The Syndicate

yeah she's not a wolf probably just wolfsiding hard

sorry, i forgot

esooa is probably 3P to be honest because she's supposedly unkillable but also doesn't care about anything in the game

my WIM has now reached negative levels though so I'm just going to vote fingersplints and leave rather than figure her out

enjoy the free win esooa

[VOTE: fingersplints] aubergine

michelle is currently carrying the wolf team on her back

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:17 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:16 pm the problem with your theory is that if they have a roleblocker and not a redirector then there's no accounting for why mich is alive and getting checks

We know they had a blocker. Seth. He's dead.

If the blocker is dead then why is the mafia not superkilling Michelle?

Also my legacy is to blindly chop through the POE, if you lose to a falsely mech cleared wolf so be it. Better than turning the game into a trash fire because of the mech.

the problem with your theory is that if they have a roleblocker and not a redirector then there's no accounting for why mich is alive and getting checks

right now you're defending a worldview that is logically impossible so I am pretty comfortable asserting that you don't understand the mechanics in play here

you can't kill me, nobody else thinks I'm scum

what are you going to do now michelle?

how about you solve my partners since you're so convinced I'm scum, maybe you'll get somewhere with that

I'm done convincing you Michelle. You respond to basic logic with accusations of discrediting because you don't understand how mechanics work, you didn't understand it in GOC and you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn. You go by the most first impression knee jerk shallow interpretations of how mechanics work in mafia games which is why you just take your check results as granted even in the face of conflicting evidence and it's also why you just assumed I was benign in GOC.

I've given you my logic. Now, you can either choose to believe me or not to believe me. Given that you have chosen not to believe me you are welcome to try to find as many people as are willing to out themselves as wolves by following your case. Good luck with that.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:56 am so this theory requires alison to be a wolf, assume odd won’t decline her order and strongman kill herself so lc dies? that’s what you’re going with?

even that theory doesn't work

because if that was true and I was assuming odd won't decline my order then I know that any protection aimed at LC lands on me instead, meaning I had no reason to super kill LC and would save it for michelle (who wasn't busdriven)

in the future if you aren't willing to put in basic effort into understanding mechanics don't sign up for role madness games. I hate mech too but I'm willing to sit down and work it out if necessary and you are acting like falcon and refusing to listen to basic reason. I'm not going to sit here hitting my head against a brick wall so bye. Good luck mustering up the votes necessary to kill me when the entire game knows that the mafia targeted me with their super kill.

if odd is villager then he wasn't lying when he said that he swapped me and sloonei

which means that you did not peek me at any point in time

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:52 am Alison is in control with Odd's action. Odd did his part in good faith.
What I say is that it's a complete nonsense from wolves to let LC alive so they super killed him knowing that if they target Alison the one who dies is LC.
They didn't have a second super kill to target me.

If the wolves feared LC's tracker/watcher ability so much that they'd super kill him, why not super kill you? A cop is better than a tracker/watcher.

Furthermore, if I am wolf and orchestrated the busdrive, I wouldn't need to use a super kill on LC. Any protection aimed at LC would land on me, so he'd never get it in the first place. It would make more sense to use a normal kill to target LC (who had protections busdriven away from him AND a weaker investigative role) and super kill you, the claimed cop with a stronger investigative role who had no busdrives manipulating you.

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:49 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:08 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:49 am I see normal from mafia Alison to discredit me btw

what, discredit your green check on odd? I have him as towncore since d1 when everyone hated him and he's still towncore for reasons unrelated to your check lol. I have no reason to go out of my way to discredit your cop checks

But you did it anyway

yeah because I think it's the truth - your checks really are compromised. I gain nothing as scum from pushing this idea, so it doesn't come from a place of agenda. I've showed you logically why this is the case: you have received strange results, and the mafia seem content to keep you alive. Every sign points to your checks being illegitimate.

are there any remaining mech mysteries that aren't explained by the presence of a redirector/insanifier

because I'm just going with that if it explains everything

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:49 am I see normal from mafia Alison to discredit me btw

what, discredit your green check on odd? I have him as towncore since d1 when everyone hated him and he's still towncore for reasons unrelated to your check lol. I have no reason to go out of my way to discredit your cop checks

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:49 am Is my Odd check a bad one?

It's an unreliable check given my theory yes

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:34 am but seriously, can we think about this?

we KNOW from lc that there’s a roleblocker. why didn’t they block michelle after she claimed?! why block lc?! are they a villager?

insanifier/redirector that they have perpetually camping at michelle's house would explain everything

they have no reason to block her because all her checks are bad

they have no reason to kill her because all her checks are bad

it would also explain why she red checked a dead villa, they didn't know who she was checking that day and messed up her night results, not knowing it would contradict the host flip and give away night result messing up

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:42 am Yes Alison but you don't solve the game and keep killing villagers

I created a POE that boxed gavial/dom and marmot - both flipped scum - and al sama who is likely scum. I'm following that POE because i believe it's the best way to solve the game, and it's produced enough pelts and that I'm comfortable it's not leading town down the wrong path. I think it's ridiculous to say that I've been going around killing villas

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:41 am I never saw you complaining about mechanics

multiple other players here can testify that I frequently say that I hate mechanic heavy games and think mountainous is the best because it doesn't introduce twisty situations like this

also odd can refuse my orders. if I am mafia and submitted a shot on myself and odd refuses my order, I would nightkill myself; this seems like a pointless and foolish risk

also I've complained repeatedly about mechanics heavy games out of game

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:34 am What if Alison knowing LCs ability and target and controling Odd's action made things happen to 'clear' herself?
Mafia knows by the BTSC all the actions and how they work, and targeted Alison with the kill, but they knew Odd will swap her with LC.
It doesn't sit right with me that Alison who won GoC, a heavy mechanic game is complaining now about disliking mechanics.
She is a very competent mechanichal player, so why downgrade herself like this?
I think Alison is mafia.

do you remember how I won GOC

it wasn't by solving its mechanics

it was by outing all my mechanics post 1 and then going afk

I'm fairly sure I've deduced what's going on here. It seems confusing, since all the night actions don't make sense, but if you think about it the answer is obvious. The truth is that

Oddmerta wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 pm Bo is locktown

not so fast, he could be scum with that power

I guess the scum roles all have scum flavors and this pill is very strongly tied to a certain character but eh

im not clearing anyone for good flavor/townie seeming roles at this point. I'm asking for a massclaim so there's no more ambiguity and we can coordinate night actions.

I kinda believe BK

@Justplayingitcool full claim including flavor

@fingersplints you too

what does the typewriter do

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:16 pm Okay, this is insane. Alison has four troopers at her disposal. Odd busdrives. LC tracks and watches and he's, what, also a 2-shot role cop? JPIC can maybe also track.
Masons. Esooa's tree stump that also has powers. A vig that's also a doctor. Everyone has multiple powers and they're all insane and unbelievable.

You guys wanna know what I can do? What fancy bullshit I have?

I can give someone a typewriter.

I can give.

Someone.

A typewriter.

A.

Fucking.

Spoiler: show

TYPEWRITER

the last person who had typing things based powers could literally kill people with the stories he wrote

you should probably full claim since I'm done with mechanical ambiguity and it looks like there isn't a soup kill.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:19 pm in a hypothetical world where my bottom two poe was lc and spf it would actually be alison and spf

that's true

for some reason I also have a strong gut read that alison is town so it doesn't change my solve but I understand if it changes other people's

that said nook said he protected you so kills on you would fail regardless I think

SPF should prolly fullclaim

everybody gangster until michelle comes back claiming she got an orange peek on LC

I'm going to assume scum doesn't leave cop alive for no reason.

either they shot mich, or they have an insanifier

so I got shot.

either hally or mich got shot. if mich got shot then SPF is clear. if hally got shot then nook is clear

christ alfuckingmighty

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:58 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:53 pm suppose we live in a world where hally was the failed kill

who would be your top two POE then hally?

in that hypothetical world? spf and lc

for some strange reason I have a gut read that LC is town.

thinking about SPF lol

let's say SPF is scum and hally is town and SPF tried to kill hally and myself.

why does scum SPF leave mich alone? especially since in that world there would be no protection on mich?

suppose we live in a world where hally was the failed kill

who would be your top two POE then hally?

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:50 pm According to the OP all attempted kills will appear in the write up no matter why they failed so that failed kill is probably just Nanook's shot

i don't think two shots hitting the same person causes the second one to register as failed

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:48 pm what if the failed kill was on me?

who protected you?

or frames sloonei, rather, same thing, neither of us made sense to frame n2

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:41 pm A framer existing would not surprise me

Also entirely possible that odd was blocked but

We'll cross that bridge if we have to

who the hell frames me n2

KZA wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:37 pm You guys say metawise that JPIC has trouble engaging as a wolf, right? So of course multiball would be a little easier for that because he can genuinely be hunting for the other team, but is it any coincidence that he's disappeared completely after Kansas City got decimated? Plus why would town have 2 trackers etc.

I think he's a strong bet for Gerhardt

good point, every town role has been incredibly unique and flavorful, having LC and JPIC's roles both townie seems unlikely

[VOTE: JPIC] aubergine

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:36 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:35 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 pm that makes me think wolves are guaranteed to have a redirector and nook’s shots pierce it so that it’s mechanically impossible for them to leash his shot

hmmmm

nook's shot piercing redirection definitely suggests that the redirector is a wolf

I'm not hugely confident in it but it's something to consider ig

i mean we already know there’s very likely a wolf redirector because it’s the only real way to explain michelle’s red check on you

I was thinking insanifier (in the "makes night results fucked up" sense, not the stardew valley post restriction sense), which wouldn't work with nook

that said

afaict the wolves shot the expected people (alison redirected to LC and failed kill on michelle)

so the POE is probably still correct

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 pm that makes me think wolves are guaranteed to have a redirector and nook’s shots pierce it so that it’s mechanically impossible for them to leash his shot

hmmmm

nook's shot piercing redirection definitely suggests that the redirector is a wolf

I'm not hugely confident in it but it's something to consider ig

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:32 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:31 pm My shots ignore misdirection

wdym

he's a strongman but for bus drivers

(the fact that this wording is used makes me think the actual strongman doesn't ignore bus drivers)

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:31 pm My shots ignore misdirection

oh nvm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:29 pm I uh

Shot lc

I did not think there was any world the mafia would NK the counterwagon

then why am I alive