The Syndicate

So you think lynching someone who you don;t need dead to win is cool? Host verified?

My entire concept of you has changed, tbh.

Those of you that have item lists; have you heard of "warping potion"?

What he claimed was complex and involved taking votes intentionally. He proposed a plan that was wildly inappropriate as well involving getting"cred" with baddies. And I think saying anymore would be toeing the line,a line I don't want to toe with LC. Mac is dead now, but noone else that was there is.

I thought he was incredibly dangerous & full of shit even before I saw that picture. I think if he was a secret role, it was that role ^^

Linki, I missed that. But the whole "secret role " angle made that seem plausible to me, and it still does. Maybe he removed it,or maybe he "removed it". The guy still claimed to be a secret role

EBWOP, I think Golden went along with it since he trusted Sorsha. She had been making feints at Bass for several days.

I have also been leery of her since the day G9 blew up.

Since Mac is dead, I told LC I wanted to do this, and he did not tell me no, so..

Mac claimed to be a secret role. He explained how a hidden role worked, which involves another player, and is not important or anything I think LC would be OK with me discussing, but it was plausible, and I was not the only one to be told this. After G9 blew up, I checked the map, and hit the magnifying glass, and it took me to the hosts photobucket for Mafia. I got nosy, and in the middle of the role pictures for the game was this:

Amnesiac Psychopath. This is NOT the role he claimed to be.

NOT a friendly looking guy, and not in the role list. And I got the impression Sorsha trusted him, and she got pretty upset when he died. So there was that too.

But mainly it was the Bass lynch. She threw Bass to the wind in order to get to me, that is the short and the long of it imo.

Linki, I think Golden is a civvie.

I thought he might have been recruited

His buddy Luke was on the team, and I thought his activity level changed. Also, if they flipped Floyd bad, why not use a baddier sounding role name? That was another reason I thought he might have been recruited.

I think my thoughts on Sorsha changed when she led the lynch on Bass, a civ. I thought she was an info role, and she was single minded on Bass, and I thought she had info. But he wasn't, I think she really thinks I am bad, and she believes she needs me dead to win, and lynching Bass, who many thought to be the last Cabal, was the best way to do that.

Not an immensely civvie move in my eyes. Neither is going after MM, who is not bad, JUST to get to me. That was when I changed my mind, when she lynched Bass, Yeah.

And I disagree;I think the Master Thief sounds worse than both Skippleskritz & The Splinter role.

Turnip Head wrote:
Matt wrote:Turnip - What do you make of Dr Dre being on the bad guy team? You were insistent earlier that he was a civ in the first World game, as if by bringing that up, maybe people would leave you alone about it. I appreciate you voting Bass but I think seeing Dre with the baddies is kind of interesting.
I was not "insistent" about anything, you are rewriting history. Here is the post I made on the subject, you'll see it was made in direct response to Golden asking me what alignment I thought the doctor could be. You're acting like I was waving my arms around insisting he's a civvie role; I only brought it up because Golden questioned me, and I made no conclusion one way or the other.

But allow me to be more insistent now. Here are 8 roles I think are more likely to be bad than Dr. Von Drezenstein:

Long Con wrote:
Cursecrafter - Can create items to leave on a location that seem to have a minor positive effect, but may hide a greater negative one.
Misinformation/manipulation.

Long Con wrote:
Grim Shaman - Can use the powers of dead players, one-time use. *secrets*
Confirmed bad. Offensive/discovery role.

Long Con wrote:
Infectious Goblin - Targets a player to poison each night. Players who are poisoned get votes for them multiplied by their poison counters. Poison counters increase each night. Can poison an Item and leave it in a square for a player to find.
Confirmed bad. Offensive/vote manipulation.

Long Con wrote:
Lich of Khastor Keep - Cannot be nightkilled while his phylactery exists. Each night, the Lich may discover the location of one player. Can stop one lynch.
Bad based on name alone. Godfather type role.

Long Con wrote:
Possessing Entity - *secrets*
No way this creep is civvie.

Long Con wrote:
Puppet Master - Can control the night powers of another player in close proximity.
Nightmare Fuel. Manipulation of others.

Long Con wrote:
Scrippleskitz - Starts out each lynch with -3 votes. *secrets*
Negative votes is not typically a civvie power, but *secrets* makes it hard to know for sure.

Long Con wrote:
Trickster - The Trickster can appear as any role to a role check, even after death. Can appear as any player in temp BTSC. The Trickster may leave a message behind in a square twice in the game, and may cast an illusion once in the game, causing a lynched person to seem as though they were the role of his choice.
Manipulation/misinformation.

You might notice somebody missing So as a bonus, here's #9:

Long Con wrote:
Splinter Twin - In addition to moving, Splinter Twin can choose to send his holographic self out two squares. He will enter BTSC with people on the same square as his holographic self, and only his physical form can suffer from targeted effects. His physical form can only been seen from one square away by ranged targeters.
I know we got a baddie result with this role with Floyd. But when I look at this role it doesn't scream baddie to me. It is defensive in nature, able to protect itself from harm. No offensive capabilities whatsoever.

I think Floyd's flip might have been Trickster influenced.

TH your last post just reminded me of this one; I see you do not have the MasterThief in there. That role steals items in addition to possibly info. Did this role not strike you as potentially baddie? More so than Skippleskrits, whom you say is potentially a civ?

Dom wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I don't know if Tranq is stupid enough to kill someone on the same square as he is, but I am not. Even if I had a kill, which I don't.

So Dom, who told you about MMs role?
Weren't you after TH for using Wifom????

Did you ever answer this Dom; who told you about MMs role?

I mean, it is possible to trick people without being named "the Trickster", lol.

Sorsha wrote:Well then MM and SVS, explain to me then how I've "tricked" or "played" Golden. You both seem to believe him civ, I have proven my role to him beyond his checks and you guys know I'm not the trickster. So how would I possibly be anything but civ here? I'm not understanding.

Well to be blunt I think you are the Master Thief. That was why I wanted to know the MTs alignment. I think you told him your role, but lied about your alignment.

I know I never thought Sorsha was the Trickster; I think the role I believe her to be in not clearly a civvie role.

Sorry so absent, Saturdays are generally family days for me.

Voting TH, MM is not bad, TH is. If not the Lich, he is the Lichs' teammate.

I don't know if Tranq is stupid enough to kill someone on the same square as he is, but I am not. Even if I had a kill, which I don't.

So Dom, who told you about MMs role?

I am gonna vote for Master Thief. I think there has been some wool pulling for sure, I don't see how that role is even ambiguous.

The point is that the person you suspect DID actually say they would consider voting for the Trickster.

S~V~S wrote:Sorry I even opened the can of worms there Matt, once I saw the way the people whom I suspect reacted to suspicion on you, like ravenous hounds,actually, I stepped back. But I am the one who started the whole thing,and I am sorry

How can anyone think the Master Thief is a civvie? Thieves eventually all get caught & go to jail to live with the other baddies, lol.

Might vote there or might vote Trickster, either one will clear up a lot of things, I think.

Um Golden? I can follow flimsily veiled innuendo as well as the next person

And Sorsha did not even bother to drape even a very wispy flimsy innuendo on it.

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

I was not asked about taking Timmer off of the poll.

Turnip Head wrote:
S~V~S wrote:If Timmer is going to keep hiding for the rest of the game in the Get Out of Lynch Free square, why are the rest of us even playing? He wins then, right?
Well he can't beat us all by his lonesome.

Sure he can:

Each baddie team of 4 must eliminate the other baddies, and have sufficient control of the game to ensure that no other faction can win, in order to achieve their Win Condition. Normally, this will occur when their team outnumbers the living Civvies.

So if his team eliminates the opposing kill, then there is no one to NK him if he never comes out of hiding, and eventually he will be alone with one other player, who he then NKs. Not likely but possible. He has been minimally meeting the participation criteria

If Timmer is going to keep hiding for the rest of the game in the Get Out of Lynch Free square, why are the rest of us even playing? He wins then, right?

Sorry I even opened the can of worms there Matt, once I saw the way the people whom I suspect reacted to suspicion on you, like ravenous hounds,actually, I stepped back. But I am the one who started the whole thing,and I am sorry

How can anyone think the Master Thief is a civvie? Thieves eventually all get caught & go to jail to live with the other baddies, lol.

Might vote there or might vote Trickster, either one will clear up a lot of things, I think.

Dom wrote:No, SVS, it's that you haven't given a single reason. I'd like to hear how I could be a periphery baddie. Which team am I on?

Don't make such a casual statement with zero reasoning and expect me to not respond.

Well you are on the poll today, so several people must think you are a baddie. My point was that you were, IMO, peripheral, perhaps a recruit. And if you are, I have no idea which team you are on. People try to make associations, but they are often wrong, so I don't spend alot of time on that unless the reason I suspect someone is based on interactions. I believe this is the second time I have said this in this game.

And I know Lorab trusts you, but I also know Lorab has a big heart and can be easy to trick because she WANTS to believe. I also know Golden trusts Lorab,which has given me pause about her, since I previously suspected her, and also, to a lesser extent, about you. But I know WHY he trusts her; I don't know why she trusts you. Just like she, or you, don't really know why I do NOT. Lets say it is a process of elimination based on a conversation I had with someone now dead.

If I ever vote for you, I will tell you why.

I did not vote for you or even make any effort to discuss you. I said you were a periphery baddie. If I voted for you, maybe, but I didn't.

How is that a no u?

No one is allowed to say anything about anyone who has said anything about them?

What No U? I voted for TH before, I think the Lich saved him.

The more I read, the more I think I was possibly wrong about Matt the other day. I think TH is more of a core baddie, and Dom more of a peripheral one, so at this point I am voting for TH. I think the Lich is a baddie, and I think the Lich saved him.

ebwop,

I think sorsha mistakenly trusted Mac, not mistrusted mac. Poor wording there.

I think Sorsha mistrusted mac,and has been annoyed at me since he died, tbh. I think her misplaced trust has led her to jump to false conclusions. And anyone who was aligned with MM would just be stupid to kill Hammy, lol. If anything that looked more like a set up kill to me.

I have to check with LC before I say a few things I would like to say about Mac and about secret roles and what I learned from a little research.

Gonna go with Timmer & TH, also Matt, and I was not sure about the 4th, but Dom for this post:

Dom wrote:SVS DID NOT vote for Luke at all.
SVS ONLY voted for juliets when it was a landslide lynch against her (and she was lynched after many attempts).
SVS was QUICK to vote Floyd.

When he KNOWS how I can be about people I care about like Jules, since it is the same reason I give him the pass all the time. This post is opportunistic in the extreme. Shame, Dom.

Personally I think, as I said regarding Bass, that letting the Circle entrench further and then handing them the Cabals kill is a bad idea. Especially if Sorsha is wrong about this person.

I am sure about 3 out of 4, not so much the 4th. I need to do some reading today.

Turnip Head wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I also think there is no question that TH is bad, what with the lynch stop.
That's a bulletproof theory you've got there. Don't forget I'm also Dr. Dre's evil sidekick.

I did not say it is bulletproof. Snideness does not suit you

My opinion on Matt is based inlarge part on his relationship to TH/Timmer. At this stage, I think there is no question that Timmer is bad, being both afk and off the poll. I also think there is no question that TH is bad, what with the lynch stop. Bass seems more disinterested than bad to me, although I tend to be notoriously wrong about him. If he is bad he is probably cabal, which would account for the disinterest with a dead team. But I would rather make a dent in the Circle before handing them the cabals kill.

So I am happy with my vote where it is.

He said roles,not rules. And what makes you think it is BTSC based? Some of it may be for all I know, but not allof it.

Dom wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I think Timmer was being thrown under the bus to save TH. He was the person who needed saving, the person who was NOT lynched via lynch save.

I think it is fairly obvious. You do not?

Linki, I think If *TH* is bad, then so is Matt. I think it likely Timmer is bad, too. But in any case, since Matts guilt is predicated on other peoples, I would rather lynch those other people first. So I am going to vote TH when the poll allows it. A saveof TH makes the most sense to me. The fact that Timmer is off the poll actually makes Matt look better to me, like with Timmeroff the poll Matt would be an obvious choice; a set up.
No because I'm not sure I suspect TH in the first place. I think Matt might've thrown Timmer under the bus to gain cred.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Well I'm not bad so that theory is wrong.
Well you haven't offered any thoughts so I don't care what you say about this until you offer something real. Honestly what the hell? You have time to make all of these quips, but not contribute substantially because you've coasted your way through this game.

You are bad.

S~V~S wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:And how do you come up with Matt and I being teammates? Lol he's been going after me for damn near half the game. Good luck getting that theory to make any sense.
Why not? He voted for Meyalmarsh the last three days,when it might have counted, not for you.

THIS post is all WIFOM, TH.
Your premise is also all WIFOM, though.

No, I don't really think it is. It is a theory based on Matt holding info. Had Timmer been on the poll, I doubt I would have extrapolated this far, but he isn't

If anything, Timmer being of the poll makes me kinda somewhat less likely to think Matt is bad (a tiny bit), although he continuously makes moves towards those that I trust, and for MATT of all people to hold that list when he sees nothing wrong with discussing it is still wildly provacative in my eyes.

I thought Timmer was being bussed to save TH, who went on to not die. I think the Lich saved TH, and I think the Lich is bad. I know, as Tranq pointed out, that there is another save, from a friendlier sounding role, but I do not think that that is who saved TH. TH being saved made me think he was bad even MORE than I had thought.

And TH, people going after each other for long stretches means nothing. You were still on break when we played WWE~ my teammate, MP, threw me under the bus HARD day one or two. His over aggression got HIM lynched eventiually (and this was not something we were sniggering over in the chatroom; it was tense & it was hostile for a bit, lol) and I was stonecold civ the rest of the game. That is how distancing works (although this was a silly extreme case). In any case, I am more sure of you than of Matt, basedon Timmer being off the poll. Matt may have simply played into your hands, although, again, I am having problems seeing him as a civ.

Gonna vote TH for now.

I am also suspecting you based on surviving that lynch

And the point about Matts votes was that your post that said it was ludicrous that you & Matt could be on the same team was specious, since even if he was after you for half the game, he never actually did anything to endanger you. So saying it made no sense for you & he to be on the same team is actually not correct.

I was just pointing that out.

I just looked; he never voted for you as a final vote.

Turnip Head wrote:And how do you come up with Matt and I being teammates? Lol he's been going after me for damn near half the game. Good luck getting that theory to make any sense.

Why not? He voted for Meyalmarsh the last three days,when it might have counted, not for you.

THIS post is all WIFOM, TH.

I think there was a fail attempt to save TH by pushing Timmer with the sudden appearance of the list. That was why I found it so suspicious.

Regardless of our differing thoughts on the mechanics,with Timmer off the table,I think we will learn the most from a TH lynch.

Linki, @ Golden, lol

I think Timmer was being thrown under the bus to save TH. He was the person who needed saving, the person who was NOT lynched via lynch save.

I think it is fairly obvious. You do not?

Linki, I think If *TH* is bad, then so is Matt. I think it likely Timmer is bad, too. But in any case, since Matts guilt is predicated on other peoples, I would rather lynch those other people first. So I am going to vote TH when the poll allows it. A saveof TH makes the most sense to me. The fact that Timmer is off the poll actually makes Matt look better to me, like with Timmeroff the poll Matt would be an obvious choice; a set up.

I think lynching Matt before TH is putting the cart before the horse. The main reason I suspect him is the connection to Timmer, and subsequently to TH. The only person he could have been saving with that list is TH.

Golden wrote:
LoRab wrote:Personally, I'm still looking at timer. Would consider Matt or bass. Those are my top tier suspicions so to speak.
This is exactly how I feel right now. I can't see any reason not to rinse and repeat on timmer. Bass would be my second highest suspicion, I feel pretty confident he was responsible for the death of Bullz last night. Matt is sort of a distant third and also put TH in there with Matt.

Also, I'm fairly convinced LoRab is on the side of good

Now see, I think the person that was being saved very possibly was TH. I looked at the roles, and the lynch save I saw was the Lich. A "Lich" just sounds like a baddie based on fantasy lore.

So today I would be happiest with a TH lynch, or equally, a Timmer lynch. Since my suspicion of Matt is based on connection to my mind with Timmer and TH, if they don't flip bad, I have no reason to suspect Matt. THs defenses are a lot of WIFOM, tbh, and it reallly did feel to me that Matt was throwing Timmer under the bus, and the only person I saw who needed saving was TH. So

those are my thoughts at this time.

Wow, MP Spamaster Deluxe lol.

Matt wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Think of it as Scooby Doo mystery. A lot of the fun of it all would be reduced if, during the first scene, you saw the monster mask hanging out of the creepy old caretakers pocket.
I suppose LC/BR were trying to take the fun away then by encouraging us to speak about map locations?

Linki - Lol. I think you're fibbing, SVS. I think if you were really upset at me "breaking the spirit of the game", you'd be furious and it would show. I think you're just trying to get a civvie lynched.

A couple posts ago, you even reference civvies sharing information but purposely excluding me, and the way it was said I feel like you were saying I was an excluded civvie, not an excluded baddie. This doesn't ring right to me.

Anyway, we'll see what our hosts say before we continue. Otherwise, circles.

Even if the hosts say noone was reprimanded, it will not change my opinion about fairness in gaming. It isn't about rules, it is about sportmanship.

And I am not furious, I am disappointed. And I am not trying to get a civvie lynched, I am trying to get a baddie lynched, Matt. Hopefully, several of them

All of them, even.

Linki @ Bullz, I think that, they got complacent, cocky & sloppy.

In any case, if this is your belief, all the more reason to

you for not spilling the list days ago.

Think of it as Scooby Doo mystery. A lot of the fun of it all would be reduced if, during the first scene, you saw the monster mask hanging out of the creepy old caretakers pocket.

You are missing the point.

No ,not "Not sharing info" I meant not using it as the basis for a case and building a tunnel out of it, as YOU (not me, YOU) might beexpected to do. You can stop trying to switch my very obvious meaning back onto me. Other than that one post, you sat on it for days. I think you were thrwoing Timmer under the bus in order to save someone else, tbh.

Which is why I immediately voted for him. And I clearly said so at the time. I think you chucked Timmer under the Greyhound, which would make him bad.

EBWOP, Day 8

I just got a new computer, and the keyboard is smaller & somewhat differently laid out, so I have been typo-ing even more than usual

Imma cut this up as there is so much to respond to doing it at the end will be confusing. Replies in Pedantic.

Matt wrote:
1. Too little too late? This reads to me like you know 100% that Timmer will flip bad. I think he will, especially given the results last night and Timmer's, again, outright neglect to answer my question on why he refused to refute your claims that we are partners, but I'm not at 100%. Are you at 100% SVS? Because ever since the list has been brought up, you've been all over me like I'm Timmer's baddie partner w/o even knowing if Timmer is bad yet.

I do not know that 100%. I have made an educated guess that points to him being bad. You keeping that info under your hat pretty much convinced me of it, though.

Speaking of which, SVS, what do you think of Timmer's outright refusal to comment on your accusations of me and him? Him staying silent makes me look worse, IMO, so agaiin Tim Tim, good job. SVS, if I really was Timmer's teammate, do you think he would refute your claims or stay silent on the matter?

I don't think he is making you look worse, and he has repeatedly said he is not engaging,butkeepsdpoing so anyhow. I think is making HIMSELF look worse,which is maybe the point, hrm?

Per the underline, SVS is tunneling me right now so I'm not sure she'll believe this, so hey Lorab, can you let SVS know that I did not know what the Obsidian Dagger (or any of the other items) did, all I had was a name to an item? Thank you.

That should have been in sarcasm, Matt. Ithink I know what a "list" is.

Again, yes, I had this info for three days and said nothing. Why? Because it simply didn't occur to me. The list had many items on it, and it's not as if Obsidian Dagger was in big font, bright colors, it was smack in the middle of the rest of the items, and unfortunately, while Timmer was discussing this supposed other item he had instead, it never clicked for me to ask. But once Tranq asked the name of the item, I had that very awesome "a-ha!" moment, and pursued it myself. In fact, I'd dare say w/o me bringing up the list yesterday, Timmer wouldn't have gotten all those votes so quickly following.

I know we addressed this before,but you are the guy who can drag one vote in a day zero poll into a whole games worth of tunnelling. There was much discussion of this dagger, and you never even looked at yourlist? OK, sure.

I also find it HILARIOUS that SVS is on my case for not sharing information, then goes on to say she won't share information. On that note, btw, the baddies more then likely have much more information then any one civvie, so I would say my asking people to spill what they know would help the town immensely more then it would the Mafia, but hey, if you don't want to share SVS, and town loses, that's on you.

Did it ever occur to you that the civs might have already spilled,and excluded you? And playing a fair game is more important to me than winning, I would rather lose than win via a method I consider to be unfair. So if me not spilling what I know to the thread at large,as opposed to individuals I trust leads the town tolose, Iam sorry, but that's just how it is.

Also, here is a post of yours from Mon., Nov 16:

Matt wrote:Drac, do you think the person with the Obsidian Dagger killed Epig to frame you or juliets, or do you think you or juliets killed Epig?

Which was an odd thing to day considering that Golden had SAID Timmer was the dagger user. The point is though ,you had followed the dagger discussion BEFORE you got your list

Then this isfrom Day *,Fri Nov 20, after you got the list.

Matt wrote:I dunno about Lorab. Again, the first two times juliets was lynched Lorab voted for Mac.

Here is an interesting quote from after Mac was non-lynched...

LoRab wrote:
MacDougall wrote:No tie breaker = juliets has negative votes right?
Or you have additional votes.
She would eventually place a vote on juliets after this was said (after 7 others did and she was clearly being lynched that day), but I dunno. Does this seem like she's defending juliets or is she still eyeing Mac?

Also, Epig specifically asked Lorab how she felt about Luke after Luke was lynched. Lorab said she would elaborate on her thoughts on Luke later, but never does, save one post where she believes that juliet was a Luke teamie.

Shortly afterwards, Epig was killed by the Obsidian Dagger. I wonder, why would Epig specifically ask Lorab about Luke?

Again, kinda linking the dagger to people other than Timmer. But again, you were well aware of the dagger discussion.

Matt wrote:Elaborate. What situation doesn't read right? Me having a list and not revealing that? Lorab, who you trust, has had a list two days longer then I have. Or do you mean Turnip getting lynched in place of Timmer? That seems weird to me, too, and considering Timmer's outright neglect to challenge SVS on her accusations of me and him, as well as his own responses to me, make me want to lynch the guy next day phase.

Claim =/= suspicion, Matt, and claim=/= belief. And yeah, I am sure you do want to lynch him tomorrow. Like Juliets, too little too late IMO. An.d my point was that YOU, Matt, had a list for 3 days & made a tangent vote each day. You made no attempt to discuss Timmer or this list. When thediscussion was about items, and you knew what they were and did not bring this up? I am sorry, but I don't think I buy that.

Tell me, Matt, what is your opinion of TH being the person apparently lynched, and then surviving?

I have no intention of "spilling" anything I have learned on the map even if it is not explicitly against the rules. I am a firm believer in playing with the spirit of the law in mind as opposed to the letter of the law, and I don't want to make it necessary for hosts to have 2 pages of explicit rules in order to play a game without "spoilers".

I am voting Yes! I love a good posting contest

This whole thing reminds me of MPs "parchment" in SOT. I am not liking it, and the fact that it involves the 3 people I listed in my

post answer to Dom about whom I suspected is kinda

Bullzeye wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?
That depends on what you're seeing.

Am *I* tunneling?

Am I on drugs,or is anyone else seeing what I am seeing?

Bullzeye wrote:To be fair re: them both withholding the info, the past bunch of lynches have been massive bandwagons. Practically nobody has voted against the mainstream in days.

Matt F has voted for Metalmarsh every day since he had this info

MATT F. Think about that. He had info for a week, and voted for a tangent candidate that he only pushed in a very wishy washy way.

I am also going to vote for Timmer, but this REALLLLLLLLYYYYY feels like throwing the teammate who has given up anyhow under the bus super mega hard.

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