The Syndicate

thanks jay for hosting, the lecture idea was super fun and unique

hype! ggwp all

was super fun, wish i got to play longer

i think i stand by my list that i posted earlier

vig kza, glgl

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:44 pm If people are very confused and put off by my posts, please ask for clarification. I don't think my takes are that extraordinary that they can just be hand waved or called trolling or crazy. I'm happy to expand. It is true however that I lack a lot of context. But I don't think that means I can't have lucid takes from the parts I have read and just the fact of existing in this game and interacting with some/most of you.

i wasn’t meaning to say you’re not trying to give lucid takes

more that stuff like “GAVIAL IS HARD TOWN” and “we shouldn’t kill gav if he’s mafia, let’s kill a villager instead” were not like... things you were seriously saying or advocating for, at least fmpov but more so things you wanted to be provocative about

but i don’t think that applies to ALL your posts or that you aren’t trying to play the game (because you obviously are regardless of alignment), i was simply trying to explain the more head scratcher moments fmpov of knowing what you’re like

but if my characterization is off, correct me

or gth rather

also i’m almost out of posts i think

kinda wild because i feel like i’ve hardly posted anything

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:25 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:03 pm dizzy is mostly trolling/playing up his contrarianism to stir reactions and amuse himself

there’s some nuggets of seriousness in what he’s saying but he probably hasn’t read most of the thread and is just making a scene because it’s fun

i don’t really know why people are reacting to him as though he’s presenting fully serious, lucid and informed takes on the game
I'm actually trying at least a little bit with what I have.

What takes of mine do you find be not lucid?

well i know you’re not actually advocating for lunching someone you think is a villager even if in theory you think it would be better

and i think your takes on gavial and kza weren’t fully informed (you hadn’t read gav’s latest posts when you were more sure he was a wolf and it sounds like you haven’t read any of kza’s and are just taking a stance based on what you saw some people say at some point)

but i do believe that regardless of your alignment you’re trying to give takes with whatever you’ve read

i also think there’s an element of trolling and non-seriousness though

and gtg i think you’re a villager

i get why you would be confused at him if you think he’s being serious

what i’m saying is it’s kind of obvious he isn’t (or at least not fully)

so do with that information what you want

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:11 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:03 pm dizzy is mostly trolling/playing up his contrarianism to stir reactions and amuse himself

there’s some nuggets of seriousness in what he’s saying but he probably hasn’t read most of the thread and is just making a scene because it’s fun

i don’t really know why people are reacting to him as though he’s presenting fully serious, lucid and informed takes on the game
you don't know why people are confused at someone - that has a reputation as a strong player afaik - who is making bizarre posts? really?

i think it’s kind of obvious he hasn’t read and is not being fully serious but i also know him extremely well so my perspective on it is different

sunbae wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:07 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:03 pm dizzy is mostly trolling/playing up his contrarianism to stir reactions and amuse himself

there’s some nuggets of seriousness in what he’s saying but he probably hasn’t read most of the thread and is just making a scene because it’s fun

i don’t really know why people are reacting to him as though he’s presenting fully serious, lucid and informed takes on the game
this is the post i write when im a wolf trying to figure out why a good townie is saying weird stuff

cool

well i know dizzy and what his personality is like better than anyone so i’m trying to help people make sense of what he’s saying

i understand why his posts make no sense if you don’t know him though

but he’s probably a villager or is at least imitating a style that he’s used before as villager

dizzy is mostly trolling/playing up his contrarianism to stir reactions and amuse himself

there’s some nuggets of seriousness in what he’s saying but he probably hasn’t read most of the thread and is just making a scene because it’s fun

i don’t really know why people are reacting to him as though he’s presenting fully serious, lucid and informed takes on the game

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:46 pm im like at 70-30 confidence that gavial is a wolf when i was far closer to 90-10 24 hours ago

could be a villager because of the flippancy of his most recent posting and his insistence on being chopped, but there's nothing that moves the needle to the extent that i feel comfortable defending him or even suggesting that we go outside

shrug

this is where i’m at, yeah

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:47 pm
Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:45 pmyours
theirs

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:39 pm
Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:37 pm I'm not like 100 percent lock on Seth to be town

just to be clear

like I do think that Seth is closer to his town game but not like 100 percent centrally townSeth

Spoiler: show
mostly I'm just scared that I'll get people to flip off of him and then he'll turn out to be a wolf

Wait how? Did he do a solve or something?
him tunnelling me for being a "good wolf" (which I'm not, but I know the games he's working off of and don't think it's a ridiculous thing for him to believe) while blatantly not reading any of my posts felt like what I expect from Seth as town

has he tunneled you? iirc he’s made like two posts about you

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:48 pm my current feeling about dizzy is that the majority of his posts in this game do not make very much sense to me. his perspective feels "off" and i think that it's dangerous for me to townread him based on the assumption that he would ~try~ to be townier as a wolf. i don't have any reasons to townread him that don't effectively boil down to WIFOM and conjecture, so it's not a townread that i stand by

(and yeah, it was weird that he said he no longer cared about whether or not we chop gavial since he was wolfreading gavial more, when his original reasoning for not chopping gavial had ~nothing~ to do with his own personal read on gavial. he was arguing that gavial was a bad chop even if he WAS mafia, so it doesn't make sense to me why dizzy changed his perspective on gavial upon finding him wolfier)

also, i'm trying to preserve my postcount, so if anyone has any questions/takes they wanna hear from me, ask me and ill respond whenever i post next

i don’t think dizzy actually believed we shouldn’t lunch gav even if he’s a wolf

if he’s a villager he probably just saw people settling on lhf and wanted to throw a molotov cocktail into the thread by being contrarian and loudly defending gav

v!dizzy often adopts the role of bomb thrower to stir stuff up particularly when he doesn’t have time to really hunker down and play normally, and his treatment of gavial feels more like that than a genuine stance he held

it’s possible he’s a wolf still i guess (i’ve actually only seen him wolf once recently, though i know he’s randed wolf a lot lately on mafc) but his posts aren’t outside the realm of how he sometimes plays as a villager

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:45 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:44 pm
bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:33 pm i retract my townread on dyslexicon
I thought it was weird they retracted their defense of gavial and called him scum

i squinted at that too but i don’t really get why he does it as a wolf

it doesn’t really make sense as w/w to go in hard defending a teammate that you know is going to be caught easily only to then limply wolf read them after they’re pretty much already dead

i could see it more as w/v though, i dunno

i think dizzy’s play this game is generally pretty bizarre
w/v in which direction?

either one i guess

could be w!dizzy white knighting v!gav for the lols and then going “ok, guess i’ll just mislunch him” when gav rolls over

or it could be v!dizzy white knighting w!gav to be contrarian and keep the thread from getting stale and then realizing that gav is probably just a wolf after he’s read more

the latter option seems more likely and is something i could see v!dizzy doing regardless of gavial’s alignment really

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:39 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:31 pmi'm really trying not to be too stubborn on dya and want to see them get more into things d2 but i just can't bring myself to feel good about any of their posts
how much experience do you have with dya? i thought they had a questionable start but taken on the whole I don't think their d1 would be particularly unusual from them as town

i agree with this too

i don’t think they’re necessarily out of wolf range but i wouldn’t be surprised if they’re a villager here

they tend to start slow as a villager ime but i think they’ve been gaining steam steadily

bronana wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:33 pm i retract my townread on dyslexicon
I thought it was weird they retracted their defense of gavial and called him scum

i squinted at that too but i don’t really get why he does it as a wolf

it doesn’t really make sense as w/w to go in hard defending a teammate that you know is going to be caught easily only to then limply wolf read them after they’re pretty much already dead

i could see it more as w/v though, i dunno

i think dizzy’s play this game is generally pretty bizarre

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:33 pm i retract my townread on dyslexicon

interesting

when he got that initial flurry of v reads i felt like people were clearing him too easily for stuff he could say as a wolf but then as he posted more and kept getting v read i was like “he’s probably fine actually”

he was the name i paused over the most when i was making my list and i couldn’t decide whether to put him in the second tier or the one below it

i think people are underestimating his range but he could still be a villager particularly if gavial is a wolf because his treatment of gav is bizarre as w/w imo

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:25 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:49 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:34 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:23 am Wait vulgard, how did you only quote the posts where I didn't explain and none of the posts where I did?

I think both alison and gav are independently wolfy. I think if alison is a wolf, gav is probably villa because of the whiteknighting that she's kind of sort of doing

I'm not really sure why that's hard to understand?

and nutella why would my "wolf agenda" ever be pushing alison when I know she's a hard elim to make happen?
maybe because you think it looks good, even if you can't stop gav from going over you have tried to push an original suspect

I see you've moved your vote to gav since, but the length of time your vote was parked on alison while you danced around a gav suspicion was concerning to me

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 8:51 am it's really getting old that people think they should dictate how I play the game. I play on my own terms with my own style. I guess if you don't like it, that's tough for you
????

who is doing that
you did to a degree when you bitched about me wasting posts and how anxiety inducing that was.

I moved to gavial because the more he posts the more i think he's a wolf. I think there's a world where alison is a wolf and gav is villa though

alison's posts have really skeeved me out and I'm sorry that's apparently a problem for you
dya's town actually

i had that thought around this time but stopped myself from saying it because of the FEAR

Amy wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:24 pm actually i changed my mind i'm opposed to killing kza solely on the grounds of "we should rly just kill gav"

Spoiler: show

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:10 pm im starting to townread hally but it's for the overly elaborate 4d chess reason that i dont feel like theyre trying to towntell or get people to townread them. they feel somewhat detached from the game and their posts don't feel cloying or focused on how they're getting perceived - gth i would lean on this coming from hally as a villager

this is indeed the correct reason to v read me

[VOTE: kza] aubergine

Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:10 pm i mean, i’m more laidback than usual. i’m just taking the game as it comes and not trying to force myself to have a read on everyone D1

if kza and gavial are wolves what i’m doing seems to be working pretty well so i don’t really feel like i have to try harder atm, shrug

inb4 they’re villagers and i look like an idiot for making this post

i mean, i’m more laidback than usual. i’m just taking the game as it comes and not trying to force myself to have a read on everyone D1

if kza and gavial are wolves what i’m doing seems to be working pretty well so i don’t really feel like i have to try harder atm, shrug

dyachei wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 3:02 pm why do you feel so weird to me hally?

dunno

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:55 pm
KZA wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 11:45 pm SPF saying "this is a wolf" at this stage feels pretty good and similar to how she did it in Fargo as town

Personally I have 0 confidence in reading Gavial tho
oh, since zack quoted it, it's worth mentioning that this post makes zero sense to me and feels more like TMI than anything

KZA saw me as a wolf in CoV. they say me say "this is a wolf" at multiple times throughout the game, in the same way that i did in fargo mafia. i find it odd that they draw on their experience from fargo mafia without factoring in their experience from CoV - it felt like a Fake Read

i thought the same thing when i iso’d him earlier and dropped my mini-case on him

he’s probably just a wolf. his entire iso sucks and isn’t anything like his posting in CoV or fargo (i checked)

no need to belabor it really

Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:53 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:45 pm @Marluxion i’m gonna bite the bullet

why do you wolf read me?
i actually dont remember specifically why
it was one of my first thoughts into the game and it just hasn't changed

i could probably reiso myself or you and figure it out but it's very similar to the past two games i've not townread you when you're town

if you are actually village this read will probably change a ton back and forth if i end up doubting my initial read

fair enough

@Marluxion i’m gonna bite the bullet

why do you wolf read me?

@bronana i explained it here:

Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:15 pm
Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:38 am page 13 especially gives me extreme wolves-trying-to-look-towny vibes
the way the entire poe turned on each other rather than outward makes me feel like our PoE is either mostly correct or completely wrong

Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:45 am it's mostly the vibes i get from hally and alison on that page
they control like 60% of the page's posts and they dont really interact at all

also the second bit
dya is on alison
galvial is on dya
tan and arete crossvoting
hally pushing seth

it justs feels like most of the poe is attacking the poe, whereas i'd expect the stronger villagers in the poe to have a significantly different perspective but that doesn't seem to be the case
whether it's w/w or wolves attacking the lhf in the poe i'm not sure yet
stuff like this gave me v!marl vibes

i think as a wolf he tends to play more straightforwardly and doesn’t usually have these pepe silvia theories about the gamestate as a whole

i can see the gears turning here, so to speak

up to this point i wasn’t completely sold on marl v even though i was leaning that way but with his recent posting i’m gonna say he’s probably a villager

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:18 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 2:15 pm i think there’s a nonzero chance gavial flips villager here but i really can’t deal with this for another day phase so i’m choosing to not care
what do your reads look like outside of gavial, generally?

good question, i don’t really know

nutella
vulgard
arete
marl

^ these should all be villagers

sunbae
amy
spf
dizzy

^ i have positive feelings about these but wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a wolf playing well here given the names

c4
zack
visor
alison
dya
tangy

^ i don’t really have a concrete read on these so i assume a couple of them are wolves

kza

^ he’s probably just a wolf

as you can tell i don’t really have a firm handle on the game

i think there’s a nonzero chance gavial flips villager here but i really can’t deal with this for another day phase so i’m choosing to not care

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:55 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:49 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:45 pm afaict nobody has a concrete read on zack unless i missed something

i dunno if this means anything, it’s just not what i would expect given who he is and this player list
cross-posting this with vulgard typing up a giant wall about how he has no concrete read on zack is kind of hilarious
About that.

Does he tend to be an easy read? You sound like you speak from experience.

i don’t have that much experience with him but i would say it depends on the game

he’s a good wolf if that’s what you’re asking, but i’ve never really seen his wolf game aside from reading them after the fact. in the recent games i’ve seen him village he was

- shot N1 after being widely v read (voxx 9er)

- shot N2 after being widely v read (rocks fall)

- mislunched in F3 and not really v read because of paranoia and having an off game (mountain climbing)

Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:45 pm afaict nobody has a concrete read on zack unless i missed something

i dunno if this means anything, it’s just not what i would expect given who he is and this player list

cross-posting this with vulgard typing up a giant wall about how he has no concrete read on zack is kind of hilarious

afaict nobody has a concrete read on zack unless i missed something

i dunno if this means anything, it’s just not what i would expect given who he is and this player list

Tangrowth wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:07 pm I don't have time to elaborate much, unfortunately, but I'd be happy to engage with anyone about reads upon my return... whenever that'll be. I'm hoping an hour before EoD at the absolute latest but I just don't know. There's a chance I miss it, but I'd really hate to do that.

I ranked players within tiers as thoughtfully as I could with limited time. Some words off the top of my head... just going to trust spf right now, we're mindmelding, she seems legit. dya feels right to me, I want to see what they can do going forward. I need to actually interact with Dizzy at some point to make sure. sunbae I still have some misgivings on but I think he looked a lot better after I got to witness his gears turning in real time. Alison is the one I'm most torn on but for some reason I just believe her.

The reads below that I'm having a lot more trouble sorting. I'm seeing what I want to see with Zack, but I'm increasingly concerned that... it's by the numbers or something? I still think he's probably town but I couldn't keep him up there for some reason... really running out of time, gotta stop here I guess.

Strong town
nutella
spf

Moderate town
dya
Dizzy
sunbae
Alison

Upper POE - light town
Zack (bronana)
Vulgard
c4
Visor (outed wolf)
Marluxion
Amy
KZA

Lower POE
Arete
Hally
Gavial

i’m confused how you think kza is more villagery than me or arete

can you explain?

@Alison whats your read on zack atm?

unless i missed it i don’t think you’ve said anything about him since early D1 when you voted him

KZA wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:24 pm hot(?) take is that Gavial received way too much heat from too many directions for his 4 post entrance and is probably just town

if gavial is a villager this feels more like TMI than how alison has approached him

it could also be w/w since this was before gavial’s elimination was really set i think, and wolves are more likely to defend teammates off stuff like “everyone is suspecting them” because it’s technically true and doesn’t require them to argue that their teammates’ posts are villagery

i’m not sure how kza usually treats teammates as a wolf though

in general his iso is pretty bare and he feels flatter/lower energy than i remember him being as a villager

@KZA sup? the thread could use more kza

i’m keeping my vote on gavial

if he’s a villager that decided to not play the game and then lolcat with words and post stuff indistinguishable from anti-spew i can live with being wrong and will just say lolseth then move on with my life

i don’t want 48 more hours of whatever this is

Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:38 am page 13 especially gives me extreme wolves-trying-to-look-towny vibes
the way the entire poe turned on each other rather than outward makes me feel like our PoE is either mostly correct or completely wrong

Marluxion wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 4:45 am it's mostly the vibes i get from hally and alison on that page
they control like 60% of the page's posts and they dont really interact at all

also the second bit
dya is on alison
galvial is on dya
tan and arete crossvoting
hally pushing seth

it justs feels like most of the poe is attacking the poe, whereas i'd expect the stronger villagers in the poe to have a significantly different perspective but that doesn't seem to be the case
whether it's w/w or wolves attacking the lhf in the poe i'm not sure yet

stuff like this gave me v!marl vibes

i think as a wolf he tends to play more straightforwardly and doesn’t usually have these pepe silvia theories about the gamestate as a whole

i can see the gears turning here, so to speak

up to this point i wasn’t completely sold on marl v even though i was leaning that way but with his recent posting i’m gonna say he’s probably a villager

i’m gonna sponge vulgard on arete since i mostly liked their posts anyway

and i would say i’m sponging arete on vulgard but he was obvious even without that

so that’s two villas locked in

i’m taking this as a sign it’s time to sleep

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:23 am okay wait

am I dumb/failing to know about nicknames or did Seth just state reads on three people who aren't in the game

they’re all voting in the poll as spectators but aren’t playing

he’s lolcatting with words

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:14 am
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:12 am
Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:11 am
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:09 am
Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:04 am ...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show
the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him
I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town
this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear
why

when I said 'Seth's meta is that when he's town it makes you want to bash your head against the wall' near SoD did you not believe me

i mean, i’ve seen his village game and i would say he usually makes people want to bang their heads against a wall by having wolf reads that he pushes aggressively without listening to anyone else and generally being all over the place

i’m not feeling that in his posts this game. he’s making me want to facepalm, not bash my head into a wall

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:11 am
Hally wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:09 am
Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:04 am ...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show
the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him
I mean it's not at a lock yet but his posts make me want to repeatedly hit my head against the nearest wall which is usually a good sign that he's town

this is the opposite of what i wanted to hear

Arete wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:04 am ...so the good news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

Spoiler: show
the bad news is that Gavial's town stocks are rapidly rising

is that really all it takes? i’m not denying he’s getting better in the sense that he’s making posts but the posts still suck and don’t seem like v!him

i agree nutella

i think it’s fine to read gavial/alison as w/v but i don’t get how dya thinks gavial is the villager in that pair

a small part of me wants to say dya’s treatment of gavial is sloppy to be w/w and they would just bus him more straightforwardly

but i do think dya’s approach to him is worse than alison’s

Gavial wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:58 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:57 pm gavial, what are your reads? how much have you read?
Barley anything.
My read is Dizzy is shielding me way more then Alison is.
Then again I haven’t really seen any of Alison’s posts so lol.

then how do you know alison is shielding you less than dizzy?

gavial, what are your reads? how much have you read?

i don’t think alison would see shielding gavial as a good play even if he’s a wolf PR because it obviously wouldn’t work

but i agree that’s probably the only scenario where her approach makes at least a bit of sense as w/w

if gavial is a goon i think alison is probably just a villager

Arete wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:15 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 11:06 pm arete, what’s your read on gavial?
based on what I've seen in the posts I've read (which, again, is not all the posts that exist) I think he's probably a wolf, he's not playing like town!Seth like at all, from what I've seen he's not even making an attempt at pushing any of his scumreads? which is one of the big things I expect from town!Seth

Alison had a post where she said that he plays to his wolf meta half the time as town which I don't think is true, I have actually seen it happen by which I mean 'I replaced in for him in a game where he was the uncontested top wagon for doing that' but I think it's more like ten percent of his town games than half of them? which is a number I completely made up but is probably the right ballpark

also I might be misremembering the details but someone had a post that was like 'why even bother to vote him out if he's a wolf, wolves are just going to bus him for towncred which doesn't help us' (this is a really misrepresentative paraphrase) and I think that's also dumb, wolves dying is always good and the fewer wolves there are the stronger the tracker is (and the fewer wolves need to die to turn the jailkeeper into a cop) (also he could be a wolf PR)

like if we're worried that wolves will just bus him we can just not give people towncred for being on his wagon if he flips scum? duh?

I'm not voting him yet because in the offchance he's not I don't want him to randomly tunnel me for Seth reasons when he gets back, getting tunnelled by Seth for sucky reasons is Not Fun, if he's still being wolfy by EoD then I can just vote him then and my vote will do exactly as much to kill him as it would if I voted now

i feel like you wouldn’t write the last paragraph as gavial’s teammate but that might be too easy, meh

arete, what’s your read on gavial?

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