The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:48 am idk. order of operations is made fullclaims and then I trust nanook after that but I dunno if there's any claim that ever saves made unless someone can prove to me that omega frequently lies as town for fun

made also refused to fullclaim while staring down the barrel of a red check in a game with no soup kill so yeah

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:29 am Why are people giving up so easily this game?

Unless something drastic happens my votes for the next 2 or 3 phases are locked in and I believe those flips will inform my view of what to do after so there's no real point hard casing people

Made is mech implicated, you might be mech implicated, Chop is possibly mech implicated and is just super scummy regardless.

Until I see flips I'm just spinning wheels.

[siren[/siren]

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:17 am
Made wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:12 am @Sloonei @MacDougall y’alls votes are baddie bait right?
No. Marmot is not town.

You red checked Marmot?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:02 am [VOTE: marmot] aubergine

Why

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:06 pm
Dom wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:03 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:02 pm @Dom I think your point about how easily he dropped the Urist suspicion is pretty good. I mean, all Urist said was "It's a common complaint".
Feels like it's not a genuinely held feeling.
Feels like he dropped the suspicion way too easily. But is that suspicious in itself? Is it w-w indicative? It might be towny - a wolf would fight harder to hang on to a suspicion they could use if it catches on.

Martin is town and probably afraid he's overthinking his suspicion or proceeding on shaky ground

[VOTE: Doom] aubergine

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:55 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:54 pm
Made wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:51 pm this is definitely OMGUS, but I'm getting bad vibes from Urist ngl. Is that vogue or not worth the push?
i think the only thing you should be concentrating on right now is reading your role pm and posting a SUMMARY of what it says you are and what you have done on previous nights

urist lock town

why

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:42 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:41 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:39 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:33 pm dom is outed mafia at this point
why?

Like I have him as a candidate but this conversation just seems to be him making snide remarks about DOOM/Nook for having an uppity attitude/not keeping up with the mech claims respectively. It seems mostly NAI to me.
Let’s talk about Tony.
Let’s change this subject in high gear.
Betcha you lock town him right?
this is a weird assumption to make given that I had tony as a firm suspect for all of d1 and most of d2

tony is not high on my radar right now given that we have you in the game and nook claiming he has mech proof that doom is outed scum. the SPF kill brings more confidence that he's town, but he mostly just a mixed bag to me right now.

Mmm
So you aren’t taking that full all in approach are ye?

can you like

drop the trolling for one second and tell me what the actual fuck you're talking about

I feel like I'm the only one even trying to understand your posts at this point and right now I'm inclined to just turbo you after resolving nook/DOOM

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:40 pm Signal to him
Give each other the winky’es
Slap each other a Lock Town read
Walk away with a grin of a lifetime.

You've brought up this stuff about me and Tony "signalling" to each other a few times. I'd like you to explain exactly what you mean by this and why you believe it.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:39 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:37 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:33 pm dom is outed mafia at this point
why?

Like I have him as a candidate but this conversation just seems to be him making snide remarks about DOOM/Nook for having an uppity attitude/not keeping up with the mech claims respectively. It seems mostly NAI to me.
Let’s talk about Tony.
Let’s change this subject in high gear.
Betcha you lock town him right?

this is a weird assumption to make given that I had tony as a firm suspect for all of d1 and most of d2

tony is not high on my radar right now given that we have you in the game and nook claiming he has mech proof that doom is outed scum. the SPF kill brings more confidence that he's town, but he mostly just a mixed bag to me right now.

Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:33 pm dom is outed mafia at this point

why?

Like I have him as a candidate but this conversation just seems to be him making snide remarks about DOOM/Nook for having an uppity attitude/not keeping up with the mech claims respectively. It seems mostly NAI to me.

What makes you think Esooa was killed for "complaining too much"/"playstyle reasons" rather than Meta?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:31 pm Did she claim her N1 check too or?

no checks claimed yet afaik, she said she was saving it for later

I mean I didn't know DOOM was exactly Westin either, I thought she was just claiming unspecified NCR role.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:28 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:26 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:21 pm I don’t think it’s mechanical reasons
Explain.
They didn’t claim anything that would make Enclave wanna kill them?

Okay, so what do you count "killed for being a good player and consenus townread" as?

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:21 pm I don’t think it’s mechanical reasons

Explain.

[VOTE: DOOM] aubergine

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:12 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:11 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:07 pm [VOTE: doom] aubergine

I’m actually using the vote tags so you know it’s serious
Do you actually have a decent reason for this or
Yeah she’s not the cop

If this is a CC I'll sheep it

ChopChop wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:15 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:38 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:29 pm Stop complaining, how do you think your Semi-Scum Counterpart died?
Did you just slip that you're Enclave and shot Esooa for questioning people too hard?
No?
I am BOS and I was clearly saying “complain” not “questioning”

Just saying that you and Esooa are mean gals that play very similar. As such I feel like if Esooa died due to something resolving around Playstyle I feel like the same could potentially happen towards you.

Esooa was consensus townread.

What makes you think she died because of her playstyle? You think the mafia got annoyed with her constant complaints and shot her?

[VOTE: ChopChop] aubergine

Will be back tomorrow, I've just had a terrible game (postgame argument blew up) and am probably going to sleep soon.

I am leaving my vote on Chop and going to bed. As long as the exe is between Chop and Rej I will be happy. Never flash wagon Jack here.

I literally don't care who dies at this point, I just want a flip. And Mac, if I was Slaver I'd have more reason to want Rej dead than Chop (Rej has bad associatives with a flipped VC slot and Slaver needs to get rid of VC), so your "she is voting Chop because she is not playing with a town agenda" point is invalid because there is exactly 1 non town role I can possibly mechanically be and that role has no interest in forcing Chop over Rej.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:32 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:22 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:54 pm Nothing short of a scum-flip that will make me think Chop Chop is scum here. Not even a red-check, though I may end up voting them for that since that could be in some cases the "mechanically correct move" in order to figure how much that cop is lying.
What makes you so sure Chop is town?
You wouldn't get it.

I've explained it earlier. Basically:

1. He has a good energy and he used emoticons more freely as well as diving into his new town meta more smoothly than I think his wolf game would; Especially in a game where
1a. He's in a near-completely new community of players whom he doesn't know.
1b. This game doesn't exactly always have clear-cut alignments of scumminess and towniness.

2. He's more of a paranoid player in the sense that he's skeptical of players in general more than most but once he gets a read he loves to sometimes unreasonably stick to it, especially scum reads. I would really love to give an example, but I can't for reasons. Anyways, in general I feel a level of towny authenticity in it from Chop Chop.

3. He's the sort of player to make exactly that dumb move earlier as town with respect to the message claim. As a wolf though? I have doubts because that would imply as a wolf he's not very self-conscious (In my view, though this may be debatable). Additionally, with the full message posted, I can see myself forgetting to type a name, and this could be really bad coincidence with the night-kill as he had to remember a large list of names.

All these arguments are based on Chop's meta. I think you are town, and I trust you to have a reasonable meta read on Chop. However, I can't get there on Chop being town, even taking into account that you're familiar with his meta, because I have to weigh your testimony about his meta against his (very scummy) behavior in thread and the other reasons that incriminate him (rolefishing in his message to Daisy, leaving out Esooa, etc.).

If you have a more concrete example of Chop being townie that doesn't boil down to "I know Chop and he wouldn't do this as scum", I'd be happy to listen.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:29 pm Stop complaining, how do you think your Semi-Scum Counterpart died?

Did you just slip that you're Enclave and shot Esooa for questioning people too hard?

Why don't people just read the thread and catch up like a normal person instead of going "oh, Falcon's dead? What did he say?" and making other people summarize for them

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:54 pm Nothing short of a scum-flip that will make me think Chop Chop is scum here. Not even a red-check, though I may end up voting them for that since that could be in some cases the "mechanically correct move" in order to figure how much that cop is lying.

What makes you so sure Chop is town?

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:04 pm Falcon got modkilled? That sucks. Plus, he was like the role Jay named himself for.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:03 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:00 pm Are we still at Chop and Rej are both maphier? Anything fun happen in the last 10 pages?
Falcon got modkilled due to some error or accident.

He was JJJ, claiming Alison was slaver or something.

Before it, Grogu was claiming Falcon was scum due to something mech.

Yet people assume JJJ’s check is fake due to no one voting Alison.
Sad, allowing an almost always Slaver (Lost Wolf) to live and legitimately signalled to Tony.

1) JJJ has an incentive to fake a check of Slaver on Elridge. This is because JJJ doesn't care about killing Slaver, but does care about killing Elridge. If anything, JJJ is a role that is more hostile towards Elridge than Slaver, so if JJJ tells you that a player who has claimed Elridge is actually Slaver, it should not be trusted. Conversely, JJJ has no reason to out and draw the mafia shot just to get rid of a Slaver, because a Slaver is no threat to JJJ and killing the Slaver does not help JJJ achieve its win condition. This is why people are not going to just sheep whatever Falcon says about me.

2) Mafia have incentive to shoot me so there's a high chance I get resolved during the night phase anyway.

3) Quote the posts that make you think I'm "signalling" to Tony (who I scumread for all of D1 and much of D2), because you've repeated this point often enough without a single shred of evidence to back it up that I suspect you're using it as a catch-all deflection of the suspicion on you and an excuse to vote park whoever you want (Tony/myself/Sloonei).

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:21 pm
Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:19 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:15 pm Not to mention I can legit resolve the situation regarding Falcon/Alison tonight.
Trying to prevent that seems like scum trying to protect the potential lost wolf.
I want to believe this. I’ll vote the other guy and wait for tomorrow. Good luck chop
You shouldn't. It's mechanically impossible for his claimed role to give mech info about me or Falcon.
Yeah because Faction Spy is the equivalent to a Town Visitor right?
Falcon is dead.

Who are you using your spy on?
He’s voting you.

Yes, he was modkilled.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:21 pm
Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:19 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:15 pm Not to mention I can legit resolve the situation regarding Falcon/Alison tonight.
Trying to prevent that seems like scum trying to protect the potential lost wolf.
I want to believe this. I’ll vote the other guy and wait for tomorrow. Good luck chop
You shouldn't. It's mechanically impossible for his claimed role to give mech info about me or Falcon.
Yeah because Faction Spy is the equivalent to a Town Visitor right?

Falcon is dead.

Who are you using your spy on?

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:19 pm
ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:15 pm Not to mention I can legit resolve the situation regarding Falcon/Alison tonight.
Trying to prevent that seems like scum trying to protect the potential lost wolf.
I want to believe this. I’ll vote the other guy and wait for tomorrow. Good luck chop

You shouldn't. It's mechanically impossible for his claimed role to give mech info about me or Falcon.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:17 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:14 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:13 pm Does anyone else think some or most of the pressure on me has been mafia-driven?
I'm voting the person who's voting you.

So yes.
I don't consider Chop to be a driving force behind the pressure on me. He put a vote on me but has said approximately 0 words about me all game.

I think Chop is scum.

If Chop is scum and he is voting you then pushing Sloonei is scum agenda.

If the scum team's plan is to push you then I doubt they sent Chop and Chop alone to do their work.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:13 pm Does anyone else think some or most of the pressure on me has been mafia-driven?

I'm voting the person who's voting you.

So yes.

ChopChop wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:12 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:21 pm I am not the Slaver. Falcon is full of shit.
We will see about that tonight.

How would you know? Your claim is that you're a town messenger. What, did you ask Enclave buddies to shoot me to see if I have a vest?

Anyway I need a break from the thread, this day phase has been a roller coaster and I just want to see a flip.

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:02 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:58 pm
Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:13 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:12 pm wait is one of the load-bearing arguments that he couldn't be a certain role because his actions aren't in alignment with that role's win condition?
No the load-bearing argument is that Falcon cannot be what he claims to be because it is mechanically impossible for him to get the night result he claims to have with any investigative role.
Did you kill falcon??
No. The host did.
Just I know but did you submit the kill I mean, don’t be smart now.

The kill was not submitted by anyone. We aren't allowed to discuss why it happened; it was a modkill made for something outside the boundaries of the game.

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:13 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:12 pm wait is one of the load-bearing arguments that he couldn't be a certain role because his actions aren't in alignment with that role's win condition?
No the load-bearing argument is that Falcon cannot be what he claims to be because it is mechanically impossible for him to get the night result he claims to have with any investigative role.
Did you kill falcon??

No. The host did.

Grogu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:51 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:55 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:53 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:51 pm There’s another possibility, which someone should breach.
"falcon was eliminated. he was a vanilla townie"
If he flips VT I'm blacklisting him.
He cannot be vt, come on

I agree he cannot be VT.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:51 pm I am mostly ignoring colors. Enclave and Vault City = Mafia Factions
Slaver and Jagged Jimmy J (RIP) = Independents
Everyone else = Town

This is basically what I'm treating the game as, yeah.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:43 pm gotta get a PhD in algebra to figure out whether that's a bad thing or not brb

It's a bad thing. Anyone sided with the town should treat both Vault City and Enclave members as enemies. Even if they are not directly an enemy of your faction, they're still going to be pursuing mafia goals in general, including killing strong townies, which makes it hard to solve the game and get your actual factional enemies killed.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:41 pm oh. I see. so the idea is that rej could be vault city

Yes.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:38 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:35 pm what is the rej wagon about? I didn't find any context clues in his iso, just seems detached and low effort
Bingo
is this ai for them

Yes. In a bad way.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:38 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:35 pm what is the rej wagon about? I didn't find any context clues in his iso, just seems detached and low effort
Bingo
And also Esooa treated him how she’d allegedly treat a teammate.
Esooa?

She's flipped mafia. And she had partner-like interactions with him.

Urist wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:24 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:22 pm Note that we have no idea what falcon’s flip actually means for alison, so that’s cool.
i think that alison is likely just the slaver. she will likely be solved/killed by vault city anyway

I am not.

I'm back on ChopChop. Him sneaking a vote onto Sloonei's wagon immediately before Falcon self destructed was awful and nothing that has happened changes the stuff surrounding Spacedaisy.

[VOTE: ChopChop] aubergine

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:13 pm falcon45ca has been killed by the host. He was:

Spoiler: show
Jagged Jimmy J

Please do not discuss host kill decisions publicly. It is okay to speculate about game-relevant matters, but not the decision itself. falcon is not in trouble, the cause was accidental. Concerns may be directed to me privately. Thanks folks.

?????

What the fuck was that

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:12 pm wait is one of the load-bearing arguments that he couldn't be a certain role because his actions aren't in alignment with that role's win condition?

No the load-bearing argument is that Falcon cannot be what he claims to be because it is mechanically impossible for him to get the night result he claims to have with any investigative role.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:08 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:57 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:54 pm Yep, exhausted all possibilities. Falcon is VC.
Why are you certain he's VC and not Enclave?
I was still assuming you were not Eldridge. He can be enclave if this was a completely unforced error

You were assuming Falcon was a scum role cop with a red check on me?

How does that make sense? If Falcon is enclave role cop he just sits back and watches the Slaver kill townies for him. If Falcon is VC role cop he just fake claims whatever role cop safe claim he was given the moment I claim Elridge, exposes me and collects free town cred + gets rid of Slaver for free.

His actions only make sense if his claim was rushed because he never intended to claim, and did so as a result of being caught visiting me for nefarious reasons in order to bring a townie down with him.

I'm having trouble picturing any role claim that would get me to believe he's town at this point. We're long past the point where "I misread my night results" or "I don't understand how my role works" is an acceptable excuse to me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:04 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:03 pm Why does Sloonei have twice as many posts as me? I thought I was about equal to him.
I unlocked an achievement where all my posts are worth double.

Perks of being the champ?

Why does Sloonei have twice as many posts as me? I thought I was about equal to him.

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