The Syndicate

Well I understood the reference.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:41 pm The literal point of a soup kill is to kill multiple players

I'd argue that the point of the soupkill is to prevent town from using roleclaiming to break the game....which I don't think it does a great job at, mechanically.

Anyhow. Thanks for the game, @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

I had fun in spite of how poorly I and my faction did.

Does remind me not to underestimate DOOM. Did not expect mafia her to hammer a fake red like 8 hours into a 48 hour day or whatever actually happened.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:22 pm This is good. Soup is supposed to be salty.

Lol this

This is not a critique of this game or me saying “mafia didn’t deserve this win” because I haven’t read the whole setup and wolves totally outplayed the town.

I’m still looking for the perfect anticlaim mechanic that isn’t just safeclaims. Mafia getting like 6 kills in one night is not ideal. In this case, it probably just sped up the route.

Maybe anticlaim murderizing townies who can’t help themselves from claiming and hinting is the correct anticlaim mechanic. Like the equivalent of a short ban or policy yeet. A slap on the wrist that reminds everyone not to do it again and that’s the best you can do (especially if you don’t want to leave out important characters or have small themes such that safeclaims aren’t ideal).

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:28 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:26 pm What’s the tldr on how the mafia figured out the ids of like 6 players?

Claims and then lucky guesses? Night actions?

Largely through claims and correct inferences from hinting i believe

I hinted like 3 characters so I was surprised to have been souped.

Granted, two of those roles were claimed later but as a wolf, if someone is quoting/hinting multiple things, I assume they’re fucking around.

I did out that I was a good guy but that shouldn’t have narrowed it down that much.

If it’s the later, that’s not how anticlaim is supposed to work. If it’s the former, loltown. Not the first time I’ve seen a town give up several yeets for not paying attention to anticlaim mechanics. Extra loltown because we had basically vanilla claims and character claims when characters weren’t alignment indicative.

What’s the tldr on how the mafia figured out the ids of like 6 players?

Claims and then lucky guesses? Night actions?

Guillotine wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:36 pm

IBA wrote: ↑Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:30 pm I'm confused by all these different abilities but how did scum kill five people in one night?

The soup kill

lolwut

Which reminds me @DaughterOfOmega have you read Hickman’s Fantastic Four? I wrote a mafia game based on it but it needed some tweeking and it was super self indulgent so I never ran it but if more people like that kinda thing, I might resurrect it from the ashes of my notes.

It’s my birthday and I won’t be so active today.

At mention me.

Why LC? Why Grogu? Other than the hammer (which I think is not scum indicative for her), why Doom?

Any Mac spew besides IBA (rip iirc) and TSP town?

Somebody wanna walk me through their progression on Martin? He seemed real town D1. Then a buncha people called him sus and then he seemed to have disappeared (or we weren’t online at the same time). Gth townlean but I wanna understand the pushes there better.

Seriously @ Jackofhearts2005 me.

Never mind on the poison. That’s valid and shitty.

But yeah faking a red on Dana in particular is a good look. It’s not like Axe hammered.


But. But. But. Knowing Dana’s role after the fact could be luck. I don’t know if it really matters. Like...you could pretty easily confirm that ability without even adding another person to the soup line. Probably a safe bet it’s a good look.

Guillotine wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:37 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:22 pm Look at Ender go.

With an OMGUS vote.

[VOTE: NotanAxeHole] aubergine

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:25 pm Luckbox/AxeHole/Maybe Falc/Maybe Jack

Good scumteam progression I like.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:28 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:20 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:19 pm

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:16 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm

sig wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:08 pm

Why can't it just be Guillotine messing around d1?

I don't see how your question-hypothesis poses a contradiction to anything I said.

@MacDougall I know you're voting luckbox, but can you play devil's advocate for a second and give me a reason why I should town read him? I feel like there are a couple of meta options, I'll let you choose your approach though.

You're asking Mac for a reason why you should town read me when he's voting me?

Very astute observation. I will not bore you with my line of thinking as you probably have already deduced that as well.

Everything you say reminds me of myself when I was a little prick who had read Beginners Psychology and wanted to sound cultured.

For all of you townies in the game, I'd like to point out that by this, he's saying that he thinks my posts are more personality driven than alignment driven. Therefore, it makes very little sense that he would be voting me over anything he's seen in the game.

But yeah, that and the early town read on Guillotine when Guillotine wasn't being towny (albeit, maybe it's not scummy, but certainly not worthy of a D1 pass - It's hardly even been funny to be honest... Maybe more clowny?)

So... Vote for this guy. Or Dana, I still think Dana is high probability wolf for the early role fishing and general mechanical posting during RVS.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:28 pm

For all of you townies in the game, I'd like to point out that by this, he's saying that he thinks my posts are more personality driven than alignment driven. Therefore, it makes very little sense that he would be voting me over anything he's seen in the game.

But yeah, that and the early town read on Guillotine when Guillotine wasn't being towny (albeit, maybe it's not scummy, but certainly not worthy of a D1 pass - It's hardly even been funny to be honest... Maybe more clowny?)

So... Vote for this guy. Or Dana, I still think Dana is high probability wolf for the early role fishing and general mechanical posting during RVS.

You posted a weaksauce reason to push on me and think it's ironclad.

Nice.

Any other response to the wagon on you with Mac involved? Please share with the class.

(Yes I think a lot of the posts are personality driven and NAI because it's early D1, but his initial Ender/Guillo push was bad.)

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:36 pm

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:30 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:28 pm

For all of you townies in the game, I'd like to point out that by this, he's saying that he thinks my posts are more personality driven than alignment driven. Therefore, it makes very little sense that he would be voting me over anything he's seen in the game.

But yeah, that and the early town read on Guillotine when Guillotine wasn't being towny (albeit, maybe it's not scummy, but certainly not worthy of a D1 pass - It's hardly even been funny to be honest... Maybe more clowny?)

So... Vote for this guy. Or Dana, I still think Dana is high probability wolf for the early role fishing and general mechanical posting during RVS.

You posted a weaksauce reason to push on me and think it's ironclad.

Nice.

Any other response to the wagon on you with Mac involved? Please share with the class.

(Yes I think a lot of the posts are personality driven and NAI because it's early D1, but his initial Ender/Guillo push was bad.)

For my townies,

I'll also highlight that he's saying he voted me due to my weak push on him initially (which sure, it wasn't super strong).. But let's look at the evidence of what he thinks is good play...

So far he's scum read luckbox for seemingly very little reason.

And he's scum read me for one post where I injected a few thoughts into the game without drawing a serious conclusion.

He's also townread guillotine for meming

and Mac for agreeing with him

Let's be clear, this is not someone who believes you need ironclad evidence to push someone on D1, therefore, his argument of why he scum reads me is in direct contradiction with his play, and you all should read that as scummy.

I found some of this convincing but haven’t read it all and I’m about to jump in the shower so saving it for later.

A mechanical thing has just come to mind. I shouldn’t have been able to be poisoned last night. Might have to reread my role and talk to Nanook.

Sorry I haven’t been around. Been cleaning and doing yard work like mad because we’re hosting family tomorrow for the first time in a year. Wife bought literally a half ton of mulch to try to make the many flower beds look more presentable. Am ded.

AMA that doesn’t require reading or that you can direct me towards specific quotes/posts.

Watch me be derp cleared and not get healed anyway.

Lol I def skipped a bunch of spoiler setup and didn’t know alignment of roles was randomized.

Naviya wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:35 am Not veto'ing Axe but if we walk blindly into another ML here then that's really bad
The 9-hour hammer yesterday in general was pretty bad

Indeed. I basically skipped yesterday because I figured there was a decent chance the red was faked and I wanted that to be claimed one way or another so we could actually play. Instead the day just ended and a townie died.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:27 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 pm Seems weird tbh

I'm a role cop. Hence why I knew no one would counterclaim. But uhm... You know what?

I don't think it's reasonable to ever believe a red check in a game where roles are handed out before alignment.

Pikablur.jpg

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:25 pm

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:09 pm I've had a beyond terrible night. Hope this does something fun

Yesterday was fun, so I don't see why today would be any different.

Lol ffs

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:32 pm Btw, assuming I survive the day, if you have a night action you think isn’t that useful, you could target me with it and it might become more useful. Js. I figure that’s not enough info to get souped.

Nanook wrote: Also in the night, @Jackofhearts2005 has been poisoned and will die at eod if not healed.

Not exactly what I meant.

@Dana

Plz halp

What if I told you just because one shot soup is weak anticlaim it’s still anticlaim and you shouldn’t just claim a big shot after the fact when under basically no pressure?

Vulgard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:12 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:54 pm I don't think any meaningful discussion can be had after a red check anyway.

Well, you shouldn't have outed it right away, then. It's possible Dana would've spewed something.

In general, I feel like you aren't playing this situation like an actual redcheck. If you're a cop, why did you play such a "loud" EoD yesterday?

Also (since today is half burned so I’m gonna go off on tangents), wolves have a one shot soupkill.

Assuming that’s the only anticlaim mechanic, it’s not really sufficient. Soup prevents a massclaim only. If say Zuko (apparent vigilante, though I guess Iroh as a one shot vig isn’t out of the question) is about to be yeeted, he could claim and as long as he’s the only claimed town role (which isn’t exactly the case atm), soup killing Zuko is basically the same as a mafia kill on Zuko except 1) it can’t be doctored and 2) it misses of the player claiming Zuko was lying.

So basically, Zuko gets a free yeet escape.

Let’s say the wolves just shoot Zuko. Then we try to yeet Aang. Aang claims and gets a free yeet escape, too. Then the wolves shoot Aang and we get a free yeet escape if we try to yeet Katara or Sokka.

And if the wolves actually use their soup? Then a massclaim becomes legal and every important character gets a get out of yeet free card. This is made stronger now that Mai has flipped town and Zuko or Iroh has burned a wolf, which points to a wolfteam of flat villains, not fire benders or team Azula.

TLDR: If wolves don’t have safeclaims, we should at least get 2 tries most days without actually misyeeting.

Creature wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:58 pm

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:05 pm well I'm preety glad we caught one wolf

was really ticked that we could've lost 5 villagers in 72 hours yesterday

Yeah we're probably still way behind

“Failure is only the opportunity to begin again.”

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:55 pm

IBA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:51 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:48 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:32 pm Also, Martin is a LOT scummier with a Mac flip, probably a good candidate for tomorrow.

Yeah also HK is giving me scum vibes. I feel strongly about murdering both of them. Not sure how many scum that leaves I can't be bothered to math.

Yeh.

But.

Do three wolves pile on TSP at EOD for very little reason when none of them were on the chopping block? Then if town yeets in the TSP voters, it’s almost always bad for town the wolves.

HK would make more sense as a wolf in a world where the Dana peek is faked (and I’m assuming it’s not).

EBWOP

IBA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:51 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:48 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:32 pm Also, Martin is a LOT scummier with a Mac flip, probably a good candidate for tomorrow.

Yeah also HK is giving me scum vibes. I feel strongly about murdering both of them. Not sure how many scum that leaves I can't be bothered to math.

Yeh.

But.

Do three wolves pile on TSP at EOD for very little reason when none of them were on the chopping block? Then if town yeets in the TSP voters, it’s almost always bad for town.

HK would make more sense as a wolf in a world where the Dana peek is faked (and I’m assuming it’s not).

Vulgard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:37 pm Oh, Dana is redchecked by NotAnAxehole? That makes a flipped wolf, a redchecked player, and a wolfy player all voting TSP during that EoD.

Unless TSP was being bussed for whatever reason (despite two villager alternatives existing), he should just be spewed V here and I shouldn't have to read any of his posts.

Agreed.

Free read on TSP is nice.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:24 pm I have a red check on Dana.

I also know who Aang is, so let me know if you want me to out that information at any point.

Dope. I’m obviously not w/w with Dana.

IBA probably just town off that Mac flip.

Good job Zuko (probably).

Btw, assuming I survive the day, if you have a night action you think isn’t that useful, you could target me with it and it might become more useful. Js. I figure that’s not enough info to get souped.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:55 pm @Jackofhearts2005
@ButterscotchSundae
@EnderWiggin
@Guillotine
@IBA

I am scrutinizing all of you if luck flips town and if you're wolf prepare to receive a formalized declaration of war

I have not heard a gosh darn good reason to flip him

I have not heard a gosh darn good reason to flip anybody but my gut says Falcon and Luck are the baddies in the room.

Naviya wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:40 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:38 pm

Naviya wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:36 pm Jackofhearts
Butterscotch

If I'm not a total clown and Luckbox flips villa then these slots are

I'm sketchy anyway.

Why is Luckbox a villa?

Good tone, reads look natural from what I saw and a lot of villagery thoughts/trains of thought?

See, I'm not feeling that.

I don't want to yeet host/dead/spec tbh

22 min to go, right?

Naviya wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:36 pm Jackofhearts
Butterscotch

If I'm not a total clown and Luckbox flips villa then these slots are

I'm sketchy anyway.

Why is Luckbox a villa?

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:28 am @Jackofhearts2005 do you have a reason for voting me?

Yeh. Think yer scum.

I see that the LB/Butters idea got a lot of talk last night after I stopped paying attention.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:25 pm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:19 pm @NotAnAxehole it would be helpful were you to confirm who you are dude

Ok, you're going to instantly townread me though and it won't be fun anymore.

Glorfindel??

ButterscotchSundae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:19 pm

Luckbox Inc wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:12 pm This is where I tell people that I've been playing ww with Butters longer than some of them have been alive (apparently) and that I read her super well.
Tone is off.

Okay, 1) caught you! and 2) are you calling me OLD?

Yeah, super rude.

If Luckbox and Butters are still both like "I am super good at reading the other one and they are a wolf" why don't we yeet them both for a 100% chance of getting scum?

Sup, Tony?

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:01 pm

ButterscotchSundae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:57 pm

ButterscotchSundae wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:55 pm I was thinking of finding my way to a Falcon vote...but I just saw that Luckbox is voting Creature. That's...concerning. To say the least.

why

Because Luckbox has played with Creature a lot. Enough to know that Creatures is a very difficult player to read AND that everyone always wants to kill him. It's a CLASSIC LHF situation. Which Dustin (Luckbox) should know.

Creature's D1 seems to be NAI slank for the most part. He did similar last game and was town.

If Luck has played with him a lot I'd maybe think my original w!luckbox was legit.

This is half a bookmark post but Creature's meta on the syndicate is kinda outta wack in that he seems to forget about or not prioritize games more often than he does on MU.

At one point, it was damn near a meme that if Creature posted less than X, he was scum and more than X, he was town but it was a way more reliable tell on MU than MTS, particularly in terms of getting false positive wolfreads from not posting enough.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:48 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:47 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:46 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:46 am I'm not used to playing with such hesitant players who give scum room to play tbh.

how is sig outed mafia exactly?

It's this tingling sensation in my anus

@Jackofhearts2005 can you add tingling anus reads to our community book of memes plz

Wolf shaped tingling anus

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:25 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:24 am

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:20 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:19 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:16 am @IBA you need to use the pole, the text vote feature laughably does nothing.

Way to ruin it.

I mean, I don't often complain about site features, but that's probably because I'm from a feature rich forum which has turned me into this entitled little prick.

Back in my day we counted votes manually and the players actively participated with vote counts. UPHILL. BOTH WAYS.

I played in a Sesame Street game and the Count was required to keep up with the vote tally and regularly post it with an ah ah ah.

Honestly, that's beautiful.

And then Big Bird decapitated a man with a stop sign.

EnderWiggin wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:20 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:19 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:16 am @IBA you need to use the pole, the text vote feature laughably does nothing.

Way to ruin it.

I mean, I don't often complain about site features, but that's probably because I'm from a feature rich forum which has turned me into this entitled little prick.

Back in my day we counted votes manually and the players actively participated with vote counts. UPHILL. BOTH WAYS.

I played in a Sesame Street game and the Count was required to keep up with the vote tally and regularly post it with an ah ah ah.

Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it’s source. True humility is the only antidote to shame.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:19 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:18 am

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:16 am @IBA you need to use the pole, the text vote feature laughably does nothing.

Way to ruin it.

I mean, I don't often complain about site features, but that's probably because I'm from a feature rich forum which has turned me into this entitled little prick.

I just meant it was funny for IBA to angrily pretend to vote.