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ilario wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:45 pmI’m ngl I feel like everyone’s had towny moments but I struggle so much to understand finger/giras world views that I personally would go there because even if they’re town I struggle to see us being able to find each other any time soon since the reasons they both seem to be pushing on myself and you are so hard to counter because the basis of the arguments is very flawed.
closest thing i can find to a readslist in ilario's ISO
actually lime coke is my strongest townread in terms of actual confidence about his alignment, but i think nanook has been ~objectively~ townier lolstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:50 pm i wont be able to post much tonight but ill have some time to post/look into the spew tomorrow. nanook is my strongest townread followed by lime coke followed by alexa but i havent sorted my thoughts out all that much beyond that
i could just as easily reference games where alison was correct about her reads to make her reads look better in this game as a resultstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:43 pmthat doesn't feel like a totally fair comparison since:alexa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:38 pmalison had DF and FC as scum in the hydra gameilario wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 pm This’ll probs intensify giras tinfoil of me but meh: I’m pretty torn on wilgy. Mostly cos alison and Alexa who I both strongly tr have very opposite views of his alignment. I’ve only played with him once and after skimming his iso I don’t feel too strongly either way, I don’t think he’s where I would personally go today but he is noticeably more talkative this game compared to last when he was being pushed as a cw close to eod, but idk if that means anything
A. alison had no meta on DF or FC (to my knowledge)
B. alison barely got to read the hydra game, but she clearly read more of this game
im not even saying that we need to sheep alison, just that this is a weak way to discredit her read
that doesn't feel like a totally fair comparison since:alexa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:38 pmalison had DF and FC as scum in the hydra gameilario wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:37 pm This’ll probs intensify giras tinfoil of me but meh: I’m pretty torn on wilgy. Mostly cos alison and Alexa who I both strongly tr have very opposite views of his alignment. I’ve only played with him once and after skimming his iso I don’t feel too strongly either way, I don’t think he’s where I would personally go today but he is noticeably more talkative this game compared to last when he was being pushed as a cw close to eod, but idk if that means anything
the spicier flashwagon is falcon tbhNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:22 pm Anyways we're flash wagoning dizzy, right?
i dont have a point of meta to compare him from but i dont really think he's posting like a wolf that's about to go over. he cares more about making it known how wrong you are than he does about changing the direction of the chop and i think that's >rand town behaviorNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:51 pmHe feels similar to a recent scum game and vague threadstate reasons relating to how it was handled when myself and then mac started calling him mafiastaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:49 pm nobody has been able to provide me with any reasons for why wilgy is a wolf and the thread has gotten weirdly quiet and boring since he became the leading wagon, so i honestly think he's probably going to flip town and the wolves are just biding their time until the day ends
the pushes against him dont even come off as that wolf-motivated to me, i just think theyre more likely wrong than not lolstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:49 pm nobody has been able to provide me with any reasons for why wilgy is a wolf and the thread has gotten weirdly quiet and boring since he became the leading wagon, so i honestly think he's probably going to flip town and the wolves are just biding their time until the day ends
i think that youre like 70% wolf 30% town right now, if that helps you visualize how im perceiving youGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:07 pmi mean you're voting me and the way you're talking about me makes it feel like you think my behavior is significantly more likely scum aligned than notstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:01 pmi think that you very well could be town that is struggling to get your head into the game, but your approach to this game and your mindset in this game also happen to align with how i would expect a wolf to be playing. i have an absence of reasons to townread you and im not particularly convinced that your pushes are coming from a sincere place (like the one on ilario that youre making right now), so i don't know why i should consider you to be a lost town even if it's still plausibleGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 pmno you know what i'm actually annoyed, why do you think i'm more likely to be struggling to come up with stances as mafia than as town? why do you think me being lost as town is not plausible here?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:34 pm also i dont really agree that it would be "trivially easy" to fake a concrete worldview in this game, because this game is full of extremely strong players that are generally extremely difficult to push on. i imagine that most wolves would be floundering in this position and keeping their cards close to their chest, or they would just be making a couple of townreads but not really making any effort to push on people or assert their reads, all of which aligns with how youve been playing
i think that you very well could be town that is struggling to get your head into the game, but your approach to this game and your mindset in this game also happen to align with how i would expect a wolf to be playing. i have an absence of reasons to townread you and im not particularly convinced that your pushes are coming from a sincere place (like the one on ilario that youre making right now), so i don't know why i should consider you to be a lost town even if it's still plausibleGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:55 pmno you know what i'm actually annoyed, why do you think i'm more likely to be struggling to come up with stances as mafia than as town? why do you think me being lost as town is not plausible here?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:34 pm also i dont really agree that it would be "trivially easy" to fake a concrete worldview in this game, because this game is full of extremely strong players that are generally extremely difficult to push on. i imagine that most wolves would be floundering in this position and keeping their cards close to their chest, or they would just be making a couple of townreads but not really making any effort to push on people or assert their reads, all of which aligns with how youve been playing
do you think the same thing doesnt apply to ilario, though? just from memory i can recall him naming multiple players as "innocent childs" a few pages back and implying theyre basically confirmed town, so i don't really understand why your read on him is: "he isn't taking stances" and i would find it helpful if you elaboratedGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:41 pmi think i've taken stances and have made an effort to read people even if i've been reserved in throwing out my judgments because i feel having a slam dunk scum read on day 1 is going to be unlikelystaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:33 pmhow would you describe playing in a "laid back" way if it isn't not having a coherent worldview and not being caught up with the game? fwiw i don't even think it's wolfy for you to be playing in a "laid back way", i just feel that your struggle to really get invested in this game could be related to your alignment, because even the posts that you made yesterday while you were following along with the game felt kind of strained to me, and like you didn't know what angles to takeGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:27 pmidon't even really think i've been that laid back though, i was following along fine yseterday, found myself without a concrete worldview today which is trivial to fake), cam home early, passed out, and am only getting around to reading up nowstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:21 pmyou being laid back felt less like a decision that you consciously made at the beginning of the game and more like a decision that you were forced into based on your struggles to get into the game, though
somewhat disappointed you don't seem to understand how i play if you're town but meh
for example, you just said that you think ilario is a wolf because he "isn't taking stances", but wouldn't you argue that the same thing applies to how you're playing in this game? why is it wolfy specifically for ilario to not take many concrete stances but not wolfy for you to take many concrete stances?
i also think this conversation is probably not going to go anywhere useful
well i already did and nobody answered me, so that's why im asking on the other end of the spectrum lolEsooa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:40 pmask someone why his posting is wolfystaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:39 pmdo u mind explaining why you think wilgy is town?Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:38 pm man I have no interest in an inpending EoD where Mac is going to fling shit around and it happens to be directed at me, I would just ask him about his read but I know I'll get nothing out of him
I'm gonna just go, Wilgy reads are super blatantly bad in this thread
do u mind explaining why you think wilgy is town?Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:38 pm man I have no interest in an inpending EoD where Mac is going to fling shit around and it happens to be directed at me, I would just ask him about his read but I know I'll get nothing out of him
I'm gonna just go, Wilgy reads are super blatantly bad in this thread
how would you describe playing in a "laid back" way if it isn't not having a coherent worldview and not being caught up with the game? fwiw i don't even think it's wolfy for you to be playing in a "laid back way", i just feel that your struggle to really get invested in this game could be related to your alignment, because even the posts that you made yesterday while you were following along with the game felt kind of strained to me, and like you didn't know what angles to takeGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:27 pmidon't even really think i've been that laid back though, i was following along fine yseterday, found myself without a concrete worldview today which is trivial to fake), cam home early, passed out, and am only getting around to reading up nowstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:21 pmyou being laid back felt less like a decision that you consciously made at the beginning of the game and more like a decision that you were forced into based on your struggles to get into the game, though
somewhat disappointed you don't seem to understand how i play if you're town but meh
i deserved that honestlyLime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:20 pmstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:19 pmanother successful pocket :PLime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:04 pmJust your recent string of posts and re-thinking things which look like normal town thought processes from you and per usual "taking stances" that I was mentioning earlier.
[VOTE: SPF] aubergine
you being laid back felt less like a decision that you consciously made at the beginning of the game and more like a decision that you were forced into based on your struggles to get into the game, though
yeah alright, i thought that it was weird that you were changing your positioning in such a blatant way but i think it makes sense for you to want to take mac/nook's reads into consideration and i think the way youve gone about doing it is actually town indicative for you, so i dont really have any more questions about italexa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:08 pmmac can wild out, but nook agrees too - nook has pretty accurate reads as town and busses as wolf from what i've seen so that helps. also, this doesn't feel like a bus to me from nook because there's like.. no interaction? if it was W/W i'd expect them to theater it in some way like he did with luckbox but it feels like nook calling wilgy a wolf then wilgy just kinda avoiding himstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:58 pmthis might not be fair for me to say but i feel like youre kind of rushing to concede to mac's solve in this post? i don't really think it makes you wolfy and it actually might be towny for you to shift your reads so easily, but saying: "jk, my townreads on wilgy and fingersplints were fake, actually" immediately after mac wolfreads them is really odd timing
when there's people i'm less familiar with but who frequent the syndicate a lot (like wilgy/finger in this scenario, but this applies to any game when i'm not as familiar with some people as others), i tend to let others' i townread or respect read them. i had a couple small town pings but my strong townreads are LC/illario/dizzy/Mac/esooa (though if Wilgy is W, i wouldn't feel as great about the esooa read, would probably replace with nook)
plus it doesn't hurt that i was the first (?) one to scumread him and i thought his earlier posting was wolfy
anyways bbl in 2 hours im capped
another successful pocket :PLime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:04 pmJust your recent string of posts and re-thinking things which look like normal town thought processes from you and per usual "taking stances" that I was mentioning earlier.
i townlean her, mostly because:MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:07 pmesooa is mafiastaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:00 pmreally? i thought his posts on this page were townier than anything else he's posted all game lol
like maybe not outside of his wolfrange but definitely not something i would consider "bad" - the only part of it that raises my eyebrows is the townread on gira, because i dont really get how nanook got there
people just like her so they don't want to ever push her
what's your read on her? has she done anything particularly town?
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:33 pm fwiw i dont really agree that esooa is obvious town and i think that she's still within her wolfrange (that might just be because ive gotten fooled by her before and im more naturally paranoid about misreading her) but i do agree that her posts over the last page or two are pretty towny - mostly cause i feel like she's playing aimlessly and reactively and she tends to have a specific agenda or path she wants to circle back to as a wolf
i dont think these are concrete reasons to townread esooa, but in the absence of reasons to wolfread her, im not really interested in voting for her. do you have any reasons to wolfread her that arent related to unflipped partner associations?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:39 pm oh also, i mindmelded with esooa about a specific fingersplints posting being towny within the same ~60 seconds, and i know that mindmelds are easily fakeable by wolves (cause they can use their TMI to point out towny posts pretty easily), but i thought the specific timing of our mindmeld was >rand likely to make her town
really? i thought his posts on this page were townier than anything else he's posted all game lol
actually the more i think about it, this is probably a towntell for alexa, because i think she would care about mac's reads and feel influenced by them as a villager but probably wouldnt feel as obligated to care if she was wolfingstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:58 pmthis might not be fair for me to say but i feel like youre kind of rushing to concede to mac's solve in this post? i don't really think it makes you wolfy and it actually might be towny for you to shift your reads so easily, but saying: "jk, my townreads on wilgy and fingersplints were fake, actually" immediately after mac wolfreads them is really odd timing
this might not be fair for me to say but i feel like youre kind of rushing to concede to mac's solve in this post? i don't really think it makes you wolfy and it actually might be towny for you to shift your reads so easily, but saying: "jk, my townreads on wilgy and fingersplints were fake, actually" immediately after mac wolfreads them is really odd timing
why'd you ask me this if it seemed like you had a wolfread on nanook as well? i had already explained why i was getting pinged by nanook earlier in the thread so this feels like a filler questionEsooa wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:54 pmwhy vote nanookstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:53 pm does anyone here have a scumread that they feel confident about? genuine question
yeah maybe, but i played with you in the epicmafia themed game where we were both town and (iirc) i didnt really have any issues finding you as town in that game, and your approach didn't ping me in the same way that it's pinging me now. your posts just feel like theyre someone going through the motions of scumhunting and is struggling to keep their head above waterGira wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:50 pmreally has been a long time since we've played together, huhstaypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:01 pm @Gira -
what's ur view of the game right now? youre one of the players that im actually the most worried about after looking at your ISO, because i feel like your posts are more aimless than most people here and they seem somewhat disconnected from each other, in the sense that you are posting a lot of observations that sound good on a surface-level but they dont really seem to be forming into a cohesive worldview
i dont wanna come after you too hard because i think it's possible that this game is just hard and youre struggling to get into it, but i would find it helpful if u just gave me a general overview of where ur head is at
that's just...what i do as town
i feel like the wolves would be incentivized to keep LC suspicious of me for as long as possible, especially since this is the type of game where i anticipate that the wolves might feel boxed in and struggle to land on concrete pushes. im not really sure how wilgy usually plays as a wolf but if this is TMI, then it's extremely brazen TMI that doesn't really benefit his team in any wayDrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 4:09 pmI disagree with it being useless. I feel like both you and SPF are solid out of POE for now because of it.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:57 pmBy the way the other thing that kinda kills me is that the reason I got super excited last night was because it was the fact that reading someone's mafia game and using what I learned actually fucking worked for once for me and I actually had a mafia member immediately.Lime Coke wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:44 pmThere were a bit of times that I was kind of wavering in my tunnel on her, specifically the "you shouldn't have to be townreading me to try to work with me since that puts you into a conf-bias" post. Plus Alison mentioning that SPF responding with anger being town indicative for her is a decent point as well. At this rate I don't think she's mafia as much as I was last night.
I can't tell if it's me bitching out on scumreading her, or I was just wrong originally.
Also running out of confident enough options to vote out on Day 1.
Now it's kind of pointing out that it was kind of useless and I'm salty over it.
You believed in your read making you town and I believe SPF's reaction to be towny.
which post did u get pinged by?ilario wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:33 amHmmmm it was a mixture of a shrug poe vote due to me having a bunch of trs + one of ur recent posts pinging me a little
remove falcon from this list and replace him with alexa (and maybe replace wilgy with dyslexicon as well) and i agree with it
yeah true, but dizzy's posts felt distinct to me in that i felt he was getting the most reads out of everyone who was posting within the first few pagesAlison wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:40 amLots of people didn't struggle to make reads. They can't all have TMI.staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:52 pmi tend to be suspicious of people with perspectives that i can't understand. i felt frustrated reading the first 2 pages because of how bland and NAI everything was coming off to me, and you making a post with 4 townreads in such a null threadstate felt like a potential indication that the reason youre not struggling to make reads is because you have TMIDyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:50 pmWhy do you worry about that?staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:48 pmhow did dizzy come off as being "much more careful about his reads" when he posted a list of 4 townreads (or potential townreads) on page 2? the fact that he was getting so many reads so quickly is exactly why i was worried about him lol
I'm getting tons of reads and also none.
Seems normal, in my humble opinion.
