The Syndicate

EBWOP: Don't ISO MP

Sloon and LC feel different than normal. To me.

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention] Please just ISO a few people and make a vote. There's not much to catch you up on, MP's been filling the thread with thoughts and everyone else is too busy to comment or pull discussion out of it.

Is filling the thread with rambling and back-and-forth thoughts to the point that nobody can discuss everything that is brought up a scum move? :P

Wow. Short ISO.

I think I feel pretty good about lynching Eloh or Malakim. If anyone in this game (looking at like half a dozen people) want to contribute today, give that a nudge. Or provide a case on LC, maybe. This ain't a five player game.

I mean, I'm in. Maybe. Looking at Blooper as I get the chance. Busy day at work.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:43 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:42 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:38 am want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

On a side note, I am 99% certain that there is at least one scumperson in these four. In a game this big, that isn't saying much, but my eagle-eye view says that with the direction this game is going, and the focus/back and forth reads between these four don't really allow for a town/town/town/town thing.

Could you elaborate on what's driving these four apart in your view? Unless you're already working on a detailed response to this question, then you can ignore it.

I was working on a detailed response, so I guess I'll just ignore it now.

All kidding aside. Eloh is not aligned with Malakim. Malakim is not aligned with MP. Some of these have anti-alignment with blooper as well. At the same time, we've had heat on all four at various points, and then it kinda fizzled. It feels like discussion talks about lynching them a bit, but near dayend someone shifts discussion to a third unrelated party and BAM! Dead townie. On second thought, I could include LC in the group.

So in short, my gut tells me there's a scum or two in here, because of:
1. Antialignments between these four
2. The way that discussion shift away from some of them at dayend without them actually becoming less suspish.
3. The results of our lynches, after focusing on different things all day, we lynch someone unrelated to this grouping.

My reasoning is never very clean. For the record, I have a town read on MP, a slight town read on malakim after the ISO, iffy scum read on Eloh (her defense on late D2 actually looked really good. Still would have voted her over Dom though) and a soon-to-be-rectified 'idunno' read on Blooper.

Malakim:
Early on suspects one of LC or MP. Nervous about Elohcin.
Chats with Dunya about suspicions, says: "I like what you've said so far. Which probably means you're mafia and suckering me in." My gut says feels fake. Don't like that.
The post after that is also eeeehhhh. He's leaning toward suspecting MP and Eloh, but then throws shade on his own read by joking about JoH being scum. Subtle, but fishy.
Bases his reads on MP and Eloh from the D1 lurker lynch.
Backs off a bit when Eloh claims that MP's meta makes these reads moot.
Continues to back off completely. Places suspish on Simon instead, of all people, for... role fishing.
Impression list: It's pretty wishy-washy. Throws shade on Simon and tentatively on LC. Gives up on reading Eloh. A few town-ish reads as well, on MP, Diiny, JoH, and Sloon.
Bleh. Wordy clarifications.
Long post about the MP/Dom/LC thing, ends up placing suspicion on Simon, LC, and Dom.
Goes back and forth on Eloh some more, votes for her. Really doubt their alignment.
Apparently plays Pathfinder. Fun stuff.
Backs off of LC at the slightest provocation.
Rainbow list: Simon and Eloh at the bottom. DF and Blooper just above. LC is townread now. Uh.

In short malakim has been floundering just like everyone else this game. Could be scum. Almost certainly not scum with Eloh or MP.
I made this summary with as critical an eye as I could muster, and I'm not really convinced either way. Bleh.

[mention]malakim2099[/mention]:
Can you make a strong (or just detailed) case on someone you suspect?
If Eloh is scum, who do you think is scum with her? Other than maybe Simon?
What class do you play in Pathfinder?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:38 am want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

On a side note, I am 99% certain that there is at least one scumperson in these four. In a game this big, that isn't saying much, but my eagle-eye view says that with the direction this game is going, and the focus/back and forth reads between these four don't really allow for a town/town/town/town thing.

Players Dunya suspected: LC, Blooper, and malakim
So if there's silencing motive in there, it's with these.

I really hate that I wasn't around for dayend yesterday. And that I didn't vote when I thought I did. Hrg. I currently want to place a lynch between Eloh or malakim, and to a lesser extent, MP and Blooper.

Why those four? Because we can lynch and get some freaking information. Dom and Bass weren't linked to anybody in any way. Their reads/actions were basically isolated. Our lynches have sucked this game. I'm going to do some ISO stuff today. Nothing big to put in thread, probably, unless I find a case to make. I just want some better reads.

Eloh. You are not crazy. But please explain how this makes Blooper scummy? Why would scum be any more likely to have this particular inconsistency than town?

It's easy to look for inconsistencies in posts and point at them and say "THAT'S SCUM BEHAVIOR" but it isn't always. Blooper clearly wasn't looking to buy herself some time, or they wouldn't have come back to generate content. Blooper wasn't lying about reads or making excuses for scummy behavior.

Far as I can tell, Blooper either took a powernap, had some thoughts about mafia after waking, and soon posted them. Or maybe after laying in bed for a few minutes Blooper felt more refreshed.

I'm not saying that it isn't weird. I am trying to figure out why scum would claim to take a nap and then post in forty minutes.

. . .

And it took this long for me to realize you were implying the existence of a BTSC team. I'll have to reread the post and see if the opinions looked like Blooper's. Lol. Posting this anyway.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:40 pm Also, malakim's misinterpretation of context, intentional baddie move or innocent Civ mistake?

Not certain.

Depends on how good malakim is at scumhunting. Or, moreso, how much he/she thinks like I do. I could see it either way.

Scum mindset is looking for mistakes. So any apparent mistake, like contradicting yourself, is a gold mine for suspicion. But some town people hunt like that as well.

Eloh's responses... some look really good, some don't. I don't see how the nap thing points to a scumread. Why would scum say that rather than town? Asking you, mostly, Eloh.

malakim2099 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm Elo, I feel that in an OT sense she's being very helpful and I think that's messing with my read of her. But now that MP posted the other observations, particularly her lack of reads... I'm inclined to Vote Elohcin as well. It feels like she's coasting a bit. Maybe I'm crazy.

Making me feel a bit less good about Eloh/malakim alignment. Only a little tho.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:35 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:27 pm malakim possible w/w with Eloh. Would rather lynch Eloh than malakim I think. Positive results will spur a look at malakim.

Gotta say I'm not huge on lynching blooper or LC

I'll leave my vote on Eloh for now. Sorry I can't be active more around dayend. Family.

Can you explain why when you get the chance?

LC's response to your pressure and the way he's doubting everything just feels town to me. Specifically LC brand flavor of town. Town that doesn't give a single crap who he targets for suspicion and doesn't care about looking scummy and won't let anyone get too comfortable.

Blooper has looked fine to me all game. The supposed contradiction that blooper was called out for made sense in context if you assume blooper is thinking flexibly, trying to catch people with too much show or too little participation. Rather than try and seem consistent, bloops is trying to hunt, and at least following a pretty good method IMO. Haven't zeroed in enough to grade performance, but I like the flexible focus.

Diiny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:10 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 pm
linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.

what if that's what they want you to think
welcome to wifom hell.

Buddy you should have seen me in night vale. I literally researched games I wasn't on this site for to introduce new wine.

Dammit. I thought I voted for Eloh before I left.

malakim possible w/w with Eloh. Would rather lynch Eloh than malakim I think. Positive results will spur a look at malakim.

Gotta say I'm not huge on lynching blooper or LC

I'll leave my vote on Eloh for now. Sorry I can't be active more around dayend. Family.

I could vote Eloh to try my luck with nightkill analysis, or Dom. I'll vote before dayend, but I don't think I'll be around for it. Considering.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:45 pm i'm sorry i cant contribute more, i really am sick. i read a few old games in hopes of getting a gleam into people's playstyle and it's been useful but im dying

Don't die.

And don't despair about your contributions. I'm pretty sure you've done a lot today.

While I follow your train of thought, Blooper, trust me on this: I'm not doing wacky crap to show out on D1 just because you were looking for the opposite. I don't WIFOM for just one person.

I do it for everyone. I am the WIFOM master.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:07 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:19 am JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Just to put forth an alternate opinion, since you seem very sure of this one: when I'm on a bad team, especially night 1, deciding on who to kill is usually something that happens after the lynch is done. If MP07 is bad, then I doubt that he crafted his posts around who was going to be killed night 1. I don't agree with your clearing of him, based on that.

Well, here's another way at looking at it: If MP is bad, he knows JoH is good. For him to suspect JoH like he did would mean he has some hope of making JoH look bad, I.E. making him a mislynch.
If MP thinks he can get JoH mislynched, why would he kill JoH?
I am leaving out some factors. Perhaps teammates drove the decision. Perhaps JoH shone so brightly on night 1 that MP gave up on the prospective shade-casting and just killed him. But I don't think so.

MP isn't cleared, for sure. But I'm not voting him today barring some change in circumstances.

linki: This isn't really an argument I'd shoot down with "but wifom, though." Scum isn't going to base their entire nightkill on some weird backward motive play based on the day's previous posts.

speedchuck
Bass_the_Clever
Jackofhearts2005

MovingPictures07
Long Con
Diiny
Simon
dunya
DFaraday
Dom
DrWilgy
Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay
nijuukyugou
Elohcin
malakim2099

This isn't as distinct a rainbow as I'd hoped, and I feel like it's being influenced too heavily by my Eloh/malakim theory. Bah. I need to read more. I am feeling pretty darn good about my top read, though.

JoH was killed by the mafia. Thus:

MP is most likely town. If he were on a scumteam that was planning to kill Jack, he wouldn't have wasted a scumread on the guy. Rather, MP would have townread Jack and agreed with any wrong assumptions jack made until he died. I'm not even assuming optimal play here. MP wouldn't waste the time looking for a scumread on a guy he's going to kill.

Eloh doesn't look good from this, though it could be a framing job. JoH was the only player who really questioned/suspected Eloh. To kill him is either exactly what it looks like (mafia Eloh shutting him up), or someone who wants us to think that.

Malakim could be Eloh teammate.

Rainbow incoming.

After further consideration, Eloh's not currently on my lynch-list. Sorry Jack. As usual, I'm townreading you while disagreeing with you. Eloh is an interesting study. Looking at her meta: Sometimes she's more active than other times, sometimes more confident, and her tone changes from game to game. I believe this game to be closer, tone-wise, to one of her town games. But only marginally.

I'm more interested in possible co-alignments, which is where you seemed to be headed. And I've seen little that suggests Eloh's coalignment with anyone.

I'll provide a full readlist on D2. Tomorrow morning, my time.

On the downside:

Simon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:46 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:26 am I want some non-role-related reads from Simon.

MovingPictures looks good to me. He's talking a lot and being a leader.

Don't like this. It's easy, and it has nothing to do with him being town or scum. Leaders are dangerous that way. And that's only one person. More pls.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck

What do you think of Eloh?

ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.

Care to elaborate?

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:18 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:38 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck

What do you think of Eloh?

ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.

Why?

Sloonei, I need you to step it up here. Please share literally whatever thoughts you have about any of the players in the game.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:59 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:26 am Dii is prob town, I think. Despite this next comment.

The push on LC to clarify why he didn't use OT green text to comment on sloonei is pretty much the silliest (to use a nice word) exchange I've ever seen. It made LC look better for no reason. I'm not going to read into the thing on LC much. LC's defense was good, but any townie or scummie can defend against a stupid argument. Hmph.

Tinfoil MP/LC scumteam, with all the buddying and false accusations between them. Just doesn't sit well with me.

...I'm confused.

Why did you vote for LC then?

At the time I voted for LC, I hadn't read the thread at all. I only voted him as a counterwagon to Bass so people would have a choice. Heck, at the time I didn't even know bass was a no-show.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:12 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:35 pm I thought Eloh was wushu washy in Nightvake in the exact same way she is here.

She went back and forth in night vale, but not usually in the same post. A sampling of her D1/N1 posts that game:

"I actually like this response to Epi. I think if someone grasps onto this "reason" for why Tony may be mafia, they should be looked at more closely as maybe being mafia themselves."

"So in other words, you're going to vote for someone based on your weaknesses? I think you may have my vote."

"If I could cqhnge my vote it would be to you. You're acting very scummy."

"I think I'm seeing a town golden."

"Who was it that said, "please don't vote jack" out of nowhere yesterday at end of day 1? I wanted to inquire about that."
Me, that was me. I did that. "Why did you say it?"

In night vale, Eloh flopped back and forth, sure. But she made statements. She called out things, questioned people, made calls on reads. Whereas in this game Eloh has been wishy-washy. I know it's backwards, but meta-wise: Is Eloh's current act just town unsureness?
Or is Eloh's more confident act something she does when scumhunting, since night vale had two scumteams? That would make her more scummy this game.

linki: Because of her non-committal statements, Sloon. I'm trying to figure out if Eloh's meta points one way or another right now.

How's about

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 42#p365942

and

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 30#p366030


Pretending not to understand a case and jump the gun voting for someone she doesn't actually suspect? That's what bad Eloh did in Nightvale and that looks like what she's doing here, too.

Hmm

It's a bit different with unchangeable votes, but otherwise, I do agree. There are similarities as well. Do you think the similarities outweigh the difference in tone that I demonstrated?

@anybody: If you can follow this discussion, please, give your thoughts on it

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:35 pm I thought Eloh was wushu washy in Nightvake in the exact same way she is here.

She went back and forth in night vale, but not usually in the same post. A sampling of her D1/N1 posts that game:

"I actually like this response to Epi. I think if someone grasps onto this "reason" for why Tony may be mafia, they should be looked at more closely as maybe being mafia themselves."

"So in other words, you're going to vote for someone based on your weaknesses? I think you may have my vote."

"If I could cqhnge my vote it would be to you. You're acting very scummy."

"I think I'm seeing a town golden."

"Who was it that said, "please don't vote jack" out of nowhere yesterday at end of day 1? I wanted to inquire about that."
Me, that was me. I did that. "Why did you say it?"

In night vale, Eloh flopped back and forth, sure. But she made statements. She called out things, questioned people, made calls on reads. Whereas in this game Eloh has been wishy-washy. I know it's backwards, but meta-wise: Is Eloh's current act just town unsureness?
Or is Eloh's more confident act something she does when scumhunting, since night vale had two scumteams? That would make her more scummy this game.

linki: Because of her non-committal statements, Sloon. I'm trying to figure out if Eloh's meta points one way or another right now.

DFaraday wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:15 am Sorry! I'm here now and catching up.

Good luck. MP's been on a rampage.

If you could weigh in on Sloonei, MP, Eloh, LC, Diiny, and Simon, that seems to be the focus of discussion. And me.

Or heck, make a rainbow. The game isn't huge.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:26 amTinfoil MP/LC scumteam, with all the buddying and false accusations between them. Just doesn't sit well with me.

Ugh.

IKR? I generally don't follow tinfoil.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:52 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck
What do you think of Eloh?

ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.

Assume Eloh is bad (cause this is otherwise a worthless exercise).

What do you make of her vote and interactions when it comes to Sloonei, Simon, MP and Blooper?

Actually wait a second

I just looked back at night vale mafia. I recommend checking out Eloh's play there.
She was scum. She wasn't anything like her play in this game. Very committal, making statements, so on. In this game she's wishy-washy and junk. Hm.
Maybe lower that percentage.

If Eloh is scum, though:
Simon prob still town.
Same for sloonei: Eloh's shying away from him looked more like escaping culpability than escaping coalignment.
MP still could be scum, might raise the chances a little on him. Basic defense there.
Eloh probably not a compatible scummate of blooper. I don't see Eloh as the type to throw that particular variety of shade.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 am @Speedchuck

What do you think of Eloh?

ISO'd her just now.

I give it 65% odds she's bad.

Dii is prob town, I think. Despite this next comment.

The push on LC to clarify why he didn't use OT green text to comment on sloonei is pretty much the silliest (to use a nice word) exchange I've ever seen. It made LC look better for no reason. I'm not going to read into the thing on LC much. LC's defense was good, but any townie or scummie can defend against a stupid argument. Hmph.

Tinfoil MP/LC scumteam, with all the buddying and false accusations between them. Just doesn't sit well with me.

My Sloonei vote was random but I'd hoped the pressure would get him to do something. It didn't.

I want some non-role-related reads from Simon.

That's pretty much all I got from reading D1: A Rambly Discourse from MP.

MovingPictures07 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:59 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:57 pm Gonna facilitate a counter wagon on LC, in case he's bad or something.

God, I am so getting lynched for my lack of involvement today. Whatever.

Is this based on anything in LC's posts, or is it essentially random? The wording has me confused.

Essentially random. I have nothing on LC or Bass. Or Sloon. I thought we had 48 hours and Sloonei is a reliable player, so I was going to see how he responded.

Brain fart on that one.

And I'm not a huge fan of the "tie meta", at least not for voter analysis. Maybe it's hypocritical since I haven't read the day, but I'm sick of tie-ing every D1 up. I will straight up change my vote to Bass if you make this a 3-way tie.

Gonna facilitate a counter wagon on LC, in case he's bad or something.

God, I am so getting lynched for my lack of involvement today. Whatever.

This is a bloody ton of posts. I forgot this was 24 hours. Glad we aren't actually lynching Sloon, I thought that was a joke. No way I'm going to catch up tonight, I have to get up before 6 tomorrow.

I'll try to do some analysis night 1.

I'm watching you Sloon. Always watching.

I'm gonna have to vote for Sloonei.

Ken is the best.