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@S~V~S @Thunal33 @ScottyI m not.!!!!!
Abigail do you have any real reads?☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:28 pm I literally can not express to you enough that you should vote Michelle ffs I'm begging you
It's strong because shows mindsetRondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:25 pmIf thats all you got its weak.Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:24 pmI explain why that's wolfy.RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:22 pmI liked the "why arent people voting for me" vibe. she was being scummy and yet people were town reading her. It was strange. She called it out. It is a pov I am familiar with.Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:20 pmI think found and vote a wolfRondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:18 pm @Michelle stop trying to defend yourself. You have 10 minutes to find a wolf.
Give me a reason for Lorab town
Makes her blend in
I explain why that's wolfy.RondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:22 pmI liked the "why arent people voting for me" vibe. she was being scummy and yet people were town reading her. It was strange. She called it out. It is a pov I am familiar with.Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:20 pmI think found and vote a wolfRondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:18 pm @Michelle stop trying to defend yourself. You have 10 minutes to find a wolf.
Give me a reason for Lorab town
I play the gameCape90 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:19 pmI know that it is weak, but I didn't like your shift to townreading me based off of game state instead of jumping to your own conclusions on things
why have you been doing that this game?
It also felt like your longer posts were long for the sake of being long, they lacked substance
I think found and vote a wolfRondoDimBuckle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:18 pm @Michelle stop trying to defend yourself. You have 10 minutes to find a wolf.
Why?robyn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:12 pmwe spoke about this, recency biasBereft wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:11 pmSo inactivity and residual townread, makes plenty of sense.
i think we're wagoning a wolf though, so that's good
i believe it's probs michelle
The desire to survivie is not AI per seThunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 10:08 pmI'm also looking at it from the POV of Michelle specifically. She fooled me as a spectator and I looked at that scum game to find ways to read her, and I found that she was a bit more one-sided and oriented to survive. I don't think she would think of that as mafia and I also think her approach to the game would be different. More picking a target and pushing it, like continuing the OMGUS of you the whole time or picking someone else for the day.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:52 pmI think S~V~s has a general policy that she will endorse no matter who it is (and she's probably a bit more likely still with oldschooler posters like LoRab). I don't think it matters what alignment either of them are. It's part of her game philosophy.Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 9:48 pmWhy do you think it's NAI?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:06 pmI think that’s NAI (individually and interactively).
A lot of my stronger town tells are because I don't think the person would even have the thought as mafia.
I think that was one of those moments where Michelle said reasoning mafia wouldn't even think of. I don't see Michelle as someone who has as in-depth reasoning as scum and absolutely would make that kind of read as a snap take and leave it. The fact that she considered all this history with this read in particular, an easy townread on the scariest player in the game, I think is something scum Michelle wouldn't do. It's the kind of read that would be an afterthought as scum.
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:38 am
Your conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.
I started to play 5 years ago as noob player, with low English reading/writing skills, but with a life experience who let me the possibility to understand things unspoken behind the words. It felt thrilling to find words to defend myself while I was accused of being the bad guy. As mafia, I didn't even have to do much because my mafia rands were not many so my start in forum mafia was to be villager again and again.
My homie who restarted the mafia section in our forum sent me to MU to play the Mentor mentee game in january 2019. My mentor is a legendary player and he mentored me after playing 12 years of mafia.
I was always paranoid playing with Momstrman, he is now retired, maybe turbo-ing from time to time, but at one moment I learned to read him by a small trick.
Because he is retired and also because he is not a Syndicate regular I can tell you about this trick, otherwise I hate to show my shortcuts for reading someone.
My mentor was always mentoring town when he was town giving advice for the play in general. As mafia he wasn't doing it. And I started to notice that at other very strong players as well.
You were doing it in our finale game and your start here made me write that post because I considered your advice useful for town.
I don't even believe it's the easiest town read you ever had. It's just a take I posted to see what feedback I receive from it. You speculated the rest. Made from it more than it was, imaginated the omgua when I said it's not set in stone.
A read made by game experience can be a bad or a good read, and i am always starting somewhere where an idea pops in my head, which is exactly what I did with the town read on you.
The primary reason I don't share your confidence about that Michelle read is that I know with certainty that I have provided explanations like that as mafia. Mafia can definitely think of it, and indeed that's something I may even emphasize as mafia. Sometimes a narrative is sellable as a story, and you can be sure that I will capitalize on that as a wolf. I don't know really if that's in Michelle's playbook, but I know it's in mine. I am sure she is telling the truth, but I don't think it means much.
Second game with no other experience of forum mafia/other social deduction games?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:53 pmIt's only barely a meta read in that this is her second game on the site. I hosted the first. She should be interpreted through that lens -- a brand new mafia player. I just think she looks real.
Can you say it again?DarlingMonroe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:23 pm yeah, bereft/michelle/lorab/svs is where I am at for wolves
and it seems town has gotten it together with votes on all of them... and them not voting for each other or for townies is what is convincing me
Now reading the Iso I agree with the wagon on LorabThunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 5:15 pmI still think that mafia wouldn't think about all that when making the read on JJJ's post, because it felt like you were really thinking about it and it's the kind of read mafia would make a snap take of and not think about it more.
I voted LoRab then because I didn't want you or SVS voted. I feel like by PoE LoRab is fairly likely to hit and she did have a couple pings.
Thanks!DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 4:00 pmWelcome back friend. Glad you are having a good day.Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:47 pmVCSpoiler: show
LoRab. 2. Voters: robyn, Thunal33
Michelle. 3 Voters: JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy, Scotty
S~V~S. 2. Voters: DarlingMonroe, Cape90
Thunal33. 1. Voters: RondoDimBuckle
Me having a good day irl is bad for town, I see I am top wagon
I have a few pings I will answer asap at them before anything
I read zero SVS posts,JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 3:06 am @Michelle as your time permits, I think the absolute best thing you could provide are your impressions of these people (maybe from an ISO skim):
S~V~S, LoRab, Scotty, Abigail
or any subset of them if you don't have time
I had traction for low activity.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 11:34 amYou were the counter wagon d1, a silly looking vote doesn't look good in that light.
I feel that I should have a more clear means of knowing your headspace given how much traction you had and that's just not the case. I will review your more recent stuff, but as it stands when I saw this it felt almost in confirmation of the d1 wagon.
EOD1 wagons were on me vs zero poster and SVS iirc, and I only knew my alignament so I self pressed.DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:01 pm @Michelle I've reviewed and still think that my vote on you makes sense for reasons I've stated previously. Allow me to explain more precisely on some things.This post was the first indication of you desiring to place a vote anywhere, it wasn't caused by hunting but a justification of a vote that needed none as there was nothing to justify against.
It's not like you had stated "I want to vote X but you force me to vote Y" where the justification would've made sense.
Your next indication of vote/suspicion was more silliness and this was in spite of being a d1 counter wagon that you were cognisant of.
Following this, I've still not seen a legitimate suspicion or signs of hunting from your slot. You seem mostly fixated on Jay (which is fine, I too am fixated on Jay for other reasons) but there's nothing besides that present.
I didn't think that way, it's just game experience.Thunal33 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:36 pmI think this comes from a town mindset. It's one of those things where most mafia don't even think that in depth about that kind of read.Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:38 amYour conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:27 pmI was referring to Michelle in that comment. Rondo made an argument for why Michelle's responses to me at EOD1 were towny, and that was my counter.Cape90 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:26 pmwhat do you mean by this? You clearly don't think Thunal is super towny unless i am misinterpreting what you are sayingJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:59 am Rondo all that “keeping me in check” is omgusing my suspicions after giving me the easiest town read I have ever received.
I started to play 5 years ago as noob player, with low English reading/writing skills, but with a life experience who let me the possibility to understand things unspoken behind the words. It felt thrilling to find words to defend myself while I was accused of being the bad guy. As mafia, I didn't even have to do much because my mafia rands were not many so my start in forum mafia was to be villager again and again.
My homie who restarted the mafia section in our forum sent me to MU to play the Mentor mentee game in january 2019. My mentor is a legendary player and he mentored me after playing 12 years of mafia.
I was always paranoid playing with Momstrman, he is now retired, maybe turbo-ing from time to time, but at one moment I learned to read him by a small trick.
Because he is retired and also because he is not a Syndicate regular I can tell you about this trick, otherwise I hate to show my shortcuts for reading someone.
My mentor was always mentoring town when he was town giving advice for the play in general. As mafia he wasn't doing it. And I started to notice that at other very strong players as well.
You were doing it in our finale game and your start here made me write that post because I considered your advice useful for town.
I don't even believe it's the easiest town read you ever had. It's just a take I posted to see what feedback I receive from it. You speculated the rest. Made from it more than it was, imaginated the omgua when I said it's not set in stone.
A read made by game experience can be a bad or a good read, and i am always starting somewhere where an idea pops in my head, which is exactly what I did with the town read on you.
Robyn had a town core of Cape and Bereft. A simple stance and I didn't notice anyone to say something against it. At the time I had a thought and I don't want to give it away but I wouldn't vote any of them.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:59 pm I would very much love to hear reads on Bereft and robyn from @S~V~S, @DrWilgy, @LoRab, @Michelle, and anyone else that hasn’t recently stated them. That’ll be nice for me to assess the general game state. Thanks.
I am sorry, weekends should be time out from mafia. At least Sundays.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:01 pm I will note that, historically, some of my worst town games from the standpoint of having decent reads have been games plagued with inactivity — as this one is. So no matter how much work I have done, I am still thinking over everything and I still value everyone’s input.
Thanks!.i need time to catch up at least on the day and look at that but i am going first to have some Sunday fun in townJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:46 am @Michelle, you asked for an example of me making a big pretty table as mafia. Here's Halvosen Ridge.
This looks a perspective slip but since robyn said so convinced they're in town core that means there's something else and I think I get itBereft wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:59 pm Can we go back to being all chummy and acting like the game's over like we were yesterday when it wasn't even, 'cause the game's not gonna suddenly become more exciting. And I'm saying this knowing that I'm going to be the one around when we're down 2-3 mafia.
Can you link me a game where you were mafia making that table?Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:15 amReaching this point I understand low activity has impact on your analysis - speaking for me, I know I low posted and that's why you put me in your teams.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:20 pm
Highly doubt they're teamed | Unlikely to be teamed | Maybe compatible even if I don't feel it | Compatible
The names in this table are the names in my POE pool. This is how I further narrow down suspects.
~ Thunal is a goofy or bad fit with everyone else save the zero poster. That's a pretty good indicator in her favor.
~ ts account is compatible with everyone by default. There is no further rationale there.
Per this table, the following teams of four are possible with completely mutual yellow blocks.
[Michelle, LoRab, S~V~S, ts account]
---
[Michelle, Abigail, LoRab, ts account]
---
??? That might be it? I don't see another one off-hand, but I'll keep scoping my table. It's hard to tell lol.
Teams that work if I allow the softest green color to be treated as yellow:
[Michelle, Abigail, ts account, Scotty]
---
[Michelle, Abigail, LoRab, Scotty]
---
[Michelle, LoRab, ts account, Scotty]
---
Not seeing another at the moment, but I am also going blind. I will indicate if I see another. But here are two viable teams and three more semi-viable teams. So defines the POE:
{Michelle, LoRab, ts account, S~V~S ||| Abigail, Scotty}
This has been me fully showing my work for why my solve is my solve.
You don't have to answer at my previous post now
Reaching this point I understand low activity has impact on your analysis - speaking for me, I know I low posted and that's why you put me in your teams.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 8:20 pm
Highly doubt they're teamed | Unlikely to be teamed | Maybe compatible even if I don't feel it | Compatible
The names in this table are the names in my POE pool. This is how I further narrow down suspects.
~ Thunal is a goofy or bad fit with everyone else save the zero poster. That's a pretty good indicator in her favor.
~ ts account is compatible with everyone by default. There is no further rationale there.
Per this table, the following teams of four are possible with completely mutual yellow blocks.
[Michelle, LoRab, S~V~S, ts account]
---
[Michelle, Abigail, LoRab, ts account]
---
??? That might be it? I don't see another one off-hand, but I'll keep scoping my table. It's hard to tell lol.
Teams that work if I allow the softest green color to be treated as yellow:
[Michelle, Abigail, ts account, Scotty]
---
[Michelle, Abigail, LoRab, Scotty]
---
[Michelle, LoRab, ts account, Scotty]
---
Not seeing another at the moment, but I am also going blind. I will indicate if I see another. But here are two viable teams and three more semi-viable teams. So defines the POE:
{Michelle, LoRab, ts account, S~V~S ||| Abigail, Scotty}
This has been me fully showing my work for why my solve is my solve.
I have to read a lot but until then can you tell me about fitting me with your viable teams?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 1:08 amGreat question. My mindset is more "who's right for today?" instead of "who goes first then second then third...?"
If I attempt the latter question though, I'm thinking something like...
Michelle (fits on most of my viable teams) > LoRab (fits on most of my viable teams) > ts account (fits on most of my viable teams, but Seanzie 2.0 is scary) > S~V~S/Scotty (need to sort difference check)
Subject to change
Your conclusion was and is rushed and limited by the fact I didn't have time to explain it at all.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:27 pmI was referring to Michelle in that comment. Rondo made an argument for why Michelle's responses to me at EOD1 were towny, and that was my counter.Cape90 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 7:26 pmwhat do you mean by this? You clearly don't think Thunal is super towny unless i am misinterpreting what you are sayingJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:59 am Rondo all that “keeping me in check” is omgusing my suspicions after giving me the easiest town read I have ever received.
And your meta on me is oldMichelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:01 pmHow much do you rely on meta when you read someone?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:52 pmI think Bereft can be compared stylistically to Creature, albeit more like a refined statesman version of Creature. He comes with that opaque and sometimes dreary point of view, but you can kind of tell when he believes what he is saying. I have believed him pretty much all game long to this point. I think his solving has been purposeful, mostly agreeable, and nuanced.Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:41 pmDon't make a full case, just a sentence or two about themJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:39 pm Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.
I think robyn is playing off of players that they believe can promote a pro-town game direction (primarily Bereft and to a lesser extent me). They are progressing through solving dynamics organically and fluidly, and there's a certain diversity to their takes that is difficult to mimic as mafia when the win condition isn't actually "solve the game".
I am asking because the read on me/Rondo/Robyn are all based on meta from what I see.
How much do you rely on meta when you read someone?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:52 pmI think Bereft can be compared stylistically to Creature, albeit more like a refined statesman version of Creature. He comes with that opaque and sometimes dreary point of view, but you can kind of tell when he believes what he is saying. I have believed him pretty much all game long to this point. I think his solving has been purposeful, mostly agreeable, and nuanced.Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:41 pmDon't make a full case, just a sentence or two about themJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:39 pm Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.
I think robyn is playing off of players that they believe can promote a pro-town game direction (primarily Bereft and to a lesser extent me). They are progressing through solving dynamics organically and fluidly, and there's a certain diversity to their takes that is difficult to mimic as mafia when the win condition isn't actually "solve the game".
Talking about my reads I think Jay didn't take into account the fact I spent just a few minutes in the game and i only read a few posts.robyn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:52 pmcause if not i’ve fucked up and she should be choppedCape90 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:49 pmwhy do you expect this?robyn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:12 amwhat do you think about me hard pushing the chop away from her if she does flip red?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:11 am I was very serious about suspecting Michelle and am a bit irked that folks hardly engaged. Her reads did not look real, and that has been the common theme every time I have seen her as mafia.
also i am expecting her to towntell today and i'm conscious of the fact that she's been pocket-y towards me
Don't make a full case, just a sentence or two about themJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:39 pm Raise your hand if you believe it would be valuable to you if I were to town case robyn and Bereft. I may proceed to the next step if the consensus is already strong enough with those two.
I think I understood this one.Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:25 pmHaha Matches had a jellybean.Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:11 pmWho are you and what you did with Scotty?Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:09 pm Nah, twirl that. I don’t have flightplan to detail back 8 popsicles so I’m gonna presume a few noodlebrains:
-Rainbow is laughing JJJ as OMGUS
-JJJ is juicing Rainbow as a margarine vote. I’m optional to trail his chimney atm because he courted pretty mundane end of resistance in my reread
-Rondo is voting JJJ because Rondo
-Flutterby is froglegs for [reasons]
-no fence new has laughed in
Am I tired yet?
But like, for the most potion I don’t bite I’m that whoopee to bleach. Gopher are your scumreads besides JJJ?"
Ok, this feels way betterJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:29 pmI am "mad" like "ready to be my best self", not mad like "upset".
A townie who doesn't want to survive don't deserves to play..JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:19 pmThe whole point was that your reads struck me as too frivolous to be real. You are generally a nuanced hunter, and that did not look like nuanced hunting.
Broader problems: I don't think you played EOD1 like someone who cared about the vote beyond your own survival. You did not try to find mafia. You fought me off and then defaulted to a self-preservation vote. I also don't think you're looking for mafia today. Your current vote for me is almost a meme, and I am not sure how it reflects an effort by you to solve the game.
If your interactions with me hinder your hunt, then I would suggest ignoring me for the time being and getting to it.
Don't be mad.
No, but I get it. However when I say I didn't read the post, you should trust I didn't.robyn wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:11 pmever heard of the phrase you can do more with less?Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:10 pmI didn't notice itJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:59 pm @Michelle here was the prEOD case:
Click here
You responded to the thread (and directly to me) moments later.
I'll read it now.
How big do you think is my phone screen?
Who are you and what you did with Scotty?Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:09 pm Nah, twirl that. I don’t have flightplan to detail back 8 popsicles so I’m gonna presume a few noodlebrains:
-Rainbow is laughing JJJ as OMGUS
-JJJ is juicing Rainbow as a margarine vote. I’m optional to trail his chimney atm because he courted pretty mundane end of resistance in my reread
-Rondo is voting JJJ because Rondo
-Flutterby is froglegs for [reasons]
-no fence new has laughed in
Am I tired yet?
I didn't notice itJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:59 pm @Michelle here was the prEOD case:
Click here
You responded to the thread (and directly to me) moments later.
