The Syndicate

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:42 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:41 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:40 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:39 pm @Porscha @Dennis @Creature onto roxy thanks

Why? I thought you preferred fingersplints

in an ideal world, where finger could possibly be unlynchable, i am trying to get a second wagon that isn't alison

Oh right that's a thing

[VOTE: Roxy] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:14 pm Legacy

Upper POE -

Rondo/Lucy (I really don't get how the non Oracle between them makes sense as town)
Jack/Baudib1 (different)

Lower POE -

Sig
Creature
Fingersplints

If Alison survives today and a town elimination occurs add Alison to my upper POE.

Bereft wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 8:06 pm Jack and Creature are 2 slots that occupy sorta the same niche player archetype wise and threadwise.

With limited experience with either I'd vote Jack over Creature always. In particular I think SPF's meta concerns are too "narrow".

Aight my time is up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:56 pm The thing giving me pause about my gamestate, and humouring flipping my evaluation upside down, is Alison and Baudib shielding Creature in case that wasn't obvious.

Firstly, I still think SPF's case on Creature has been the most thorough and well reasoned argument anyone has made the entire phase. On top of that SPF has been possibly the towniest person in the game. In spite of that, she's been largely ignored in favour of this repetitive argument that's like the universe vs. Alison. I also just don't think Creature has been towny.

Is there a world in which Alison, Baudib, SPF and Creature are all town.

SPF and Mac would need to be wrong about Creature. Corrected by two players who are largely suspected by a huge swathe of players. I guess it's plausible in that way.

The question one moustache is ... is Creature really towny enough for Alison and Baudib to be this defensive of him? Or is their defense shielding a partner? Or is it TMI?

@Jackofhearts2005 @DrWilgy @falcon45ca What do you three think of Creature?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:16 am Do I have to get naked for you people to remember my name?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:12 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:09 am Eeeeh for certain values of date night. No shade at the wifey and we’ve had all day together and she wants to play pokemon so I guess I’ll stick around and be game useful

What's your take on Alison's wagon? Give us some thoughts on Roxy, sig and myself plz

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:36 pm This game has all the traits of tvt violence and in a way that would be quite difficult for the mafia to justify getting involved in. Players like Wilgy, Roxy and Falcon are coming across like they have an obscene amount of town self entitlement even if I disagree with them (and was scumreading them), and on the flipside so does Baudib, Lucy etc.

What is the major hypotheses being debated?

Alison is mafia
Lucy should be trusted/listened to
A giant group of players who are opposite aligned to Alison are all scummy/bad/wrong/annoying

What is not being discussed?

Fingersplints is scummy as hell
Kate didn't get any townier at all
SPF's casing of Creature is being largely ignored and if he was town, I'd expect the mafia to be shining a lot on it
Tutuu/Neon capping early
Rondo's weird as hell holding of the Oracle claim

I am very tempted to townread and largely ignore everyone who is giving heaps of fucks about the former set of theorum and want to cast my glare at the people who are more passive at the moment, particularly those whose names are in the above.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:07 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

This is a bit reactionary, but I don’t like Lucy’s insistence here it’s game over or “throwing” if Alison is voted. No one person is game ending.

fingersplints wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:14 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 7:10 pm fingersplints didnt you just tell me like 24 hours ago that you thought alison and baub were town vs town.....? so do u believe this and ur voting alison for the sake of proving a point to lucy? or do u actually sr alison now?

I did not plan on voting her at the time. I said I thought it was a playstyle clash. But I also think now one of those need to resolved or else it will plague us the entire game. And I like the posts of the other players with votes more than her.
And also yes, I disagree with Lucy’s posts

How can anyone read this justification and think that is legit?

Neon wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:54 pm Alison is doing a play by play exact replica of King of the Hill. I can't get over that lol its exactly the same.

Like

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&t=24 ... &start=250

Exactly the same. Every single aspect of it.

I kinda town read the switch off on Kate but than I remembered that a very similar thing happened to the wolf team when I subbed out in KotH mafia for mental health reasons and they abandoned the Neon push because they thought my subbing out was town indicative because of the way it was done.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:53 pm

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm If alison is mafia i feel like 2 or maybe 3 of the people vehemently pushing her are also mafia

Looking at jack and sig

A possible explanation for the behavior "alison maf, i aint moving, nu-uh, nothing else exists i put my hands on my ears lalalalala" is an orchestrated bus, maybe alison has exams or something she always has exams :P

(I still have an unconfident townread on her, just exploring an option)

I'm on winter break. Semester doesn't start until the 18th.

tutuu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:52 pm If alison is mafia i feel like 2 or maybe 3 of the people vehemently pushing her are also mafia

Looking at jack and sig

A possible explanation for the behavior "alison maf, i aint moving, nu-uh, nothing else exists i put my hands on my ears lalalalala" is an orchestrated bus, maybe alison has exams or something she always has exams :P

(I still have an unconfident townread on her, just exploring an option)

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 9:04 pm End of Day 1 - Now Who's Flailing?

"Three balls for $1! Put a friend in the seat and try to dunk them," a carnie calls out, juggling the balls as he tempts people to come and give the dunk tank a whirl. The line here is longer than most of the other games. It's comprised mostly of teenage boys eager to show up their buddies. You stand in line to purchase an elephant ear and as you wait for your delicious deep fried pastry to be done, you idly watch one after another miss the bullseye target. Then suddenly there is a loud DING! The small plank drops, dumping fingersplints into the large vat of very cold water. The group of friends gathered around to cheer and jeer at the unfortunate soul who now flailed, trying to fight their way back up to the top. Aren't those things supposed to be more shallow than that? The laughter subsides as the realization dawns on all the observers that fingersplints was in real trouble. By the time they fish her from the water, they are limp and lifeless. So much for their fun day at the fair.

fingersplints has been chopped. She was Vanilla Town. It is now Night 1, card draws will be going out momentarily and you will have until 7:00 PM EST January 7 (tomorrow) to turn in your night actions in your private channel.

The thread is now locked for the night.

Please vote in the poll to tell me if you would rather I lift the post cap one hour before the End of Day or leave it as is.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:15 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Your push on me is so ill advised that you've become a bigger wagon than me even without me pushing you at all.

Everything you're complaining about me doing, you're doing. I'm not doing enough by just pushing Alison? You're not doing enough by just pushing me.

Only I'm pushing a wolf and you're pushing a townie. If you really are town and you really can't get over this, at least do something else useful so people stop thinking you're a wolf.

Bub you can’t even make a half-convincing case that you’re unaware of my alignment. I’m not the one trolling the thread with useless nonsense. I have plenty of other thoughts on other people in the game, and you don’t.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:13 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:11 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

I'm literally leading a yeet on a wolf right now. How much more useful do you expect me to be?

Jack: you and I both know, so just remember when we play another game for higher stakes, bub.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:52 pm Jack = W is probably the strongest D1 wolf I’ve had in over 100 games. T!Jack will generally find a way to make himself useful very early and be obvtown.

After that I am less sure, I’d suspect 2.5 in this group that is blatantly wolfsiding:
Wilgy
Neon (incorporating MacDougall read here)
Falcon
Seanzie
Porscha (incorporating tutuu read)

Occasionally 1 in Creature/Rondo/Alison/SPF/Bereft and even lower frequency in Mac/tutuuu (but something like 1 in 300)

lucy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:57 pm Alison should never die d1, baudib is towny and he's playing towny, those wagons suck

jack
porscha
Roxy
neon

@MacDougall @Alison @staypositivefriend try to pick a name here and drop a small case on them and include your confidence, i'll read their iso's among other things

and today i want to choose the lynch because of how horrible the wagons are now, and because of the 5 mafia that exist

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:39 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:15 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:44 am Kate townslipped. She's been using the green text all game to represent stuff that's from an out-of-game perspective and that she wants to make sure people know is genuine and not speaking from her role PM. She included "it would be a bad move for town to vote me out" in green text because she was telling the truth about requesting a sub out and accidentally said too much in her "trust tell" font.

Roxy hasn't returned and is either totally checked out of the game or totally frozen mafia. We should get rid of her because we can't leave her around generating question marks forever.

Lynching slankers D1 is always suboptimal.


If only there was a recent game where Maf absolutely trounced Town cuz' of this very thing...@DrWilgy , remember?

Not for wolves. Wolf Alison loves to yeet town slankers like "We can't leave this slot around forever."

Well, ya I mean for Town. 'Natch it's a wolf strat

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:15 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:44 am Kate townslipped. She's been using the green text all game to represent stuff that's from an out-of-game perspective and that she wants to make sure people know is genuine and not speaking from her role PM. She included "it would be a bad move for town to vote me out" in green text because she was telling the truth about requesting a sub out and accidentally said too much in her "trust tell" font.

Roxy hasn't returned and is either totally checked out of the game or totally frozen mafia. We should get rid of her because we can't leave her around generating question marks forever.

Lynching slankers D1 is always suboptimal.


If only there was a recent game where Maf absolutely trounced Town cuz' of this very thing...@DrWilgy , remember?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 12:25 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:54 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:34 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:53 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:50 pm I don’t have any opinions on anyone’s reads lists.

That's concerning to the point of me doubting it's truth.

@Creature, we just going to ignore my reasons for my wr list that I posted earlier?

I think I don't know creatures wolf range well enough, I can postulate both "maybe I'm in argument with a town that communicates differently from my expectations" and "damn, creature is putting down some scummy posts."

The things you are choosing to focus on and talk about and place importance on just don't feel like relevant and town mindset things to me.

I kinda believe this. I a lot want to believe it because it would be funny if Wilgy was a wolf again.

You've been accused of trolling this game. Do you feel that's at all accurate? Do you think you've been solving?



Got 3 Town & 3 Scum and a few blurbs as to why?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:38 pm

fingersplints wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:17 pm It’s late and I got tired of reading the thread as a whole, so decided to focus on specific players instead. Started with Alison and Roxy. I think Alison comes off worse in the exchange.

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:36 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:35 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:24 pm

Roxy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:21 pm Oh honey. that was not guns blazing, you have never played with me but you act like I have tells. If you want a tell look at Felt Mafia 2. I was bad with Kate, SVS and Epi. We never suspected each other let alone voted for each other. I protect my teammates. I do not bus. Which is why we won that game with all four of us still alive. The new players such as yourself do not play this way. (see my baddie game w/lucy LGM) New players mostly all want passes to D 4 so they have info to go off of. OG players like myself find our actual suspicions in the thread. We do not vote without reasons or otherwise we would be the next elim.

1) This is going to be a copypasta after this game is over
2) This is an incorrect characterization of "new players"

do not know what copypasta is but it sounds horrible so no thank you?
I think it is pretty accurate tbh

You don't really get to choose whether or not it's a copypasta, also you are extremely inaccurate and I know much better than you on this topic.

I can see why Rox is annoyed with comments like this. I think posts would go down better if explained why you think it’s inaccurate rather than just saying “well I know better.”

i dont particularly like this post because it doesnt really seem like youre trying to evaluate alison or roxy's alignment here, but you still say that alison looks worse from it

you can say that alison looks worse in the sense that she was rude to roxy, but do you think that alison looks wolfy for being rude to roxy? feels like the two are being conflated as though they're the same thing

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:35 pm i don't claim to have any level of confidence in reading alison correctly but i do honestly feel like the main reasons ive seen to justify voting her have been more related to her playstyle than her alignment

feels kind of icky

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:34 pm Off topic first-world problems rant with a happy ending

Spoiler: show

So I am trying to buy a house, and today I found out that the mortgage I was expecting to get no longer existed because of some stupid issue with terms changing in 2023 that my mortgage broker didn't realize until just now. I could still get a mortgage, but the terms were significantly worse, and I was bummed out all day and have been calling around to try to find something closer to the terms that I was going to get before because the difference was like $35k over 10 years, which is kinda significant to me. Anyways, after calling around and mostly getting terms that were slightly better than my original lender could do, but still way worse than what I've been budgeting for and planning on up until this morning, I eventually got terms that are actually quite a bit better than my original terms, and should help me build an extra $10k in equity over 10 years, which is pretty cool. If I wouldn't have spent so much time today figuring this out though, I wouldn't have gotten this, so in a way, I kinda made an extra $45k today. Was super stressful today.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:34 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:53 pm

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:50 pm I don’t have any opinions on anyone’s reads lists.

That's concerning to the point of me doubting it's truth.

@Creature, we just going to ignore my reasons for my wr list that I posted earlier?

I think I don't know creatures wolf range well enough, I can postulate both "maybe I'm in argument with a town that communicates differently from my expectations" and "damn, creature is putting down some scummy posts."

The things you are choosing to focus on and talk about and place importance on just don't feel like relevant and town mindset things to me.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:03 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:49 pm

I did. I read his ISO carefully.

I'll ask again. Where is this happening? Please point out specific instances.

This is not a serious post. Do you believe that Jack believes we should yeet him D1 every game in order to determine his alignment? Do you believe that he really thinks he should be considered obvtown?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm
I mean, in theory, you should try to yeet me every D1 to immediately determine my alignment.

In practice, I'm obviously town so what are you doing?

This is a nonsensical post with no reasoning or previous post supporting any of these conclusions.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:07 pm Also, just assume that everything happens for a reason, including rands.

Ergo, you can townread Seanzie, me, Creature, Falcon, Porscha and you can scumread Alison, Wilgy.

This is another useless post that says nothing. Yes, we can conclude that Roxy-Alison is one of three possible groupings. This is lolcatting,

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:06 pm well, since we can all agree that Alison and Roxy are either w/w, v/w or v/v, we should infoyeet Alison.

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:12 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm Alison/Baudib at least not w/w, which is neat.

Wrong we are obv w/w

Baudib1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:09 pm Some people are born great
Others have greatness thrust upon them
Sometimes you should just yeet Jack

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:43 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:36 pm Yeah, that just kinda feels like a bunch of nitpicking. Calling promises of future content wolfy is like....you wait for the content to come or not come. And agreeing with meta and undermining yourself aren't scum indicative in the first place. Does feel bad faith.

okay. i dont find promises of future content either, but i do think that specifically saying: "i will need to read this part of the game again' on page 2 of the RVS phase can be indicative of a wolf who feels insecure about not being towny ~enough~ and is trying to cover for it by acting like they're going to post more content later. i noticed myself doing similar stuff when i was wolfing in hydra game 4 so i think it can be a legitimate wolftell with the right context

i think i somewhat agree with you that some of alison's reasons for pushing on ppl are flimsy/could be perceived as bad faith but i also dont particularly think this is alignment indicative for alison

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:10 pm I am back. I see Porscha and Jack have outed even further.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:20 pm why do u think that alison's reads are wolf-indicative? i thought that the original post she pointed out from kate was legitimately wolfy, or i could at least understand why someone would take issue with it. do u think the ppl she's pushing (kate/roxy) are town?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:20 pm Only > rand, not even >> rand. smh

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:18 pm Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

okay

so then what do you think about alison's original reason for pushing on kate? do you think it looks like alison is talking about kate in a bad faith way?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:08 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:39 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:05 am I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:58 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:46 pm Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

because i can understand why the thought of: "this player isn't doing enough" could be wolfy to say about someone this early into the game, but i also feel like you're singling out that specific post from alison without seeming to factor her original reason for pushing kate in the first place into your analysis. it feels like incomplete analysis

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:21 pm

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:18 pm Kate still has not done anything after coming back to the game by the way.

This feels gross.

Most of Alison's posts feel gross.

what feels gross about it?

It doesn't feel like hunting. It feels like trying to make a player look bad to other players.

Town do try to make players look bad to other players but it's when they are convinced that player is scum. Like, there have been a lot of times that (regardless of if I'm correct or not) I've felt like I've had a wolf and people won't follow my vote and I'm just screaming into the void. That's a thing townies do.

But just shade on a player like that D1 for not doing enough? Feels like a thing wolves do.

okay

so then what do you think about alison's original reason for pushing on kate? do you think it looks like alison is talking about kate in a bad faith way?

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:08 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:39 am

Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 05, 2023 1:05 am I agree with SPF that this is a super unexciting game so far. I am just gonna vote the easiest wolf to catch and try to break the game open with associatives.

[VOTE: Kate] aubergine

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:58 pm

sig wrote: ↑Wed Jan 04, 2023 11:46 pm Also from my limited games with rondo he seems to be playing within his civ meta right now so probably wouldn’t want to vote their today

Just read through once and I for now agree on this. This is almost identical to the way he opened the last game and he was civ. Unless of course, he's doing that to make us think that... anyway nothing about his gameplay pings me thus far.

Lots of pings in this thread for a cold day 1 from many people. I'll have to reread tomorrow for any deeper thoughts.

Explain to me what's obvscum about this post

She agrees with Rondo meta, immediately undermines her own view, then promises a future reread (a reread? Thread was literally 2 pages) that has to happen before she gives any deeper thoughts. It's a waffly nothingburger of a post.

because i can understand why the thought of: "this player isn't doing enough" could be wolfy to say about someone this early into the game, but i also feel like you're singling out that specific post from alison without seeming to factor her original reason for pushing kate in the first place into your analysis. it feels like incomplete analysis