The Syndicate

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:43 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:41 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.
if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?
I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]
right, but you're making it sound like you think it would be beneficial for you to die before the f3. at the same time, you made a move at the end of yesterday that guaranteed that you would survive for another day. i'm just curious if dying in this game is something that you actually want to happen
Won't try to stop it if it's written on the walls is all

but you did try to stop it, by putting the majority on arete. that's my point :P

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:10 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.
if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?
I don't have to fight tooth and nail to type out [ vote ] Arete [ /vote ]

right, but you're making it sound like you think it would be beneficial for you to die before the f3. at the same time, you made a move at the end of yesterday that guaranteed that you would survive for another day. i'm just curious if dying in this game is something that you actually want to happen

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:22 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:21 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:17 pm Open question: How about we let Aroot choose the chop for today?

She is confirmed town. She can post.
no
Because?

half because they wolfread me and half because i dont really agree with letting individual people "lead" the chops in general

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:17 pm Open question: How about we let Aroot choose the chop for today?

She is confirmed town. She can post.

no

@dizzy - ah yeah, i did misunderstand your second point. that particular point doesn't resonate with me because if i'm a wolf and i'm trying to hold back my TMI or sound like i'm speaking from a village POV, then it's common for me to say stuff like: "this looks real" or "this feels real" instead of "this is real!", and i assume that's probably what vulgard was doing in that post regardless of c4's alignment. the differences in how he talks about c4 and how he talks about other players is a point of interest to me though, if you have any more thoughts about that

also no, i understand your perspective about c4 - i "see" what you're getting at now, it's not just the type of argument that tends to resonate with me. shrug

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:59 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:54 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:52 pmWell if you're town, do you really trust me to vote correctly in F3?
Uh.

I don't understand this question. That depends on what correctly is, and it depends who is in F3 and it depends on how the game looks then and also how much work you are willing to put in.
I'm saying that I don't think I have a great reason to fight for survival.

if this is the case, why even bother making a self-preservation vote at the end of yesterday? why not let yourself die?

mind giving me an overview of where your head is at, c4? who do you townread the most confidently? what are you worried about? who's the wolf?

@Dyslexicon -

the framing of c4's question is actually a bit scummy when you put it in that light, yeah. it could be a potential perspective slip to frame the question as: "does dyachei take criticism against their WOLF game personally" and not just "does dyachei take criticism against their game personally" when c4 appeared to think that dyachei was a villager at the time

it does feel a little nitpicky but i understand what youre getting at. im somewhat lukewarm about the point regarding vulgard - i dont think that vulgard framing c4 in a positive/authentic light is inherently indicative of partner interaction

nice x-post lol

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:38 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:33 pm the one thing i dont understand about this day so far is why zack dying prompted nutella to become suspicious of outed wolf. why does zack dying in this scenario increase outed wolf's wolf equity when zack mostly townread him?
i have been suspicious of visor since the night before last, it wavered on and off yesterday but his tone at sod brought it back

mm sure, but you specifically pointed to zack dying as something that reflects badly on visor, and i don't really understand where that thought comes from. do you mind clarifying it for me?

@outed wolf - is nutella a villager?

i actually thought that c4's pop in at the end of yesterday was villagery right up until the moment where he made the self-preservation vote. i townread the fact that he was like "yeah w/e i get why you would wanna kill me" and made no attempt to save himself, ....but then he did lol

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:33 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:27 am zack, is outed wolf just a villager? give me your guidance
just because visor and i have been playing with each other for a decade and have vaguely similar styles and are both in the 18-65 age demographic doesn't mean we read each other with a stunning degree of accuracy or anything. if anything it used to be the opposite.

I think he's a villager, I don't think he'd push dya like that as w/w, but if you're looking to absolve yourself of responsibility and have me tell you it's a lock, sorry. I could be wrong. He's a good wolf and it has literally been years since I have any half-relevant personal experience with his wolf game. You have mentioned several times that he feels off and different to you, and I'm not sure what you mean, he seems pretty much like normal visor to me.

his posts where he was buttering me up talking about what a spectacular, wonderful, tactically brilliant nightkill I would have been made me raise my eyebrows a bit but shrug.

^^zack's read on outed wolf toward the EOD, for posterity

the one thing i dont understand about this day so far is why zack dying prompted nutella to become suspicious of outed wolf. why does zack dying in this scenario increase outed wolf's wolf equity when zack mostly townread him?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:26 am
dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:37 pm I've been trying to catch up for the better part of an hour. I see I'm getting d1 heat again. As I always do. Because people always forget my d1s tend to suck

I like that sunbae went right to spf's how to read her guide and compared. I think that he might have been a little biased when he looked at it thoguh

I have a gut feeling about alison's alignment. I didn't like her one post but I also don't like that she hasn't come back and tried to solve the game yet

@outed wolf I gave my thoughts on amy but feels like my thoughts count for jack shit as usual

dyachei wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 7:47 pm it's super frustrating to finally rand town in a game with visor and zack and have them not even explain their shitty reads on me
i feel that the frustration in these posts were completely authentic - i have no doubt that dya was frustrated that they were being wolfread so early into the game before they had a chance to really get comfortable, and i think that these posts were dya attempting to get some of the heat off of themselves so that they could get back into the flow of things

after dyachei made that post, here are some of the posts that outed wolf made about dyachei:

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 12:32 am what do you think of dya spf, specifically (not like you agree with arguments others make, whats your interpretation.thoughts on their posts)

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 1:59 am So. Dya then?

Where else we thinking

outed wolf wrote: ↑Wed May 26, 2021 5:28 pm I think dyachei flips wolf most of the time

But we are gonna end up talking about gavial tomorrow if he's alive and doing this song and dance again. Better to bite the bullet and kill him today and move on unless Yall wanna kill dya
if visor is a wolf and they see their wolf partner struggling under early pressure and clearly wanting people to back off, i don't know that he would go out of his way to ask me for my detailed thoughts on dyachei (knowing that i wolfread them at the time), nor would he go out of his way to suggest that dya be the d1 chop or to reiterate that he feels that dyachei will flip wolf most of the time

it just doesnt really feel like a bus to me. and the point where i anticipate that dyachei would ask people to bus them/distance from them came after visor started pushing on them, which makes me feel like visor is a villager that happened to play a fairly big role in concentrating the right amount of momentum against dyachei in the early game

@Dyslexicon - here's a post i made toward the end of yesterday that pushed me into feeling like outed wolf might just be a villager. any thoughts? do you think the point is strong?

also, why does zack dying point to outed wolf being mafia? zack felt fairly strongly that outed wolf was town, yeah? do you think that outed wolf was worried about zack catching him?

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:21 pm [VOTE: outed wolf] aubergine

yeah i think your shit is just fake

your indignance at any implication you would have bussed dya or not killed amy or any other detail is garbo, like you feel entitled to being townread
your turnaround on dya was exaggerated, didn't feel at all natural like the wavering i had on her
your incessant questioning of my reads on the poe/mischops in the last couple phases has been exceedingly performative

i'm not buying it anymore

what prompted you to switch from voting c4 to voting outed wolf? was it because of the fact that he voted you? i'm just wondering because this suspicion against outed wolf seems like something that you've been considering a lot, but you came into the day sounding like c4 was your primary suspect. could you just walk me through your thought process a bit here regarding outed wolf?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:20 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:18 pm i'm gonna have to do a lot of thinking today
That's lame. Have you not had thinking after Aroot flipped?

nah, i almost never think about games during the night - just a personal preference thing to keep myself from getting burned out, lol. i was actually expecting either nutella or outed wolf to die

i'm gonna have to do a lot of thinking today

i still dont really think that c4 is a hit

shrug

my legacy is im gay

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:54 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:52 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:49 pm Here for a few seconds
I don't want me in F3 either
who's the wolf
If I knew I probably wouldn't blank every time my vote asks me "why am I a wolf"

give me the first 2 guesses off the top of ur head

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:49 pm Here for a few seconds
I don't want me in F3 either

who's the wolf

it feels like dizzy is trapped in the cycle of having a low presence and not being very villagery, but having an overinflated sense of how villagery his actions and his behavior in this game have actually been

so when he comes into this thread he spends most of the time defending himself and getting upset about not being townread even though he hasn't towntold quite as much as he believes that he has

this is a mindset that i've gotten stuck in as a villager like a million fucking times and i kind of think that it's the mindset that dizzy is in as well

just giving some insight into why i think dizzy is more likely a villager than not

[VOTE: arete] aubergine

mmm

i feel a little bit frozen and it's because i've concluded that the last wolf probably really is in c4/arete but im struggling to figure out which one to vote. i should probably trust myself and vote arete but it just feels iffy

[VOTE: bronana] aubergine

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:05 pm @staypositivefriend Y U vote Visor?

oh i totally forgot my vote was still on him lol

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:05 pm spf's read on c4 is strange to me, I don't think I actually understand it

i think the strongest reasons to townread c4 are the fact that dyachei came into the game immediately declaring that c4 was being more villagery than he was in CoV, and then proceeded to defend that point fairly passionately against sunbae. some of the dyachei/c4 interactions (where they start interacting more aggressively) also look fairly non-partnery, even though they aren't outside of the range of a solid wolf. i also think that vulgard clearly wanted marl to claim with a guilty on c4, and i dont know why vulgard would set his own partner up like that when c4 was positioned reasonably well in the game at that point. i also think that c4's posting, generally, has been villagery even though it hasn't blown me out of the water

strongest reasons to wolfread c4 is the fact that there's a bit of synchronicity between dya and c4 turning on each other - they both turned on each other at roughly the same time and in a way that aligns with how i would expect wolves to distance from each other. there's also the fact that he seems completely stuck with where to take his reads or his solving

i dont really feel like he's a hit but i also dont townread him that confidently and ive been wondering if i just got pocketed by him. make of that what you will

arete, if you had full control of the next 3 chops, who would you chop and in what order?

i dont really know what dizzy's scumgame is like but his posts this morning were very villagery

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:07 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:58 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm I kind of have the fear
me too but i think/hope if it's not arete it's almost always spf
do you realistically think that there's anything i can do that would make you feel comfortable about me being town?
idk

(flip green)

no but seriously, some of your posts *have* felt good to me, but it doesnt stick. i really really hope arete is just it :/

shrug. i do too but i'm worried about the direction this game is heading in if aren't isn't "it". i wish there was some way that i could just make you read me correctly but i don't really know how to accomplish that

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:01 pm Oh, is EoD tomorrow?

no it's in 2 hours - i think theyre implying that they'll be able to make a wallpost after death

i am p concerned that arete is a villager but i realistically dont know where else i would feel comfortable going today

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:57 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:55 pm I kind of have the fear
me too but i think/hope if it's not arete it's almost always spf

do you realistically think that there's anything i can do that would make you feel comfortable about me being town?

Arete wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:52 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:49 pm
Arete wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:39 pm I'm sort of mrrr about SPF being like 'arete hasn't been digging into my alignment very much, which means they aren't really trying to solve my slot' when the entire reasoning behind my reads is PoE

(also I did in fact look into her allegedly-clearing Dya progression and didn't find it clearing, but)
i mean, my reads are largely based on POE too, i just havent really gotten the impression that youre super worried about whether or not im town?

like i do think that you have a solid chance at being the last wolf, but i'm also very worried about being wrong. i don't sense a similar sense of worry or concern from your end of things
I mean yeah I'm not super worried about being wrong because I've known for most of the day that I was probably getting voted out today and so my reads mostly don't actually "matter" in the sense of affecting the chances of the last wolf being voted out? like I feel like when I phrase it that way it sounds like I'm saying that I don't care about solving, which is false, but like, I don't expect that me reading you as a wolf-by-PoE, if you are a villager, is going to particularly influence anyone

that's still a super bad phrasing that completely fails to communicate what I'm actually trying to communicate

weh

on the contrary, if you feel like you're going to end up dying today, then isn't even more important to leave behind a solid legacy that you can feel good and confident about?

Arete wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:39 pm I'm sort of mrrr about SPF being like 'arete hasn't been digging into my alignment very much, which means they aren't really trying to solve my slot' when the entire reasoning behind my reads is PoE

(also I did in fact look into her allegedly-clearing Dya progression and didn't find it clearing, but)

i mean, my reads are largely based on POE too, i just havent really gotten the impression that youre super worried about whether or not im town?

like i do think that you have a solid chance at being the last wolf, but i'm also very worried about being wrong. i don't sense a similar sense of worry or concern from your end of things

ive spent all week preparing for an important work meeting/presentation

today was supposed to be the Big Day and i was all ready to present the stuff that i've been working on

and it just got rescheduled to next week

i feel like there's a metaphor there somewhere

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:29 pm @staypositivefriend im sorry this is really dumb but also dizzy's micro wording reads turned out to be right so is there some way you can reassure me that these two things are not perspective slips

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:38 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:07 amif c4 is a villager then he's misreading me for the first time ever.
oh? :P

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:59 am i wouldnt bus dyachei in the way that i did.

they aren't perspective slips, but tbh i don't really know how to reassure you that they aren't other than pointing out that this is just how i talk regardless of my alignment :P i could probably find examples of me using the same language in other games if i looked hard enough

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:26 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:37 am let's fast forward to the part where dizzy comes in and complains about me not having him higher in my POE and me townreading him for it
Yes, it's a bit weird, and I'm going to be a total hypocrite about it too, except not really, cause I'm right, IMO lol.

Cause you ask for the one big reason to town read me. How about me pointing out fucking specific word usage + a mindset slip from Vulgard, that nobody else picked up on. I noticed these two things when reading whatever part of the thread I got to read back then, and I mentioned it in an insecure way, ok. But for real, there's literally no positive sides to me tying a consensus town read to a consensus scum read when there's absolutely no reason to do that and nobody else has that thought. It's also strictly outside my scum meta, as I'm 100 % carry the team where I can and bus my team if I must kind of a player, because that is the true way imo. So I actually think that counts as a pretty big thing. I realise the observation was not given as me screaming it out, but it was a genuine observation that struck me, which I did call out. And I'm super happy and proud of Sunbae for listening and taking it into consideration, cause that is true good town play on his part.

Ironically, not having one big reason to town read you is the reason I'm unsure of you. I know you pointed to your interaction with Dya, but I genuinely don't understand what is clearing about it. I lean towards you believing it is, but I have questions why. I also am frowning upon you suggestion your bus would look like "haha the wheels on the bus go brrrr" cause you're just not that bad of a player. Devils advocate here is that nothing you've done points towards scum necessarily. And you not having one big thing or one more bizarre moment, like Arete and Visor have for example, could also be because of your play style, as you tend to be more flowy and less hard edged in your approach anyway.

So yeah.
You should town read me, but I don't have to town read you basically. =p
But like, I'm working on it. And you're probably town tbh tbh.

acknowledged. your town entitlement makes me wanna villa read you lol

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:53 am I mean, actually, that kind of bothers me. SPF, I'm genuinely a bit ticked off about you thinking that you would bus in a manner of "Haha Dya wolf brrrrr" and expect to get town cred from that. We are not playing level 0 mafia here. TMI bussing is not exactly hard to spot. I don't remember how you bussed in Grasslands, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have that flavor at all.

you seem to be misunderstanding the point. i'm using the "haha Dya wolf brrrrr" argument as hyperbole to bring attention to the fact that my busses as a wolf are typically orchestrated to give me as much towncred as possible. when i bus my partners, i go to great lengths to:

A. make the bus extremely noticeable

B. be extremely loud about the bus

C. hammer home the narrative that me/the person im bussing cant be the same alignment

to give an example of this, i faked an entire angry emotional argument with long con in grasslands (i encouraged him to be mean as possible) just so that the two of wouldn't look teamed with each other. to give another example, i bussed c4 in CoV by voting for him, casing him, and making a big scene about how no one was sheeping my vote about him and how that definitely meant that he was a wolf. the overall trajectory was loud and performative

by contrast, my posts about dyachei in this game are understated by comparison (and not outside of the range of any competent wolf), and that's kinda the point. my trajectory toward dyachei was constant suspicion, constant interrogation, and constant pushing, but it was conducted in a way that was so "quiet" that two players in this game outright didn't remember me pushing dya much at all. there's no flashiness or drama to my push on dyachei, and that alone means that i'm a villager. THAT's the point

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:06 am if nutella and spf are both villagers, KZA didnt make a single read on a wolf

considering that he made 4 reads total (5 if you count the defense of alison), i dont find this super hard to believe lol

bronana wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:54 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:54 am my maximum postcount for today is 420.......blaze it........

Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show

same

my maximum postcount for today is 420.......blaze it........

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:17 am
bronana wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:16 pm please, if I was a wolf I would have either bussed hard yesterday or joined the c4 counter wagon

instead I stayed off wagon and clearly tried to veto the c4 wagon when it got close to dya's, check my posts
bronana wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:22 pm
bronana wrote: ↑Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:03 pm I'm sick of killing villagers because they aren't doing or posting enough

c4 feels like a miss and resolves nothing
few hours before EOD and wagons were getting v close at the time

I would have voted dya at eod if it was necessary but there's no way for me to prove that, obviously. as it stood I didn't need to do anything for dya to die, so I mostly focused on other contingencies. I don't really care about getting the personal glory, I just want to win and make sure the bases are covered.
bronana wrote: ↑Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:32 pm
dyachei wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:49 pm man he was really hedgy on you zack. he clearly wanted you as a mis-elim
like cmon, this was such an obvious pocket attempt, who talks to their wolfbro like this
Weird ass read but I think this sequence shows that Zack said the point off of memory and dove back into ISOS to prove it, and stumbled across the dya post while he was there, and I think he would've already known where that post was as a wolf.

A bit unnecessary by now but it's there.

meh, i maintain the feeling that c4 is villagery after peeking at his ISO again

this read alone shows a higher depth of thought/insight than anything i saw from his wolf game

i feel like all roads are leading me to arete and i dunno what to do about that

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:43 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:41 am i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno
really?

probably not lol

i might actually kill arete and c4 before i would kill dizzy

i dunno

let's fast forward to the part where dizzy comes in and complains about me not having him higher in my POE and me townreading him for it

outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:31 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:28 am
outed wolf wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:02 am why cant he just be tmi-ing you spf?
he could be. i think that dya most likely TMI'd him as a villager in their opening posts, but i would probably immediately vote for him in a f3 scenario, because if he's a wolf then he approached this game with the specific intent to pocket me
okay.

so you think hes a villa, you think im a villa

you have.... dizzy and arete left then in your poe?

(if so - say you're wrong, where do you think you are wrong?)

pretty much

i think that nutella is a villager

i think that youre a villager

i think that bronana is a villager

my instincts are telling me that if im misreading anyone in that pool, it would be bronana (although i do think he's town)

that leaves c4, dyslexicon, arete

i think that dya most likely TMI'd c4 as a villager

i think that dyslexicon has been consistently villagery even though im lacking in the One Big Reason to townread him

i think arete has been villagery but i have a number of concerns about them

if i could chop three people back to back rn, it would probably be arete, dizzy, and c4

....but that feels so wrong now that i've typed it out lol

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