The Syndicate

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:19 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:14 am How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys
I’m sad you got offed Night One! I wish I’d have had more time to play with you! Thanks for making me feel so welcomed!

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:28 am
KitsuShel wrote: ↑Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 pm Looks like that it’s for me, it’s been a great game guys. Good luck! I’m heading off to bed.

I still don’t want to see any “Good game” posts, especially if there’s only one mafia left and the rest was just a blind and stubborn town.
Good game.
@Epignosis & @Wisp Helluva game, guys! You deserved it! I’m still supa annoyed that no one would follow my feeling on you, Epi.

Thanks! It made me sad too! Come play another game with us sometime!

sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:18 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:14 am How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys
Haha I don't know tony was jack the Ripper and not a bad guy.

The pawn spirit thing is an interesting dynamic. I like that concept.

All in all I knew I was signing up for an interesting unique game and that's despite what we got haha.

Not the one from anime, I think? I'm admittedly not familiar with the source material beyond a quick google search tho

[this is why I don’t give detailed reasons for reads

]

I mean uh

I have six or seven games that say differently and I haven’t been wrong so

You did it maybe once or so D1, a couple more times N1, and a bunch more d2 lulz

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:44 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:31 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:29 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:14 am How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys
I tiptoed around that like hell.
You had me D1. I *think* I would’ve gotten to you d2 when you started doing your tell, but easy to say with hindsight! You definitely had me going D1
What's my tell?

You can inform me because

to Mafia.

There’s a correlation between you talking about RL reasons for not being in thread/being behind/not real timing and you being mafia.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:29 am
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:14 am How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys
I tiptoed around that like hell.

You had me D1. I *think* I would’ve gotten to you d2 when you started doing your tell, but easy to say with hindsight! You definitely had me going D1

D1 was super fun tho thanks guy and gals

How could you clear wisp after he claimed Jack Torrance A LITERAL BAD GUY

C’mon guys

i wasn’t aware this was a horror movie. Hee ho!

Honestly the more I think about it the more I kinda wanna just take FG as town but it’s hard to quantify why

Eh, I guess there might be a protective role, maybe I will get to D3. We’ll see!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:11 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:10 pm You’ve got more experience with meaningful night polls than I do, I’ll follow your gut on it
I like your idea better. It could amount to the distribution of something, so a split is safe.

It could also be meaningless.

Cool. Me/you/wisp on, Hally/Epi/kits/sabie off seems fine to me?

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:11 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:02 pm I’m not asking you to fit in I’m just asking you to meet me halfway lol

Idk why we have to wait for next game let’s just meet halfway d2!
How about D3?

If I haven’t been NKed by D3 something has gone horribly wrong lmao

You’ve got more experience with meaningful night polls than I do, I’ll follow your gut on it

Heh my first thought was the opposite, split the townies so our bases are covered either way

I bow to your expertise

I suggest one of jay/Hally moves to on with me

And keep one on off

Bases covered either way makes sense I think?

Hmm

Simplistic view is on is for abilities on off is for them off maybe?

Doubt it would be that straightforward tho

I’m not asking you to fit in I’m just asking you to meet me halfway lol

Idk why we have to wait for next game let’s just meet halfway d2!

I’m taking a nap now, if I’m still alive for D2 I’ll make a concerted effort to get together with you and see if we can find some ground we agree on. Maybe you’ll even convince me someone in my towncore is bad, who knows.

I’ll listen to what you have to say, can’t promise I’ll agree with it, that’s the best I can offer, take it or leave it

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:51 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:46 pm Like for fuck’s sake dude I’m trying to extend an olive branch and you’re just moping and putting up the finger

How do you expect people to not kill you if your response to “ok we’ll listen to you and try to work with you” is fatalism and fuck yous???
"Long Con is bad, he has no reads"

Long Con: "I think Jay is bad, here's why."

"You look worse for making that case."

Long Con: "Okay, here's why I think Kitsu is shady."

"Kitsu is town, why are you casing one of our towncore?"

Long Con: "All right... you specifically asked me about Epignosis, so here's a case on him, and reasons I think he could be bad."

"Uh, no, we didn't mean for you to suspect Epignosis frankly this makes you look worse."

Long Con: "Thanks for working with me, I'll just wait here for my yeet."

I disagreed with your conclusions but I never said they made you scummy

If all you have for me is this combination of vitriol and resentment and petulance...idk dude, how am I supposed to work with that

I guess you can blame me for how other people responded to you if you want, not gonna get very far that way

That reminds me that I owe you the rest of a theory discussion sometime lol

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:48 pm It’s fun to see that my ways aren’t THAT different to the 451 style as they appear on the surface. I don’t view post aesthetics or communication quite the same way, but the core process is pretty much there.

Yeh the broad approach of “towncore and POE” is the same, it’s just the methods of getting there that are a bit different I think

Like for fuck’s sake dude I’m trying to extend an olive branch and you’re just moping and putting up the finger

How do you expect people to not kill you if your response to “ok we’ll listen to you and try to work with you” is fatalism and fuck yous???

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:43 pm Do your thing. I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines.

Ngl it’s a bit irritating that you’re bitching about being left out literally as we’re trying to include you and tell you how to work with us

This “do your thing I’ll do mine” attitude is shitty, quite frankly, we’re trying to all to do the same thing

Hot take: mafia play here is often solidly above average, but not elite. Towns here just have no sense of cooperation and often a strong sense of fatalism, and that leads to a lot of town losses.

Also echoing what Hally said this approach is tried and true and you have people from two different communities with strong town play (Hally from PerC and myself from 451) telling you this is how towns win games over time

I mean being in the POE doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to die, it doesn’t even mean you’re going to stay in the POE! Helping sort the rest of the POE is a good place to start

Like the POE isn’t a 100% static thing, it evolves/has room to evolve

Big daddy jay come talk some sense into these miscreants please

I was waiting for it, as soon as you mention working as a team or following a POE at least one usually more people have to come out and say some variation of “fuck you and the horse you rode in on I’m doing my own thing go away”

It’s super fun

There’s the uncooperative attitude that serves syndicate so well

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:49 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:37 pm This is a pretty self centered view but I’m perfectly fine with a gamestate of “nanook and jay figure out alignments and determine kill pools and I don’t care what anyone else does as long as they follow our kill pools”

I get that’s not exactly the fun way to play but I think it wins more games than it loses
I generally think this entire debate about "what is the best way to play mafia" is pointless and unproductive here and I generally think JJJ's strategy can't be too bad in his gamestate anyway so I'm going to ask everyone to just shelve this particular dispute over theory until postgame.

I'll probably have my own kill pool and decision-making process, which I'll follow instead of yours, but I also suspect it's going to be 90+% the same as yours anyway, so we'll just see who overlaps in our kill pools and consolidate on them. I doubt it'll be a big deal this game.

I’m not saying everyone should turn their brains off and follow myself and jay

I am saying that if a kill happens outside myself and Jay’s pool while we’re both alive...well, I won’t say not nice things, it just shouldn’t happen and I’ll leave it at that.

Wisp wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:46 pm Man I wish y'all would chill... I am trying to focus on something else right now, and night phase is supposed to be for sleeping and recuperating!

NO...SLEEP...TILL...VICTORY

Inb4 “what if he’s pocketing you tho”

Then I’ll catch him at f3

This is a pretty self centered view but I’m perfectly fine with a gamestate of “nanook and jay figure out alignments and determine kill pools and I don’t care what anyone else does as long as they follow our kill pools”

I get that’s not exactly the fun way to play but I think it wins more games than it loses

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:31 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:19 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:11 pm Tbh I forgot wilgy existed, he can go in the low POE

I have a strong TR on wisp and have since very early that one probably shouldn’t surprise you lol
So my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that you townread Wisp because he's adhering to his town meta. Presumably you think the probability of Wisp replicating this meta as scum knowing that you are in the game is low. Why? Is his scumrange small?
There’s a chance he is, sure. 95% of the time his alignment is fairly obvious, especially when he’s town, so I’m not really interested in chasing that 5% at this point.
oh ok, you think Wisp is just the kind of player who is always obvtown when he's town and obvscum when he's scum and you think he's obvtown right now based on what you know about him

I think he’s a relatively easy townread in a large majority of his town games yeah

This may be a difficult thing to grasp and I understand that it can be counterintuitive but I have very little interest in reading most people off “have they contributed something.” A lot of people don’t really contribute much and yet are easy townreads, that’s all I really care about tbh

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:19 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:11 pm Tbh I forgot wilgy existed, he can go in the low POE

I have a strong TR on wisp and have since very early that one probably shouldn’t surprise you lol
So my understanding (correct me if I am wrong) is that you townread Wisp because he's adhering to his town meta. Presumably you think the probability of Wisp replicating this meta as scum knowing that you are in the game is low. Why? Is his scumrange small?

There’s a chance he is, sure. 95% of the time his alignment is fairly obvious, especially when he’s town, so I’m not really interested in chasing that 5% at this point.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:05 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:50 pm I think scumAlison is a bit more likely to venture into that territory either to let town go down a bad path, to not rock the boat, or to seek towncred.

It’s not a read I’d push but it does keep her in POE for me.
who is your POE nanook?
Low POE rn is like

LC/FG/Colin/pawn

High POE is like Tony/alison

Not sure if that breaker makes sense anymore but that’s where I’m at rn
considering me more scummy than wilgy or wisp seems like a weird read to me but I won't object if it helps me live through the night

Tbh I forgot wilgy existed, he can go in the low POE

I have a strong TR on wisp and have since very early that one probably shouldn’t surprise you lol

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:04 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm Also solving townies is still solving
We have a different definition of solving but just to clarify, I refer to gamesolving as "trying to figure out the identities of the mafia". To me that is town's win condition, and the game is considered solved when we fulfil it. Figuring out who town is can help with that to some extent, but it hasn't actually borne fruit yet and probably won't until Day 6 or whatever given the slow-burn POE strategy JJJ is employing. So I can't actually say that JJJ has tried to solve anything yet.

However, this seems like an extremely pointless semantics debate and I really think it's clear exactly what I meant by the comment that JJJ hasn't done that much solving. If you want to engage with me on that point, that is the meaning I use.

I mean, a POE of five you’d expect to hit mafia no later than D3 right?

The rest is theory discussion I’m not present enough to engage in rn

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:58 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:52 pm These names plus Epi for me
What's your absolute favorite thing about Epi in this game?

Unquantifiable presence

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:56 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:53 pm No she’s right jay you’ve basically just sheeped my reads
For the sake of thread health I am going to let you believe that.

I think we can agree that you haven’t had any original thoughts this game and have in fact just been using more words to repeat what I’ve said

Also solving townies is still solving

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:51 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:50 pm I think scumAlison is a bit more likely to venture into that territory either to let town go down a bad path, to not rock the boat, or to seek towncred.

It’s not a read I’d push but it does keep her in POE for me.
who is your POE nanook?

Low POE rn is like

LC/FG/Colin/pawn

High POE is like Tony/alison

Not sure if that breaker makes sense anymore but that’s where I’m at rn

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:35 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:32 pmJJJ hasn't actually done that much solving

No she’s right jay you’ve basically just sheeped my reads

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:21 pm I have firm confidence in the civilianhood of these players:

Spacedaisy
Wisp
KitsuShel
sabie12
Nanook
Hally

And that's still a decent game state considering our present state of heightened confusion. So let's try to get back to sound hunting as a group; the game doesn't have to become a toilet (not saying it has done that, but we're walking the toilet tightrope). One name I didn't include was Epignosis. I need to review him with fresh eyes.

These names plus Epi for me

With you in my spot obviously

Pawn Lelouch wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:02 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:56 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:56 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:55 pm Alison has moved *slightly* down for me tbh
why?
She hates angleshooting and what we were doing was fairly close to it
And you believe that hate is inherently alignment based? Meaning she wouldn't do it as town but would as mafia or 3P?

No, I think she’s somewhat more likely to go along with it as mafia than as town

Nice of you to join us

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:58 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:56 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:56 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:55 pm Alison has moved *slightly* down for me tbh
why?
She hates angleshooting and what we were doing was fairly close to it
why does that move her down?

ignore this if it will venture back into prohibited territory

I think scumAlison is a bit more likely to venture into that territory either to let town go down a bad path, to not rock the boat, or to seek towncred.

It’s not a read I’d push but it does keep her in POE for me.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:56 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:55 pm Alison has moved *slightly* down for me tbh
why?

She hates angleshooting and what we were doing was fairly close to it

Alison has moved *slightly* down for me tbh

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