The Syndicate

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:18 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:16 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:14 pm you're suggesting that in a world where 2 members of the punk chat are scum, marmot is the townie sent by nanook to bring balance to the force; that makes sense, but how do you know that 2 members of the punk chat are scum?
hm

the word "consensus" suggests that even 1 dissenter in the punk chat would lead everyone in the punk chat to die

if there was 1 scum and 4 town in the punk chat then that 1 scum could intentionally vote against the consensus and just open wolf to blow up 4 town along with themselves, which is a pretty good trade

So maybe the protection against this strategy is that there's 2 scum in the punk chat, so they'd be trading 2 mafia for 3 town if they did that, which would be balanced
No, no, there could be one dissenter, but ONLY one. And Marmot couldn't vote. So, there was only four of us voting each time.

We needed majority. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have used the word consensus. ;-;

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:16 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:14 pm you're suggesting that in a world where 2 members of the punk chat are scum, marmot is the townie sent by nanook to bring balance to the force; that makes sense, but how do you know that 2 members of the punk chat are scum?
hm

the word "consensus" suggests that even 1 dissenter in the punk chat would lead everyone in the punk chat to die

if there was 1 scum and 4 town in the punk chat then that 1 scum could intentionally vote against the consensus and just open wolf to blow up 4 town along with themselves, which is a pretty good trade

So maybe the protection against this strategy is that there's 2 scum in the punk chat, so they'd be trading 2 mafia for 3 town if they did that, which would be balanced

No, no, there could be one dissenter, but ONLY one. And Marmot couldn't vote. So, there was only four of us voting each time.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:13 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:12 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:11 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!
There can be MORE than one wolf in punk chat, and if this is the case, Marmot is always town here! Because that would balance out the wolves almost having majority over punk chat!!!
wait what
Think about it. If there are two town and two scum in the punk chat, both sides have an equal opportunity to push who they want to get RB'd. Also, keep in mind that if we don't come to a consensus, we eventually die, so there's incentive to just come to an agreement on someone. However, Marmot can just veto that RB if they think it's a bad RB, or one that comes from scum. Does that make any sense?
And if this is the case, Trustworthy is actually pretty towny for wanting to vote themself, and TSP is town for being the consensus on N2.
so I follow your initial post about the mechanics suggesting marmot being town, but I don't follow this one about trustworthy and TSP being town for that.

So, like, if there are two mafia in punk chat along with two town, the two mafia have no incentive to really push for RBing scum, right? This means to avoid dying, the town in the chat would have to go along with whatever the mafia is pushing? But that's okay because if Marmot is town, he can just veto the RB so that it doesn't affect whoever our target is. However, that requires Marmot knowing that the punk chat is set up like that, which is why he might not actually veto the RB in theory. Also, I didn't factor in the lost wolf, too. Maybe the lost wolf was in there, too, with a single non-lost wolf, and maybe they didn't know this, too?

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:12 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:11 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!
There can be MORE than one wolf in punk chat, and if this is the case, Marmot is always town here! Because that would balance out the wolves almost having majority over punk chat!!!
wait what
Think about it. If there are two town and two scum in the punk chat, both sides have an equal opportunity to push who they want to get RB'd. Also, keep in mind that if we don't come to a consensus, we eventually die, so there's incentive to just come to an agreement on someone. However, Marmot can just veto that RB if they think it's a bad RB, or one that comes from scum. Does that make any sense?
And if this is the case, Trustworthy is actually pretty towny for wanting to vote themself, and TSP is town for being the consensus on N2.

OMG, it could actually be Quin and Turnip!

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:11 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!
There can be MORE than one wolf in punk chat, and if this is the case, Marmot is always town here! Because that would balance out the wolves almost having majority over punk chat!!!
wait what
Think about it. If there are two town and two scum in the punk chat, both sides have an equal opportunity to push who they want to get RB'd. Also, keep in mind that if we don't come to a consensus, we eventually die, so there's incentive to just come to an agreement on someone. However, Marmot can just veto that RB if they think it's a bad RB, or one that comes from scum. Does that make any sense?

And if this is the case, Trustworthy is actually pretty towny for wanting to vote themself, and TSP is town for being the consensus on N2.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:07 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!
There can be MORE than one wolf in punk chat, and if this is the case, Marmot is always town here! Because that would balance out the wolves almost having majority over punk chat!!!
wait what

Think about it. If there are two town and two scum in the punk chat, both sides have an equal opportunity to push who they want to get RB'd. Also, keep in mind that if we don't come to a consensus, we eventually die, so there's incentive to just come to an agreement on someone. However, Marmot can just veto that RB if they think it's a bad RB, or one that comes from scum. Does that make any sense?

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:06 pm Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!

There can be MORE than one wolf in punk chat, and if this is the case, Marmot is always town here! Because that would balance out the wolves almost having majority over punk chat!!!

Wait.... WAIT.... I THINK I GET WHAT TONY IS SAYING NOW ABOUT THE RB!!!

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:02 pm what was the phrasing of the way the roleblock worked? was it something like "you may vote for who to roleblock etc. and it might or might not go through"?

Yeah, something like that. And then it also said something about if we didn't come to a consensus enough times, someone would get randomly picked and die. ;-;

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:02 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:01 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:00 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:58 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:57 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:55 pm I thought none of them had actions they just had the collective block, an RB does nothing on a member of the group.
Correct as far as I know.
do you have action(s) now?
Not outside of doing the vote for someone to get RB'd with the others.
wait hold on that's significant
How so?
it means random roles weren't thrown into the punk chat, the roles in the punk chat were designed for the punk chat. Since alignment is distributed randomly, it lifts any pseudo barrier that would have only allowed for 1 wolf in punk chat.

Ohhh, okay.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:00 pm It's weird to me that Marmot didn't reveal that he was the one who controlled that.

In addition to the stuff I said previously about Marmot, I also don't feel like he acted as a good mouth piece for punk chat. o:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:00 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:58 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:57 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:55 pm I thought none of them had actions they just had the collective block, an RB does nothing on a member of the group.
Correct as far as I know.
do you have action(s) now?
Not outside of doing the vote for someone to get RB'd with the others.
wait hold on that's significant

How so?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:59 pm @Turnip Head vote alison with me lel

I'm considering switching to Alison just to tie things up. >:D

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:57 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:56 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:55 pm I thought none of them had actions they just had the collective block, an RB does nothing on a member of the group.
Correct as far as I know.
do you have action(s) now?

Not outside of doing the vote for someone to get RB'd with the others.

I'm liking Tony more from interacting with them. I don't like Turnip's vote on him anymore. o:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:55 pm I thought none of them had actions they just had the collective block, an RB does nothing on a member of the group.

Correct as far as I know.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:52 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:50 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:49 pm I've never played with Quin. I was inclined to think the pick a fight entrance was towny, but that's an archetype thing.
Didn't TL come in picking a fight with Marmot though?
Yeah I thought TL's entrance was towny too. See: me saying so. But I didn't think it was towny for that reason -- Quin picked a fight with everyone, came in openly hostile as I recall. TL entered more smoothly.

I wish Quin had picked a fight with all of us in punk chat while we were stuck in there. :< That would've been spicy and helped get me engaged with at least interacting with the people inside the chat.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:49 pm I've never played with Quin. I was inclined to think the pick a fight entrance was towny, but that's an archetype thing.

Didn't TL come in picking a fight with Marmot though?

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:46 pm Also can we like consolidate since 1/1/1/2/1 wagon formations are awful

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

Also, I feel like I'm the only one who's made an actual effort to info dump stuff from punk chat for you guys to analyze. Why have I become the designated 'info from punk chat getter'? :<

Tony, here's what I said about TH and Marmot:

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:30 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:25 pm Hmm... I'm reading some convo from Turnip and Marmot, and I think I have reason to believe that they aren't scummates.
To go into this in more detail...

No one from our chat is pushing the others to go reread the chat I feel like, but in it, I see Turnip and Marmot talking about who they'd vote for if they could vote D2. Turnip mentioned they'd vote for FG if they could since her handling of Poison felt out of character for FG. Marmot then mentioned struggling to find a reason to vote someone, which Turnip then reacted to by saying, "Yeah it's tough to come up with votes when you're mafia. Sorry bud."

Given how little any of us in the chat were engaged with the game, I don't think scum would feel the need to be performative there. Thus, I don't think this was any kind of distancing act.

As far as Marmot and Quin interactions, I don't remember if I checked for those or not. I don't recall seeing anything meaningful though.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:38 pm Someone please tell me why it's not hyena quick

Because I'm super-duper town.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:38 pmok why marmot

Who are you asking? Me, or TSP?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:10 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:41 pm Quin may not have done anything obviously town but he didn't really do anything scummy either. I think more than anything else he was weirded out by the format. Why do you townread quin so strongly?
Because Quin was begging Mac not to shoot FG and the FG shot was pretty bad for town. Mac was choosing between FG and me, and both of us are town. A wolf has no reason to do anything but sit back and eat chips there.

Theoretically, yeah, but in my experience, wolfs will do pretty much anything for shits and giggles even if they have no reason to do anything. o:

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:35 pm [VOTE: marmot] aubergine

*big shrug*

This, or Quin, I think, maybe. I should probably re-eval Alison, too, soon.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:01 pm [VOTE: trustworthy] aubergine

for now

I'm honestly so lost, I could vote just about anyone tbh

I do really believe Alison could be deepwolfing here and bussed strategically/had her defense prepared, but it also feels so weird to me that I believe that now since I towncleared her so strongly earlier -- but that's exactly what I'm afraid of, misclearing her when I know her wolf game is really strong.

Idk. I'm really not feeling good about this phase, can see nearly anyone besides Hyena as plausible scum atp

I don't feel good about going for Trustworthy now, by the way.

Trustworthy Liberal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:26 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:24 pmOkay, I'm here.
Hour and a half me and Quin top wagons and 3 off votes.
Not a good situation to ever be in expecially if nutella is evil.

Ehhh, I don't think Nutella is evil though?? I don't think you should be a top wagon though anymore.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:50 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:45 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:40 pm Marmot + Trustworthy scummates might be a thing.
Trustworthy jokingly called Marmot scum, too, but on reread, it has that "inside joke" kind of feel that makes me feel that they could be scummates. Also, when Marmot asked all of us if we were ready to get into the thread, Trustworthy was the last to answer (pretty much a seconding of what Turnip said as an answer). Quin didn't answer at all.

So you're discounting that TH and I could be teammates for the same reason you're suggesting TL and I could be teammates right?

Kinda yeah. The vibe I got from TH and you joking around though felt different that the vibe I got from TL and you joking.

Okay, I'm here.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:30 am Oh I see my chat mates are voting for me. I'll be around this evening to prove you folks wrong.

Do you think Quin or Turnip Head could be mafia? :P

Trustworthy is starting to feel towny to me if it means anything.

I think it was hard for me to gauge in neighborhood chat because no one there (even me) was really invested in the game at the time. In my case, it's because it's tougher making reads when I can't interact with people. And then I have to make reads on people who are in a similar position as me? Lol, how do I even do that?

Well, at least I'm not too far behind on stuff, lol.

Alright, I'm here now.

There's eight players alive right now, right? If I take {me, Nutella, Turnip, and Quin} to be all town, I'd only need one more town to have auto if I'm correct with those four.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:07 am But like even if she doesn’t know she probably never shoots LC

Again, I didn't read the specifics of why LC was shot, but I remember townreading LC in the beginning of the game. I recall someone else in our chat doing so, too. Thus, I don't know if ever would have called LC clear scum. :P

With that said, I am leaning town on Nutella at the moment. Out of the people that weren't in Punk Chat with the four of us, she's my highest town.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:59 pm do you know for sure that it went through though? hyena said it was a maybe thing

Yeah, we don't know if it goes through or not. We did target TSP last night though.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:45 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:40 pm Marmot + Trustworthy scummates might be a thing.
Trustworthy jokingly called Marmot scum, too, but on reread, it has that "inside joke" kind of feel that makes me feel that they could be scummates. Also, when Marmot asked all of us if we were ready to get into the thread, Trustworthy was the last to answer (pretty much a seconding of what Turnip said as an answer). Quin didn't answer at all.

On second thought, Trustworthy could be scum alone and Marmot could be town. It was Trustworthy jokingly calling Marmot that really gave me the weird vibe in that interaction. Basically, it is possible that there could be only one scum between them, which would be Trustworthy in this case, I think.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:46 pm I don't think our chat has more than one wolf. I think we started out with one wolf at max, and then marmot joined the chat afterwards, and could also be mafia, but I don't think marmot is mafia with anyone else from the chat.

Yeah, I think I agree with this. The only thing I'm not factoring in right now is the possible lost wolf that has been mentioned.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:40 pm Marmot + Trustworthy scummates might be a thing.

Trustworthy jokingly called Marmot scum, too, but on reread, it has that "inside joke" kind of feel that makes me feel that they could be scummates. Also, when Marmot asked all of us if we were ready to get into the thread, Trustworthy was the last to answer (pretty much a seconding of what Turnip said as an answer). Quin didn't answer at all.

Marmot + Trustworthy scummates might be a thing.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:30 pm
Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:25 pm Hmm... I'm reading some convo from Turnip and Marmot, and I think I have reason to believe that they aren't scummates.
To go into this in more detail...

No one from our chat is pushing the others to go reread the chat I feel like, but in it, I see Turnip and Marmot talking about who they'd vote for if they could vote D2. Turnip mentioned they'd vote for FG if they could since her handling of Poison felt out of character for FG. Marmot then mentioned struggling to find a reason to vote someone, which Turnip then reacted to by saying, "Yeah it's tough to come up with votes when you're mafia. Sorry bud."

Given how little any of us in the chat were engaged with the game, I don't think scum would feel the need to be performative there. Thus, I don't think this was any kind of distancing act.

Quin and Trustworthy were talking about video games(??), and I don't see why they wouldn't just save that for scum chat if they were scummates together?

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:32 pm hmm

thinkin about trusty lib

So, like, out of the four of us who were in the chat, I got the best vibes from Turnip. I didn't feel anything from Trusty nor Quin.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:25 pm Hmm... I'm reading some convo from Turnip and Marmot, and I think I have reason to believe that they aren't scummates.

To go into this in more detail...

No one from our chat is pushing the others to go reread the chat I feel like, but in it, I see Turnip and Marmot talking about who they'd vote for if they could vote D2. Turnip mentioned they'd vote for FG if they could since her handling of Poison felt out of character for FG. Marmot then mentioned struggling to find a reason to vote someone, which Turnip then reacted to by saying, "Yeah it's tough to come up with votes when you're mafia. Sorry bud."

Given how little any of us in the chat were engaged with the game, I don't think scum would feel the need to be performative there. Thus, I don't think this was any kind of distancing act.

Hmm... I'm reading some convo from Turnip and Marmot, and I think I have reason to believe that they aren't scummates.

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:21 pm Okay, Marmot was the one who first mentioned that Alison was one of the later voters on Vulgard and that she did so because she trusted the voters on Vulgard in spite of finding Poison more suspicious. Marmot didn't think a scummate wouldn't make that kind of argument.

Turnip then questioned this and mentioned the possibility that Alison thought the amount of distancing was sufficient in Vulgard's end?

This discussion all happened shortly after I gave my thoughts on Vulgard's ISO.

Okay, Marmot was the one who first mentioned that Alison was one of the later voters on Vulgard and that she did so because she trusted the voters on Vulgard in spite of finding Poison more suspicious. Marmot didn't think a scummate wouldn't make that kind of argument.

Turnip then questioned this and mentioned the possibility that Alison thought the amount of distancing was sufficient in Vulgard's end?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:02 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:11 pm [VOTE: Vulgard] aubergine

Poison: Here's your five points.

1) Your reads haven't made sense to me this game.

2) The way you flooded the thread with a bunch of meaningless posts is a scumtell.

3) The way you handled the "I have TMI on TSP too" stuff with nutella was awkward and bad, and now that TSP has been spewed green it looks a lot like you really did have TMI on him and were trying to pass it off as a joke.

4) LC's flip hasn't changed your read on me at all, indicating that you are not interested in having good reads and are looking to push a narrative.

5) LC has made a lot of people look good except you. That means there are very few candidates who can be mafia, which means the probability of any individual player in the list being mafia is higher. Combined with the above 4 points, that makes your scum equity pretty high.
Here you moved off the Poison vote to vote Vulgard as a resignation but keep slinging shit at Poison.

What I am seeing is someone who went about building negative momentum towards a heap of town players d1 but was forced to townside and vote Vulgard because of the gamestate.

I feel like someone gave this exact read in our neighborhood chat, actually. Let me look and see.

I feel absolutely useless right now to be honest. Between being stuck outside of the thread and not being able to do my normal hyena shenanigans D1, I don't really know how to approach getting reads on people. This is exactly why I hate subbing into games midway through. ;-;

Hyena wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:07 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:03 pm Yeah I can try to shoot someone today. I'm currently thinking turnip but if anyone has strong feeling lmk
I'm hesitant to give Trustworthy a townread, by the way. Like, I didn't really know how to read any of the people that were with me.

Speaking of Trustworthy, when we were deciding who to maybe RB, Trustworthy initially attempted to vote themself rather than decide on someone else.

The vote discussion and the order of votes is probably something else I can look at and give you guys.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:03 pm Yeah I can try to shoot someone today. I'm currently thinking turnip but if anyone has strong feeling lmk

I'm hesitant to give Trustworthy a townread, by the way. Like, I didn't really know how to read any of the people that were with me.

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