The Syndicate

Spoiler: show

Good morning!
I feel the game is stagnant.

Probably not the best day to go outside the PoE because of low activity.

I see Wilgy is choosing the easiest path.

I have to sleep, I will be here in the morning

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:23 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:20 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:20 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:08 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:05 pm

Why can't you?
Fear
Do you fear Abi more than you fear me?
Yes
Wtf why I'm not even good ...
You're amazing, don't undersell yourself.
I've lost like 2 of my 3 wolf Rands this year and got D1d in 1

I'm trashhhh

Don't say that, it's not true. You should think higher of yourself

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:22 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:17 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:08 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:05 pm

Why can't you?
Fear
Do you fear Abi more than you fear me?
Yes
I'm not a wolf this game because if I were a wolf I'd be more townread.
You were universally town read until today.
Yeah and one more day of that and this game would have locked with my nightkill.

But what I actually meant (semi-jokingly) was that as a wolf I am very confident in my ability to get townreads just from my posting and not interactions with other teammates. It's one of the reasons why I very rarely bus (the other being that I can rarely survive F3 situations due to paranoia about my survival since I tend to get halfway ruled even if I don't bus).

Talk to me about bussing please. Why not?

Don't forget to town case Wiml for me Abigail

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:03 pm We are playing hunt the SK and the PoE was stretched too think by 2 people (indicative that the thought process to do so is at least plausibly genuine)

There's no longer a "solve" but a what do our own methods agree upon and which of those methods has the most agreement.

My personal Poe wasn't the consensus one since yesterday anyway.

Methods doesn't count, but the conclusions are important

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:12 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:10 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:08 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:05 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:03 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 2:01 pm

Bruh
Hombre you know why I can't clear you this game, as much as I'd like to.
Why can't you?
Fear
Do you fear Abi more than you fear me?
Yes
I'm not a wolf this game because if I were a wolf I'd be more townread.

You were universally town read until today.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:58 pm
Spoiler: show

Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:51 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:27 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:56 am Town Core

Wilgy
Roxy
Wiml

Probs Michelle is town and I'm letting earlier emotions get to me again.

I think Kate is less likely to play this way as wolf but I think Kate is unlikely to play this way as either alignment so I'm trying not to read too hard into that

Epi is probs just a wolf.

GGs
Talk to me more about the bolded please. Why the suspicion I have gives you emotions?
I think my feelings for what happened D1 have been pretty on my shoulder and I don't really want to rehash it. I'm acutely aware that my emotional state can sometimes impact my reads negatively.
I am sorry for that, please note that I mean no harm to you personally and it's about game suspicion.

Mafia contains a lot of emotion and I've been highly emotional in games myself until I realised I shouldn't put at heart a game who is supposed to be fun.
You've done nothing wrong but thank you. I play mafia emotionally at my core because I find that I'm at my best when I'm like that. I dunno how to describe it. I wear my emotions openly and it's been good for me. But I also see how I can get tunneled off it.

I've been told that I can speak about this by the MU mods. Caitlin or OIx plays very similarly to me and if you read how her and Justin were treating each other in the semi final 1 that just got canceled... from a spectator pov I was shouting it was T v T and that read was right but if you put me and you in that position I'm suddenly scum reading you much like Cait was scum reading Justin.

As a bystander I can read the scenario right through empathy but when I'm in it I fall back on my own feelings and don't look at yours.
This is bad and I kinda feel like me v you this game is exactly what Caitlin v Justin was in that game.

I tried to avoid such things. It's sad...

I understand you consider you can read me based on the games we played (I don't think you saw me wolfing though) and you have a TR for that but the read is shaken because I suspect you.
I also think you understood why I suspected you so that shouldn't be an issue. But you voted me today because I started to suspect Wiml.

I wish an explanation for your town read on Wiml please

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:53 pm
DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:40 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:13 pm Any good Wilgy readers here want to talk about him with me?

Or anybody with a strong read on him really.
That doesn't exist.
I disagree and also your town and I believe that strongly. Get rekt.

I like this post. Made me laugh.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:54 pm Now that proper PoE resolution has been thrown out for reasons, I think I'm at:
Kate > Abigail > Wiml > Epi > Michelle> Roxy.

I'd lose to Michelle or Roxy. Epi is hard because I have a perpetual bad read on the slot.

What made you accept so easy the suspicion on Quin?

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 1:27 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 11:15 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:56 am Town Core

Wilgy
Roxy
Wiml

Probs Michelle is town and I'm letting earlier emotions get to me again.

I think Kate is less likely to play this way as wolf but I think Kate is unlikely to play this way as either alignment so I'm trying not to read too hard into that

Epi is probs just a wolf.

GGs
Talk to me more about the bolded please. Why the suspicion I have gives you emotions?
I think my feelings for what happened D1 have been pretty on my shoulder and I don't really want to rehash it. I'm acutely aware that my emotional state can sometimes impact my reads negatively.

I am sorry for that, please note that I mean no harm to you personally and it's about game suspicion.

Mafia contains a lot of emotion and I've been highly emotional in games myself until I realised I shouldn't put at heart a game who is supposed to be fun.

Unfortunately if Kate doesn't play she can't be cleared despite the TMI read we have from Brad. And if that is correct for Kate, it can also be for Abigail P#147

Epi is town for the P#160 imo, wolf Brad wouldn't ask a townie why he votes his mate for voting a townie. There's no intent of distancing from Epi either. This is completely unrelated with my TR for Epi's play but it completes it.

Wilgy has zero results in the search in Brad's Iso. This is bothersome

I don't have time to check Wilgy's Iso now but I can do it tomorrow morning (less than 12 hours from now on)

Roxy also doesn't have any mention at the search, but I explained my TR for her.

I need someone who isn't Wiml to post. An opinion/feedback about the above and my suspicion on Wiml would be great.

This is not the first time you pretend I am not worthy your time.
You don't care about my opinon, I don't trust yours.

If I am right there's no way you can agree with me, so I understand your position.

You got it wrong. I don't give you any tips about how you play.

I just explained why I don't trust your read on me.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:59 am Michelle, what's your opinion on what Abigail's gameplan was on D1 if she was wolfing?

Bussing? Trying to cause a wagon on you.

Earlier wasn't a rhetorical question but something I think is genuinely useful to discuss for people who genuinely think that Abigail has wolf equity.

If the team is Brad and Abigail I don't know if they make a plan or they go with the flow. So I have no idea what the wolves are doing in that case.

If the team is Brad and you I expect a plan and a bus from the very moment Brad's play shows that a push on him can be interpreted as a natural move.
I mean the part with voting Falcon is an open wolfing part who is speculated immediatly by you.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:26 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 6:14 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:14 am @Michelle if you think I'm underestimating you as a powerwolf, could you link a couple of the strongest wolf games of yours to prove it?
I think you are underestimating me as a player overall and also you can go to MU and check my wolf games, they are there for everyone to see them.
I also rand wolf with Quin and Golden in the last year Anniversary games here, Kate and Roxy were in the game villagers, maybe Wilgy too but I am nou so sure. I discretly let Golden to bus me when it mattered the most (because of time zones I couldn’t interact with Quin and the villagers lynched me after him).

But studying old games doesn't show new improvement one can have and every player grows at a slow or exponential pace depending on the reasons of growth.

I told you I need to see your use of meta. Until now I am not impressed about it, I am not sure you used it to really solve.

I've read or skimmed through most of your more recent wolf games on MU already so there's probably nothing there that will change my stance.

I'm asking you for a strong game specifically to give you a chance to bring out a wolf game that I haven't read where you can demonstrate that I've underestimated your wolf play since I'm not seeing it.

Meta isn't something that should be overused, I think I've used it pretty effectively this game and absolutely buried a wolf using it. I'm not going to try to shoehorn bad meta takes into my solving to appease anyone.

Regarding my wolf games and meta you say you skimmed, I don't appreciate the way you discuss it. There's no interest in town range from you. In fact for everyone you asked for meta you only talked about wolf range. This seems like a simplistic approach without deep analysis because like we all know you were wrong about Quin as being the apathetic partner of a giving up wolf Brad.

Instead saying I can't do that as a wolf you should point out why doesn't make sense for me as a wolf to do x,y,z things I did this game if you want me to believe your read doesn't come from TMI perspective

You absolutely buried a wolf by saying he can't wolf or something. I don't think that's a correct use of meta.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 9:56 am Town Core

Wilgy
Roxy
Wiml

Probs Michelle is town and I'm letting earlier emotions get to me again.

I think Kate is less likely to play this way as wolf but I think Kate is unlikely to play this way as either alignment so I'm trying not to read too hard into that

Epi is probs just a wolf.

GGs

Talk to me more about the bolded please. Why the suspicion I have gives you emotions?

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:26 am @Michelle sell me on Epi being town?

1. Brad wouldn't push Falcon for a push on his partner.
2. I feel he is a villager. That's hard to explain, but it comes from his righteous tone and interactions whith good energy flow. If you call it intuition you are not far from reality.
3. I think the way he treat Jay is not pockety

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 5:14 am @Michelle if you think I'm underestimating you as a powerwolf, could you link a couple of the strongest wolf games of yours to prove it?

I think you are underestimating me as a player overall and also you can go to MU and check my wolf games, they are there for everyone to see them.
I also rand wolf with Quin and Golden in the last year Anniversary games here, Kate and Roxy were in the game villagers, maybe Wilgy too but I am nou so sure. I discretly let Golden to bus me when it mattered the most (because of time zones I couldn’t interact with Quin and the villagers lynched me after him).

But studying old games doesn't show new improvement one can have and every player grows at a slow or exponential pace depending on the reasons of growth.

I told you I need to see your use of meta. Until now I am not impressed about it, I am not sure you used it to really solve.

Spoiler: show

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:15 pm I was sniped.

I'm not a fan of how Michelle approached the early townreads on both of myself and falcon. For falcon in particular, I think the stated meta reasons (same first post as vocaroo game) are way, way weaker logic-wise than the confidence Michelle showed in the read prior to being asked to explain it.

Especially since my understanding is that both myself and falcon have historically had the reputation of being very easy to find and clear as town (even if that reputation isn't warranted in my case for obvious reasons to anybody who knows me well) and that I think falcon is currently pretty likely to be a villager.

I think this behaviour is >rand likely to come from wolf-Michelle seeing two villagers she knows she has no intention of pushing for a miselim later into this game and shrug-townreading them without thinking it through logically before posting. These sort of hollow reads are something that I was actively looking out for since they seemed pretty common when I did an admittedly quick meta skim of one of her wolf games earlier.

Wiml wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:16 pm Although in the case of Michelle in particular I'm not too worried about misreading her because she seems enthusiastic and my understanding is that she's likely to make herself very easy to find in time if town.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:41 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:14 pm Hi everyone, I waited for this game to start with so much joy and excitement!
Maybe because of the bugs, or because the playerslist is so cool, I let you guess!

Let's have a fun game

Linki: we don't murder people in cold blood, sir, we analyze facts and eliminate the suspects
Vote: Michelle.

Hi.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:28 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.
I think it could be. I know I'm town.

I don't agree with locking falcon town for such weak reasons but I am town leaning falcon.

So to me it's always Michelle or Wiml

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:30 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:10 pm In a 9v2 game, we have three mistakes available without losing the game.

Add three mistakes to the number of mafia (2) to get your target POE pool size of five.

Five correct town reads not including oneself constitutes a complete solve (the remaining five form the POE pool).

These things may be obvious to everyone. I want us to remain mindful anyway.

I have a confident town read (falcon) and two decent town leans (Kate and Abigail). At least two more bright shining civilians would be spectacular.
I always include myself in the PoE pool so I need to find one extra town. That's just my thing but I like to include my possible misexe in the pool giving me a PoE of 4 to win instead and needing one extra town to give a bit of leeway.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:40 pm So it must be Quin, diet Pepsi and poor poor Dr wolfy.

*solved*

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:50 pm Falcon and Quin connection established.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:04 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:49 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 8:40 pm So it must be Quin, diet Pepsi and poor poor Dr wolfy.

*solved*
Is this to suggest you view everyone that has posted so far as civilians?
No lol I was just joking. But in general I fins that most of the early loud players are 90% civ.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:12 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:04 pm No lol I was just joking. But in general I fins that most of the early loud players are 90% civ.
Bummer. I would have enjoyed following that lead.

Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:48 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:47 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:12 pm
Kate wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:04 pm No lol I was just joking. But in general I fins that most of the early loud players are 90% civ.
Bummer. I would have enjoyed following that lead.
Let me consult my crystal ball.
Although if I were wilgy and I randed wolf AGAIN I may not show up

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:05 am I'd also say there's an element of "mindmeld" in my view of Abigail. While my rationale may not align with hers, I had been considering a similar "difference check" angle for Michelle/Wiml that left me in a similar place to the assertion she made about the wagon.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:28 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:26 am Whom I THINK can be a wolf is...

....

....

THIS GUY!!!

[VOTE: Falcon] aubergine

I'd love to hear more about that.
Doesn't seem to care about his vote.

His question towards Epi voting Quinn didn't feel like something he was trying to use to solve Epi and didn't look like he cared about the response.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:32 am Michelle feels better. It's somewhat unusual for someone that I had suspicions of to show up and then change my mind about someone else if my suspicion was right.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.
She has good vibes as wolf too.
You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.

Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:38 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:35 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:34 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 amDoesn't seem to care about his vote.

His question towards Epi voting Quinn didn't feel like something he was trying to use to solve Epi and didn't look like he cared about the response.
Understood, thanks. I'll stow my thoughts until falcon responds to this.
He'll probably post.

Like this.

Thanks for keeping your reads open Brad, this looks good for you

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:39 am Something good
falcon45ca
Kate
Epignosis
Michelle

Undecided
Abigail
Lime Coke
Wiml
Roxy

Nothing
DrWilgy
Quin

I'm at something like this. The names are not ordered within groups, and positions are tenuous. I am less confident in all of these than I would like to be, but one must start somewhere.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:45 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:40 am I think while is night in America the thread will be dead anyway so I am waiting for new inputs before posting more.

If it’s late at you, go to sleep, everyone!
Eh there seems to be a decent amount of posting already but certain slots need to wake up a bit more.

Spoiler: show
Yes I understand glass houses are cheap on Zillow.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:56 am @Lime Coke do you have an initial impression of Wiml?

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:39 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:56 am @Lime Coke do you have an initial impression of Wiml?
Neutral currently since I'm sort of afraid of reading him after failing twice spectating his Champs games.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:43 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:39 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:56 am @Lime Coke do you have an initial impression of Wiml?
Neutral currently since I'm sort of afraid of reading him after failing twice spectating his Champs games.
There's no need for people to force a read on me rn so it's fine.

Now that it's daytime for me and people have posted I've actually got the chance to play for real.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:45 am Uh just want to clarify that despite having a lot of words about my read there that my read / vote on Michelle was more of a RVS + weak scum indicative lean thing and less of a genuine solid scumread thing.

I'm just wordy.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:46 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.
Expand on your thought process behind this, please?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am @Lime Coke why the Falcon vote?

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.
Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.
I never make that post as a wolf lol.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:49 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:46 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.
Expand on your thought process behind this, please?
I had two conflicting impressions: Michelle's reads were hard to buy, and you seemed a bit opportunistic in pushing it the way that you did. That'd suggest one mafia between the two of you without clarity about who. It was more a hunch that I was mulling over, and the term "difference check" generally implies more certitude -- so "softer version of that". I can see you both being town too.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:52 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:49 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:46 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:49 pm I’m considering a Michelle/Wiml “difference check”. That term is too strong for where I stand, but some softer version of that.
Expand on your thought process behind this, please?
I had two conflicting impressions: Michelle's reads were hard to buy, and you seemed a bit opportunistic in pushing it the way that you did. That'd suggest one mafia between the two of you without clarity about who. It was more a hunch that I was mulling over, and the term "difference check" generally implies more certitude -- so "softer version of that". I can see you both being town too.
Alright, seems fair. I tried to make it clear with the follow up post but it really wasn't a strong read on my end - I just had a lot to say since I'd been holding off while Michelle was still answering questions.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:00 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:36 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:21 pm I will explain why I make GTH reads at SoD: it's to see reactions.
They don't have bad reactions, both of them, insta voting me for making an undeserved AI judgement.
You, otoh, you are focused on your image and the way you present yourself and your reads. It may be that you turned into a pedantic player who needs rainbow reads for 4 players.
Or you want to show off and the focus on how you look it's your way to impress the other townies?
@Wiml could you please share your impressions of this post?
I think it's completely fine and plausible to come from.a villager. It's basically what I did with my own push on Michelle.

I think it's also just a very natural excuse to come up with as a wolf and Michelle didn't really go about it in a way that she was actually trying to get reactions from it (even though obviously it did create reactions).

I also agree to her to some extent that you appear very image-conscious and it's one of my biggest concerns with you rn.

Overall, I think it's a perfectly adequate explanation but I don't think it's particularly AI on a first read.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:04 am [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:17 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:13 am The contrary view for Abigail is that she is not engaged or energized in this thread, and that's a stark difference to recent town games. I don't recall seeing her play as mafia and would need to snoop around to determine how meaningful that is.
This is indeed wolf indicative for me.

But must be compared with the general unease I feel about myself and my play right now

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:17 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:56 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Spoiler: show

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.
I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?
No reason it was just a joke.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:18 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:11 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:03 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:00 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:52 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:49 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:46 am

Expand on your thought process behind this, please?
I had two conflicting impressions: Michelle's reads were hard to buy, and you seemed a bit opportunistic in pushing it the way that you did. That'd suggest one mafia between the two of you without clarity about who. It was more a hunch that I was mulling over, and the term "difference check" generally implies more certitude -- so "softer version of that". I can see you both being town too.
Alright, seems fair. I tried to make it clear with the follow up post but it really wasn't a strong read on my end - I just had a lot to say since I'd been holding off while Michelle was still answering questions.
Wiml can you continue here?
Anything in particular you'd like me to expand on?
You said
"I just had a lot to say since I'd been holding off while Michelle was still answering questions."

So your read on me is not fully expressed. I assume you have more to it than in post P#190
I had a lot to say which is part of why my post calling you scummy back last night was so long despite me not actually having a strong read there.

My read on you isn't fully expressed but that's because I haven't dived into your more recent posts in any detail yet.

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:20 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:17 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:56 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:48 am
Spoiler: show

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:41 am
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:47 pm Michelle
Voters: ☆Princess Abigail☆, falcon45ca, Wiml

One of these 4 names is a wolf. Spoiler. It's not me.
Why are you confident that there's specifically one wolf in those four names?

Given that you would know that you're town, I'm not seeing a compelling reason why a two vote wagon on another player during RVS has to contain a wolf within the three names with the confidence you're suggesting here.

Not that I don't think it's very plausible but I'm specifically interested about hearing about why you're so confident about this.

Sir if there is one thing that I am, it is scared.
I am never scared when I am town and when I am wolf I try to hide it. Why are you scared?
No reason it was just a joke.
Really? It didn't seem like one to me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:32 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:31 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:29 am
Michelle wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:27 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:22 am JJJ probably town this game the dude feels way different from his mafia game solve wise.

Michelle I'm actually leaning town on a tad bit.

Annnnd can toss a townlean on Kate and Abigail.
Talk to me about Abigail pls
Mostly vibes while reading her posts.
She has good vibes as wolf too.
You're not wrong.

I'll see how the rest of the day plays out for her I'll tone the read down a bit.
What the actual...

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am This is not real lol

Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:28 am
Wiml wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:26 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:23 am I interpreted Lime Coke's "scared" as a lighthearted (so, "jokey") way of expressing a genuine sentiment -- unease about Wiml.
I interpreted it the same way so I'm not sure what you're meaning?
If I am correct in that interpretation, Lime Coke can validly call it a "joke", but it still demands clarity about what in that post inspired unease about you.

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:31 am It's a read I've used with consistency for months with insanely high accuracy.

The read is the first wagon with 3 votes always had 1 wolf in 4 names

I admittedly forced it here but still.

These are posts I think are useful to reread from the game start until post #220.

Quoted them for further refference

I already said what I wanted to say, and I let people who posted less to shine amd solve.

today is Sunday and also a very special day for me IRL, being the anniversary of my marriage (I forgot about it tbh but our godmother called to wish us the usual good things

). Staying on phone too much is not how I intend to spend this day but tomorrow I am here to play as much as possible

@Kate
@Roxy
@DrWilgy

Please share your thoughts about the game, we need activity here

Wiml wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:31 am Brad just struggles to wolf at low WIM and has to put a lot of effort into wolfing convincingly, I think it's pretty evident that a Brad/x game where x wasn't somebody Brad was confident would go deep would justify his low WIM..

This is the reason you were convinced Quin was bad and justifies further pushes on LHFs and I said Brad is not like that and you avoided that part

The explanation that you didnt consider Quin outed but put him at L-1 at the middle of the DP is like you didnt care to further analyse game posts to check it again.
24 hours, Jay coming back to talk to me and everyone else, Quin coning back and possibly towning up, all these were made impossible because you voted a player you were not sold is a wolf.

And I should believe you are good, because?

To avoid hammer I keep my vote in spirit but remove it from the poll during my night time

I promise I will read Epi's posts in the morning.
Idk why I am awake at 4 am...

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:02 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:16 pm What games we played @☆Princess Abigail☆?
The Champs game, sure, and how many other games?
A few I'm pretty sure but I don't remember specifics

It's the same for me. That's why I can't say I know how you play.
Would that mean the reverse is true and you don't know how I play?

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:24 pm Sure, let's do it

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

From the wording of this post it's like someone else suggested it, but no one asked for hammer at that moment.

I was obviously in the middle of a discussion.
But that discussion could change the thread momentum (explanation for hammer from Wiml earlier today), WIM and etc, so Wiml put Quin at L-1.

Because I was the one who's voice was cut in the middle of an interaction I am frustrated. But that's not the important part, not the fact I couldn’t post makes me wolf read Wiml, it's the meaning of Brad giving up to play with an inactive partner he was pushing so conviced.
I know Brad, I know he grew up as player a lot and I doubt he would let his inactive mate with such a burden. He stayed silent because his mate was town read and he didn't want to ruin his/her town credit.
He hates wolfing? Idk. I never asked him that. But I don't like that kind of meta 'facts' because wolves are often using these to obtain town credit.
Before my wolf game I linked, Brad had a game where he won as the last wolf standing.
It doesn't matter if he likes it or not.
He can do it.

What is important is the next posts from Wiml.
Who is allegedly advising town to keep playing despite a possible town flip from Quin.

It seems for me that Wiml knew that Quin will flip villager, otherwise why the advice if he was convinced the game ends?

Thoughs?

What games we played @☆Princess Abigail☆?
The Champs game, sure, and how many other games?

I said I will not vote but taking that as a shade is not corect.
It's a wolf read so I support it with my vote.

[VOTE: Wiml] aubergine

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:49 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:39 pm
☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 7:11 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:32 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:21 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:58 pm Please don't quickhammer overnight, going to try to put some time aside to deep dive stuff today.
Why did you push for the hammer yday?

I have no intention to vote, nor do I know who I suspect more.

and I have no mental possibility to think much at mafia in the next 24 hours
On a personal level: I was too busy to do much more in depth solving + had low WIM due to threadstate (top scumread inactive is bleh) + thought the game was reasonably likely to end with Quin.

On a group level: basically everyone had supported the hammer and in stagnant situations like this not hammering often has a long term impact on thread WIM. (Technically you can argue that hammering early deprives solving time and is bad but in practice people lose energy and often don't regain that energy at critical moments later so better to trim time that isn't being used and us just draining morale).

I was also an advocate of not hammering for as long as I felt that people were going to use the time effectively but since people didn't seem to be needing that time I considered ~24 hours to be long enough and stated that I was happy to hammer if others were.
At pesonal level I said I can play in the next day.
You ignored the fact I implyed I need time and hammered when I still had time to post.

The rest of what you said is not helpful for town and you didn't even care to answer at my what if Quin is town idea because you brushed it off with generalities like you said above about momentum, WIM, draining morale and all.
Hmm. Vote: Michelle
I'm pretty doubtful that Michelle's a hit here.

Do you have much experience playing with her?
Some. Not a big fan of the shade I'm seeing since SoD.

So it's not true he pushed for hammer when I said I can play next day?
What's the shade here? I am accusing him of wolfing pretty clear.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:44 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:36 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:19 pm My PoE is still Quin/Epi/Kate (with Wilgy if I had to add a 4th).

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:24 pm Fwuw Epi I also don't think you're wolfing.

But I need to think over things some more.
What changed?
I think you're pretty villagery and Kate is individually a lot more likely to be a wolf than you rn. I also think that there's a reasonable chance that the wolf could be above you in my PoE and so want to check people out more thoroughly this day phase.

The latter point is why I very adamantly don't want a hammer.

When you have time, quote what was villagery in Epi's posts of today please

Abigail indirect town case is noted.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:17 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:14 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:06 pm Both from a solving PoV and a threadstate / toxicity one.
Are you sure you want to complain
for toxicity because I suspect you?

What's exactly toxic in what I said?
No, I'm saying that if we continue this line of discussion then it's probably going to end up being toxic (I meant more "unpleasant" than outright toxic but you get the idea) as well as being useless.

That's in part because on my end I'm annoyed with some stuff and don't want to argue with you. I'm not calling you toxic.

I will wait for you to have time to play tomorrow.
I don't let you evade my questions because you can be annoyed at what I say because nothing in my push is personal and it's all in game things

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:56 pm I'll have to double check that Michelle isn't secretly a much better powerwolf than I've given her credit for but the thing she's pushing me for rn is veeeeeeery likely to come from town if you take a close look at her underlying mindset.

I am. What now?

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:06 pm Both from a solving PoV and a threadstate / toxicity one.

Are you sure you want to complain
for toxicity because I suspect you?

What's exactly toxic in what I said?

☆Princess Abigail☆ - possible TMIed villager by Brad, but also my first suspicion itg. I am not sure how her town play evolved because I missed a lot of games but a sense of pride on her solve feels genuine in her posts. Not clearing because she almost won the Champs qualifier because of good tone, so she is close to my Poe

DrWilgy - I said why I think he is a villager. Probably I didn't see him wolfing more than once, but his posts reminds me of villa Wilgy. Not enough to be 100% but I will reread the Iso. He accepted fast the Quin solve, that's a minus because he should know Quin better.

Epignosis - being the interaction with Falcon, I think Epi is also spewed villager. He also should know Quin.

Kate - I will trust Roxy and Jay's sixth sense on that. Not far from Poe because not active enough but also not in the Poe for me

Michelle - town

Roxy - like I said above, a wolf of old school rarely jumps to hammer. It's maybe the most villagery thing I saw in mafia.

Wiml - failed the vibe test, pushed for hammer at the middle of the day, has a bussing attitude towards Brad - the kind of thing I expect happening if the team is formed by both of them, Brad distanced from him very active.

These are my thoughts in this moment.
Honestly we are 6 townies. It doesn't matter if I am right or wrong, if we put our brains together we can solve the game

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:56 pm I'll have to double check that Michelle isn't secretly a much better powerwolf than I've given her credit for but the thing she's pushing me for rn is veeeeeeery likely to come from town if you take a close look at her underlying mindset.

The question is not how good of a wolf I am now, it is how good of a town I am to prove you are a wolf

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:50 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:34 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:22 pm I think hammering or not is completely NAI.

We'd pretty much agreed on it like 2 hours into the day phase lol.
Too bad, I think is AI. You agreed too fast on that and you were so happy to end rhe day and not let me talk with Jay at all.

My vote is on you in this moment.
(This was a response to your questioning of Roxy, not of me)

Pretty sure her behaviour there was completely NAI.

It's not NAI.
Impatiently hammering is very towny, asking left and right why people didn't vote until then.
Roxy is in my townies for that.

I remember I said I am out of town and can play the next day. Otoh I was Iso-ing for writing a post when you pushed for hammer and Roxy voted pretty fast after and I didn't have time to say anything.

I think you wanted the hammer to not lose the easy chop who was so close.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:24 pm To answer Michelle's question, I don't have a "solve" that isn't "Not me."

I'll be back to reassess after I have fucked or fed or ate the queen or whatever my critter does. Although I think I give her presents and then let her cheat on me.

Tyt sir, I thought a lot at the game.

Falcon died because Brad's mate was universally town read and it would be weird to have Jay killed N1 when he TR mafia.
In between, D2, Jay still most probably didn't suspect mafia and left a legacy not including them, but the last mafia was affraid of a teamwork with Jay who could make a better Poe.

I think Wiml fits perfectly in being Brad's mate.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:22 pm I think hammering or not is completely NAI.

We'd pretty much agreed on it like 2 hours into the day phase lol.

Too bad, I think is AI. You agreed too fast on that and you were so happy to end rhe day and not let me talk with Jay at all.

My vote is on you in this moment.

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:21 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:10 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:58 pm Please don't quickhammer overnight, going to try to put some time aside to deep dive stuff today.
Why did you push for the hammer yday?

I have no intention to vote, nor do I know who I suspect more.

and I have no mental possibility to think much at mafia in the next 24 hours
On a personal level: I was too busy to do much more in depth solving + had low WIM due to threadstate (top scumread inactive is bleh) + thought the game was reasonably likely to end with Quin.

On a group level: basically everyone had supported the hammer and in stagnant situations like this not hammering often has a long term impact on thread WIM. (Technically you can argue that hammering early deprives solving time and is bad but in practice people lose energy and often don't regain that energy at critical moments later so better to trim time that isn't being used and us just draining morale).

I was also an advocate of not hammering for as long as I felt that people were going to use the time effectively but since people didn't seem to be needing that time I considered ~24 hours to be long enough and stated that I was happy to hammer if others were.

At pesonal level I said I can play in the next day.
You ignored the fact I implyed I need time and hammered when I still had time to post.

The rest of what you said is not helpful for town and you didn't even care to answer at my what if Quin is town idea because you brushed it off with generalities like you said above about momentum, WIM, draining morale and all.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:18 pm You are bad with Lime Coke. What do you do?

1. Create chaos in thread
2. Have Lime Coke lynch you over clever "slip up"
3. Protect Lime Coke to get through Day 1 whole
4. Try to get JJJ lynched for fun
5. Any or all of the above
6. Squander first time being bad with Lime Coke

Spoiler: show

6. Bus the hell out of my friend Brad, skating all game on the town credit

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:14 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 12:22 pm I try to understand why would Quin give up as villager (because his last post looks like giving up)
And why would he give up as mafia?
The Syndicate has a history of not caring villagers I witnesed in past games and Quin is one of the veteran Syndicalists.
well you are wrong about the history. IMO. Most players I have played over a decade with on this site and others that are now defunct. Quinn is not one of them. But they have been awhile that is for sure.

The older players will fight for their lives as a towny. It is bc original site rules were you had to be alive at the end to win. Not the everyone gets a trophy phase we do today.

So him not fighting *if* they are town is not surprising at all. And sad at the same time bc town could lose just bc he would not fight. Now I am fence riding this elim even tho the case seems solid and several have the same thoughts including me.

ffs some days playing this game is too hard.

I don't remember to answer at this post.
Things changed, look how Quin didn't even try to post a legacy.
You were on the fence, yet you hammered. Can I know why?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:03 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:22 pm Quin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Epi / Kate / Wilgy

I suppose that’ll do as a “full” POE pool.
Second in the queue.

What fun to spend Day 3 convincing these dung beetles that I'm not it.

Spoiler: show

From my PoV I am convinced.
What's your solve?

Wiml wrote: ↑Sat Aug 05, 2023 4:58 pm Please don't quickhammer overnight, going to try to put some time aside to deep dive stuff today.

Why did you push for the hammer yday?

I have no intention to vote, nor do I know who I suspect more.

and I have no mental possibility to think much at mafia in the next 24 hours

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:28 pm I hammered and Michelle not gonna vote - why???????????

Because I don't have to

Spoiler: show

I had these quotes I kept but I didn't have time to say anything about them

Hope Quin flips wolf and you are right and is game over

Kate wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:14 pm Oh shit. Unbelievable day. Want me to hammer? I'm fine. I'll be back tonight and it's my anniversary on top of it!

Ps. Just paid deposit for Andrew to go to college! *sob*

Happy Anniversary Kate!

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:22 pm
Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:19 pm I read the posts and I know I played a few games where players here just gave up as townies. Not this year because I played just a game here but in the last 2 years I noticed people try here more when they rand wolf.
Yeah, you can see villagers give up sometimes but like

Wolves who know they have no hope of succeeding often just don't try because why bother to put effort into something that's fruitless?

Lime Coke had low WIM this game, wouldn't surprise me remotely if the other wolf did and the wolves just didn't feel like they could win.

You gave this reasoning already and I don't agree with it.
I think Brad would try more if he would have an inactive mate.

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:19 pm My PoE is still Quin/Epi/Kate (with Wilgy if I had to add a 4th).

My Poe always contains Abigail

Michelle wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:20 pm
Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:19 pm Alright, I'll move my vote onto Quin shortly then unless anybody requests more time.
Do whatever you want, I will not vote anyway, and I said what I wanted to say.

Ebwop
Autocorrect ..

Wiml wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:19 pm Alright, I'll move my vote onto Quin shortly then unless anybody requests more time.

Do whatsoever you want, I will not vote anyway, and I said what I wanted to say.

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