The Syndicate

tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2023 1:17 am And sorry if i dissed anyone too much i hope i didnt

Trolling spf was fun we were enemies so its fair game

I dont think ive laughed so much in a mafia game, feels awkward to say it considering the mood but to me this game was an absolute blast and i loved everything

<3

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:47 pm This should be considered a mafia shutout tbh.

Agreed.

Gg, wolves. Thanks for trying, fellow townies.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:21 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:20 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:18 pm The Judgement card is day playable

you don't think i know?

why do you insist i'm FPSing?

Because I am town. Holy shit how hard is it.

You are saying I am mech scum. I am literally town Ergo I know you are full of shit.

Literally Higgs Boson level equation needed here.

If you were town, you would take a red peek in Seanzie/Mac/SPF as a red peek on SPF and vote there. Ya outted.

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:20 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:18 pm The Judgement card is day playable

you don't think i know?

why do you insist i'm FPSing?

Because he's wolves with SPF and the only way a red peek in Mac and SPF doesn't result in a wolf yeet is if you just pretend the peek doesn't exist.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:25 am OH I FINALLY GOT WHY WOLVES THIUGHT THEY WIN

They pile up on town creature. Play the stop chop card

Frame creature to be zealot. Chop him.

Would be 6v5. Then they just blitz, they have a zealot, they have mac and spf daytalk, they got everything

Was that it? Lmao

This idea had come to mind and I was debating whether or not to bring it up.

Things to consider

1) What were SPF, Mac and Sabi during yesterday? What was their goal?

2) They didn't have to choose Creature. They could have used the judgement card at EOD no matter who was a wolf. They could frame any townie as the zealot, making that townie super ineffective and on the off chance four wolves got yeeted, we'd likely yeet that townie ftl. Or they could "frame" any wolf as the zealot, making us yeet out of order and guaranteeing another no yeet day. The only player who this wouldn't work with was the actual zealot. We'd still waste a day phase but we wouldn't be fooled and the judgement card would essentially get burned.

Getting that big pile on Creature seemed difficult to me. In hindsight, it was because I was arguing likely incorrect reads (Tutuu wolf) and because I was fighting against townies like Falcon and Seanzie who wanted to yeet a wolf (SPF).

But what was the wolfteam doing? Were they trying to yeet Sig? Not yeet Sig? Distance? Distract? What tf was going on with them yesterday within the framework of many of my reads flipping? I think that's important....and I'm totally not gonna look into it yet.

Gth, I'm not sold on Creature being town but yeah, there is this outside possibility that he is. I think he's been outside his town meta but otoh, SPF pushed there pretty consistently.

Like...it doesn't make sense to say "we should yeet Creature because he's not the Zealot, which means he was saved by the judgement card, which means SPF and Mac are wolves.....but I refuse to vote for SPF or Mac."

That's wolf nonsense.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:28 pm Anyway last post of dayphase. I said what I had to say. I'm voting for the outted wolf while yall chase your pride reads.

Ignoring that you can't be off wagon at lylo and still win as town...

Creature survived for one of two reasons.

1) Creature is the zealot -> yeeting him again loses the game for the town -> you shouldn't want to yeet Creature again

2) Creature isn't the zealot and he was protected by the judgement card yesterday -> Mac or SPF is confirmed wolf -> Mac and SPF are not thunderdoming and are holding onto mutual townreads in spite of each having the equivalent of a red check on each other -> both are wolves -> you shouldn't have a strong desire to yeet Creature over SPF/Mac

There's no logical reason for town Sabi to do this. Sabi is flat outted. Sabi has done things like this a lot this game, where she has a strong opinion about where she should vote based on reasoning that doesn't make sense. She has also spent a lot of time "sheeping" Mac, who is confirmed wolf.

@Dennis @sig @Porscha @DrWilgy

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:16 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:07 pm To summarize.

The No Hang means someone played the Judgement card that they received the night before the hang.

The person who received the Judgement card is within Mac/SPF/ ????

And ??? Better be Seanzie or smth otherwise I will flip out.

So since a Judgement card was used, one of Mac/SPF/??? played it.

the part that outs spf and sabi in particular is the interference that i believe occurred, they were very quick to call it me getting roleblocked (too quickly) and mac/spf/sabi used the particular arguments that suggest tmi that i was not telling the truth

1) argument being "lying and FPSing"
2) hail marry by me on personal reads
3) egotistical play

now the problem here is that all of these arguments were presuming the axiom that i was not telling the truth, something too quickly assumed and not actually established. these arguments are all ones that directly cater to what mafia believe happened because they believed i was successfully interfered with mechanically

they believed i was fps'ing so the arguments would work, the arguments were off in that they assumed too much and tried gaslighting me too hard in the face of actual mech

because there is one in mac/spf that clearly implies the other due to threadstate, NK's and everything that has gone on along with my personal reads

100%

With the caviet that I often turn out to be wrong on 100% reads (including Alison in this game), I am currently 100% sure that Mac, SPF and Sabi are all wolves off this exact reasoning.

@sig

Mechanically, there’s always one wolf in you and Portia. You’re voting with Porscha at lylo.

Mechanically, there’s always at least one wolf in SPF and Mac. A townie in that pair should want to thunderdome the other because it’s a flat red peek. Instead, they’re both doubling down on their mutual townreads and trying to whip up votes. The logical conclusion is they’re both wolves and want to just win today. An alternative but far less likely conclusion is that one is pocketed badly and doesn’t understand the mechanical red and the other is a wolf.

Best case scenario, you are choosing to vote with two wolves at lylo. More likely, you’re choosing to vote with three. If you’re town, you need to vote with the Lucy gang.

And if you wanna be stupid and ignore game mech, consider that wolves have consistently shot outside the towncore. It makes little sense on its face to shoot Robdo and Seanzie (no offense ya’ll) over Mac, SPF, Bereft, Tutuu, Jack. But if SPF and Mac are both wolves, then you never shoot them and you never shoot Bereft who (if town) is hard pocketed by both and you don’t shoot Jack who is hard pocketed by SPF and is (probably) pushing incorrect scum in Tutuu/Wilgy. And you don’t shoot Tutuu over Rondo when she’s in a similar incorrect state and then you don’t kill her over Seanzie, hoping Tutuu and Jack eat each other alive and hand you the win.

Everything in this game clicks into place when SPF and Mac are wolves and nothing makes sense at all if they’re both town. And that’s if you ignore mech and basic ass game theory that says they’re both just wolves anyway.

Townies in

@Bereft @Porscha @DrWilgy @Dennis need to hear this, too. Wilgy and Dennis are probably on board but whatever. Like I said earlier, not only does town need to vote correctly, we need to not give the wolves a place to hide with incorrect townies. All townies follow Lucy and the last wolf is forced to follow us and we yeet correctly yay or out to continue pushing for a misyeet (and then we yeet correctly anyway yay).

Internal analysis says there’s exactly 1 wolf in: Tutuu, Wilgy, Bereft, Dennis, Sig/Porscha (whoever isn’t the zealot)

I’m unsurprised to see Dennis switch back to the light. He’s my gth strongest townread in there. My heart tells me Tutuu and Wilgy are town but I haven’t done my due diligence there and likely won’t this calendar day.

Gut says the last wolf is Bereft. He’s gonna hate this post soooo much.

There being at least one wolf mechanically confirmed in SPF and Mac and at least one in Sig and Porscha and all four are voting together at lylo is fucking wild.

Actually footage of this game.

And ofc I like you a lot, Tutuu.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:00 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:46 am I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Fair. Also I apologize for yesterday. Well at EoD I said ratchety stuff just for the laughs, we talked about how I didn't mean them.

But I think I still went too hard on you. Sorry.

Earlier I managed to find you as town, just like Creature. It was a "Hero town read". I called you lock town. It was a hero townread because you were in the PoE and a lot of people wanted you dead. So I was proud of myself for the bravery of the read, and then seeing you scumread me a few posts after that and go ham on me was a hit to my morale. Not that you should feel bad about it obviously, Mafia is Mafia, we all trynna play the game, I'm just explaining where I'm coming from. You know I respect you right? :P
I regret calling you a shitter and stuff like that even if I was mostly trying to be funny. I should have reigned it in a bit.

Hug. Sorry.

Also, do you remember how Mac started calling you lock town the moment you:

1) started pushing me and creature
2) defended spf, dennis and co.

Now why would he do that? :P

That’s not a bad point.

Ugh I don’t want to reevaluate Creature too.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 11:46 am I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Which at the time was me and Sig…..but probably SPF so I need to reevaluate that.

I’m just tired. I have to work today and deal with my son bringing home live so there’s a lot of “I need to look at X” thoughts and not a lot of motivation to actually do that this morning.

For the record, I’m just gonna follow Lucy’s vote all day and not call votes for Max and SPF because it’s way more important to vote together on the wolf pair than to vote a specific one. Idk why we specifically shifted to w!SPF from w!Mac but it doesn’t really matter.

I’m more just trying to psych myself up to not be like “Tutuu is still a wolf because I was sooooo sure yesterday” and also not go “Tutuu is town cause she’s gonna vote with me and Lucy” and actually like take the time to look at your slot again with fresh eyes.

I get what you’re saying with the trolling cause….that’s almost exactly the reason I began strongly scumreading you, thinking you were trolling townies.

Like it’s the easiest thing in the world for a wolf to put on a smile and go along with a red peek. There’s a wolf tendency to “disagree” with obviously true things that would cause them to lose or delay a win (SPF, Sabi). But it’s totally possible for Tutuu to just be a wolf building the easiest credit in the world.

BUT

Since I’m in Mac and SPF are wolves and Sig is town worlds, I need to reevaluate Tutuu from her prior “lock wolf” position. Luckily, we have prescribed yeets so I have plenty of time to do this. This is fine. This is good. Embrace the fun of being fooled one way or the other and keep solving.

I hate how I’m being forced to consider worlds where Tutuu is town but I kinda think in a world where Mac is a wolf and SPF is town and SPF is like “I trust Mac so much that I’m going to ignore a claimed red peek on him and say that Lucy just doesn’t understand mech” then it’s not really my fault if we misyeet SPF or if we misyeet today because SPF won’t vote with the rest of the town.

That is, I can assume SPF wolf because if SPF is town, nothing I do matters and the loss isn’t my fault.

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:41 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:55 pm Mac, I know you’re excited to get to the “guess the zealot” portion of the game but come on.

@lucy if mac is the zealot i just think u should consider jack mafia

Otherwise i fully trust ur judgement Queen

Thanks for saving the game <3

Anyone whos trynna bully lucy - u answer to me first.

Mac can’t be the zealot because he drew the judgement card or a different card. Lucy wouldn’t direct us there if he could be the zealot.

And since you’re the second person to misunderstand the joke…

“Guess the zealot” in my head is when town can win but must guess the zealot correctly and get them last, a rough lylo where we can vote out a wolf and still lose. So I wasn’t saying anything about any specific player being a zealot. I was insinuating Mac was trying to misyeet, bringing us to the portion of the game where town not only has to yeet wolves but correctly guess the zealot.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:53 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:48 pm Tienies who refuse to follow a setup confirmed player with a red prek deserve to lose and I feel like I’m taking crazy pills watching SPF, Sabi and Bereft twist themselves into knots to say a red peek isn’t a red peek.

Weren't you upset with me too? I don't mean to be annoying, genuinely, I just wanna know why you said I was acting wolfy and then yelled at everyone but me?

Because your question was the most believably actually a question. I still want you to just understand and trust the mechanics but you don’t look like a wolf flat refusing to see a red peek.

This game is super unbalanced with 8 wolves.

Congratulations, Wilgy. You’ve been reverse poed back into the town.

Tienies who refuse to follow a setup confirmed player with a red prek deserve to lose and I feel like I’m taking crazy pills watching SPF, Sabi and Bereft twist themselves into knots to say a red peek isn’t a red peek.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:42 pm jack, i have read the setup. my (VERY STRONG GUESS) is that lucy is either incorrect or lying about the information she is saying today. i HAVE thought about it. i HAVE read the setup. i do not think she is telling the truth. i have posted why

im not going to waste another post talking about this

You understand that from my pov, there MUST be at least one wolf in you and Mac and you refusing to scumread Mac because “trust me bro” is really really bad, right?

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:39 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:36 pm If townies could stop throwing fits about how the oracle is making shit up, that would be great. Because there are more than 5 players being insanely wolfy right now.

??? Is this not something to at least talk about? Especially you saying yourself the oracle "made shit up"??

But I've just about exhausted my thoughts on it anyways so I will concede

It’s something we need to talk about but when a confirmed townie comes in with a red and there are 3 wolves and 3 players come in and can’t seem to understand how red peeks work, where there’s your mafia.

And when you’re looking 2 wolves (cause Creature, Tutuu and one in Sig and Porscha are outted) and 4 players come in and can’t understand how red peeks work, they can’t all be mafia now can they? Hence my frustration.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:34 pm Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:38 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:36 pm If townies could stop throwing fits about how the oracle is making shit up, that would be great. Because there are more than 5 players being insanely wolfy right now.

How about you read the setup.

How bout you read the setup?

Same for @Sabiplz @Dennis @staypositivefriend

If townies could stop throwing fits about how the oracle is making shit up, that would be great. Because there are more than 5 players being insanely wolfy right now.

And honestly, SPF having difficulty scumreading Mac atp is ???

Lucy’s third target was Seanzie. Seanzie died and flipped vanilla town.

Judgement played by Seanzie/SPF/Mac. Ergo, at least one wolf in SPF/Mac.

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:16 pm "No info-dumping regarding what card you drew and how you used it"

This technically doesn't apply to Oracle since Oracles don't draw cards. However this might not have been the intended spirit.

Lol about time we got a lucky bounce.

Dennis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:12 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:01 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:59 pm JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

Are you town leader? I didn't think you had all that much thread influence to be quite honest

I’m the protagonist of all games. That’s why I’m never yeeted or nightkilled and I got my own discord channel.

It would be kinda appropriate for Daisy to put us out of our misery for infodumping.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:05 pm Can we please just vote jack

Claiming wolf is not considered info dumping, fyi. You don’t have to like hint.

I want to believe SPF is still town because my heart says so but I’m already deeply uncomfortable with how close we are to infodumping (possibly already over the line) so I can’t really ask Lucy to clarify.

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:59 pm JAck why are your posts always so off

What are you talking about? I’m town leader and lead the first wolf yeet yesterday.

Lucy is basically claiming red peeks on Mac AND SPF and Tuutu’s play yesterday was wolfy af.

I’m not pulling this stuff out of my butt.

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:54 pm

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:50 pm I don't understand how you can't explain hypothetically why we have to hang in exactly that order.
I finally went and looked back at what exactly Oracle does, and I don't get it.

i know who pulled cards such as judgement and death and who is and who isn't zealot

there's a card called justice which when pulled is another mafia kill, if mafia pulls that then that's quite literally 2 town for 1 mafia which is very bad news, lynching zealot after means another town, dangerously close to parity

anyways spf/mac are both outed fmpov

The entire towncore being mafia is…a situation.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:52 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:50 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:16 pm creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

okay

i believe that seanzie outright mechanically hard claimed that he had information to suggest that creature was not the zealot. i don't see any other way to interpret the posts that he made about creature

Pretend I’m on mobile and I want you to tell me specifically what card would tell him that.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:23 pm The people that look bad after creature non flip:

Tutuu

Jack

Jack honestly looks worse because he tried to. Kill every sig wagon and was pushing creature so hard to wagon creature that it wasn't even misguided town.

Tutuu defense of creature seems kinda twtbaw. It's too blatant idk.

Judgement slink doesn’t care if wolf A gets yeeted or of wolf B gets yeeted. The holder can grant mercy to everyone. This is only a valid thought if Creature is the zealot, which we have mechanical and logical reason to think he’s not.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:16 pm creature being zealot does not make sense in light of seanzie's posts at the end of the day yesterday unless seanzie was going out of his way to troll, which i don't think he would do

It isn’t infodumping if you’re guessing. Spell it out.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:44 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:34 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:30 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:24 pm the oracle is both confirmed town and has mechanical info that the rest of the lobby does not that

we have to follow my order of operations, or we lose, there are mechanics in play which make it so

i can pretty much chain 3 mafia

Sure thing then.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

Is there a possible sequence order you can provide? Or does the if/then/else of that require us to just survive lylo?

mac->spf->creature->one in porscha/sig->x

well thanks for giving me a reason to ignore everything you say today

i dont care that youre town, youre playing badly if you are letting mechanics get in the way of basic scumhunting. you should know that i'm not mafia and i doubt that mac is mafia either

Mac was pretty damn wolfy yesterday tbh

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:12 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:11 pm Was there mechanically a way fro creature not to be yeeted and not being the Zealot?

yes, there's this card called judgement

Oh yeah probably this.

Kinda want to yeet creature again lol

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:11 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:10 pm [VOTE: tutuu] aubergine

intent to thunderdome today

Yeah, Wilgy is basically always a wolf. K.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:08 pm We continue on Sig.

Wolves went out of their way to push us off their teammate and into the Zealot.

Also SPF will also do. Creature being their prime suspect since d1 argument feels kinda moot.

Feels like a wolf play.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:09 pm i don't think creature was the zealot, but i do think he is mafia

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:09 pm no, i don't believe creature was zealot

I want to believe this because it would make me feel less stupid so….explain plz.

I’m actually oracle lol

Bereft wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:56 pm Jack why is everything you say out of touch.

Probably because I’m trying to make dinner

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:55 pm we should sleep we need more information

This is the way. Let’s all go to sleep and leave the votes as is

Mac, I know you’re excited to get to the “guess the zealot” portion of the game but come on.