig wrote: ↑Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:14 pm I really just don't see all the remaining mafia being among the low posters/inactive I think you have one mid active player in the bunch given the effort Wiml put into the game.

You can take out Creature, for now, but the lynch didn't really clear anyone else. Though not a fan of their defeatist attitude.

I also really think we need to revisit the mechanic of the two extra shots but legit nobody wants to.

I want to, but no one wants to listen to me. Two town vigs is not realistic. Dusk claimed one vig shot, Wurzel claimed the other. In my opinion today should have been a thunderdome to decide which of them is a town vig and which of them is mafia KP. The choice there is also pretty obvious IMO, but that's beside the point.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:17 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:16 pm I could get behind killing Nanook.

Same, but Marmot is more obvious.

Marmot is coming around in fairly standard Marmot fashion, given his late start from the sub in. He's certainly POE but I'd give him another day over Nanook, and my own favorites.

I could get behind killing Nanook.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:38 pm Don Wurzel is town because mafia 1-shot vig isn't wasted on Ender.

Who is a better shot for the wolves? They want to take a shot that Wurzel can feasibly claim, so it's not like he can shoot the very top town read. Alison was already on him so they had to shoot N1 with minimal info. I don't think this is clearing at all.

well, I'm actually thinking both Wurzel and Nanook are wolfing here creature so with everyone following you we better hope I'm wrong...

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:10 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:25 pm I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

I haven't read Wiml's posts yet, but I'll go look if I have time.

I would be really interested to see what you think as someone who is "neutral" to this argument.

Just for some background info - Tim has been tunnelling me for 2 games in a row now:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... e-Town-Win

In this game, Tim scumread me despite knowing my game fairly well. WIML defended me strongly. I then ended up tunelling Tim back as I felt he was deliberately misreading me and I sniped him at the end of D1. Ironically all 3 of us were town.

I suspect Tim is going to tunnel me in every game going forward. And eventually he will be right to

You need to learn to work your way clear. Step one is to acknowledge the substance of the suss. "Wahhh, I'm being tunneled" is seldom effective. In this case you were hard shielded by a flipped wolf, which allowed you to get off a claimed vig shot on a townie. Sussing that isn't tunneling, it's just calling out the most questionable chain of events in the game.

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:16 pm

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:12 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:09 pm

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:06 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:03 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:45 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:42 pm Let's hope it's a blocker

If it was a blocker that is functionally a red check. That needs to be shared, but take a lesson from Creature yesterday. By holding his cards until the EoD run up he gave Wiml all day to spew his team.

I agree, outing info immediately at the start of the day isn't as useful as holding it for half the day. Especially in this situation where there presumably was a blocked kill and the mafia knows it.

I suppose it's possible there's an afk mafia team that just forgot to submit, though probably not as likely.

What are the rules on this site? I know on MU it selects a townie at random if the wolves don't submit.

It's up to the host usually here, if it is mandatory kills, the host will often state it in the OP/rules.

Thanks. If we think there are 3 wolves left then it is heard to see a team where all 3 wolves slank enough to fail to submit Orange-SIG-Nanook?

I saw @Timsup2nothin say 4 wolves and you say 3 wolves, is there any reason why either of you think this?

Four seems right for a 17er, and one is dead so three is current.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:22 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:57 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:56 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:55 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:56 pm I give up im just gonna sheep

Who are you gonna sheep?

Probably creature

Sheep me

Ok who should I vote

Whoever creature votes

Checks out

Duskfall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:45 pm Falcon
Tim
Dusk
Creature
That's 4/7 for me hopefully the doc claim makes 5 and then 2 more towns for me to find my I think winning Poe

Why Falcon? I lean him town pretty much, but not at a "game solved" level.

On the other hand, don't we have a track on Wiml the mafia roleblocker visiting Herm?

lost monkey wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:48 pm

Herm wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:17 pm Lost D. Monkey maybe scum?

Nah

Strong point, strong rebuttal.

Wiml/Wurzel/Ydrasse/Nanook actually has strong potential as the team.

Ydrasse wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:20 am huh, those are kills.

i actually don't think ender is a bad vigshot all things considered but i don't know if i could really ~see~ what other people saw that was very towny in them. i'm treating it like a vigshot because having a sk too feels off-kilter and i have some soulread on it being a vig or something idk. it fits.

i've softened considerably on my read on tim's slot, and think i'm ready to leave that behind me now.

had an urge to vote orangecrush when i was skimming. just felt like could be a wolf compared to other reads.

however. [VOTE: duskfall] aubergine. cool with this for now, could go for wurz. that's it for now.

Then there's this. I really didn't like how easily votes piled on behind me when I voted you out of the blind. I was suss on Kza over it, but this may be a better hit...especially if Wurzel is a red flip.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:27 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:25 pm I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

i do not find the vig claim in any way towny from wurzel btw

is there a reason why people are assuming im the town if one of us are scum btw, is it just based on shots?

Number one, I think you handled your shot and claim in a very towny way.

Number two, I think Wurzel is a wolf PR because of the way Wiml handled that slot, and the vig claim fits that scenario.

I think y'all are underestimating our host's willingness to give the wolves a vig to balance the town vig. A one shot for them and a one shot for us would not be a big surprise, and I still think Wiml went way too far keeping Wurzel clean through day one for it to just be white knighting on a townie.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:45 pm I am once again asking you to kill ydrasse

This seems a reasonable request, but I am really interested in killing Wurzel.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:42 pm Let's hope it's a blocker

If it was a blocker that is functionally a red check. That needs to be shared, but take a lesson from Creature yesterday. By holding his cards until the EoD run up he gave Wiml all day to spew his team.

If you are a doc and believe you made a successful save, keep that information to yourself. It is great that you can lock clear (probably) your target, but we probably are not going to be trying to chop whoever you saved anyway. Just push somewhere else and hold your mud, no need to snitch yourself out here.

Yeah sweet.

Good play by a doc?

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:22 pm Pretty sure I've harddefended town as wolf before. You're kinda supposed to do it to keep appearances.

There's a point to it, so we do it. What was the point to Wiml hard defending Wurzel if Wurzel was town? Did he need to pocket Wurzel? Why? What does a pocketed Wurzel do for him?

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:40 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:57 pm

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:47 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:15 pm Still don't think Wurzel is wolf here but meh

Wiml had no reason to defend a town Wurzel day one, and no reason to fight my take on Alison's read on Wurzel unless it was right.

There's a balance...Dusk is a one shot town vig, and the wolves have their own extra KP...Wurzel vigged Ender. Wiml D1 defended him so he could get the shot off. Now Wiml is mech busted and Wurzel is hard spewed so may as well try to bluster claim as town vig and throw it off, but X and X2 are gonna hard distance from that shit and probably bus.

That first sentence is utter bollocks and you know it.

If you look at my recent games, I have had a bit of an issue with getting scum read early on before becoming town read later on. WIML has defended me in a number of games. For example, in Wheel of Fortune, which all 3 of us played you can see he defended me at posts #147, #336, #339, #341,#475, #616, #682, #683, #701, #722, #746, #793

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4934139

The one game I played recently without WIML I died on day 1.

So I would be massively suspicious of WIML if he DIDN'T defend me (and that's probably why he did)

No offense, but why would he care if you sussed him? Concern that in the face of all the town reads he otherwise accumulated that you were gonna gather your supporters and come for him with torches and pitchforks?

Maybe he wouldn't care on CFC but you are forgetting that both him and me are new to this server. If a new player said that another new player was scum due to meta, are you suggesting that the rest of the players on here would just ignore that? Especially when the votes were spread quite widely.

Taking the "you are both new here" one step further...as a wolf if you are town he could just soft peddle the read. "Yeah, I think he's town and yeah we've played before." Let you get killed anyway, and play it off as he was never sure either way. Where's the benefit to w!Wiml of a strong white knight play on a t!Wurzel when you are in fact new to the server and not likely to have a lot of influence?

Compare it to his treatment of me. Sure, I was a townread...but always "just because Esooa" and he talked about "taking another look" at least two or three times. He was clearly setting up the eventual flip on the read there. And he was all bravado about how I couldn't put him over. Again, no offense, but if he is ready to challenge me about putting him over do you really think he was gonna kid glove you?

Don Wurzeloni wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:47 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:15 pm Still don't think Wurzel is wolf here but meh

Wiml had no reason to defend a town Wurzel day one, and no reason to fight my take on Alison's read on Wurzel unless it was right.

There's a balance...Dusk is a one shot town vig, and the wolves have their own extra KP...Wurzel vigged Ender. Wiml D1 defended him so he could get the shot off. Now Wiml is mech busted and Wurzel is hard spewed so may as well try to bluster claim as town vig and throw it off, but X and X2 are gonna hard distance from that shit and probably bus.

That first sentence is utter bollocks and you know it.

If you look at my recent games, I have had a bit of an issue with getting scum read early on before becoming town read later on. WIML has defended me in a number of games. For example, in Wheel of Fortune, which all 3 of us played you can see he defended me at posts #147, #336, #339, #341,#475, #616, #682, #683, #701, #722, #746, #793

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost4934139

The one game I played recently without WIML I died on day 1.

So I would be massively suspicious of WIML if he DIDN'T defend me (and that's probably why he did)

No offense, but why would he care if you sussed him? Concern that in the face of all the town reads he otherwise accumulated that you were gonna gather your supporters and come for him with torches and pitchforks?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:36 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:34 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:32 pm

Timsup2nothin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:30 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:15 pm Still don't think Wurzel is wolf here but meh

Wiml had no reason to defend a town Wurzel day one, and no reason to fight my take on Alison's read on Wurzel unless it was right.

There's a balance...Dusk is a one shot town vig, and the wolves have their own extra KP...Wurzel vigged Ender. Wiml D1 defended him so he could get the shot off. Now Wiml is mech busted and Wurzel is hard spewed so may as well try to bluster claim as town vig and throw it off, but X and X2 are gonna hard distance from that shit and probably bus.

Possible, but I'd like to see what Wiml's role ability is, what the visit to Herm was about

I'm kinda betting that it is gonna be clearing on Herm. Wiml was leaning heavy into a Herm push and clearly had no idea he was suss so I don't think he was distancing there.

I assume so as well, but I'd like to know. How balanced is it if the Maf have an extra kill, and have extra role ability? Bear in mind that they did not elect to use any of these extra abilities on the PR claim.

I still contend that there's no particular reason to expect the wolves to believe a Gavial PR claim. But I'm certainly not gonna shield that slot at this point either. Point of fact, I'm not doing much of anything here at this point.

Overnight, read Wiml day one for spew. Look especially for people supporting his "read" on Wurzel without good reasoning. "Yeah okay, Wiml knows Wurzel" type nonsense.

Kill Wurzel, and when he flips red kill anyone who resisted killing him, ever. That should do it, but if not, kill Nanook.