The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:06 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:05 pm i will be re-reading the whole game. asking for 24 hours or so to put my thoughts together

Is it a very hard decision for you right now?

i have a lean, but the correct thing to do in this type of situation is to thoroughly re-read the players that i'm in the f3 with

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:05 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:03 pm Can we not

Visor was right about everything

what was he right about?

That chopping him was bad and c4/you was lock

This question is also bad, and I'm probably going to vote you today. So if you're town, you should probably try to convince me not to

why do you wanna vote me?

i will be re-reading the whole game. asking for 24 hours or so to put my thoughts together

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:03 pm Can we not

Visor was right about everything

what was he right about?

*cracks knuckles*

i gotta go even though i really dont want to right now

the solve is probably still just in visor/c4 but if im alive in a f3 with dizzy tomorrow then i will need to do my due diligence for him

visor commenting on meta from one of my wolf games is mildly villagery in the sense that it shows he actually went out of his way to read one of my wolfgames

but he's taking such the incorrect conclusion from that meta that i feel like he's weaponizing it

shrug

honestly the way that dizzy is playing up the dynamic between me/visor is making me worry that we live in some world where he's a deepwolf that sees an easy POE laid out before him, but i am PROBABLY just psyching myself out - i have found his scumhunting today and the way he quickly shifts his stances very villagery in spite of my paranoia

i'm voting visor primarily because his posts within the last ~20 minutes are the wolfiest posts that he's made in this game by far - the language of "you're throwing the game", "this is so silly", "let's just deal with it tomorrow", etc etc is the exact type of language that i see pressured wolves use to take attention off of themselves all of the time. outed wolf's reasoning for me being a wolf is also so baffling that i know we would lose immediately in a world where he IS a villager and im in a f3 with him, so my vote on him is partially out of selfishness/the feeling that it's more "optimal" to vote out the person who would probably immediately vote me in a f3 scenario

i dont think that c4's posting within the last few hours is outside of the range of a good wolf, but i do think his posts are mildly villagery. they show a lack of self-preservation intent and the depth of thought is fairly good

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:00 pm Vote C4 and we can do this song and dance tomorrow.

Or I guess you can ignore literally every villager in this game outside of you lot who've found me an obvious villager

Did any of you actually read Zack and aretes posts?

why do you even want them to vote for c4 when you think that i'm the final wolf?

and if youre that confident that im the final wolf and that c4 is a villager, why not just let yourself die and then leave me being a wolf as your legacy? sounds like the game is a lock FYPOV

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:58 pm spf, why dont you have a vote on the board?

i have to leave in like 5 minutes

ill place a vote before then

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:56 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:55 pm

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:54 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:52 pm

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:50 pm Spfs arguments against C4 that arete pointed out are pretty classic her wolf game when she struggles to know what to push

Jesus someone's still trying to argue spf's playing like w!spf
If you think she's a wolf argue how she shattered her meta not this

She hasn't shattered her meta. She's struggled to push people since dya died. All she's done is bus her team and flounder exactly how she pointed out she does as a wolf

you seem p confident that im a wolf now lol

Yeah I came to the conclusion when arete pointed out how you were treating C4 (plus your constant discrediting of arete too)

this is wacky. if youre town then you are completely losing the plot by accusing people voting you of gamethrowing and by lazily reiterating the misunderstandings that arete had about my posts. it's hard for me to believe that a single thing that you're saying right now is real

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:54 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:52 pm

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:50 pm Spfs arguments against C4 that arete pointed out are pretty classic her wolf game when she struggles to know what to push

Jesus someone's still trying to argue spf's playing like w!spf
If you think she's a wolf argue how she shattered her meta not this

She hasn't shattered her meta. She's struggled to push people since dya died. All she's done is bus her team and flounder exactly how she pointed out she does as a wolf

you seem p confident that im a wolf now lol

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:52 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:51 pm Dumb thing is, I have to sleep like now. I haven't slept at all almost all weekend. Getting up for work too soon.

I'm voting Visor. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Visor said it himself, it's ok to be wrong. But circling around, he just looks the worst right now. He has no clearing interactions from Dya/Vul.

Honestly this is really silly.

You are literally throwing the game pal.

your reactions to dizzy wolfreading you are honestly the wolfiest posts that you've made in this entire game - i remember that hally reacted in the exact same way when they got caught as a wolf in the champs finale (accusing dizzy of throwing the game lol)

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:47 pm Dizzy cmon. We're going to kill C4 and then SPF. Every dead villager is pretty confident im a villager.

I know it's hard for you but the answer truly is simple.

oh wow this post is awful

i need to go mow the lawn before it starts raining, so i wont even be here for the last ~hour or so

which is why it really sucks that things are being shaken up now lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:45 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:44 pm nutella, if youre that sure that the final wolf is visor, why are you voting c4?

And who do you want to vote here?

the fact that i can't give you a comfortable answer to that question is exactly why i feel frozen. i arrived at the final wolf being between c4 and visor about ~36 hours ago and as of ~12 hours ago, i would have told you that c4 should probably just be the chop. his posting right now is villagery but i guess i'm working out if it's villagery enough to move the needle (and if it is, then am i ACTUALLY comfortable voting for visor? the entire thing is making me worried that you're a wolf lol)

nutella, if youre that sure that the final wolf is visor, why are you voting c4?

c4, what's the wolfiest thing about visor, in your opinion?

i'm somewhat salty that this is all happening an hour before the day ends lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:37 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:35 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:33 pm i wont spend too long responding to them since arete can't respond, but arete misunderstood quite a few of my posts in their analysis. i didn't shade arete for "not leaving a legacy behind" - i was concerned about the fact that they did not seem very worried about finding the last wolf, and poking at their mindset to gauge how much they genuinely cared about figuring the game out. and me saying that we shouldn't let arete lead the chop today is not the same thing as saying that we should not meaningfully consider their reads.

I feel like this ends up not saying much.

wat does that mean

It means that you're saying a lot of words, but it doesn't make us come closer to any solution.

i'm not trying to give you the solution. i'm explaining why arete's legacy read on me was flawed

to answer your other question, i honestly am a little frozen right now. i think that c4 going out of his way to towncase me when he would almost certainly need to get me mischopped to win is pretty villagery, and my primary concern right now is whether or not i can fully trust that visor would be the wolf in a world where c4 is a villager (ie: can i fully, 100% trust you?)

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:35 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:33 pm i wont spend too long responding to them since arete can't respond, but arete misunderstood quite a few of my posts in their analysis. i didn't shade arete for "not leaving a legacy behind" - i was concerned about the fact that they did not seem very worried about finding the last wolf, and poking at their mindset to gauge how much they genuinely cared about figuring the game out. and me saying that we shouldn't let arete lead the chop today is not the same thing as saying that we should not meaningfully consider their reads.

I feel like this ends up not saying much.

wat does that mean

i wont spend too long responding to them since arete can't respond, but arete misunderstood quite a few of my posts in their analysis. i didn't shade arete for "not leaving a legacy behind" - i was concerned about the fact that they did not seem very worried about finding the last wolf, and poking at their mindset to gauge how much they genuinely cared about figuring the game out. and me saying that we shouldn't let arete lead the chop today is not the same thing as saying that we should not meaningfully consider their reads.

c4 going out of his way to towncase me an hour and a half before the deadline is making my head spin as well. i don't blame dizzy for getting cold feet. he's looking in the wrong place though

i am home and not entirely sober

ama if anyone is around

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:50 am fwiw im at c4/spf too.

just like arete, zack, and presumably dizzy

i imagine spf is c4/me and nutella is either passed out or has a tough 50/50 tomorrow if c4 is a villa

yeah that's essentially where im at

honestly i wouldnt even mind if that was the f3, it would be spicy as hell

that's fair

i hope it's just c4

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:28 pm

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:26 pm I uh expected some kind of posting overnight

meh

i'm done putting effort into this game


fmpov it's either c4 or you, theres not really anything more to look into that i haven't already

im actually fairly surprised at how quickly you seem to have shifted into believing that im a villager, given how strong your concern about me felt in the earlier dayphases

but i feel like im kicking the hornets nest by making this post so i probably shouldnt complain lol

i'll be out for most of this evening. at this rate i probably just want to kill c4 and then see what happens if the game is still going

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:09 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:41 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?

Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.

I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.

if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?

I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]

right, but you're making it sound like you think it would be beneficial for you to die before the f3. at the same time, you made a move at the end of yesterday that guaranteed that you would survive for another day. i'm just curious if dying in this game is something that you actually want to happen

I don't understand this line of questioning at all, SPF.

"If you are town, why did you not just self sacrifice hmmmm" like wat

if he believes that it would be optimal for him to die before the f3, then that wasn't reflected in his actions at the very end of yesterday. that's p much it

i've decided to trust dizzy unconditionally for the rest of this game

also i have a POE of 2 names and one name that i clearly wolfread more than the other in that POE - to say that i'm "not wolfreading anyone right now" is just a deliberate misinterpretation of my posts

are you intentionally acting combative and frustrated now because i said that i was worried that you werent stressed enough? lmao. i don't understand your attitude right now, i think that your argument for why vulgard's interactions spew you as a villager are based on assumptions that are mildly flawed. that does NOT make you a wolf, it just means that i disagree with the point

i'm not even wolfreading you right now, i just don't agree that the argument that you're making is as strong as you're implying it is

lol alright then

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:32 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:30 am alright, thanks

i agree that he threw shade on you multiple times and kept you in his pool of immediate suspects, but it might be a slight exaggeration to say that he tried to kill you, don't you think? he didn't vote for you at any point (as far as i can tell) and much of his shade on you appears to have existed in conjunction w/shade against zack/sunbae as well. since vulgard showed that they weren't even remotely shy about bussing (ie: their early interactions with dya), i don't find it implausible that vulgard would go out of his way to shade you in a world where you two are W/W

yes and guess what zack and sunbae were

VILLAGERS

....so? you're arguing that vulgard wouldn't go out of his way to shade you and try to make you look bad when you were universally townread, but that straight up is just not the experience of a good portion of the mafia games that i've played. partners, especially partners that are hyperworried about looking like partners, will often go out of their way to distance in sub-optimal situations. if vulgard tried to get you KILLED, i would agree with your point, but he didn't

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:30 am again, what is the point of him pushing me as w/w when i am townreading him and basically everyone is townreading me?

well i mean, the obvious answer is: "to make it look like you aren't partnered". if all he did was buddy you all game then it would make the two of you look compatible when the other shoe dropped - i doubt that vulgard would roll wolf with you and cash all his chips in the belief that the two of you could endgame together without being caught - the position that he put you in (shading) doesn't feel unusual for partners at all tbqh

im not saying they make you wolfy, i just dont really find them town indicative for you

alright, thanks

i agree that he threw shade on you multiple times and kept you in his pool of immediate suspects, but it might be a slight exaggeration to say that he tried to kill you, don't you think? he didn't vote for you at any point (as far as i can tell) and much of his shade on you appears to have existed in conjunction w/shade against zack/sunbae as well. since vulgard showed that they weren't even remotely shy about bussing (ie: their early interactions with dya), i don't find it implausible that vulgard would go out of his way to shade you in a world where you two are W/W

oh, you must be implying that he pushed you on d1-d2, whereas i only remember his pushing as existing on d3. i'm open to being proven wrong

well if vulgard was virtually guaranteed to go over on d3, and you were widely townread, then what does he have to lose by throwing shade on you? if anything, that just makes you look better after he inevitably flips red

it's possible i'm misremembering the severity of the push, though

he didn't make a concentrated effort to kill you, did he....?

i remember him saying to kill you after he died, but i dont realistically think you had any chance of going on d3, no?

that makes sense ig

sure

it's just that in situations like this, my mind tends to run wild with tinfoil and paranoia and i have to constantly ground myself and re-assess my reads

whereas i dont really sense much of that paranoia/re-assessment from you - it just seems like youre vibing

im mostly just reiterating everything i said in my last post but i guess im just slightly worried about how chill you seem in contrast w/everyone else

outed wolf wrote: ↑Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:27 am so wheres your head at then spf

well i guess it's fair to say that most of my scumhunting today has been internal - i've been "covering my bases" so to speak and making sure that my worldview in this game makes sense. i started that by allowing myself to "tinfoil" nutella and make sure that she's a villager. my concern about nutella stemmed from my inability to understand her thought process regarding her reaction to the start of today. i thought it was odd that she believed that zack dying made you look worse, and the way that she shifted from voting c4 to voting for you felt inorganic to me in the moment (you can see this reflected in the way that i was questioning her at the start of the day)

i theorized that we could live in a world where nutella killed zack because zack, to my memory, is the only player in this game that expressed concern about nutella yesterday (ie: "i'm worried we're clearing nutella too easily"), and because nutella thought that zack dying would make you look worse as a result. i no longer feel like this is the case - i think the nutella seemed to overstate the amount that zack was actually suspicious of outed wolf, but i don't think that was done from a place of opportunism - i think that nutella just saw that zack died and assumed that he would be an obvious kill target FYPOV because of how well the two of you know each other. i also think that nutella immediately proceeding to tinfoil me and c4 after pushing on you at daystart (while still maintaining the suspicion against you) shows that she's struggling to get her reads in a stable position. i think her reads are almost too fluid to come from a wolf POV, if that makes sense?

so yeah, i think that nutella is town, and i've more or less accepted that she's probably just going to win in a world where she's a wolf. that leaves you, dyslexicon, c4

dyslexicon has been a point of interest for me today - i have found his posts VERY villagery on a tonal level and i think there is a high depth of thought contained within his reads (like the point about vulgard's wording spewing c4 as a wolf) that usually just comes from a villager POV. my main concern about dizzy has been the fact that he apparently has a boundless scumrange and the fact that his presence in this game has been low enough that it's a bit harder for me to determine his alignment with confidence (which i know he complained about before :P). THAT SAID, i'm leaning on just writing off dizzy as town and leaving it at that, considering that tangrowth (who apparently is very experienced with him) townread him with a fairly high level of confidence, and considering the fact that nutella feels the same way. i also thought that the way dizzy kinda circled around from townreading me to wolfreading me again was villagery too, and indicative of a lack of agenda. if dizzy wanted to set me up as a mischop then i doubt that he would suddenly declare that im a villager at the start of the day only to shift it when he started to feel uneasy - i suspect that that type of uneasiness is villager indicative for him

so my mindset rn is that nutella is definitely town, and dizzy is probably town. i think the final wolf is between you and c4

c4 is an interesting case because his posts today are probably the wolfiest posts he's made all game - the way that he implied that i could be a wolf only to then effectively backtrack it felt kind of like he was being slippery to me - c4 is usually very blunt and to the point with his reads, whereas it felt in this case like c4 was partially afraid of getting caught in a crossfire and having people turn against him. i also think that he showed a little bit of mindset dissonance w/the way that he made a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday, only to come into today expressing that he thinks he probably shouldn't be alive for f3. it's true that he's in a worse position, but c4 seemed similarly defeatist yesterday (he said: "yeah, i wouldnt want me in a f3 either" when the majority of votes were on him), so him making that move to stay alive just kinda rubbed me the wrong way. if c4 being chopped ends the game and i've just been foolishly clearing him for ~meta~ reasons then i guess i will simply swallow my pride and never emphasize meta strongly again lol. i think that he can be a wolf

that leaves you - i concluded yesterday that you were probably just a villager, and i don't particularly want to go back to tinfoiling you AGAIN after the long exchange we had - my trajectory w/reading you feels identical to my trajectory with reading sunbae, in the sense that i usually feel good about you in the moment but then bad once i left my mind linger a little bit more. the main concern i have about you today (and also a concern that i had yesterday) is that you just don't seem very concerned with finding the last wolf to me? like, if i could describe the atmosphere of the thread today in one word, it would be: "stressful". you don't sound stressed out to me. you don't sound particularly worried to me. it feels like you're just a vibing in a threadstate where the mood is anything but a vibe, lol, and that's what worries me. like even right now, what are you actually getting from asking me where my head is at? are you gonna go anywhere with it? is it gonna impact your reads at all? cause im concerned that youre just asking filler questions to give off the impression of scumhunting without actually doing it

i appreciate the effort zack, but also -_________________________-

i'm not exactly in SPF Tryhard Mode right now but to say that i've been solely "underwhelming" i feel is unfair to the effort that i put into scumhunting in real time yesterday (and today as well)

also ive played closer to 4-5 games with c4, and he's read me with 100% accuracy in all of them. why would i be weirded out by him reading me accurately in this game too? i HAVE been concerned that he's been TMI'ing me as a villager, but your entire point about me "accepting" c4's read is absurdly silly

im annoyed that you used your post to tinfoil me and then put me in the POE but i understand that you cant respond and that im shouting into the void so w/e lol

c4, will you have a firm answer on my alignment by the EOD? not "i would maybe kill SPF in f3", i mean: "SPF is town" or "SPF is mafia"

am i obvious town, or am i the person you would kill in the f3?

it cant be both

o_________O

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:52 pm im feeling pretty psyduck rn

spf making me sus of her again

if it helps, i just spent a solid hour tinfoiling you