The Syndicate

Dennis wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:51 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:35 pm Roxy is my top wolfread and they should prob always go for Alison and also for the moon thing not going off on them
why do you think it's wolf indicative for roxy to have not had the moon go off on her? we don't even know the alignment of the person that used the moon. that doesn't make sense
Well yeah isn't that the point? We don't know the alignment of the person who used the Moon, so it could've been a wolf who wanted to make sure m!Roxy lived another day.

it could have been, but is there any particular reason to believe that this is the case? why is it not possible that the moon was used by a villager who was tunneled on alison? or used by a wolf who wanted to cement the aliosn elimination before she could scumhunt further and leave a proper legacy?

to say: "the moon did not go off on roxy, so therefore roxy is mafia" is working backwards from how you are supposed to get reads

sig wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:32 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:33 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm Someone talk to me about Sig, if you want. I can't make you
Sig has produced no coherent content and has made primarily bad votes. In conclusion, he is objectively null but you should get rid of him after you clear the main suspects because once he starts wolfsiding he doesn't stop.
I know she’s dead and ooof was a civ. But, I’ll still respond.

1. This is quiet honestly a horrible take and why I’m still okay with her being voted and flipped. The idea we should vote for someone since “Once he starts wolfsiding he won’t stop” makes Zero sense what so ever, isn’t a very town centric way to play the game and let’s be real I might not be doing the most, but in terms of wolfsiding there’s a good 3-5 players being more “wolfsidingy” than me. (This is a dumb term to start with since unless a town member is intentionally throwing they’re not siding with a wolf. It just means they don’t agree with you.

2. I’ve had a lot of coherent thoughts, I’ve made multiple reads and laid out who I would and wouldn’t vote for. Just because I’m not building mega cases right now doesn’t mean I’m not giving reads.

3. I’ve literally voted for two players, the first was an obvious joke vote the second was for Allison where it remained with logically thoughts for said vote.

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Creature wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:35 pm Roxy is my top wolfread and they should prob always go for Alison and also for the moon thing not going off on them

why do you think it's wolf indicative for roxy to have not had the moon go off on her? we don't even know the alignment of the person that used the moon. that doesn't make sense

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:35 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:26 pm can someone pull up the votecount at the end of day one for me please?

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:58 pm Day 1 Poll

Spoiler: show
fingersplints: 8
Alison
Baudib1
Bereft
lucy
MacDougall
RondoDimBuckle
staypositivefriend
tutuu

Alison: 6
falcon45ca
fingersplints
Jackofhearts2005
Neon
Roxy
sig

Baudib1: 2
DrWilgy
Seanzie

Dennis : 1
Kate

Missed the Vote: 1
Porscha

I had to piece it back together as I neglected to save it in the middle of the chaos. I also edited it into the EoD 1 post so it can be found easily.

thanks!

im having a bit of trouble unpacking this votecount because my original impression is that the wolves were probably split fairly evenly between the alison/fingersplints wagons, since they were both town and it wouldn't be crucial to the wolfteam which one died first

but i townread the majority of the players on the splints wagon and i dont townread the majority of the players on the alison wagon, but a world where most or all of the wolfteam stacked on alison on d1 doesnt really make sense to me

does anyone remember what the wagons were like before alison/fingersplints became the consensus? who else was in contention?

i feel like basic wagonomics points to there being multiple wolves in the non-voters of splints/alisons

can someone pull up the votecount at the end of day one for me please?

[VOTE: roxy] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:32 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm You guys should policy Mac if he doesn't produce pelts soon by the way since he's wrong on both fingersplints and me which is pretty out of form for him.
Shit I need to bus someone. Um, ah. Fuck um.

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

slay queen

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:31 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:28 pm @lucy -

i think it's possible that this might be the same situation as d3 in da bois invitational but this time alison is you

and im in the same position too, but lacking confidence to assert the position on the chance that im wrong

do you get what im saying?
What situation would that be?

in that game, lucy was a villager who was tunneled by the rest of the game to the extent that she was convinced it was optimal to die, and she spent the entire day reiterating that she needed to die for the sake of the game

i recognized that lucy was playing in her town meta in that game but i wasnt confident enough to meaningfully defend her for various reasons, mainly being the confidence that other people i townread had about alison being mafia

my thought was that the dynamics here are effectively the same, even if i am considerably less sure about your alignment than i was about lucy's alignment in that game. just something i was thinking about

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 10:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:26 pm i really hope that a wolf did that.
I am not sure this is a real thought.

no, it was a bad decision but i dont care to debate it

@lucy -

i think it's possible that this might be the same situation as d3 in da bois invitational but this time alison is you

and im in the same position too, but lacking confidence to assert the position on the chance that im wrong

do you get what im saying?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:58 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:54 pm Alison is doing a play by play exact replica of King of the Hill. I can't get over that lol its exactly the same.

Like

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&t=24 ... &start=250

Exactly the same. Every single aspect of it.

I kinda town read the switch off on Kate but than I remembered that a very similar thing happened to the wolf team when I subbed out in KotH mafia for mental health reasons and they abandoned the Neon push because they thought my subbing out was town indicative because of the way it was done.
This is what I’ve been saying. It’s grossly blatant to the point when I’d actually agree with Tutuu on the bussing thing if I didn’t independently townread Sig and myself.

hate this post regardless of alison's alignment

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

having an existential crisis atm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:52 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:56 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:35 pm i don't claim to have any level of confidence in reading alison correctly but i do honestly feel like the main reasons ive seen to justify voting her have been more related to her playstyle than her alignment

feels kind of icky
Does icky mean wrong or scummy in this context?

If scummy, who is scum pushing or voting Alison?
it means scummy, and it also means that if we live in a world where she's town (which i do perceive as being more likely right now than not) at least one of the people who wagoned her is a wolf trying to push on her opportunistically

and jack, i actually perceived your read on alison as being the most sincere out of everyone who has pushed on her so far, since you were more or less the "ringleader" for building momentum against her and i perceive you as being the main person who is projecting a lot of confidence about her being mafia

but your confidence is starting to bother me the more that i think about it. it's possible that you're right about alison but frankly i think your reasoning for pushing on alison is pretty bad. i don't think the things that you are pushing alison for (ie: "she is treating people in bad faith") are alignment indicative for alison, and i do expect you to understand that these things aren't alignment indicative as someone who has presumably played a lot of games with alison

so, while i think it's possible that your read onalison could be correct, your confidence about alison being mafia doesn't feel even slightly proportional to the actual casework you have done against her, and my memory of the other towngames i saw from you is that you were much more considerate and you had a much broader perspective than the one you are projecting here

so uhhh, i think what im going to need from you for me to not want to vote you today is for you to just talk to me very broadly about your reads that AREN'T alison. if alison was no longer on the table today, who would you want to eliminate? if we briefly assume for a moment that alison is town, what would ur view of the game look like?

@Jackofhearts2005 - please respond to this post as soon as you can

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:47 pm @staypositivefriend can you out the theory

i was bullshitting, i just wanted the mafia to kill me

i am very aware of the fact that jack didn't answer me. the way that he enters the game today will determine my answer to that question

i was looking forward to the 24 hour break so i'm mad at whoever did that

i really hope that a wolf did that.

mac
lucy
tutuu
dennis
bereft
rondo
baud

my current townreads in the exact order that i townread them. i think there is one mafia maximum in this pool

im capped now so gl gl

if this is actually dennis's third mafia game then i agree that he's town too

i have a very specific theory about what's happening but im going to wait until d2 to say it

mafia this is ur chance to kill me before i break the game open

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:34 pm
fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:14 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:10 pm fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?
I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts
i'm voting fingersplints because she said that she thought alison and roxy were T v T but then positioned herself to vote alison anyway because the "wagons need to be resolved", which does not feel like a thought or an action that is likely to come from someone who has any actual interest in solving the game or pursuing her own reads

in fact, i want to say that if fingersplints is mafia then alison and roxy are both hard spewed town because this looks transparently like finger setting herself up to push on alison and roxy back to back

in this world jack is almost definitely mafia too ftr.

if anyone feels strongly that i should vote for someone that isn't splints, @ me and tell me why

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:14 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:10 pm fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?
I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts

i'm voting fingersplints because she said that she thought alison and roxy were T v T but then positioned herself to vote alison anyway because the "wagons need to be resolved", which does not feel like a thought or an action that is likely to come from someone who has any actual interest in solving the game or pursuing her own reads

in fact, i want to say that if fingersplints is mafia then alison and roxy are both hard spewed town because this looks transparently like finger setting herself up to push on alison and roxy back to back

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:28 pm i was expecting this EOD to feel a little bit more ....contentious? there has barely been a consensus in this dayphase at all and usually the EODs in gamestates like these are very messy and all over the place. it feels weirdly calm to me

not sure exactly what that means but yeah

maybe the problem is just that everyone postcapped themselves

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:28 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:54 pm
Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:27 pm [VOTE: Baudib] aubergine
@Dennis - explain this vote please
A lot of his arguments are very ???? to me and rely almost completely on Alison being town. Which is like, what do you do if that person is bad as civ. Which is why I think it could be TMI.

can you show me an argument from him that you think is wolf indicative?

anyway im here until the EOD now at any rate

i was expecting this EOD to feel a little bit more ....contentious? there has barely been a consensus in this dayphase at all and usually the EODs in gamestates like these are very messy and all over the place. it feels weirdly calm to me

not sure exactly what that means but yeah

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

oh i tr rondo too and forgot to include him ftr

still not here

i have to go for a bit but i'll try to be here for the EOD

at the risk of wolfsiding, i want to reiterate that killing or baub today both feels like bad options to me. we shouldn't. i'm probably going to vote between jack and creature but i will vote to save alison or baub if it ends up coming down to it

also i know i said i thought sig could be mafia but i ISO'd him and changed my mind

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:04 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?
i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves
I would guess you are probably correct.

I would say of the people casing/pushing me, Rondo is almost certainly town; Seanzie feels genuine; Falcon seems extremely sus. Bereft feels pure and his casing of Falcon was solid work.

Splints/sig/wilgy are flying utr.

Roxy seems rand to me; I think the pushback on Alison is likely at least partially wolf-driven though that doesn't mean much for Roxy's alignment imo.

Pretty tough to yeet mafia in this game state with 5 living so if you want to move to another wagon please @me, i'm out of posts. Who else do you trust?

i townread mac, lucy, bereft, tutuu, you, and sig roughly in that order. i'm not willing to vote for alison today even though i'm not sure about her alignment

i had fingersplints as a light townlean but she just hopped on alison in a way that extremely rubs me the wrong way

rest of the game feels kind of inscrutable to me rn

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:10 pm fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

alison and roxy*

fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

actually i might be townreading splint's posts a bit more than i just implied

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:55 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:50 pm ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm
What wagon(s) would you prefer instead?

i perceive the pool of creature/splints/falcon/sig as being likely to contain at least 2 wolves

ftr im insecure about my vote on jack and im not sure that im going to hold there

i just prefer him over the baud/alison wagons atm

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:42 pm Alison - told you to try and get me elimmed but instead you got nothing accomplished. You think I left bc I was angry? Wrong, so wrong.
I just do not see a point of derailing the thread with a bunch of bullshit or arguing with someone that twists everything I say like people can't read the few posts I have to see for themselves. lolololol
Now you doubled down on me and you have back tracked on Kate with what I consider illogical reasoning.

You tried to implicate that I have "documented" anger issues. Like lol wtf hahaha

lucy is kind of misrepresenting what we discussed. We clashed as teammates during LGM. She outed herself and left me (the only other teammate alive) swinging in the breeze. She did not even try to defend. We lost big time. Then in Felt 3 I was bad she was town. We elimmed her but she wrote a bunch of stories after her death in dead red and they kinda creeped me out so I called her out on it in thread which as an adult I realized belatedly that was wrong, I should have PMed her which is what I did. I apologized to her and we had a chat on discord that had nothing to do with anger issues. I can copy it for you if you would like.

You are so new to this site. So is lucy. I've been here almost from inception. (So has kate and splints and couple of others)
As a baddie I would never argue with a teammate in thread nor try and destroy a case they made. I'm way better than that.
You would not know my meta so acting like you can out me so easily is quite funny to this old woman.

You are super aggro. Not very townie. I use words like: psychic (which I did say sorry to you), honey, sweetheart and sorry. You use words like: impolite, angry, weird, less coherent and scum.
You twist everything I say. I call it a ping you say it's a suspicion (insert one of your scummy terms). I explain my thought process and you say it is contradictory and I wonder if you are wilfully ignoring what I am saying. Nope. You call it a scumread.

I've never once said you were a baddie, but with all of your derailing the thread with Kate, me, Neon, Jack (but you won't engage with Rondo, why?) saying I've blown my top or an a frozen mafia (I've probs been playing longer than your age lmao) and I should be elimmed bc its generating question marks. ( but only to you and your pal Creature). Yes I believe you are bad. After more 24+ hours of discussion not just a few hours like yourself.

I never returned bc 1- rl
2- there is no town advantage to a thread derail by someone's tunnel vision.

You dug a hole for yourself with your aggro stances. Which earns you my vote. Enjoy.
Vote: Alison

do u have any reads outside of alison that u wanna talk about with me?

rondo is the towniest person who has expressed concerns about baub and he isn't even on the baub wagon

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

my hot take is that sig might be mafia

oh i meant to ping lucy and not luckbox

for the record im unwilling to vote baub or alison today

@MacDougall @Luckbox Inc -

ur both good at reading porscha right? can you give me your thoughts on her?

i was under the impression she was mildly polarized which also admittedly means that i was lowering my bar for townreading ppl a lot when i was reading her. but ppl are saying she's still within her wolfrange so i'm confused now

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:10 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:24 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:02 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:14 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:55 am Somebody do something to make me feel something.
I'm listening to Easy to Tame by Kim Mitchell, and got Rich Gurl by Hall & Oates qued up next.

Get hyped.

What's your take on Wilgy?
lol I think DrWilgy had a wolf list that feels like it's 0/3 so he can go
agree / retract my scumread on creature
I havent loved creature so far but this feels pockety towards him mostly because I already thought it was a weird sentiment from him but now you agree
But also why would mac want to pocket creature
...................... maybe I should just assume I'm not seeing what you're seeing and its townier than my instincts say it is
I imagine you'll explain the wilgy reads thing in a further post so I won't ask for now

i thought it was towny that porscha bounced between like 3 different conclusions in the same post, and the complexity of thought made me think she was genuinely trying to solve, but it's also true that this is a post that effectively communicates and expresses nothing, which is a trend with most of porscha's posts

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:34 am
Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:14 am
Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:06 am I also dont think the beginning of the game was boring or that porscha v was the only read to be had.
+1
It gave me a weird feeling when I read it too and I didn't entirely understand the follow up on it but I see she's being tr'd after the fact and I dont really understand the tr's either
but maybe it's because I didnt feel like I was grasping the in between very well so maybe that's why I dont understand the conclusion

this post is very wheel-spinny and talks around me a lot without really communicating anything specific

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:30 am
Neon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:16 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:43 am hi neon do you have any thots
Always. Falcon is town it's a vibe thing.

You feel town so far and I totally won't kill you in F5.

Lucy feels like a villa trying to improve on things in their game they've been told are holding them back idk that's the vibe I'm getting.

I'm so obviously town it hurts.

SPF is meh to me on opening.

I don't like Alison's vibes atm but it's a weak vibe read.

I don't know if Mac believes his own reads right now but I kind of don't like them and that feels bad for me on a personal level because I usually feel some kind of connection to mac early where I'm like oh yeah I agree with this thought but I've not felt that here at all.

I have zero reasons to actually vote Seanzie but I'm gonna stay here for now anyways cause rvs. and cause if I vote Sean everytime they say town streakingeventually Sean will be scum and I can be all like told you Seanwas scum lmao
I also thought falcon's entrance was towny even by his standard of entry lol cuz normally I still have some doubt on every entry post he does but this time it actually sounded like..... I feel like normally he makes his entry post have something wolfy about it on purpose and this time it doesnt seem that way! unsure if he should actually be tr'd for that now that I think about it though

also what do you mean about mac not believing his own reads? it can't just be b/c you aren't mind melding with him on his reads, so what makes you think that?

i think i would like this post a lot more if porscha didn't conclude with: "unsure if he should actually be tr'd for that". i think the observation is complex in a way that shows some depth of thought though

Porscha wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:26 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 11:35 am
lucy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:45 am Porscha town due to feeling comfortable and posting analysis already in this playerlist
This looks like a clean attempt to pocket imo.
I've considered it, but since I dont really think it makes a lot of sense for lucy to make the post about try harding (especially cuz I think she is aware that myself and likely some other players here see her try hard more as wolf and not as town) if shes wolfing, I already mentally had her sorted to the town side unless something egregious changes
But maybe I'm just happy to not have the mislynch train on me early for once so whatever it can be a tentative tr that I'll keep in mind

this is probably the towniest post in porscha's ISO because she takes a confident stance on lucy in an unprompted way while still demonstrating that she's trying to think about her alignment. and the second line is just one of those lines wolves usually have a hard time faking

Porscha wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:29 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:14 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:01 pm I'll prob only be able to do good stuff after D1. I can't function without flips and seeing how wagons work on non-me players. Wagoning me here is detrimental to town.
also this post activates my fight or flight instincts with the way that creature worded it, even tho admittedly sometimes creature just makes post like that as both alignments
I feel like you're being a little hedgy on creature
like you made a couple pretty strong sounding posts about creature, which you're admittedly selling me on, but then ending with like "yeah but idk if its ai" like are ya comin or are ya goin

this is a really bizarre thing for porscha to say to me considering that almost every single read that she has posted in this game has been hedgy or come with a qualifier

porscha kind of feels like a mixed bag to me. if it's true that she is actually polarized and incapable of making towny sounding posts as mafia then she is probably town. if my impressions of her meta are incorrect then idk

honestly im not really sure that i want to kill her today. i would appreciate thoughts

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:27 pm [VOTE: Baudib] aubergine

@Dennis - explain this vote please

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:56 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:35 pm i don't claim to have any level of confidence in reading alison correctly but i do honestly feel like the main reasons ive seen to justify voting her have been more related to her playstyle than her alignment

feels kind of icky
Does icky mean wrong or scummy in this context?

If scummy, who is scum pushing or voting Alison?

it means scummy, and it also means that if we live in a world where she's town (which i do perceive as being more likely right now than not) at least one of the people who wagoned her is a wolf trying to push on her opportunistically

and jack, i actually perceived your read on alison as being the most sincere out of everyone who has pushed on her so far, since you were more or less the "ringleader" for building momentum against her and i perceive you as being the main person who is projecting a lot of confidence about her being mafia

but your confidence is starting to bother me the more that i think about it. it's possible that you're right about alison but frankly i think your reasoning for pushing on alison is pretty bad. i don't think the things that you are pushing alison for (ie: "she is treating people in bad faith") are alignment indicative for alison, and i do expect you to understand that these things aren't alignment indicative as someone who has presumably played a lot of games with alison

so, while i think it's possible that your read onalison could be correct, your confidence about alison being mafia doesn't feel even slightly proportional to the actual casework you have done against her, and my memory of the other towngames i saw from you is that you were much more considerate and you had a much broader perspective than the one you are projecting here

so uhhh, i think what im going to need from you for me to not want to vote you today is for you to just talk to me very broadly about your reads that AREN'T alison. if alison was no longer on the table today, who would you want to eliminate? if we briefly assume for a moment that alison is town, what would ur view of the game look like?

i swear to god that i saw a post from neon earlier where she asked me for my opinion on whether alison is playing like she played in king of the hill mafia and i can't find it and i feel like i'm having a stroke

but @Neon , assuming you did actually ask me that question,i don't really remember the specifics of how alison treated you in KOTH well enough to make a direct meta comparison

but one thing i will say is that while alison tends to be very confident and assertive as both alignments, i've noticed that she tends to be more stubborn and less willing to change her mind about certain reads as mafia, including the KOTH game. so, when i'm trying to read alison, there are a few primary things i'm looking at:

A. her results. this is one of the best metrics to read alison by. if alison kills or pushes on wolves within the first dayphase or two, she is usually a villager. if she doesn't, she is usually a wolf. there are exceptions to this rule, and it all needs to be taken contextually, but results are probably the best way to get an accurate read on a player like alison

B. her agenda (or, her flexibility). alison as a wolf has a very specific idea for how she wants games to play out, which means that she tends to be less open minded as scum and much less likely to change reads without being specifically prompted to. i think this is a good metric to read most players by, but it particularly fits for alison's playstyle

so, it's too early to judge alison by A, but if i'm judging her by B, i think she looks OK enough. i thought it was kind of towny that she randomly said that kate is a hard villager who townslipped when i don't see an obvious incentive for her to randomly change her mind like that as mafia

if alison is lining up kate for a mischop as mafia then i don't get why she would suddenly shift her positioning when kate was still being widely POE'd. if alison was lining up kate for a bus then i doubt alison would change her mind in such a jarring and blatant way. alison shifting her positioning in an unstrategic way is the biggest towntell she's had all day today

im not really confident in my ability to read alison but i thought it might be helpful to show how im thinking about her rn

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:31 pm Creature and Alison are terrible votes today.

@MacDougall @staypositivefriend
I realize it’s inevitable but I dislike meta reads since they are obviously exploitable and mutable and regardless of what you think of Creature’s game, he is indeed playing the game and at least giving the appearance of trying to discern alignments, which is more than what 3/4 of the player list is doing. Also multiple people here claim to be master reads of Creature, who becomes obvtown or obvwolf later in the game. Let’s find a Wolfy player who isn’t doing anything.

okay

can you sell me on a jack vote without using meta?

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:47 am My strongest SR right now I think is Alison/Mac I just think they've been treating people poorly for bad reasons and are digging in their heels in a way that feels less like trying to solve the game and more like trying to make people look bad for things that aren't really that bad.

can you give me some examples of where you think mac specifically has done this?

a wolf needs to jump through more mental hoops than a villager does to make a post that expresses confusion over the number of mafia in the game

this is because the wolves are playing with perfect information, and it is harder for someone playing from a position of perfect information to think about faking a towntell like that, even if most wolves are capable of doing it

it's an occams razor type thing. the answer that requires the least amount of assumptions is the most likely to be true. the answer that requires the least number of assumptions in the type of post that tutuu made is that tutuu is a villager

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