The Syndicate

also, from your side, this is the logic I thought through that would implicate marmot. and that didn't work out

idk feels like if my role were a wolf fake claim then the inventor would have claimed it, no

wait, you know this

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:31 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:29 pm Grogu vaguely claimed information on day 2 that implied that falcon had targeted alison. barring this being a shot in the dark and a wolf claiming information based on nothing for no reason, my guess is that somehow grogu either knew that falcon targeted alison or at least knew falcon or alison's role or something that would lead to him making this conclusion.
Grogu had an inventor handing him inventions, didn't he?

Most of the wolf fakeclaims MAKE SENSE for them, like the BoS messenger and the wolf messenger.

Tony's claim is that the last wolf must be a tracker, but if that was the case, the tracker's fakeclaim would have to be Marmot.

Wolves have an inventor though, and you know what role is perfect cover for an inventor? An inventor.

Everything is in the setup, all the information is there. There are clear fakeclaim pairs for pretty much everyone in Enclave, VC, and slaver, JUST LIKE JJJ designed it!

The wolves talked about inventors multiple times. They knew one existed. Grogu used inventions almost assuredly. Neither Nook nor Sloonei made indications that they used inventions. Why wouldn't they hint if it meant possibly clearing someone?

bad news, jack flipped inventor. and he didn't claim my role. because I had it.

Town:

doppelgangsters
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewforum.php?f=276

I'm fuskdall here, this was a good game.

GOC 2020:
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... =42&t=2044

think I got modkilled here. whoops.

Wolf:

Nanook is a bastard:
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 276&t=2012

MTG:
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 276&t=2063

I subbed in day 3 here, so YMMV. the previous wolf game was the aforementioned mysterious universe.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:24 am what the fuck is this TSP chopchop read I'm kinda ???????????????????????????? Right now

Don't like it at all

Can you explain more TSP?

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:34 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:31 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:29 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:25 am
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:24 am what the fuck is this TSP chopchop read I'm kinda ???????????????????????????? Right now

Don't like it at all

Can you explain more TSP?
Maybe when I get to a computer. But read the first 20-30 posts in their iso (starting day 1). Tell me that you see something that is not a wolf
idk what this means
Read Chop’s posts and tell me they’re town. It feels like every single one gives off wolf vibes
I see

I was just confused then because I thought you town read him

He is very probably a wolf, yes

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:35 am
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:23 am I mean like my overall playstyle. I think you’re closer to my town game than wolf game too. I just mean that I look at the first page of your ISO and I think “why do I need to bother keep looking all of the info is right here”
This post confused me because you said they're closer to your town game than wolf game so I was very ???

Sorry for the miscommunication

to whatever Sean said about esooa scumreading me, this uh is not a set of posts that suggests that

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:16 pm Alison my feeling is that in Mysterious Universe I intentionally gave wide SRs and shorter posts to flood the thread. I had 20 percent of the total posts in that game or something. Here I’ve posted less and longer (part due to circumstance) and I’ve taken more deliberate stances in the thread.

though here's the real lol

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:05 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:02 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:00 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:58 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:56 pm What do you do IRL TSP? I'm seeing you talk about math problems in your ISO, and earlier you mentioned Kant, so I am curious.
I'm a student. I do a whole lot of things usually, but I go on spring break in two minutes so hopefully I'll have an opportunity to catch up on sleep
What do you study?
Music, math, philosophy. Sometimes international political economy on the side.
Cool, I'm a mathematician (on the art side of mathematics, not the science side), and philosophy was always one of those things that I could have seen myself doing, if it wasn't for math.

it's all the art side

yes because things happened in between and also the boggling part there is not the saying that KZA is town

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:00 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:58 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:56 pm What do you do IRL TSP? I'm seeing you talk about math problems in your ISO, and earlier you mentioned Kant, so I am curious.
I'm a student. I do a whole lot of things usually, but I go on spring break in two minutes so hopefully I'll have an opportunity to catch up on sleep
What do you study?

Music, math, philosophy. Sometimes international political economy on the side.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:59 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:21 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:19 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:15 pm so many things itt are just absolutely mind boggling
Top 5 Mind Boggling Thread Events plz
4) falcon being convinced that alison is the neutral
4) anyone townreading chop
3) whoever made the post preflipping sloonei and saying that KZA was town
2) sloonei specifically saying that he srs daisy (which he does not he's just saying words)
1) chop claiming a scumslip
interesting!

It was marmot

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:56 pm What do you do IRL TSP? I'm seeing you talk about math problems in your ISO, and earlier you mentioned Kant, so I am curious.

I'm a student. I do a whole lot of things usually, but I go on spring break in two minutes so hopefully I'll have an opportunity to catch up on sleep

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:53 pm Whom else did you target?

sloonei, 2

[/quote]

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:28 am You're a 2-shot inventor. Your mind is the odds on favorite to acquire the coveted Excavator Chip, which will give you a decided technological edge. Twice during the game during any separate night phases, you may select a player. That player will be given a 1-shot ability randomized from the following set: [role block, track, doctor, non-fatal jailkeep, limited role cop].

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:50 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:49 pm
Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:48 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:28 pm @Urist From your perspective, you know that the Redding faction has only one person in it... What do you think is more likely, that JJJ gives the 1-person Redding faction one of the most powerful Redding roles (1-shot vig plus 2 double votes), or a Redding role that can only support other factions (2 shot inventor)?
Vig seems a little too powerful a role for a faction that only needs one extra person dead tbqh.
Also I'm trying to figure out how Nanook countered DOOM, I'm not sure a track invention really lines up with that?
I was thinking limited role cop.
Is that what you sent him?

I don't get to choose

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:48 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:28 pm @Urist From your perspective, you know that the Redding faction has only one person in it... What do you think is more likely, that JJJ gives the 1-person Redding faction one of the most powerful Redding roles (1-shot vig plus 2 double votes), or a Redding role that can only support other factions (2 shot inventor)?
Vig seems a little too powerful a role for a faction that only needs one extra person dead tbqh.
Also I'm trying to figure out how Nanook countered DOOM, I'm not sure a track invention really lines up with that?

I was thinking limited role cop.

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:45 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:16 pm KZA's block (accounts for n2 miss)
KZA couldn't block fatal actions.

i knew this at some point in the past and forgot it

sean did a quick "not sure if I'm voting for tsp or urist, oh, looks like tsp is probably voting for me, my mind's made up" there

Urist wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:35 pm so salty that i was left alive

i tried :P

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:39 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:31 pm because I just copied and pasted from marmot and he had all of it. i even made the unimportant days tinier
Okay, fair. I didn't see the "stolen from Marmot" thing at the top.

Was any of the analysis of the data Marmot's, or was all that yours?

the stream of consciousness text is mine, all of the /killed bys/ are marmots but I changed some.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:33 pm Third Shower thought:

@TonyStarkPrime why can't I find any indication of a townread of Nook in your D1 ISO?

ask me a month ago

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:57 pm okay, four pages of TSP's iso to go! Only... 20... more...

Once I read all of it, I'll have more to say, but initial thoughts, TSP interacts a TONNNNN with Chop and Jack, and less with others. I'm going to be very curious to see where TSP's suspicion of Jack goes since it seems to have evaporated by the time I got into the thread, even though right now he is definitely pushing them as his main reads pretty hard early on. Is TSP just SPOT ON this game, or is this TMI? We find out in 46 hours!

Also this seems like bs: I had an associative read on both you and Jack off of Chop on day 2 and I had a town read on Jack on day 1.

ask him why he put all of the data in the post

because I just copied and pasted from marmot and he had all of it. i even made the unimportant days tinier

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:51 pm @Urist How well do you know TSP meta-wise?

He starts talking about how bad the wolf team is as early as D2, and is still talking about it now. I've only seen him as town and I don't remember him ever talking bad about the wolves, granted my experience is very limited. I point this out simply because I think many people would not really talk bad about the wolves if they were town because it can come off as kind of rude, but might do it as a wolf because it is different since the wolves clearly know it is an act. IDK TSP well enough to make a judgement call on this, but I did find it weird that even as early as D2, TSP is talking about wolves making questionable decisions and not playing optimally etc.

I will note the context of a wolf team member dedicating all of his thread energy to berating me for several days as a possible reason for my more abrasive tone.

Assuming it was a shot in the dark is a possibility too I guess

and actually if grogu had any sort of information I think that he knew that alison was the slaver which ixnays that entire line

Grogu vaguely claimed information on day 2 that implied that falcon had targeted alison. barring this being a shot in the dark and a wolf claiming information based on nothing for no reason, my guess is that somehow grogu either knew that falcon targeted alison or at least knew falcon or alison's role or something that would lead to him making this conclusion.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:09 pm Okay, so thoughts before I start digging into ISOs.

If Urist is mafia, then the lack of NK whatever night that was is still unexplained. Since Chop guessed wrong on Alison, it seems pretty likely that scum didn't try to NK Alison (also if there was reason to believe she was slaver, idk why they would anyways?). Urist did give me some weird vibes at times around this, but since no other protective roles have popped up, and TSP's claimed role can't protect, I have to do some pretty big mental gymnastics to make the world make sense with scum!Urist.

On the other hand, when I got into the thread, TSP seemed to have reasonable towncred, and many people were reading him as town. I asked about this a few times, and most people weren't really willing to go into detail, which I understand but I think is pretty unfortunate at this point. SInce my arrival in the thread though, I think TSP has done very little, and I know some of the people who were heavily townreading him when I first came in had moved him to the upper PoE before death, so idk if his early game towncred should be given too much weight here. I was also REALLY hoping someone alive could confirm his claim, and I think it doesn't look good that he claimed to give stuff to Nook and Sloonei, but they both have been dead for quite a while. I also think it is at least a little weird that if TSP had doubts about Poison or Syn, that TSP didn't claim sooner when people were clearing my slot for being the only Redding alive, but I suppose I should withold judgement on that until I actually see some of how TSP interacted with my slot before my arrival in it.

TSP, you said you thought Nook used the invention you gave to him on Made. Can you find whatever Nook said to make you think that and quote it by any chance?

Urist, I think maybe you did this at some point, but can you detail all your actions (night, target, and possibly some thoughts as to why you did what you did?

TSP, can you do the same? I know you mentioned your actions the other day, but I think maybe hearing why you decided on the targets you did would help. Also TSP I'd like to know why you used all your actions in the first two nights.

Right now I am definitely leaning towards voting TSP over Urist, but I am going to try to read as much of both your ISOs before I commit to anything.

It was over a month ago I don't really remember. I gave some details as to why I chose who I chose when I shared, but I'll restate approximately why: nanook is good around mech and was pretty town and wasn't gonna get shot, sloonei was really town. You might say "well tsp, isn't this a contradiction? why did you target someone who wasn't gonna get shot and then target someone who was gonna get shot?" I refer you to the above note: it was a month ago. I seem to recall believing that there was some reason that sloonei wouldn't get shot night 2. Maybe he was being pressured, and I thought scum might try to push him, ergo, not getting shot? who knows. I used my shots on nights 1 and 2 because you should always use your powers early. and also, inventor takes a night to get going. no reason to wait, maximize utility by maximizing the odds that the person you target is alive for two-three days.

on terms of other things: on me having doubts on poison/syn: at the time there were bigger fish to fry, particularly those named chop. I was very clear that I thought poison/syn/you shouldn't be cleared for your alignment, it should have been decently obvious what alignment I was claiming. I didn't really interact with poison/syn. no opportunity to do so. To be honest I believed the syn claim initially just because jay running this setup without Village having any KP seemed a little ??. But sprityo shot grogu and cleared that one up.

stolen from marmot:

Day 1

c4e5g3d5 - Slaver day-vig
DrWilgy - Vault City standard nightkill?
Esooa - Enclave standard nightkill
[this spot intentionally left blank -- actual VC kill? vig shot?]

Day 2

staypositivefriend - Enclave standard nightkill
[this space intentionally left blank but KZA claimed a block on mac n2 so like ok]

Day 3

Sloonei - Enclave standard nightkill
KZA - ?
[this space intentionally left blank]

Day 4

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - Enclave standard nightkill

Day 5

[this space intentionally left blank]

Day 6

Epignosis - Frank Horrigan janitored nightkill

Day 7

reywaS / Kylemii - Enclave standard nightkill
Grogu - Joshua vig

Day 8

Spacedaisy / sprityo - Enclave standard nightkill

Day 9

MartinGG99 - Enclave standard nightkill

Day 10

MartinGG99 - Enclave standard nightkill

OTHER THINGS THAT CAN STOP KILLS IN THIS SETUP:
Alison's bulletproof vest (accounts for n3 miss or n1 miss depending on how you look at it -- probably stopped a night kill from Mac, betting on n3)
Mac's doctor ability (accounts for n1 miss)
KZA's block (accounts for n2 miss)
Enclave doctor, blocker, whatever (cannot account for day 5 unless conspiracy theory below)

However, if Sean is town, then it must be that Alison's bulletproof vest either stopped the n5 kill (which is implausible), or that Enclave shot X and docced X simultaneously, or something else here is wrong.

Let's assume the best case: mac never shot, wolves never figured out who Alison was before n5. this is possible. in this case, however, the wolves would have figured out who alison is on n5, presumably avoiding catastrophe? idk.
actually. maybe they did and that's why chop went from alison is slaver to alison is not slaver, because he didn't believe it before and he did believe it after. Then also the wolves vig shot Wilgy day 1 because he claimed doctor. this is a step away still; grogu needed information to do the whole falcon thing. so assume the last wolf is the tracker/blocker. grogu claims the info cause team is disorganized, no one claims anything that makes sense because ?.

There is, afaict, only one other possible case where Syn is telling the truth (and ergo urist is lying): Mafia doc and shoot the same person in the same night. now, this would be a stupid thing to do, but this mafia has shown itself to do stupid things. I'm trying to figure out if I should consider this case.

But outside of mechanics, I'm just not sure if I can really reevaluate on all this. I didn't really ever read Urist's iso yesterday, I'll give it a fair shake today. But don't know how much will come of it.

task failed successfully, I suppose

vote: no elim

I’ll give Sean a day I guess

My Kant prof wants this paper at some point and I want peace of mind

Urist wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:32 am We've spent a month on this game already, I don't see why we'd rush things now.

I have work to do and instead read Marmot’s entire iso twice

I'm voting with 6 hours left and I won't be in the thread much before that and I won't be in the thread much after that. so.

Then at some point I'mma make an Epi style wall and post it and vote and be epicly wrong

I think we should vote today and it's just to like save me some time but I think our conclusion seems reasonably established at this point. I'll wait for marmot to do the isos and urist to try to convince me that this is a bad idea, but not sure if either will say anything that makes me change my mind.

i just need a friend

probably made my life slightly harder though

regretting voicing opinions on nightkills but I'm also generally bewildered this game

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:16 pm like we've done a lot of bad role assigning in this game but I think we did good role assigning on Grogu and that's why he was chopped

well you know

marmot are you around to do isos? you said you planned to do them

like we've done a lot of bad role assigning in this game but I think we did good role assigning on Grogu and that's why he was chopped

gotta be honest I didn't place you on that role for a long time because grogu was still claiming that role

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:10 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:11 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:03 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:25 pm the thing is if I clear marmot it's mostly for what would in that world be a failed attempt to counterclaim me and a successful accidental counterclaim of a wolf and I kinda don't want to give anyone passes for mechanical snafus given how the wolf team has behaved thusfar

huh?
I don’t know how to un-“huh?” this for you

I wasn't counterclaiming anybody. I was holding out for you to claim because I'd copped you and wanted to verify. As for Grogu, it's not my fault people incorrectly assigned roles to him.

Also, you sort of figured out my role a while ago and asked me so many questions about it, I had to steer you away to redirect attention.

The best way to phrase the grogu thing is the thing that Urist just said

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:11 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:03 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:25 pm the thing is if I clear marmot it's mostly for what would in that world be a failed attempt to counterclaim me and a successful accidental counterclaim of a wolf and I kinda don't want to give anyone passes for mechanical snafus given how the wolf team has behaved thusfar

huh?
I don’t know how to un-“huh?” this for you

I mean okay it's a Derridean sentence so I will break it apart.

In my view, the two towniest things that you have done are, in order:

1) claim the role that grogu was softing. This led to a wolf being killed and it is generally towny to do things that kill wolves

2) role cop me and present your result as if you had caught me in a lie, when in fact you had caught me in a truth. if you were a wolf I don't think you would have done it like this, you would have either affirmed that I am in fact my role (strengthening support for your claim) or you would have succeeded in claiming a result that would imply that I was lying. There would be no need for something flashy that could easily be host confirmed, and if you were a wolf planning a big gambit I think you would have tried something that would last more than 11 posts

Urist wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:37 pm I think it's probably fair to say that if the scum had marmot's role as a fakeclaim, they'd probably just have grogu claim that instead of marmot.

In one sense: obviously.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:03 pm
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 3:25 pm the thing is if I clear marmot it's mostly for what would in that world be a failed attempt to counterclaim me and a successful accidental counterclaim of a wolf and I kinda don't want to give anyone passes for mechanical snafus given how the wolf team has behaved thusfar

huh?

I don’t know how to un-“huh?” this for you

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