The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:29 pm Dom still town. TSP town. Alison probably town.

ever since I won the best mafioso award I've never been able to get an unqualified townread from anyone

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:17 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:11 pm
KZA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:20 pm sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it
mind meld
one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

taking a moment to address the first point about bad faith - dom is tunneling. I don't mean this in a perjorative sense, since I think there's a good chance foresight is mafia and he's tunnelling on mafia, which is obviously great play. but in a more general sense his viewpoint is locked onto "foresight is scum, now how do I prove it". this means he's probably going to end up making posts that are, eg. overtly leading, make extremely uncharitable assumptions, or beg the question - all of which is "bad faith logic", but is just indicative that the person in question is tunnelled. see the way I attacked esooa in overtime mafia for a particularly striking example of this phenomenon

when I look for mafia logic, I'm looking for logic that is fake, artificial, performative, or intended to push a scummy agenda. see my case on foresight for an example of what I view as the difference.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:19 pm If I have a blind spot with spf, it is that I have only seen her town game in the high volume, high effort environment of Champs. I don’t really know what she’d look like in a more casual environment.

I think this opening is reasonably similar to Bread Mafia where she was suspected and POE'd for much the same reasons and ended up being town who blocked the scum nightkill three times in a row.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:17 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:11 pm
KZA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:20 pm sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it
mind meld
one of the things that i'm struggling w/re: dom is that his logic feels so often like it is being presented in an overly aggressive/bad faith manner. i have just absolutely failed to understand dom's perspective no matter how hard i stretch his - his logic is just straight up incomprehensible to me

since you feel strongly about dom being down, would you mind acting as a translator of sorts? do you think that dom's concerns are genuine? do you think that they align with his usual style of scumhunting? is this type of aggressive a typical characteristic for his town game?

I think Dom is walking into this game knowing jack and shit and a lot of the posts he makes feels fired from the hip. foresight accused him of lifting cases wholesale from scum BTSC, but I've had the opposite impression - his tone feels organic and there are some twists of wording ("what fresh hell is this? vague on vague on vague. I am not entertained") that feel like they come from the heart and certainly don't fit with the idea that he's just citing the party line someone else cooked up.

The emotion and gradually increasing annoyance transitioning into a straight tunnel on foresight is, I think, genuine, and if it is genuine then that makes it much less likely that he's a mafioso setting foresight up. on a more abstract level, I get a sense of isolation and "going solo" from his play - even the people who townread him and agree with his pushes aren't really angling at things the same way, or pushing the same narratives, as he is.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:33 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:00 pm @Sloonei

Question for you.

spf brought Alison up to you as someone you should suspect. She had two posts at the time.

C4 lays into Alison the second she shows up again.

What's up with that?
this is the EXACT BEAT FOR BEAT kind of post a wolf egging on a town to push town makes

He brings up two things with tenuous at best connections, ignores the context of them, and doesn't draw his own conclusions, but gives leading questions for someone else to make these conclusions for him

C4 pushing Alison wasn't based on a case he made, agreed with, or any such thing, it was based on Alisons interactions with him. Spf mentioning Alison doesn't really matter and she just wanted to talk about some of the posts Alison made

The only possible wolfy connection here is that these two are teamed and both decided to push Alison pre-game for ??? reasons

Which makes no sense and doesn't fit with the fact C4's push was reactive, not something he came out with himself

my main problem with this is that it's also how tunneled town eggs on other players to push their pet read

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:21 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:20 pm @Sloonei I think your points make sense and I like them

I wanna ask about something else now though which is, I'd rather move on from this at this point (which maybe is a bit selfish because I understand your point and don't need to talk about it more while others might) though, because I think it'd be better in the case spf is town to not push it for the next 28 hours we have, and still useful if she's mafia anyway

This is me saying I think SPF could be mafia but I also want to find her town, and if you wanna do the same our way to do that right now is drop the push until tonight imo
as I made this post like 5 other people said something similar which makes me uncomfortable, though

my take on SPF is that as much as she would like to pretend to be a tryhard player who brings energy to the game she's not-so-secretly in it for the fun of interacting with people she enjoys playing with, which is why her play amps up when she gets to play with hally tutuu etc., and because of this she routinely tries to engage the thread as a whole with high-effort stuff like reaction tests, asking for thoughts on X and minigames (GTH games, trust falls) as either alignment. I've seen similar patterns of behavior play out even when SPF is town where she does something "tryhard", doesn't seem to have the conviction to really fish for reactions or scum thinking behind it, and gets scumread for not contributing enough or not having authentic enough solving.

the upshot of all this is that I don't really see much of her play up until this point as being really powerfully indicative of alignment. it's just bread and butter SPF stuff. if mac or sloonei does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then maybe someone's a wolf. but if SPF or tutuu does a reaction test and there's no bite behind it then they're just being their usual high energy high participation look at me selves.

KZA wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:20 pm sorry I find none of this SPF stuff and issue and I'm fucking bored of it

mind meld

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:19 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:18 pm [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine is mafia
do you think that post I quoted just before was scummy?

I don't really have strong feelings about it to be honest

mac if I'm scum why are my townreads TMI and not a buddy

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:20 pm Sloonei and Alison are >>>>>> mafia here.

Their townreads are hot garbage ergo TMI.

no

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:56 pm Fuck, fix:

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:53 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:52 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm what makes you so sure the votes on you are a conspiracy by teamed wolves rather than wrong town or unteamed opportunist wolves
I have nowhere said that there can't be wrong townies on me. What I have said is that there's evidence that my name was brought up as a target in BTSC, and there would be at least one partner joining that push.
where is the evidence
Read #631.

631 is not actually evidence that there are teamed wolves pushing you

for one I have a strong townread on dom and am not convinced at all that the votes on you are a conspiracy, but even if we grant that you are right that dom is looking for reasons to attack you, there is nothing to say that they were concocted in scumchat or that scumchat has other people voting you (as opposed to just giving dom talking points)

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:52 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:50 pm what makes you so sure the votes on you are a conspiracy by teamed wolves rather than wrong town or unteamed opportunist wolves
I have nowhere said that there can't be wrong townies on me. What I have said is that there's evidence that my name was brought up as a target in BTSC, and there would be at least one partner joining that push.

where is the evidence

what makes you so sure the votes on you are a conspiracy by teamed wolves rather than wrong town or unteamed opportunist wolves

yeah and when you gave your reasoning it was bad and seemed made up

i literally dont understand a word of what you're saying

scum arent chill or unchill by nature its dependent on player

a desire to avoid attention has nothing to do with what esooa said

esooa voicing that she doesnt understand the setup has nothing to do with anything else

[VOTE: foresight] aubergine

your reasoning is unconvincing and reads like the type of logic that would come out of a scum trying to sound insightful

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:40 pm People shit bricks when they rand 3p and need to figure out a gameplan immediately. This game is a town and a bunch of 3ps. Therefore.

I think literally every 3P I've seen in my time on the syndicate has been omega chill and didn't care at all about the setup or the other players

the 3Ps here are slightly different from the usual 3Ps but regardless I don't think there's any basis for assuming that roll 3P = setup spec, nor do I think that there's any basis for assuming that setup spec = understand the game

Urist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:37 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:36 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:58 am Chop is TWTBAW ez
yuck
still think they can't be scum together? LOL

i saw some weird hostility between them at the start that made me think unaligned but I change my mind now

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:58 am Chop is TWTBAW ez

yuck

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:51 am
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:49 am
ChopChop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:37 am
I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?
Esooa
walk me through your thought process
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:58 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:45 pm let's be honest who here understands this game
This is super towny in a way that I might articulate after a good night's sleep but that you guys can probably vaguely see the angle behind.
Anyone not dark blue would have thought hard about the setup, and wouldn't want their thoughts on the setup to come out because it would be a huge slip risk. This post doesn't read as fake because IIRC it was in the middle of some big aimless convo between me/her/Sloon.

"esooa is town because she said she doesn't understand the game and that only makes sense if she's vanilla town" is not a good argument

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:49 am
ChopChop wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:37 am
I have a question for yeah.

What’s your highest TR?
Esooa

walk me through your thought process

So I think chop is a wolf but I also think foresight is and I don't think they're wolves together

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:16 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:44 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:29 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine
oh shit mac is mafia
See how she ignored me calling her mafia and immediately went on the offensive as a defensive tactic. Mafia.

Not sure how else you expect me to react to a naked vote/accusation on me. I think it's largely NAI and you'd probably do it as either alignment.

I suspect you because I think you'd read LC similarly to me if we shared an alignment. Why are you voting LC?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:37 am sloonei alison esooa dom long con all townleans

I approve of these reads

Sloonei can you remind me why you townread c4 because it's the main concern I have about your posting

I am of the opinion that virtually everything written by SPF this game has been NAI

Urist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:00 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:58 am
Urist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:56 am I get the feeling that LC is prob vault city so idk why he's getting wagonned atm but i said i'd sheep mac so
Poison's reaction to tsp on d0 is +enclave
C4 & spf are enclave

Like literally everyone is enclave except lc
what is vault city and why is LC that
Vault city is a 2nd scumteam that is kinda bad but not super bad
Enclave is the primary scumteam and there are allegedly more of them so we should be focusing on that team first
Lc is vc bc c4 voted 4 him

why can't LC be town being voted by scum c4

Urist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:56 am I get the feeling that LC is prob vault city

can you explain why you think LC is exactly vault city?

I have strong townreads on Dom and Epi.

Sloonei, Esooa and LC are lighter townreads.

TSP, foresight and Mac are my scumreads.

Am caught up to the top of page 10. I'll see if pages 10-12 change anything.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:14 am Do you think baddies usually plan every single action out as a massive manipulation tactic? If you really think this, I have news for you.

Dom wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:47 am Hi all-- I am catching up and hope to keep up throughout the game going forward. This school year has proven especially challenging for us teachers this year, so I will do my best. I'm glad to see new faces and some old friends. <3

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:02 pm Hey guys, metadiving is a huge PITA and so is figuring out whether NAI playstyle stuff is actually NAI playstyle stuff or not, so everyone gimme some playstyle cliffnotes. Here are mine.

Pros: Bunch o' stuff.
Cons: Can't brown nose for shit. Can't PR read for shit.
Gameplan: Make bad reads until I can make good reads.
Misc.: *deep inhale*

The shortest cycle length ever to be run on my home site was one 3/1 game, and most cycle lengths are things like 10/2 and 14/2, so TS cycles are definitely pretty fast for me. I've played a few 2/1 games on MU, so I can still keep up with reading for sure, and I can still make reads for sure, but don't expect me to highpost unless I really want to. For the same reason, I'm not so experienced with the live interaction side of this time format, which is something I'm hoping to learn more about.

My home site doesn't have pages, just long scrolls of posts, which actually makes wallposts easier to read than quintaposts n stuff. Wallposting is a habit I've been told to break on a couple of sites with actual pages. Will work on that.

Esooa is the only player here that I've played with before (I mean, who hasn't played with Esooa before at this point?), but I'm sorta familiar with spf's playstyle because I read G6. I'm also familiar with the playstyles of some other players here for reasons I can't talk about.
I feel icky about this. I have never liked when folks explain away n00bish behavior or cultural differences when it hasn't been a problem yet.
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:09 pm im gay
You are my friend :3
Rej wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:13 pm hey checking in
will come back later

be still my heart
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:14 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:08 pm
c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:57 pm All that talk of trying extra hard huh.
What is your mafia experience? What sort of things will you be looking for on Day 1?
My experience is a bunch of games, most on AoPS, some on MU, and I'm looking for AI posts like a normal person.
What the fresh hell does this mean? Vague on vague on vague. I am not entertained.
[VOTE: C4] aubergine

I think this is town

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:57 pm Like I think Esooa's scumread of LC is contrived and then the fact that they move from that to an associative scumread of Sloonei for townreading LC feels even more contrived

think this particular behavior is NAI for esooa

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:52 am On day 0 I had four posts and reasonably your read is like wrong but okay fine. And also, it's day 0.

and also I forgot

alison is very well known for having all her early reads be not serious at all

oh wait, that's the opposite of what alison is well known for

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:51 am ok I just saw that epi pipboy post and I think it's either a post restriction or a gimmick

either way he's cleared up my concern about him
Back to alison town

for?

ok I just saw that epi pipboy post and I think it's either a post restriction or a gimmick

either way he's cleared up my concern about him

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:49 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:46 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:44 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:43 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 amtsp town lean
have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)
alison townread removed
why
I don't think this is a good read and alison is supposed to make good reads. And OMGUS and all that.

but I was scumreading you since d0

why did you have the townread on me at all if that was the reason

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:21 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:15 pm need to do stuff for a few minutes so a quick response then will answer more later

I meant I treat my current read on you as not very serious and likely to change pending what you do later
Noted.

The reason I asked is that you seemed to be assigning more weight to my Long Con and spf reads than I am myself. I believe in the reads I have expressed in them so far, but I do not consider either of them to be even remotely close to solid. They are my initial impressions on the game.

There is not much more to the LC read than what I have said: I thought his attitude when he joked about being masons with me looked like a happy and carefree LC. The whole "claiming masons is easy" thing is not a line I'd apply to LC in particular: he's an old school Syndicat. The trend of claiming masons on Day 1 is a strange new custom we're not used to here. So I don't look at it as a routine thing for him to do. I just thought the post suggested he was coming at the thread from a place of ease, not straining to integrate himself. A vague impression, but an impression nonetheless.

I thought his response to the suspicion was snarky but laidback. I didn't mind. Scum LC doesn't get rattled by early Day 1 pressure.

do I get credit as the person who started the trend of claiming masons d1 due to making friends and enemies, or did that sprout from the mac/nook meme

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 10:09 pm [VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

hello epi please talk to me about this post, it's not like you to drop a naked vote and run, you are usually more forceful in your pushes as town

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:44 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:43 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 amtsp town lean
have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)
alison townread removed

why

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:48 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:45 pm let's be honest who here understands this game
The game of Mafia is a game with an uninformed majority known as the town and an informed minority known as the mafia. The players may collectively choose one player to eliminate by vote every game cycle, and the mafia may collectively do the same privately. Each faction's objective is to eliminate or insure the elimination of the other.

am I jumping the shark if I said this looks like an attempt to pocket sloonei

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:29 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

oh shit mac is mafia

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:40 amtsp town lean

have not seen anything yet that makes me retract my scumread of him early because he was jumping all over the place without much thoughtfulness in the way he does when he's scum trying to mimic his twitchy town style (see mysterious universe)

and my LAMIST stuff in SI was deliberately intended to make people read me as town so yeah

I've caught up to the start of page 6 and currently have a townread on sloonei (he's tryharding and I think it's sincere which is >rand town for him), long con (his post about "questioning my alignment or questioning my coolness?" was chill when I think scum LC that gets suspected early tends to be more tense and wired up) and esooa (paranoia about sloonei seemed real enough and interactions with long con seemed like she was resisting an urge to tunnel but trying to hold herself in check because she doesn't want to screw up the game)

they're reasonably thin townreads but enough for page 6

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:37 am I think that's standard new player on the block stuff tbh. I'm not reading much into it. Though, I remember when you did it in SI and some people were like "alison lock town" so idk

given my alignment in that particular game it doesn't really change my read on foresight

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:35 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:34 am
Urist wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:28 pm [VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe
uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong
i wanna hear more

why do u find foresight scummy

trying so hard to appear townie that it becomes LAMIST - tone feels forced and artificial

Urist wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:28 pm [VOTE: c4e5g3d5] aubergine

Poison & Long Con are mafia as well.
TSP is a maybe

uh oh

my reads align with Urist

something is wrong

c4, TSP are my scum reads

No town reads

Tony is scum. No other reads.

Pros: game winning tunnels
Cons: game losing tunnels
Gameplan: bury a scum D1, get killed N1 and then complain about town throwing the game from dead chat
Misc: I love Akemi Homura and I'm gay

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