The Syndicate

do we have a nightchat?

yeah it's too late

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:57 pm Ugh I want drwilgy again

me too, but literally ALL of you moved off of him and are forcing me to choose between jagged and anne lol

also, on the contrary, i think nutella's push on anne is one of the towniest things she's done today

[VOTE: jaggedjimmyjay] aubergine

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:52 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:51 pm the NAA wagon completely disappearing is actually kind of interesting
It's really not

why'd u ignore my post about who the mafia are? who are ur top scumreads rn?

the NAA wagon completely disappearing is actually kind of interesting

most likely gonna end up on wilgy though

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:48 pm Tbh I would be content with a wagon back on naa again if anyone wants to go there

i could prolly be talked into a NAA wagon because his posts at this EOD are weird

the wilgy wagon looks pretty pure, even tho im not sure if that means much in a game like this

@NotAnAxehole - who are the mafia?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:42 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:02 pm Can I get a brief summary of the main wagons so that I can attempt to weigh in on stuff?
This post in particular is pretty bad given the context of the rest of his iso

why's that?

oh i see the case now nvm

not to take credit, but didn't the MR wagon start because of my read on him?

maybe i missed something in the last few pages

who do u wanna kill, illario?

leetic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:33 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:31 pm i have gotten the impression that jagged is struggling to make more holistically focused posts - he posts a lot of observations that generally Sound Good, but i am finding it more difficult than usual to see how those observations inform and shape his worldview, and i feel like i am unable to see the gears moving in his brain in a similar way that ive seen them move in previous games. when im a wolf, i know that i struggle to make posts with a "wide" scope, and i have theorized that jagged is a wolf going through a similar struggle. i don't think he's the most optimal d1 chop, though
I've been seeing a bit of hedginess from you, too - can you give me a list of reads you feel confident on?

yes. i think that you, illario, cassandra, marmot, and lime coke are all villagers.

i think that nutella, falcon, and iaafr are also villagers with slightly less confidence. (if there's a wolf in there, it's probably iaafr.) i'm hedging because i'm making a point to talk specifically about the players that i don't have a good grasp on

im mafia uwu

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:30 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:28 pm i could be wrong about this, but i think that as a general principle, anne is more likely to get frustrated and demotivated with games as a wolf than as a villager. i can distinctly recall her outright giving up before as a wolf, but i'm not sure if i've ever seen her give up as a villager. the fact that she appears to have no interest in playing this game is ARGUABLY wolf-indicative for her

but what i dont understand is how so many people without the same meta as me are suspicious of her as well - my thoughts about her are similar to NAA in the sense that i think she ~fits~ as a possible wolf, but im dumbfounded by where the suspicion is coming from
She can get demotivated as town too. Her activity basically tanked during Champs but Different after her efforts got shit on by everyone.

actually i vaguely remember that happening, so you and cassandra are probably right about the meta not being accurate

i have gotten the impression that jagged is struggling to make more holistically focused posts - he posts a lot of observations that generally Sound Good, but i am finding it more difficult than usual to see how those observations inform and shape his worldview, and i feel like i am unable to see the gears moving in his brain in a similar way that ive seen them move in previous games. when im a wolf, i know that i struggle to make posts with a "wide" scope, and i have theorized that jagged is a wolf going through a similar struggle. i don't think he's the most optimal d1 chop, though

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:27 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:26 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:25 pm I have decided more strongly that I actively want to flip anne based on a couple things in the last couple pages
can you talk about that a bit more please?
was debating whether to hold this til d2 but

iaafr is blatantly teamed with her

i am extremely interested in this read

i could be wrong about this, but i think that as a general principle, anne is more likely to get frustrated and demotivated with games as a wolf than as a villager. i can distinctly recall her outright giving up before as a wolf, but i'm not sure if i've ever seen her give up as a villager. the fact that she appears to have no interest in playing this game is ARGUABLY wolf-indicative for her

but what i dont understand is how so many people without the same meta as me are suspicious of her as well - my thoughts about her are similar to NAA in the sense that i think she ~fits~ as a possible wolf, but im dumbfounded by where the suspicion is coming from

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:25 pm I have decided more strongly that I actively want to flip anne based on a couple things in the last couple pages

can you talk about that a bit more please?

and also yes, i recall wilgy making perfect sense in the other game(s) ive played with him, so the stuff he's doing right now is clearly a stylistic choice

i think that wilgy is the type of player that people might find easy to push on regardless of his alignment, and i also would be lying if i said that ive gotten anything alignment indicative out of his posts

the real reason that im voting for him is because he has a vested interest in maintaining an active presence in this game, but he does not appear to have a vested interest in solving the game. when someone cares a lot about a game but that "caring" doesn't translate to any visible scumhunting, then it can be indicative of the person playing in a wolf mindset

unfortunately i have also reached the conclusion that jagged might be a wolf, but not sure if i want to go there on d1

@Sloonei - if you're available, it would be really helpful to hear any snaptakes on jagged that you have

iaafr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:17 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:16 pm i am not asking this facetiously: does anybody have any reasons to scumread anne or notanaxehole that don't boil down to: "They Aren't Towny"? if reasons have been posted in the last few pages, then i haven't gotten to see them yet
naa's open survivalism does not feel like the town version, least not one I've ever seen

he feels less chaotic than the one towngame ive seen from him, but i think that might be because it seems like he took what illario said about him toward the beginning of the game to heart regardless of his alignment, and seems to have been playing w/the criticisms against his play in mind. im not sure that him acting different is scummy within itself, cause i think the circumstances of this game mean that he would act differently regardless of his alignment

and if i cast that aside, i dont really take any issue with his posts? it's true that he isn't towny, so he could be mafia, but i'm just looking for something more

i am not asking this facetiously: does anybody have any reasons to scumread anne or notanaxehole that don't boil down to: "They Aren't Towny"? if reasons have been posted in the last few pages, then i haven't gotten to see them yet

my boss let me out of work early (god bless) so im fully here now until the EOD

what's up?

i'm not crazy about MR's response to me (because the post was filled with a bit too much bravado - he didnt actually address the concern that i had about him and just posted a more generalized rebuttal of why he thought that he was being voted) even though i don't find it that difficult to imagine him being town

i'll be back in like an hour, and i'm gonna park my vote on [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine because i dont like how difficult it has been to build momentum against his slot

@nutella - any particular reason why your presence has been so low today? not an accusation per se, but i feel like you usually have more to say/have more thoughts that swing back and forth, whereas your play today has felt pretty subdued

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:02 pm
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:50 pm Voting NAA is basically a policy yeet for me, since regardless of alignment NAA should never be allowed to end game.
LC town.

Don’t know if that is “consensus”

why is LC towny for that post?

jagged, if you have a post to spare, i would find it helpful if you gave a quick view of how you're looking at the game and what your immediate POE currently looks like. one thing about your play in this game that seems distinct from the other games i've played with you is that you seem to be making less posts that consider things from a holistic/"POE" perspective, and i'm curious about your broader view of the game

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:05 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:46 pm Why is Nanook town
Perhaps a more productive way to frame this question:

What’s the fundamental difference with respect to interpreting alignment between Nanook and NAA in this Day 1?

the best answer i can give without going back to nanook's ISO is simply: "tone/motivation" - it felt like nanook had a drive to push his reads forward when he was posting earlier in the day, whereas it seems like NAA has lost that drive, even if i don't think that necessarily reflects on his alignment

i'm open to considering both NAA and nanook as wolves, but i suppose i'm looking for a reason to be suspicious of them that isn't simply: "they aren't towny", and i don't feel like anyone has provided that type of reasoning yet

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:04 pm Dear SPF,

Please refer to my opening post in this game.

Best,

Radishes

Dear Master Radishes,

I took a look at your opening post, but it has raised more questions than answers:

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:51 am i am mafia uwu

Please advise for the next steps.

Best regards,

Staypositivefriend

idk what people have against salad, i think it can be pretty good if u use the right dressing

wasting one of my posts just to flex on the people who have already hit postcap

actually, i guess ill be the change i want to see in the world

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

my vote will probably land in drwilgy/mac/master radishes/and MAYBE NAA but im not really crazy about any of the wagons right now

the notanaxehole wagon is whatever. i think that he could be a wolf solely through POE but i dont think anyone in this game has actually stated a reason to wolfread him - it feels like the definition of a shrug chop

personally i would give dizzy another day or two to see if he towntells

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm It did cross my mind that anne's woe-is-me posts about not enjoying the game could be a wifomy "wolf wouldn't openly say this" gambit, she did lean into it slightly overmuch i thought

i have a similar concern about anne. i actually got some townpings from her when she was explaining her reasoning for scumreading me earlier in the day, but i think that her being demotivated and fed up with the game is >rand likely to come from her as a wolf. i dont think i feel comfortable making a scumread on that basis, though

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:14 am
ilario wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:10 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 am Mac's story doesn't feel like a lie? When mafia lie about mechanics they tend to either keep it simple ('I'm a cop') or overly complex ('I'm a cop on Nights that fall within the fibonacci sequence but I only get a result if its a 3P who has activated their ability and I get a double cop on N1'). Mac's story is specific in a different way ('after 26 hours I got fed up and used it') that is unlikely to be fabricated.

Or it is just a clever lie I guess, which is also a possibility because uh we're starting to reach peak 'confirmed town' in a game that's supposedly not bastard, so I can only imagine the power Mafia have here.
It doesn’t have to be a lie for him to be mafia. I don’t have any gripes with the claim I have gripes with how he used his role. And idc if he waited 26 hours I’m sure mac would see the value in having his slot cleared especially when people were already wary of him at the start of the game, especially when he has the ability to carry this game himself if he became clear and tried. What does clearing falcon achieve for town? I’ve seen falcon cleared one game before and he just proceeded to stop caring about the game and essentially 5 posted every day phase, it was a bad decision by mac if he’s town to clear falcon over himself considering ive heard falcon is pretty easy to read from others and the fact that falcon is gonna sheep Mac regardless despite being the clear and i think too highly of Mac to think he would make a bad play like that whilst simultaneously having a poe that I have an immense amount of trouble seeing of having any sense to it. He essentially has me and 2 slots who I have clearing interactions with on his poe, it’s just incredibly strange to believe that he legitimately believes me being scum with either dizzy or Cassandra makes sense based on the interactions I’ve had with both slots.
Counterpoint: it sounds exactly like Mac to get bored of waiting and make a snap decision.

You might be right of course. I do think someone amongst the 'clears' could easily be lying or else Mafia have extra PR power.

this post from master radishes pinged me because it felt like an unnatural observation. it doesn't make a ton of sense to say that "someone amongst the clears could easily be lying" when the only 'clears' were illario/leetic (whom MR was addressing this post to) and arguably falcon. MR is shooting down the suggestion that mac could be a wolf based on his claim while suggesting that "someone might be lying", but the only reality where someone is lying AND mac is town is a reality where illario/leetic are wolves together

it just felt like one of those reasonable sounding observations that wolves like to make that doesn't actually hold up to scrutiny when taken with the context of the game. i dont like it

this might go w/out saying but i buy that falcon is town regardless of mac's alignment based on falcon's posts on this page

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:39 am Hypertown

Marmot - Town
cassandra - Probably still my top townread, I had a moment of concern, but that was an overreaction on my part.

Hypotown

ilario / leetic - Both ilario/leetic have trended upward for me. I think part of it is I've been convinced by others. Part of it is their handling of Mac's claim.
nutella - She was the first one to lay a stake down on Mac/falcon, and while she's been a little sparse, she's been townie enough,
Master Radishes - Not much content to read, and yet I mildly read him town for his confidence.
Lime Coke - Nothing new
NotAnAxehole - Post-capped, nothing new
JaggedJimmyJay - Still doesn't feel great with how he's explaining his reads, but I do really feel like he's letting the game move forward without being a commanding voice, while also attempting to contribute.
falcon45ca - Townread because of Mac's clear.
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Post-capped. Similarly to spf, I'm experiencing recency bias. Also, his tmi thing wert ilario/leetic, was weirdly handleded.

POE

anne - Nothing new postwise. Dropping here because I think she was a bit too high to begin with, and I gave her too much credit for her town-claiming monologue.
Dyslexicon - He's been playing like Mac. Farts. Gays. And whatnot. Nothing townreadable.
MacDougall - He didn't handle his claim very well. I don't think it's a great claim, though I guess it's believable enough. But it isn't clearing, nor is any of Mac's behavior otherwise.
iaafr - Apparently iaafr post-capped and I missed it. I will try to reread him when I get a chance. He still exists in my POE because he hasn't done anything memorable since my last readlist.

DrWilgy - Basically no content.
Sloonei - Literally no content.

@Sloonei good to see you, I look forward to your thoughts. I keep my online status visible for the same reason.

@cassandra I believe you have 108 posts to stop (because you had 8 Day 0), so you have 7 more to spare.

where do i exist on this list?

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:05 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:04 am
Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:01 am Mac's story doesn't feel like a lie? When mafia lie about mechanics they tend to either keep it simple ('I'm a cop') or overly complex ('I'm a cop on Nights that fall within the fibonacci sequence but I only get a result if its a 3P who has activated their ability and I get a double cop on N1'). Mac's story is specific in a different way ('after 26 hours I got fed up and used it') that is unlikely to be fabricated.

Or it is just a clever lie I guess, which is also a possibility because uh we're starting to reach peak 'confirmed town' in a game that's supposedly not bastard, so I can only imagine the power Mafia have here.

It can be truth, and Mac can be mafia fwiw
I realise this. But occam's razor and all that.

how does "occam's razor" point to mac being town based on the logic that you laid out? doesn't occam's razor point to: "mac's claim is not reflective of his alignment"?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:56 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:42 am marmot has become one of my strongest townreads. funny how that happens
If you're still here can you explain this?

Spoiler: show
I have a reason to townread him but I kind of want to hear from someone else that I usually trust?

there is a "power vacuum" in the thread, in the sense that i don't get the impression that anyone is particularly trying to make themselves the leader or boss everyone else around. in the absence of a real leader, i feel like marmot has stepped up and become one of the most commanding and thoughtful voices in the game without actually trying to - he has spearheaded a lot of the recent conversations in this game while coming off as being completely comfortable and relaxed in the thread in a way that i suspect he might struggle to emulate as a wolf

it's partially a threadstate read and partially a vibe read. i am currently buying what he's selling

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:54 am illario (and leetic, by extension), marmot, nutella, iaafr, lime coke, and probably cassandra are my current strongest townreads.

i feel pretty good about illario, leetic, and marmot

i have some lingering paranoia about nutella/iaafr but i think there's 1 wolf in them maximum (cause i suspect their game would look quite different if they rand'd W/W with each other)

dont think it's outside the realm of possibility for either lime coke or cassandra to just be playing a competent wolf game but i think theyve both towntold quite a bit at individual moments so im rolling with them being town for now

the names immediately below that would probably be nanook (who im having some tinfoil over primarily because of recency bias) and falcon (who im accepting as "greenchecked" for now)

ideally, i'm misreading one name in this list maximum. i also probably dont want to chop anne or jagged today for ~reasons~ even though i dont find it that difficult to see a world where one them is a wolf

there's probably like a couple of wolves in the low-posting names and then another wolf or two buried deeper in the active posters

good enough for d1

illario (and leetic, by extension), marmot, nutella, iaafr, lime coke, and probably cassandra are my current strongest townreads.

i feel pretty good about illario, leetic, and marmot

i have some lingering paranoia about nutella/iaafr but i think there's 1 wolf in them maximum (cause i suspect their game would look quite different if they rand'd W/W with each other)

dont think it's outside the realm of possibility for either lime coke or cassandra to just be playing a competent wolf game but i think theyve both towntold quite a bit at individual moments so im rolling with them being town for now

the names immediately below that would probably be nanook (who im having some tinfoil over primarily because of recency bias) and falcon (who im accepting as "greenchecked" for now)

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