The Syndicate

alright bye

but honestly i can see it being only one of dz/neon or even neither

there’s been too little engagement the past few days for me to have any confidence in my view of the game

my lvl 1 solve is still like dz/neon

wilgy, iawy and porscha have all posted stuff that i’ve thought was villagery at various points itg

dz and neon haven’t really

sup

not gonna be here today really at all

[VOTE: sleep] aubergine

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:21 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:14 pm idk what you’re asking
Is the private W!Wilgy read like the Porscha read for you, but the other way around (trying to convince yourself that he’s mafia, as opposed to trying to convince yourself that Porscha is town)?

not really? my personal read on both is that they’re probably town but i recognize that others don’t share those reads so i’m trying to see the other side

i posted the reasons why i town read porscha so that i could give wilgy (or anyone else) the opportunity to talk to me about it and tell me why they disagree

i posted the stuff about wilgy more so talking to the room and trying to see if i could wrap my brain around a wilgy wolf world / allow people to engage with my thought process one way or another

the goal of both posts is really the same

idk what you’re asking

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 2:08 pm You had a vote that mattered, and you actively chose to do nothing worthwhile with it this whole game, and seem content with thag. You act like it’s an affront that you're potentially going to get chopped without self-reflection and responsibility-taking of your own hand in matters

But we’re the ones in the wrong

don’t waste your time honestly, anyone who has played the way he has doesn’t really care about anyone else in the game except themself

nothing you say is going to get through to him, he doesn’t care

i’m not engaging with rico’s posts, too frustrated with how he’s chosen to play this game honestly

hope he’s a wolf

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:52 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:20 pm yeah i dunno, i could be clearing porscha too easily

i don’t think her posts are amazing but i’ve seen enough villagery flashes still and don’t really see her absence as AI

i skimmed her iso in her last wolf game (anni G3) and her posts this game seem way better?

also, she’s been strongly town read at various points this game by people with more direct experience with her, which i’m inclined to put stock into because it fits my perception that she does seem to have a pretty clear meta gap

idk
It sounds like you’re ending on a townlean at minimum, but it doesn’t feel like that’s where you want to end up either. Kinda like you see all this good stuff but you’re trying to talk yourself into a townread that you don’t currently believe in - to which I ask what specifically is tugging hard enough in the scummy direction to drag Porscha to at least a conflicted null?

i’m conflicted because nobody else seems to share my read and nut, seanzie and maybe michelle too died not town reading porscha

when i have a read nobody else has i get scared i’m wrong

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:13 pm Hally's observation of "players that know Porscha tr the slot" recently also stood out to me as I thought it was mostly contrary to that being true. Seanzie Nut and Michelle all wolf read your slot and are gone.

i was talking about more so around mid game when porscha was posting a lot more consistently

afair she was town read by you, ender, lily, neon, etc

obviously i know that hasn’t lasted because she’s dropped off but there was definitely a point where she was regarded as being hard in her town meta, and when i look at her recent wolf game it’s easy to see why because her posting is a lot better here imo

oh, yeah EoD was extended i guess

alrighty

not gonna be around for EoD probably

the way the wagons are now ricochet can self pres to wilgy and force a rand, which means if wilgy is town rico could get to lylo with virtually zero content the entire game

i’m not as sure on wilgy being town as i was yesterday but i still wouldn’t lunch him today

but w/e i guess, glgl lol

hope everyone is having a merry christmas if you celebrate

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:18 pm
Ricochet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 4:11 pm Perhaps, you'd be interested in a little scheme of mine? It will produce the finest of puppets. Which I aspire to cherish with these very hands.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

VC? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Strong energy in this post. Very hard to decline.
I will toast and offer to your scheme this vote of mine.

dumb read but this post doesn’t feel w/w

then there’s a lot of posts where vivax says how much he likes rico’s gimmick and would be sad to lunch him because he’ll miss it, which also feel kinda weird to post about a teammate

Vivax wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:55 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:37 pm I could yeet Rico, generally.

Neon’s just most obviously wolfy player.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:39 pm Rico not really jokey enough to be an NPC. Ergo town or wolf. Leaning wolf but like it’s not that strong.
Neon mostly looks like a guillo analogon, probs openwolfing with all the shenanigans. Becomes yeetable for me past this day, not before as it's a possible NPC. The entire Ender-Neon whirlwind just appears to be a whole bunch of noise if the Neon (soft-)CC was bogus.
Rico I sympathize with but every time they post it feels like they're meant to be talking to me and that suggests they're tip-toeing around me perceiving them. Yeetable, with regret, cause I'd miss the classiness of the posting. No gimmicking freepasses at this point however.

the bolded feels w/w though

it’s hyper conscious of rico’s posting and their interactions with each other

feels like rico was on vivax’s mind more than he should have been if they’re w/v and rico was just some random slanker to him

so idk it’s a mixed bag, not really sure what to do with any of it but it caught my eye

vivax’ posts at wilgy:

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:23 pm I‘ll sheep nutella, seems to be the most informed in certain aspects and she’s coming in swinging I like that. Can understand Santy‘s frustration but he‘ll come around (going for a townread atm). Or maybe skill issue.

Only partially unlocked/witnessed three abilities so far el oh el. Maybe four.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:52 pm Wilgy not licking anyone is off the known meta.
Worst case he‘s NPC. But I‘d wager many of those try to appear like they are not.

I‘m comfy just following the votes either of RANMILLA, nutsella or Santygass around for now.

Struggling with lateral encephalitis atm so my posting seems willy wonky probably.

Vivax wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:50 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:24 pm
katze wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:00 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:59 pm I was about to place an enjoyable vote for katze, but I realized I would have to find the tally. Maybe next time.
theres nerds with a script now so u dont actually need to find the tally yourself
what's all this then?

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Vivax wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:56 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Dec 10, 2022 5:27 pm Naw. Policy wins games. Gotta hold people to some standard. If you reward people for having an antitown meta, that just makes them more likely to be antitown in future games and makes it harder to sort them when they are actually a wolf.

Check SCI which I linked a bit ago, we spent the first three days policying people who all flipped town, then destroyed the wolves when they had no one to hide behind. (This is not a completely accurate summary of the game, but the policy part worked out).

The better question is - why NOT Wilgy? There certainly are other good votes, but why is the Wilgy push getting so much resistance?
Cause throwaway voting is a thing for NPCs and Wilgy could be scum.
I like nutella‘s vibes and decided to sheep (plus there‘s literally an elephant in the snake terrarium here).
You make good points here but I didn‘t read the other games you listed yet.

Was banking on D3 solving because it‘s the obvious thing to do and I‘d rather chill out with the local homies tonight than having to do wizardry within one hour from a phone.

If I had to guess current players off memory it‘d be you, nut, Wilgy, Ender, santy, Hally.

Of which Wilgy gave off the sneakiest vibes (and he skirts around having a read on me)
Maybe ender too.

idk maybe this is a bus, fuck if i know

wilgy was getting a lot of heat at the time and ran was pushing him hard, maybe vivax locked himself into sheeping ran and then didn’t feel like he had a believable way off wilgy when ran and himself were the counter wagons

it’s possible at least

i’ve been privately entertaining that wilgy is a wolf who i’ve been town reading because he’s been using his TMI to post mostly correct stuff while so many people this game have had ??? reads

but even ignoring his posts there’s still stuff that makes me think he’s town

vivax pushed him and voted him easily when he was the cw to ran and had a real chance of dying

also, he had a crucial vote on vivax’s wagon to build it back up and idt vivax goes over without it

Porscha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 6:01 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:53 pm how can anyone come into this day voting wilgy and asking why people want to kill rico

you have the game turned upside down lol
Asking why rico was not remotely close to a defense and I'm open to him being a wolf, just like I am with wilgy lol

I wanted to know if the sole reason for the vote was his gimmick

Cuz if I'm working off my previous theory that not every wolf is dead weight low posting like schia due to gamestate then like ... meh? But also would be easier and lolzy answer that schia and rico both slank wolfing and vivax lucky catch early for town ? Is there 1 or 2 wolves left

remind me why you think the gamestate points to the remaining wolves not being slankers?

and what makes you wolf read wilgy?

porscha has pretty similar posts responding to the pressure on her that game

so i don’t really think the AtE is wolfy for her

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:39 pm On MU the button for Multi ISO and filtering to Neon is how that works to get in game posts from the game thread?

yeah

also porscha was town that game and got mislunched D1 if you wanna skim that too

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:35 pm I suppose you are correct.

When Neon and I were teammates, Neon had no issues making posts indicative of frustration. Suppose that can be NAI...

But then where's Neon's goal here? W Neon was VERY objective oriented in Hot Fuzz.

i dunno, questions like this are hard to answer without knowing the other wolf

for example, if w!neon’s teammates are schia and rico, i kinda doubt that she (or any wolf really) would be happy about having to carry their deadweight so i don’t imagine she’d be trying very hard to win

also, regardless of neon’s alignment i think she’s telling the truth that she didn’t know what she was signing up for and has been overwhelmed/frustrated by the size of this game, which would affect her WIM

but i mean, i agree that she hasn’t seemed very objective oriented at least lately, she’s kinda just there

so who knows

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ions-of-Te

oops

from a skim she has a ton of indignation and frustration posts that seem pretty much identical to this game

not to say it’s wolfy, i think it’s probably NAI but it’s clearly within her wolf range afaict

here’s a wolf game from neon

she endgamed with 800 posts against a stacked playerlist that had experience with her and was widely town read the entire game

clearing her for “genuine sounding frustration” is a mistake imo

yeah i dunno, i could be clearing porscha too easily

i don’t think her posts are amazing but i’ve seen enough villagery flashes still and don’t really see her absence as AI

i skimmed her iso in her last wolf game (anni G3) and her posts this game seem way better?

also, she’s been strongly town read at various points this game by people with more direct experience with her, which i’m inclined to put stock into because it fits my perception that she does seem to have a pretty clear meta gap

idk

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:50 pm I've caught up. Here's some thinks:

@DeeZees: This is the slot I've decided that I'm most scared of being wrong about. I've seen the arguments that the Vivax interactions were heavy handed then fell off, but I also see that there was some legitimate momentum gain towards a potential Vivax yeet when Deezees voted that I think makes them not W/W

@DrWilgy: Beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. Wonderful thing. Deserves some hugs and cheese cake.

@Hally: I still TR. Reviewed the Falcon EoD and find that Hally having to choose between Nutella and Falcon would've had me doing the same thing I think.

@ilario: Cleared by lack of CC. Wish we had more involvement from the slot beyond that, but we take what we can get I suppose.

@Inawordyes: I mostly TR. I find myself agreeing with most lines of thinking. At first I had felt that there was an obscure lack of conclusions being drawn in spite of the thoughts and questions put out there, but after catching up and seeing some ends i.e. the thoughts on Neon and Hally, I read this as a mostly T voice.

@Neon: I want to SR but I think I don't. I find myself in agreement with iawy's take. Neon's persistence and frustration feels real, but also I don't see Neon playing to a game winning objective.

@Porscha: The way Porscha has come gunz blazing at me after most of my town core has been yeeted feels calculated. I agree with Neon that the AtE didn't make me feel good about the slot but I think now that the push on me makes for an easy way to yeet mostly town voices and get Porscha back in the game after being away for most of it.

@Ricochet: I agree with Hally that the wallpost shouldn't be town read. Feels very much manipulative to have that post and hold it until the npc's are gone. It's also not like any other slot who at least contributed in minor pre purge.

so from this, your two wolves would be rico and porscha?

hrmph

honestly rico’s posts today are more so just not villagery as opposed to wolfy

or maybe they are actually wolfy

or maybe i’m just telling myself that because i don’t want him to flip town

i dunno

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:49 am
Hally wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:42 am
ilario wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:31 am true, i liked the part where he showed me voting both wolves.

any idea on who his teammate would be? any lock towns u have?
my guess is dz would be the other wolf? i could see dz telling rico to push him so they can argue itt and he can maybe get spewed clear

idk what other option a rico/dz team has really

i’ve been pushing neon quite a bit for wolfsiding and general lack of villageriness but i’m worried a lot of my issues with her are just playstyle clash, but maybe you have a better read there

wilgy/iawy/porscha i wouldn’t lunch pending a reread of their iso’s
yeah i could probably read her if it comes to it, for now im fine with going the rico route. your points there seem valid and you seem fine to me when we realtime and this game is probably unwinnable fmpov given my current involvement anyways if ur a wolf so the logical move is to just trust that you seem towny enough and im happy to chop into whichever slot is your biggest priority

to be clear, my vote on ricochet is like 99% policy/PoE/whatever you wanna call it because he’s made his slot unclearable by not playing the game for 7 days straight

then 1% because i think his posts today are kinda wolfy

it’s not spicy lol

DeeZees wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:02 am Also screw it the main problem against me is that i didnt continue pushing vivax.

I posted against vivax as much as my general posting would allow

honestly i think the main point against you at least for me is that you’ve done literally nothing else, which makes me not want to give you any cred for pushing vivax

DeeZees wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:59 am @Hally im town

cool, now show it

Ricochet wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:37 am
Hally wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:26 am solving based solely on spew and interactions while making no effort to read people based on holistic posting is a classic wolf move

faking holistic reads is hard, talking about spew and interactions is easy
Why shut your doors to me? Am I barred from donning the crown of stone?

I'll shed no tears to you finding out what a "classic wolf" I am, but if you prefer the 4v2 stress next Day over the current 6v2 cushion, proceed at will.

alright, thanks for the green light

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:31 am true, i liked the part where he showed me voting both wolves.

any idea on who his teammate would be? any lock towns u have?

my guess is dz would be the other wolf? i could see dz telling rico to push him so they can argue itt and he can maybe get spewed clear

idk what other option a rico/dz team has really

i’ve been pushing neon quite a bit for wolfsiding and general lack of villageriness but i’m worried a lot of my issues with her are just playstyle clash, but maybe you have a better read there

wilgy/iawy/porscha i wouldn’t lunch pending a reread of their iso’s

idk maybe i just hope he’s not a villager

but hey, if he is at least we can blame him for the loss lol

it reads more like a wolf that just wants to post something so he can be seen as having done something, and now he’s back to doing nothing instead of engaging with anything else and trying to develop his reads more

idk why a villager who has put zero effort into the game would want to write a huge wall with so much unnecessary stuff in it

like, suddenly he cares about putting in all that effort, except only for that single post, and now he’s just back to gimmicking?

lol

solving based solely on spew and interactions while making no effort to read people based on holistic posting is a classic wolf move

faking holistic reads is hard, talking about spew and interactions is easy

ilario wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 2:13 am
Hally wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:03 am nobody should be town reading that wall
why?

why would you?

it’s a ton of information instead of analysis and the analysis that’s there is a lot of rehashing of what other’s have already said. there’s nothing that’s really interesting or difficult for a wolf to post. generally, talking about interactions and spew is the easiest thing for a wolf to do because they can just say things that are true most of the time.

and more obviously, one wall of solving the entire game as soon as his NPC cover was blown and he can’t skate by anymore is not villagery

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:06 am
Hally wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:37 pm
Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:22 pm Schia was obvious mafia for so long and the fact that it took two days for anybody to even consider voting there despite multiple people acknowledging it is maddening, but they're gone now and today isn't a waste of a day
genuine question: why is it maddening?

would anything be different about the game if we had lunched schia days ago compared to last day or even today?

schia left no spew, nobody can really be cleared for pushing them, they didn’t vote or attempt to influence the game in any way, and the wolves knew they would be outed for days

for all intents and purposes schia did not exist in this game, they were a free pelt we could get any time we felt like wasting a day on it

it wouldn’t have made any difference whether we killed them D1 or waited until F3
it's maddening for me because I saw it plain as day forever ago and nobody would do anything about it and kept making excuses to push elsewhere. And also slightly compounding that madness is that I finally gave up on the idea of tunneling into a Schia chop mid-day yesterday - and the moment I did, everybody decided that was when they'd have the epiphany that they'd need to vote Schia out and jumped on the wagon - so there's a bit of residual salt that I'm grumpy about

Having the mindset that Schia was an easy vote that could be taken out any time is exactly how mafia keeps mischops alive to endgame. If someone is so obvious, you take them out now so that if they aren't mafia, you don't take them out as the easy vote in LYLO and lose the game. So it would've made a massive difference, and consider if we had left Schia alive and now had to deal with Schia and Rico in the same exact thread boat today? Now we only have to deal with one, and we got a mafia out of the game too

That's my thoughts on it, Schia is dead and that = good, so the game continues on

i mean, schia was never gonna be a lylo mislunch, they were always either an NPC or a wolf and everybody knew it

gj on the read though

nobody should be town reading that wall

to me it reads as genuine paranoia/panic from someone who doesn’t have the answers and has no idea who the wolves are

that’s the only somewhat new thought i have

oh, and i guess if anyone looks good from schia flipping it’s iawy but i’m hesitant to give anyone any cred for pushing schia because again, wolves knew they would always be outed eventually so hard bussing is a fine play

alright, cya

by upside down i mean that i don’t think it would occur to a wolf with TMI to post those things unless they’re pretty crafty and porscha isn’t a crafty wolf afaik

to expand on why i said porscha wasn’t a wolf at the deadline, i don’t think a wolf makes these posts at EoD:

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:47 pm So like I'm a page behind I'll keep reading but in case I dont have time, I like... I have a couple thotties

I fear schia is in fact not a wolf as she has been voted off for similar posting in another game, but according to lumi if schia is NPC it doesnt hurt to vote anyway. So I'm willing...

But thought number 2 is uh... why is everybody TR wilgy? Lol

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:50 pm Like it's possible he is town and I would need to ISO on comp later but it seems there has been literally no conceptions he may not be town but from the posts I've seen from him... idk.... he could be wolfing lol

I responded to one of wilgy posts where he was talking with falcon earlier in the game and told wilgy "sorry for the rand" but he didnt respond to it I dont think lol but I was kind of not entirely joking when I said it lmfaoo

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:51 pm If we are looking at the world with pre-npc-extinction world event lenses then like
We've discussed who possible wolves could be especially if we profile schia as wolf. Not all the wolves can be low posters right? Someone(s) are skating by and I think wilgy is good enough to fool most people up until now tbh

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:52 pm Idk. Just saying. Especially in case I get NK'd for some unseeable reason

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:57 pm
Manny wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:53 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:52 pm Also why was like all of @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME day 1 iso about Michelle being wolf? Lol
if you take his words as truth he is an npc just trying to solve a bit per day and ig his bit of solving d1 was mich = wolf
Ye but I wanted to know why, tho it appears it is too late to find out for our dear NPC nook

I've played a fair amount of games with Michelle and never seen her wolf to my knowledge and so many ppl have claimed shes relatively polarized but I've been able to *see* it so every game I play with michelle everybody just says they have good reads on her, I sheep them, she never flips w, I never LEARN ANYTHING AND NOW I HAVE PARANOIA sorry michelle that's why I voted you earlier idk what I'm doing

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:58 pm S'pose I should vote for schia here eh

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 8:00 pm I'm a bit nervous just cuz of my previous experience but I have no brain cells atm and lumi said is mech correct to vote her so I have

especially combined with her entrance today, this stuff is just too upside down to come from a wolf imo

how can anyone come into this day voting wilgy and asking why people want to kill rico

you have the game turned upside down lol

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:52 pm Hally why rico

I have placed vote on wilgy as of this post btw

wdym, why rico?

you’re asking me why i’m voting the guy that has been skating by larping as an NPC making five posts a day the entire game?

isn’t it obvious lol

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:29 pm @Hally Where's your head at?

the same place it was at last day pretty much

i’m just gonna kill rico and see what he flips then hope i die so i don’t have to care what happens next

idk why people sign up for games to do what schia and rico have done

if you’re busy and can only do a little bit that’s fine but to not even attempt to do anything is unfair to the players in the game who signed up to play it

doesn’t matter if you’re a villager or a wolf, don’t waste people’s time like this

Inawordyes wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:22 pm Schia was obvious mafia for so long and the fact that it took two days for anybody to even consider voting there despite multiple people acknowledging it is maddening, but they're gone now and today isn't a waste of a day

genuine question: why is it maddening?

would anything be different about the game if we had lunched schia days ago compared to last day or even today?

schia left no spew, nobody can really be cleared for pushing them, they didn’t vote or attempt to influence the game in any way, and the wolves knew they would be outed for days

for all intents and purposes schia did not exist in this game, they were a free pelt we could get any time we felt like wasting a day on it

it wouldn’t have made any difference whether we killed them D1 or waited until F3

was a pleasure playing with you again michelle

[VOTE: ricochet] aubergine

gonna lol if schia flips town

don’t think porscha is a wolf still

i wouldn’t kill michelle, wilgy or iawy for a while

dunno beyond that

i’m here, don’t have anything to add though

glgl

ilario wrote: ↑Thu Dec 22, 2022 3:55 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 7:58 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:27 am
Vivax wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:32 pm [VOTE: DeeZees] aubergine

Guy sitting to my left literally started meowing yesterday.
He never meowed before.
Maybe cause of who was sitting in front of him, or cause I was contaminating his head. Or someone else perhaps.

Either way, ignorance is bliss and bliss sucks
That's after Zeus votes Vivax probably.

Letting it here until I find more AI evidence
This one Ilario
i see what u mean @Michelle @Hally

i can perhaps see that being theatre. idk its hard for me to say much going through his iso because i lack context of who and what his posts are about. they dont really scream out villager to be but also its hard for me to say if that makes him wolf. i dont like him saying the vivax thing is clearing for him because hes a filthy busser quite often. since i lack a lot of context behind his posts, i would probs just read him off poe, if you believe everyone else is townier then i dont have any strong objections against him being in the poe

alright, thanks

Search found 602 matches