The Syndicate

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:58 pm I wanted to snap vote Sabi in lylo but HK kept saying I was setting up a Sabi miskill no matter what yesterday and it scared me lol

yeah. my biggest failing this game is not finding you town. I'm sorry for that. I should have done better

LOLOL D2 W/W WAGONS LETS GO
@Alison is a flashwagon good when it's on a wolf? asking for a friend

anyways, bye

I'm back at sabi/porscha are town and that's it

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:12 pm Does everyone suss me? :/

probs my fault tbh, it's cool though I'll be town and you'll be cleared

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:33 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:32 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:06 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm lily is your solve then Sabi/TSP after I flip town or are you planning on re-evaluating?
if u flip w i probably kill porscha tomorrow
lol you think porscha has TMI on my alignment and that's why she's defending me?
howl elsewhere

lol no go back to reads school

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:36 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:23 pm do the townie thing and flash wagon esooa you plebs

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:24 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:23 pm do the townie thing and flash wagon esooa you plebs
This is the way

I so desperately want this post to be good

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:07 pm Oh, and, another thing, when I poke him on this earlier, I don't think his PoE can make sense, give actual wolves, like that he should be thinking more about TSP or caring more about me, he just doesn't. He doesn't try to solve or think about things or wolf read people that aren't convenient for him, he just uncaringly threw his vote away. I really can't see HK caring about solving at all this game

I fail to see a reason to wolf read me for something that's been clear since the shitshow on D1 but go off

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:06 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:04 pm lily is your solve then Sabi/TSP after I flip town or are you planning on re-evaluating?
if u flip w i probably kill porscha tomorrow

lol you think porscha has TMI on my alignment and that's why she's defending me?

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:06 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:13 am NONE OF THIS IS SUPPORTED BY ANYTHING I LOOKED FOR BECAUSE I LOOKED FOR NOTHING

current votes:

Santy: neon, porscha, sabi, lily
HK: santy, esooa, risiing
risiinq: HK

does it make MORE sense if two wolves are on me saying "hk is wolf and even if not he has to die" or does it make LESS sense?

I think the longer the game goes the more I can't be a wolf, if I don't go over here today and Santy is town I expect the dialog tomorrow to be "HK was protected, kill him then kill on the santy wagon" but like I've shown today that I'm not someone worth protecting. I haven't participated, haven't solved, haven't done much of anything at all.

Partially b/c I'm lazy and bad, partially because I scored a PS5, and partially because it stops the narrative of "HK was protected" because again, haven't done shit to protect, there's no reason. The wolf team, if I am a wolf, should have been busing me from D2 onward, even D1 after my outburst.

which would indicate to me that either Santy is a hit OR Santy is the "protect risiinq" wagon.

Now if Santy is NOT a hit I think it's more likely that risiinq IS a hit AND ALSO that there's a wolf on the Santy wagon, of which Sabi makes the least sense (watch it be sabi), then Porscha, then probs a tossup between neon/lily, neither of which I really have a read on.

If Santy IS a hit I'm torn. On the one hand having a wolf there makes sense, and it might be Neon then. But having a wolf be off wagon is also fine here as the "off wagon" is the policy chop that's been hanging on for days now.

UGH. I don't think you can say anything concrete if Santy is a hit. I think you can if Santy isn't a hit.

If Santy is a hit I do not think there are two wolves on my wagon. Which I said above.

game is hard, mafia is dumb, etc etc

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:07 am why you don't shut down sabi if they are town:

1. Nobody is listening to Sabi. They file Sabi away into a "town but" box and forget about them until it's needed to pull them out of it.
Sabi has the most posts of anyone in the thread and honestly the least amount of pull outside of me and TSP. Nobody is really following Sabis pushes, unless they are consensus, and nobody for sure is following their defenses. See Jack going over and me leading today.

2. Sabi is highly likely wrong on where the wolf team is. If Sabi were right about any of the wolf team, or were not protecting the wolf team in some way, Sabi would be dead. Instead Sabi is, like I said in point 1, mostly ineffectual, but also pointint in the wrong directions. Sabi also does not appear to be doing wholescale reevaulations of the game and their view on it, until today starts. The wolf team can play the odds Sabi doesn't re-evaluate and instead falls deeper into the "spam things and despair" gameplay they're exhibiting the last two days

3. Sabi and HK form an Alignment Confirmation duo. Inverse of the Difference Check, an Alignment Confirmation is functionally this: When HK flips town Sabi is functionally confirmed town. I've hard town read Sabi for days, and Sabi has been in the "HK is town" corner for days as well. If Sabi is a wolf today is the day Sabi needs to turn the corner, and Sabi needs to start doing it sooner rather than later, so that the HK chop is cemented AND so that Sabis pivot into HK wolfing isn't called into question in the coming max 2 game days.
Likewise, Sabi flipping town functionally confirms HK as town for the same reason. You can't simultaneously argue "HK kills his wolf readers" and also "HK kills his town readers" in the same breath, or even the same game day. It's a juxtaposition that can't be reasonably held.
I was gonna find more reasons from quotes about wolfy things HK has done but there's so much bullshit I'm just gonna quote these two and talk about some of it

A ton of HK's solving posts this game have been meandering longer posts with little conclusion and only the veneer of solving, mostly for self defense. Read the top post and tell me what comes of it. The first half is just him giving reasons why he can't be a wolf, none of which hold up, and the second half is words masquerading as thoughts that does nothing productive in the end. How many times has HK given a definitive wolf read? 90% of the time it's been these things like "I dunno" or just a random PoE put together. The only times he's given an actual wolf read of someone it's not held up at all imo and has mostly been things like nit-picking Risiinq when she was killable, Santy when he was, or Neon earlier and camping it out without much thought. Neon today specifically I don't think someone can believe like HK has considering everything she's posted this game.

The second post shows more of this, how it's mostly just a veneer and self defense. HK says Sabi is wrong on the wolf team so hasn't died, but never cares to extrapolate on actual wolf reads from this. I know this is something he's done a ton this game and I was gonna find more examples but I just can't be bothered to read through his ISO to do that. The first quote is another one, at least. Then the 3rd point which is sorta valid from the perspective that him town makes Sabi more town, in that she's been defending him, but the inverse is literally just not true like how he tries to make it out to be. Sabi correctly town reading HK isn't a reason she doesn't die, that's a reason for her TO die and is directly related to point 2 in his own post (if she was correct, she would be killed), but he's not trying to put these things together, he's writing all his solving so he can get people off his back. Almost everything he's written this game has felt like that imo

I cannot wait for you to go "oops I was wrong"

lily is your solve then Sabi/TSP after I flip town or are you planning on re-evaluating?

thanks
I am enjoying myself

Esooa wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:41 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:13 pm like ok it's less "I think neon is a wolf" and more "I strongly don't think sabi, porscha, or lily are wolves"
also don't understand how you get to this and decide from the PoE presented to you, the most reasonable vote today is Neon

[VOTE: esooa] aubergine

fine, have it your way

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:29 pm legacy :

if hk flips w it should arguably clear most of the cast that's left. the last wolf is probably in porscha/tsp

if hk flips v then tbh idk esooa seems super town and i rly dont think shes a wolf but like knowing my luck she is a wolf and she's gonna make fun of me after this game

so no matter what esooa is town?
I come to the opposite conclusion. I town read you, porscha, and sabi. Leaving the two wolves to be in the other three, neon, esooa, TSP. That's my legacy.

I find it interesting you town read esooa given all she's done for 3 days is push me and I'm going to flip town, so how you get "if HK flips V esooa is lock town" out of that I'll never understand.

anyways, gl everyone, this has been one of the games of all time.

look, everyone is gonna flip town, Alison is the only wolf left.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:16 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:14 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:09 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm like do u all think neon has been wolfy this game?
I do think her play this day has been incredibly wolfy yes. I also think my solve is Neon, TSP, Esooa and that there are two wolves in that bucket. So yeah

Actual footage of me this entire game guys.
it would be a lot cooler if that were true
This is me everyday to be completely honest

:doubt:

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:09 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:54 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm like do u all think neon has been wolfy this game?
I do think her play this day has been incredibly wolfy yes. I also think my solve is Neon, TSP, Esooa and that there are two wolves in that bucket. So yeah

Actual footage of me this entire game guys.

it would be a lot cooler if that were true

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:02 pm why do u think im town, hk

they way you're approaching today seems really organic and not manufactured. For some reason the way you're pushing me is not triggering my "lily needs a mistake to happen' the way others have.

like ok it's less "I think neon is a wolf" and more "I strongly don't think sabi, porscha, or lily are wolves"

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:53 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:25 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:21 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:14 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:11 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:08 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:19 am

It's not sheeping... it's just objectively true. Me or HK need to die today Porscha. That's it. You can't solve the game with both of us alive tomorrow.

I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town.
Yet your expectation is that I should. Interesting.
Should my expectation be to kill myself? I mean sometimes maybe not here though
no, I'm saying your argument to Porscha "I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town" is bullshit when that's exactly what you expect me to do, lay down and take the chop that's coming.
I know I'm town and yet all I'm told is "for the good of the thread" or "we can't solve with you alive" which directly translates into "shut up and take it"

So I'm pointing out the bs
I don't expect you to flip over and die.

I expect town to see the only reasonable outcome is one of us and you give more info.
again you're expecting me to lay down and die. Like flowery words are meaningless. You are straight up saying "HK needs to die to solve the game" which contains, implicitly, shut up and take it

I'm not wrong

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:49 pm like do u all think neon has been wolfy this game?

I do think her play this day has been incredibly wolfy yes. I also think my solve is Neon, TSP, Esooa and that there are two wolves in that bucket. So yeah

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:22 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:14 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:12 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:05 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:02 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:25 pm Votecount asofrn

MacDougall (8) - Esooa, Drwilgz , santygrass, riisinq- , Lilypetal, Achromatic, Porscha, sabiplz
Esooa (4) - Jack, Hollowkatt, MacDougall, Neon
Hollowkatt (1) - Nanook

Another question for everyone

Do you think Esooa here can be pure outside of Mac?
why not?
That's what I'm asking lol
yeah, my answer is why not? it's on you to lay out why you think it can't be
I don't think it can't be... which is the point lol

cool so you're outed then. good for us!

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:21 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:14 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:11 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:08 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:19 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:13 am

Cool than you can just never find me lol
I would say you aren't doing much to help me by continuing on this. I'm open to the idea that the wim isn't important in reading you. But I don't appreciate you acting like I'm in bad faith for trying to wake the players in this game the fuck up, because they are currently mentally spiraling or sheeping the "flipping hk fixes everything!!" idea.

I want more, and I won't stop being fucking annoying and pestering people. Because it's what it takes to get people to stop doing this woe-is-me / there's only option to move this game forward, song and dance.
It's not sheeping... it's just objectively true. Me or HK need to die today Porscha. That's it. You can't solve the game with both of us alive tomorrow.

I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town.
Yet your expectation is that I should. Interesting.
Should my expectation be to kill myself? I mean sometimes maybe not here though
no, I'm saying your argument to Porscha "I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town" is bullshit when that's exactly what you expect me to do, lay down and take the chop that's coming.
I know I'm town and yet all I'm told is "for the good of the thread" or "we can't solve with you alive" which directly translates into "shut up and take it"

So I'm pointing out the bs
I don't expect you to flip over and die.

I expect town to see the only reasonable outcome is one of us and you give more info.

again you're expecting me to lay down and die. Like flowery words are meaningless. You are straight up saying "HK needs to die to solve the game" which contains, implicitly, shut up and take it

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:12 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:05 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:02 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:25 pm Votecount asofrn

MacDougall (8) - Esooa, Drwilgz , santygrass, riisinq- , Lilypetal, Achromatic, Porscha, sabiplz
Esooa (4) - Jack, Hollowkatt, MacDougall, Neon
Hollowkatt (1) - Nanook

Another question for everyone

Do you think Esooa here can be pure outside of Mac?
why not?
That's what I'm asking lol

yeah, my answer is why not? it's on you to lay out why you think it can't be

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:11 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:08 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:19 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:13 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:11 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 am

WiM changing is NAI entirely. But the question is not the problem anyways. It's the way you reply when I try to engage you and explain why it's not relevant lol
Yes. you can tell me it isn't relevant. you can tell me that it's AI for you and then change it back to the concept of wim being nai entirely. it doesn't mean I have to take it at face value and not have my own opinions or continue to challenge it.
Cool than you can just never find me lol
I would say you aren't doing much to help me by continuing on this. I'm open to the idea that the wim isn't important in reading you. But I don't appreciate you acting like I'm in bad faith for trying to wake the players in this game the fuck up, because they are currently mentally spiraling or sheeping the "flipping hk fixes everything!!" idea.

I want more, and I won't stop being fucking annoying and pestering people. Because it's what it takes to get people to stop doing this woe-is-me / there's only option to move this game forward, song and dance.
It's not sheeping... it's just objectively true. Me or HK need to die today Porscha. That's it. You can't solve the game with both of us alive tomorrow.

I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town.
Yet your expectation is that I should. Interesting.
Should my expectation be to kill myself? I mean sometimes maybe not here though

no, I'm saying your argument to Porscha "I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town" is bullshit when that's exactly what you expect me to do, lay down and take the chop that's coming.
I know I'm town and yet all I'm told is "for the good of the thread" or "we can't solve with you alive" which directly translates into "shut up and take it"

So I'm pointing out the bs

cause it doesn't feel like a mistake

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:26 pm kill esooa next day phase

do you think I'm making a mistake calling you, sabi, and porscha town?

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 1:42 pm We flip HK W. This won't "Confirm" people but it should do a pretty good job at showing that Me, Esooa, and Neon are town. From there the game is quite literally solved. Then it's either the TSP slot that is inactive which sucks or Porscha. I imagine the NK that Porscha thinks is so pointless to talk about will land inside of the 3 names I have listed as cleared.

This is how I view a HK w flip world

5 v 2

Hk flips W Neon NKed

4 v 1

Porscha flips V Esooa NKed

2v1

TSP flips W

Game over

In the world where HK flips V well well well we are in for a shit show but it may be a solvable one.

good news! it's shitshow time

because I'm town, and I town read sabi, porscha, lily

two wolves one bucket: neon, esooa, tsp

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:55 am And he only went to Esooa when the thread gave him hope he could not die

I started that wagon btw, when I flip town pay attention to it.

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:05 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:02 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:25 pm Votecount asofrn

MacDougall (8) - Esooa, Drwilgz , santygrass, riisinq- , Lilypetal, Achromatic, Porscha, sabiplz
Esooa (4) - Jack, Hollowkatt, MacDougall, Neon
Hollowkatt (1) - Nanook

Another question for everyone

Do you think Esooa here can be pure outside of Mac?
why not?

So you're confbiased I'm a wolf, got it. Has nothing to do with "HK needs to be resolved", nothing to do with "neither HK nor I can live to F(X)", and everything to do with "HK is always a wolf here".

anyways, I can't tell if you're playing poorly or a wolf, leaning you're a wolf because you've made this entire day and your entire posting methodology setting up me v you thunderdome when I've expressed zero interest in pursuing anything like that, and you're future flipping Sabi based on me being a wolf.

You're not actually solving today Neon, you're devolving into AtE and worlds that can't exist. Which I don't particularly care about, this game is an AtE fest, has been since the word go. What I do care about is your worldbuilding because I think it gives away that you need me to die.

[VOTE: neon] aubergine

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:05 am
Neon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:02 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 8:25 pm Votecount asofrn

MacDougall (8) - Esooa, Drwilgz , santygrass, riisinq- , Lilypetal, Achromatic, Porscha, sabiplz
Esooa (4) - Jack, Hollowkatt, MacDougall, Neon
Hollowkatt (1) - Nanook

Another question for everyone

Do you think Esooa here can be pure outside of Mac?

why not?

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:19 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:16 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:13 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:11 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:09 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:08 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:05 am

Example number 304378 of your continued bad faith against my slot
it isn't bad faith, it's objective game play to question why someone's behavior might suddenly change. I don't *know* you to give you meta fly aways like, "ah well neon always does". I am going to question this game for the next 40-whatever hours instead of rolling over and showing my belly and giving up and just sheeping a vote on hk when I don't believe it's as effective as most others do.

I very sincerely do not believe this is bad faith. You are seeing me playing seriously, and I am abrasive. you, like most people, will not like it. but questioning something that I have no previous meta of you on isn't bad faith. You don't know my play, I don't know yours. feel free to throw some fire back at me if you have it.
WiM changing is NAI entirely. But the question is not the problem anyways. It's the way you reply when I try to engage you and explain why it's not relevant lol
Yes. you can tell me it isn't relevant. you can tell me that it's AI for you and then change it back to the concept of wim being nai entirely. it doesn't mean I have to take it at face value and not have my own opinions or continue to challenge it.
Cool than you can just never find me lol
I would say you aren't doing much to help me by continuing on this. I'm open to the idea that the wim isn't important in reading you. But I don't appreciate you acting like I'm in bad faith for trying to wake the players in this game the fuck up, because they are currently mentally spiraling or sheeping the "flipping hk fixes everything!!" idea.

I want more, and I won't stop being fucking annoying and pestering people. Because it's what it takes to get people to stop doing this woe-is-me / there's only option to move this game forward, song and dance.
It's not sheeping... it's just objectively true. Me or HK need to die today Porscha. That's it. You can't solve the game with both of us alive tomorrow.

I'm not going to flip over and die when I know I'm town.

Yet your expectation is that I should. Interesting.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:59 am
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:55 am
Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:23 am
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:14 am Like I get it, you think I'm a wolf (or you have to push HK is a wolf because you're a wolf), and you think I'm being shitty. I am being shitty. I'm sick of being pushed for 4 fucking days, having literally none of my thoughts and reads respected, being told my play is bad, mocking me, and generally not having a good time.

When I do try solving the responses I get are "you're a wolf" or "that doesn't make any sense, wolf" so pardon me for not having the sunniest of dispositions.

I'm right in that the longer I live the more likely I am to be town because if I were a wolf you'd think I'd have gone over D1, 3, 4 but I haven't. Which means that either I'm being hard protected, or there are people in this thread who are even worse mafia players than I am (if they are town) which is, at this point, saying something fucking profound.

If I'm being hard protected who's doing it? Mac on D1, he flipped wolf.
Sabi the rest of the game, nobody seems to care about that though.
The solve is never proposed as "Sabi/HK" or at least wasn't until a few hours ago anyways.

So no, I'm not sorry for being sharp and having an edge to my posting. You try sitting in the POE, being shut down for 3+ days, and be told your game is shit and you're a shit player and see if you're sunshine and rainbows. Bet you're not.
I sit in PoEs for entire games all the time by the nature of the way I play the game and I've never really been pissed about it. That's like the nature of mafia.

I'm sorry that you've been in the PoE. I'm sorry that people are telling you your shit though I don't think I've ever done that and if I did I'm sorry and that's most certainly not what my intent was. I've been defending you most of the game. I've been listening to you most of the game.

At some point though I have to wonder... because Sabi is consensus town and never gets NKd in a mountainous. Your concensus PoE and never get DKd. I'm supposed to think that someone isn't saving your ass. I'm supposed to think that your not mafia? That you haven't been saved two days. I'm supposed to think that ALL of these wagons are T v T? And that Mac Esooa at EoD 2 was S v S?

I'm supposed to think nobody decided this entire time to shut down the highest posting consensus town? Like that's a lot of mental gymnastics from where I'm at right? Can you not see my conundrum?

Can you not see how you might try to preempt any push on you today? Like I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I don't see a world where I can find you with your approach to me up to this point.

And I'm not calling you shit. No kinda the opposite really. Regardless of alignment you've played exceptionally well to even make it this far.
Finally a real argument as to how HK can be a wolf!

That's only slightly sarcastic btw.

Legit though, yes, I do expect you to believe all the wagons excluding Mac have been TvT, they have been. I'm sure I flip today, idgaf about it really, I just am trying to hold as many peoples feet to the fire before I go.
You'll see they've been TvT with the exception of Mac v Esooa.

As to whether or not that's WvT or WvW probably we'll never find out till the game ends. I don't think you'll get a wolf tomorrow, I really don't. Games too fucked up at this point and I don't see the three remaining townies pulling it out, not when failure is so easy.

There's a really good reason to not kill Sabi btw, that isn't Sabi is a wolf. If you want I'll share it with you
Yes I do want. I want to solve the game. With the town.

I have two minds here. One is it's just the you Sabi Mac power team off death

The other is its Mac and two deep woofs that nobody has suspected this entire game like Porscha and Lily and Sabi and that Mac just didn't care about dying because he figured nobody would ever get there on the others.

I think Mac very much cared about dying. I think he didn't want to be the first wolf that flips but also I don't think he wanted to flip at all.
He had spent D1 hard protecting me, pushing Ender over me, echoing me when I wanted to push Ender. He didn't shift into "HK needs to die" mode until I made it clear on D2 that I was going to just fuck around and find out. At that point he shifts into a middle world of "hk is a wolf but also hk is bad for the thread" kind of read.

I think he intended for me to go over on D2 and played accordingly.
To me that says me dying was, at that time, part of the wolf team plan, and now it is not. It also says that Mac felt like he was at least one of the stronger players on the team, if not the strongest. Mac is aware I'm a solid player even after throwing a shitfit, he's seen it happen. He also knows that I am familiar enough with his wolf game that should I decide to find it I mostly likely can do so. He knows when I want to that I can do associations with a certain amount of accuracy, even if those associations are just "these people can't be a team".

All of that to say I think Mac realized I could be a liability to the wolf team which is why he wanted me to go over on D2. When I didn't go over and continued to play like a chocolate bar zapped with lightning and given access to urban dictionary and a keyboard I feel like the wolf team shifted, or could have, into "hk is an extra in Forest Gump, run him up but don't make it over till needed" which is why I've been counterwagon but nobody is actually pushing me hard enough to go over, or there's enough of a push on someone else to cause me to be "saved" for another day.

I dunno, I'm pulling bullshit out of my head that sounds good to me. Your mileage may vary, mine is high as fuck

Lilypetal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:57 am hk u dying is good for town if ur v

this is a new and interesting take, I'm listening

why you don't shut down sabi if they are town:

1. Nobody is listening to Sabi. They file Sabi away into a "town but" box and forget about them until it's needed to pull them out of it.
Sabi has the most posts of anyone in the thread and honestly the least amount of pull outside of me and TSP. Nobody is really following Sabis pushes, unless they are consensus, and nobody for sure is following their defenses. See Jack going over and me leading today.

2. Sabi is highly likely wrong on where the wolf team is. If Sabi were right about any of the wolf team, or were not protecting the wolf team in some way, Sabi would be dead. Instead Sabi is, like I said in point 1, mostly ineffectual, but also pointint in the wrong directions. Sabi also does not appear to be doing wholescale reevaulations of the game and their view on it, until today starts. The wolf team can play the odds Sabi doesn't re-evaluate and instead falls deeper into the "spam things and despair" gameplay they're exhibiting the last two days

3. Sabi and HK form an Alignment Confirmation duo. Inverse of the Difference Check, an Alignment Confirmation is functionally this: When HK flips town Sabi is functionally confirmed town. I've hard town read Sabi for days, and Sabi has been in the "HK is town" corner for days as well. If Sabi is a wolf today is the day Sabi needs to turn the corner, and Sabi needs to start doing it sooner rather than later, so that the HK chop is cemented AND so that Sabis pivot into HK wolfing isn't called into question in the coming max 2 game days.
Likewise, Sabi flipping town functionally confirms HK as town for the same reason. You can't simultaneously argue "HK kills his wolf readers" and also "HK kills his town readers" in the same breath, or even the same game day. It's a juxtaposition that can't be reasonably held.

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:23 am
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:14 am Like I get it, you think I'm a wolf (or you have to push HK is a wolf because you're a wolf), and you think I'm being shitty. I am being shitty. I'm sick of being pushed for 4 fucking days, having literally none of my thoughts and reads respected, being told my play is bad, mocking me, and generally not having a good time.

When I do try solving the responses I get are "you're a wolf" or "that doesn't make any sense, wolf" so pardon me for not having the sunniest of dispositions.

I'm right in that the longer I live the more likely I am to be town because if I were a wolf you'd think I'd have gone over D1, 3, 4 but I haven't. Which means that either I'm being hard protected, or there are people in this thread who are even worse mafia players than I am (if they are town) which is, at this point, saying something fucking profound.

If I'm being hard protected who's doing it? Mac on D1, he flipped wolf.
Sabi the rest of the game, nobody seems to care about that though.
The solve is never proposed as "Sabi/HK" or at least wasn't until a few hours ago anyways.

So no, I'm not sorry for being sharp and having an edge to my posting. You try sitting in the POE, being shut down for 3+ days, and be told your game is shit and you're a shit player and see if you're sunshine and rainbows. Bet you're not.
I sit in PoEs for entire games all the time by the nature of the way I play the game and I've never really been pissed about it. That's like the nature of mafia.

I'm sorry that you've been in the PoE. I'm sorry that people are telling you your shit though I don't think I've ever done that and if I did I'm sorry and that's most certainly not what my intent was. I've been defending you most of the game. I've been listening to you most of the game.

At some point though I have to wonder... because Sabi is consensus town and never gets NKd in a mountainous. Your concensus PoE and never get DKd. I'm supposed to think that someone isn't saving your ass. I'm supposed to think that your not mafia? That you haven't been saved two days. I'm supposed to think that ALL of these wagons are T v T? And that Mac Esooa at EoD 2 was S v S?

I'm supposed to think nobody decided this entire time to shut down the highest posting consensus town? Like that's a lot of mental gymnastics from where I'm at right? Can you not see my conundrum?

Can you not see how you might try to preempt any push on you today? Like I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I don't see a world where I can find you with your approach to me up to this point.

And I'm not calling you shit. No kinda the opposite really. Regardless of alignment you've played exceptionally well to even make it this far.

Finally a real argument as to how HK can be a wolf!

That's only slightly sarcastic btw.

Legit though, yes, I do expect you to believe all the wagons excluding Mac have been TvT, they have been. I'm sure I flip today, idgaf about it really, I just am trying to hold as many peoples feet to the fire before I go.
You'll see they've been TvT with the exception of Mac v Esooa.

As to whether or not that's WvT or WvW probably we'll never find out till the game ends. I don't think you'll get a wolf tomorrow, I really don't. Games too fucked up at this point and I don't see the three remaining townies pulling it out, not when failure is so easy.

There's a really good reason to not kill Sabi btw, that isn't Sabi is a wolf. If you want I'll share it with you

[VOTE: HK] aubergine hope the wolves win

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:09 am Ah yes. A woof would never preemptively try to stop their push good point.

What makes me a wolf Neon? In your own words please. Then, if you don't mind, who's my partner. At this point it should be fairly obvious, right? It has to be either Sabi or Porscha or TSP at this point.
It can't be you, you're hard on HK is a wolf. It can't be Esooa.
I don't understand your world view and I don't understand how my flip, in either direction, solves the game for you, as you said it did.

Like I get it, you think I'm a wolf (or you have to push HK is a wolf because you're a wolf), and you think I'm being shitty. I am being shitty. I'm sick of being pushed for 4 fucking days, having literally none of my thoughts and reads respected, being told my play is bad, mocking me, and generally not having a good time.

When I do try solving the responses I get are "you're a wolf" or "that doesn't make any sense, wolf" so pardon me for not having the sunniest of dispositions.

I'm right in that the longer I live the more likely I am to be town because if I were a wolf you'd think I'd have gone over D1, 3, 4 but I haven't. Which means that either I'm being hard protected, or there are people in this thread who are even worse mafia players than I am (if they are town) which is, at this point, saying something fucking profound.

If I'm being hard protected who's doing it? Mac on D1, he flipped wolf.
Sabi the rest of the game, nobody seems to care about that though.
The solve is never proposed as "Sabi/HK" or at least wasn't until a few hours ago anyways.

So no, I'm not sorry for being sharp and having an edge to my posting. You try sitting in the POE, being shut down for 3+ days, and be told your game is shit and you're a shit player and see if you're sunshine and rainbows. Bet you're not.

That was a helpful reminder that reading and comprehension, especially in a mafia game played over text, is super important!

The reason I brought it up is you're making the arguments I predicted someone would make yesterday and already shot them down AND showed why they're more likely to come from a baddie, but go off I guess?

Neon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 12:03 am
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:24 pm
Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:10 pm HK for multiple days

"I can't live until Iylo or town loses"

HK now

"You can't ever kill me or town loses"
I found this for you: Evelyn Wood Speed Reading and Comprehension Course
I see we are back to personal attacks on anyone who pushes us instead of actual game play defense that's cool.

You'll know it's a personal attack when it's a personal attack.

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:24 pm And wolf me has no reason to come in and push HK on solve if I know HK is town.

Logistically that doesn't make sense I can save HK for later and win the game with it. HK if town is such an easy misexe later.

Thing is apparently I'm incredibly hard to flip this game. It's been soooo close on every day that isn't D2 and yet here I fucking am.

I said yesterday the longer the game goes the harder it is going to be to flip me. If we flip town (not me) today I'm lock clear to everyone who isn't a wolf because I've clearly been saved for the final elimination by the wolf team.
This is what I was trying to get across yesterday. Today is literally your last chance to flip me.
Bet you can't

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:22 pm You don't need to test. I'm not testing. The game is here. HK has been a counter wagon to 2 dead townies. Do you HONESTLY think that HK has been a T v T wagon twice and their flip isn't a solve either way?

D1 counter to Ender
D2 counter to Mac
D3 counter to Jack
D4 counter to Santy

has my partner hard protected me this game, have they bused me? what's going on neon. If my flip gives you all the answers surely you've got an answer

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:11 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:08 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:53 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:58 pm I'm still waiting for Santy to use their own words to explain why I'm a a wolf who kills nanook
Santy literally said the reasons why already, but HK kept retreading during EoD that Santy has to appease specifically him with some random bullshit that doesn't matter. The reason is his reason whether he refers back to mine or says it himself. And this was during a time basically everyone else was realizing Santy was town because his posting was OBVIOUSLY towny. HK didn't care, he was just finding bullshit to try and keep him as the kill
santy goes over without me. It was 4-3 Santy-HK with me on risiinq until 30 minutes or so to EOD. Then I voted santy making it 5-3 AND NOBODY FUCKING CARED
Nobody said "hey that's wolfy", nobody said "hey, lets pivot to HK" which at least would have made sense.

You, santy, and risiinq voted me, everyone else voted Santy. How is it my fault Santy went over? Should I have stayed on risiinq? Would that have made more sense?

Also, in what universe do I kill another HK voter? You're not playing to the skill level I know you're capable of playing, what gives?
I'm not gonna argue it with you

The super nifty thing is you don't have to! You can push your incorrect read all you want!

Neon wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 9:10 pm HK for multiple days

"I can't live until Iylo or town loses"

HK now

"You can't ever kill me or town loses"

I found this for you: Evelyn Wood Speed Reading and Comprehension Course

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:53 pm
hollowkatt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:58 pm I'm still waiting for Santy to use their own words to explain why I'm a a wolf who kills nanook
Santy literally said the reasons why already, but HK kept retreading during EoD that Santy has to appease specifically him with some random bullshit that doesn't matter. The reason is his reason whether he refers back to mine or says it himself. And this was during a time basically everyone else was realizing Santy was town because his posting was OBVIOUSLY towny. HK didn't care, he was just finding bullshit to try and keep him as the kill

santy goes over without me. It was 4-3 Santy-HK with me on risiinq until 30 minutes or so to EOD. Then I voted santy making it 5-3 AND NOBODY FUCKING CARED
Nobody said "hey that's wolfy", nobody said "hey, lets pivot to HK" which at least would have made sense.

You, santy, and risiinq voted me, everyone else voted Santy. How is it my fault Santy went over? Should I have stayed on risiinq? Would that have made more sense?

Also, in what universe do I kill another HK voter? You're not playing to the skill level I know you're capable of playing, what gives?

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:53 pm
Lilypetal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:52 pm
Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:47 pm The vibes are bad right nown
Why lol
We have hk insulting players, the tension is at an all time high, I feel extremely lost right now.

I answered Esooas snark with the same level.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:52 pm Neon was extremely towny yesterday even if wrong, taking the initiative and her reasons were towny too. HK hid behind Neon's push and was just trying to pull gotcha's on everyone in the game while not doing any solving but apparently that's not who we're supposed to be killing today

bruh I voted risiinq till like the last 30 minutes, then Sabi and I talked and I moved to Santy. Neon had nothing to do with it, at least not directly. At least get the story accurate

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