The Syndicate

1) Congrats are due to Sloonei, dunya and speed for some of the best scum play I’ve ever been privvy to. Sloonei wriggling out of it when he did especially means I will never trust him again!

2) Kudos to town for lynching me when they did; I still disagree pretty solidly with the rationale, but it worked so it obviously wasn’t that bad. You guys gave us a lot of scares and got closer than I would have liked pretty much the whole game.

3) The next time I have the chance to vote off wagon again, you better BELIEVE I’m doing it, regardless of what team I’m on!

Posting at work.

[VOTE: SLOONEI] aubergine

Non-wagon voters, better hitch to one, lest ye be accused and misidentified as scum...

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:42 pm I see you Colin.

Hi.

I believe you believe my guilt, but I think others are taking advantage. Sloonei, Dom, potentially wolbre. At least.

Not gonna repeat myself. Busy, sorry. Check ISO.

Nova, townish. Epi, sig, town. Those were my reads. Again, check ISO.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:42 pm Colin what do you think of Sloonei?

I didn't like his post calling me out at all. It felt superficial, not to mention it didn't hold up as pointed out previously. I have to say I have forgotten how Sloonei plays so I need to reread the substance of your argument again (as well as his responses) but I didn't see anything in it that sounded outright wrong. Lean scum.

As easily I can:

One benefit of voting off-wagon is that it gets the town to think about other candidates, especially if they're someone who has flown under the radar with regards to that lynch. That's the primary reason I decided to follow my gut about lunalee.

Another benefit would be forcing a potential scum to defend themselves. I think other people have sprung to lunalee's defense, so this doesn't seem to have happened too much. But it's definitely something that happens regardless of the context of the vote and it's useful for the town.

A third reason that didn't occur to me at all yesterday, but I can see now, is seeing how people respond. You learn about other people's playstyles and what they consider scummy and you can get a lot out of that to help you with your reads. I'm learning more about the people who are voicing suspicions of me and I'm interested to see who doesn't.

I can understand why people think the timing of my post might be suspicious, but I'll have to politely ask you to disregard that. I would have made the same vote, after reading lunalee's posts and the rest of the thread, if I were able to, but I was at work and barely got my vote in on time anyway. I know you have no reason to believe me there, but it's the truth.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:25 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:19 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:09 am

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:07 am And again, to be clear: Colin wasn't an option because your objective was to break the tie?

My objective is always to vote somewhere it can make a difference. I don't think there is ever any value in town voting off wagon, no matter how much you might think every wagon is civ. I don't care about breaking the tie - I'd have voted my biggest suspect of the three even if it created a tie.

I think there is a difference in game philosophy coming to light here. Voting off wagon has its benefits and I don't want to spell all of them out necessarily, but one is to apply pressure. I felt that lunalee's conduct was the most suspicious of anyone I'd ISO'd that day and certainly more suspicious than the others. And I would rather put pressure on someone who I think may be scum than kill someone who I don't see a case for. Sorry if you think that's bad play, but that's how it is and how it's gonna be.

How do you apply pressure with 8 minutes left before the deadline on someone with 1 vote ?

The game didn't end after the Day 1 lynch, did it?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:22 pm It's not more likely to get scrutinized since the consequences are less important. You weren't trying to hold someone different up to a light since at the time of your vote that lynch wasn't going anywhere. You completely avoided participating in who gets lynched even though you had a choice between 3 people. Or did you read the 3 of us as Town ?

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. By "hold someone different up to a light," I mean precisely that I was calling attention to scummy behavior in lunalee. As far as my reads on you go, refer to the controversial vote-post in question. The case for you was a fiction, the case for sig was fluff and the case for Epi was probably worse than those two.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:22 pm Also, what is your post trying to do here ? Are you using hypotheticals of what is scummier to defend yourself ?

Is this not allowed? In another player, I would see jumping on wagon at EOD as much more scummy than jumping off. That's my point. I guess very few of you agree with it, but I don't think the logic from your perspective adds up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:18 pm Yes Colin. You threw your vote away when it mattered because you know who the Mafia are.

Nope. I have suspects though.

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:09 am

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:07 am And again, to be clear: Colin wasn't an option because your objective was to break the tie?

My objective is always to vote somewhere it can make a difference. I don't think there is ever any value in town voting off wagon, no matter how much you might think every wagon is civ. I don't care about breaking the tie - I'd have voted my biggest suspect of the three even if it created a tie.

I think there is a difference in game philosophy coming to light here. Voting off wagon has its benefits and I don't want to spell all of them out necessarily, but one is to apply pressure. I felt that lunalee's conduct was the most suspicious of anyone I'd ISO'd that day and certainly more suspicious than the others. And I would rather put pressure on someone who I think may be scum than kill someone who I don't see a case for. Sorry if you think that's bad play, but that's how it is and how it's gonna be.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:27 pm Colin, put yourself aside and ask yourself if my case makes sense without you in it.

I don't think it does. I didn't consider that my vote was suspicious at all before I cast it, actually, but in thinking about it, I think the other scenario I outlined in my last post would be more indicative of scum play if I saw it in someone else.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:55 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:26 pm Read Golden's case against me on the last page, and his posts that followed the lynch, and ask yourself, "Does this [the case against Colin] make any sense?"

I'm interested in hearing your answers.

It does make some sense. You voting off-wagon while 3 people are almost tied for the lynch and 1 vote can change everything is suspicious to say the least. It's the bad kind of suspicious.

It doesn't matter how weak the cases against Sig, Epi and me are, I don't believe that after all that happened today you didn't have any read on us three. In the case, you read both 3 of us as Town, you could have voted for your weakest Town read to try to save the two others that you read strongly as Town. You didn't even attempt that and just took the easy way out.

So yeah, you voting off wagon in such a crucial time is bad and Golden's case has merits. This is something a player with inside information (scum) would do since they would know who would flip Town and thus not participate so late in a mislynch to avoid scrutinization.

So I avoided scrutinization by doing something that is more likely to get scrutinized? Not following here. Isn't it scummier to just jump on an easy wagon and parrot some BS reason that somebody else said than to actually try and hold someone different up to a light?

Catch-up time.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:40 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:58 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 pm

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:53 pm [VOTE: Sig] aubergine

[this part]If sig's bad, Colin is bad too.[/right here]

explanation?

Colin's post, boiled down

"I have a reason not to vote nova and a reason not to vote epi and... err... there's one specific post about sig that isn't bad and then nothing changed my mind... so I'll vote off wagon"

All while sig is one vote behind.

Sorry it was Colin, not Scotty. Yes very bad look for Colin.

It's a bad look to vote for somebody I'm suspicious of, as opposed to jumping on a wagon I don't believe in (which, by the way, turned out to be a civ)? Golden's paraphrase of my post here is disingenuous and distorts the character of my message.

If sig is bad, Colin is bad. If sig is good ... well, guess Colin is still bad?

Read Golden's case against me on the last page, and his posts that followed the lynch, and ask yourself, "Does this [the case against Colin] make any sense?"

I'm interested in hearing your answers.

Hopefully after tonight info roles will be able to point us in some better directions.

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:00 pm There is literally no worse place to be than ten minutes before a vote where your vote could betray your connection to a teammate, and I feel like you squeeze a lot of blood right there.

"Squeeze a lot of blood"?

Golden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:55 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:54 pm These wagons suck. At best, I help contribute to a tie-breaker where I think it's probably a civ. Would that be much better?

Much better. If the poll only included those three people, which would you vote for?

I dunno. Pick a number out of a hat. The cases for them are uninspiring at best. At least with lunalee I heard myself getting suspicious alongside someone else.

These wagons suck. At best, I help contribute to a tie-breaker where I think it's probably a civ. Would that be much better?

I don't like the case for nova right now; reading the thread, it looks like it's based on the whole sig thing, but then why wouldn't people just vote sig? Feels weird to me, but sig doesn't seem like scum either. I don't think using hedge words is necessarily a scum tell, I think some people just talk like that (you might notice I say the word "just" about a thousand times a post, for example.) Nothing after that changed my view of him.

I don't think Epignosis is scum right now. I think he doesn't give a shit, but there's a big difference there. I can't support lynching him.

So as far as people who did ping me ... The case against lunalee was interesting. I really don't like the scenario she outlines where Persians conspire on day 1 to lynch dunya, I don't think it's likely and it seems like big buddying. She kind of reminds me of my scum play in FWWM, possibly acting overly friendly as obfuscation. GTH, scum read right now, and that's the best I can go for.

[VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

Other ISOs at random:

Marmot has pretty much just posted jokes, including a silly tentative vote on Sloonei. Is that normal?

JOH is someone I haven't played with before but his ISO is similar to Marmot's.

lapluie has made one post and it's not substantive. Busy, or lurking?

Question for the thread: do you think that posting activity is often alignment indicative, and if so, in what circumstances? We had a bit of debate over this in FE but I'd like to hear more about it now considering we have a lot of high-level posters butting heads.

Golden wrote: ↑Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:01 pm Anyone who says my defence is 'this is my meta, believe me' is avoiding all the substantive answers I also gave to Mac in response to his questions.

I don't mean to reduce your entire position to that, but rather I'm saying it's a line of reasoning that I don't (and can't, because we've never played together) agree with and it pinged me.

People who have played a lot with Golden, who haven't weighed in: what say you?

Some thoughts:

Scotty's drunk posts make me read him as town, simply because I don't think a scum would try to play drunk. I'll stand corrected if anybody can counter.

Between Mac and Golden, I'm more impressed by Mac. He's my strongest town read right now, I think he's digging pretty deep into posts and asking good questions. On the other side, I don't know how Golden plays but but I think the defense of "this is my meta, you should believe me" is pretty weak.

I always have a really hard time getting a read on dunya. Same for MP in this game — I think he legitimately believes Golden is town, but that's all I can really feel from his posts.

I don't really get why Sloonei voted for me in particular, and I also think it's weird that he said the same thing I did in the post in question.

Choutas feels town to me, really clear-cut contributions that I agree with but I haven't played with him in so long that I can't remember what he plays like.

I have no idea what Epi is doing.

Holy wow, you people have posted a lot.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:55 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:44 pm I should let you all know that I just started a new job so I have less time overall right now, and if it seems like I'm lurking, I more than likely just haven't seen the thread yet.

Hello, it’s good to be playing with you again. Got any thoughts on things so far?

Up to this quoted post, nothing seems alignment indicative to me. If anything, town arguing with town, but I'm not comfortable labeling anybody yet. I kinda hate this initial phase because it's really just

I should let you all know that I just started a new job so I have less time overall right now, and if it seems like I'm lurking, I more than likely just haven't seen the thread yet.

I wonder what playing Mafia with Socrates would be like