The Syndicate

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:26 am Can't do better than voting Mafia. It's pretty disingenuous to label it as an OMGUS vote, I clearly mentioned your behavior of obsessing over inactives as well as your comment accompanying the vote. Also an omgus would imply that you actually suspected me rather than just a joke vote.

This is a bullshit argument. You tagging me and mentioning me throughout the phase when I haven't even entered the thread doesn't align with that at all. I'd accept that if I was already here and doing nothing or dipped, and you wanted to hear more about me. It comes off more as scum having trouble engaging with the happenings of the thread and creating content, and then using inactives to that end. It's a cheap way of selling an engaged and concerned vibe.

Post 425: Case in point in this post. It's an awful post, even worse is I, a no poster, is mentioned in it. Like how was I even worthy of mentioning at all in it as an option. The "seems better thzn chopping a no-show in Hugh" is ridiculous. It's the scum having troubled to create genuine substance I'm talking about. You're using that bit as a way to sell of your vote and fluffing your post. Same with Milhouse there.

I haven't read everything yet.

you just made me ISO myself, and I resent that

I tagged you one singular time before D2 (and it was after people started pressuring Homer for dipping, so seems relevant to the situation at the time of you still not having posted by then), mentioned you a couple times when talking about zero posters (a shocking twist that you, a zero poster, would be mentioned in such a thing)

anyways, where I come from, inactivity ends up being a scum-tell more often than it doesn't

that may not be the case here and I accept that, and I am trying to not base my reads and moves solely off of that

Speaking of "here," is there any way to see vote history?

I'm pretty sure when I switched my vote to Lisa at the end of D1, I was the only voter on her, or maybe the second (leave obvious room for error here since apparently my memory is absolute garbage). Who did I sell my vote to? Then I switched to the Milhouse wagon, which clearly parses since, as you describe, I'm "weirdly obsessed" with inactives

(even though my case on Milhouse went beyond simply not being here: it was based on him coming by to drop a single town/scum wall and then disappearing again; not participating and then showing up to offer no actionable reads before going back to not participating is not town-y, and in a world of claims and spew, seemed as good a choice as any)

Do you suspect me for being absent up until the last half hour or so?

To the thread, to anyone reading your posts. I didn't mean it as in you trying to get people to join on that wagon, more like selling it as legitimate I guess.

What was suspicious about him dropping that town/scum wall? Did you have no other wolf read from D1?

I don't strongly suspect you right now

The issue with a slank read is that they kind of crumble if the person comes back and starts genuinely contributing.

I don't like your contributions, of course, but it's substance, and so early in the day I'm not feeling like you're "best chance to be a wolf," especially with a solid half of the players not yet here

What I find suspicious about town/scum walls is that they are easily abandoned or manipulated. It just encourages the reader to inject their own bias, and then the person who made the wall can play off that instead of coming up with anything themselves. A "this is towny" or "this is wolfy" here or there isn't a big deal, but if a wall of "town" and "wolf" is all that's offered, I find it really difficult to see it as anything more than noise

the only options available to a reader are to pressure for info, agree with a read and inject your own reasoning, or disagree with a read and inject your own reasoning

the latter two options are particularly problematic because you can get the replier to make your case for you. it's free real estate reads

I haven't had strong "they will flip wolf" reads yet. I did when Homer first did his thing (intro, then flat out rejected participating), and then when Flanders did his thing (refusing to justify reads, just expecting us to listen to him). The first... is on ice because Marge was really insistent it was "good enough for D1" and then other wagons took up speed. I am rather interested in what Homer does D2 and if Marge still hard defends him. The second evaporated the second Flanders spewed himself clear.

What do you suspect me for?

Not sure what this line is a response to, or about.

I guess you can respond to this one alongside my first question. Interested in what you don't like about it.

I'm not sure how exactly they can play off of it. When they start posting more, wouldn't they be forced to actually to come up with something themselves? Like I'm not sure how it is so agenda-y which makes me unable to see how it's inherently scummy on its own. Is your issue with it the reactions its provide that can then be used by the when making it to fake cases? If so, aren't reaction reads a staple of civilian reads? What made this one evil?

Fair enough. Do you usually find suspicious not participation or shitposts by default? Also if it isn't against the rules, could you share which forum do you usually play at?

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:19 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:11 am Now can I please go back to reading in peace? Thank you.

Sure...because I would certainly love to see you produce a read on someone who isn't already dead or one of yesterdays lead wagons...that sort of actual effort might make a difference here.

I see you're conceding your initial point. I accept it.

Finally caught up! I'm feeling things, feeling a lot of things but I'm having trouble trying to put them into words lol. It was also pretty difficult internalizing information, felt like reading posts from new players everywhere and the lack of familiarity with avys I guess you get lost sometimes and don't even remember who said what.

I think my strongest town reads would be Marge, Otto and Alison. Found myself agreeing with like almost everything Marge saying and that's pretty crazy lol. We have the two same scum reads and like most of her posts comes off as natural and you can see her train of thoughts. They're like open and accessible if that makes any sense, doesn't feel like there is an agenda behind them. I usually find the "lol" and other laughing acronyms as scum tells sometimes when they don't really match the tone and vibe of a player, and they're like using them to sweeten their post and comes off as anxious. Here it feels like she's just having fun, and it kind of gives off a good care free vibe that is townie.

Otto and Alison are the og contributors of the thread. I liked the energy they came in with, and it felt like it came with genuine game solving intent. Didn't really agree all that much with some of Otto's reads but they felt genuine, a lot of progression and reconsiderations which makes me feel like he's trying to figure out people for real and not just putting a show. I particularly liked post 72, I think it's the kind of post that only town does. It's nothing fancy but like scum never make them because they're never solving for real. I don't know if this make any sense lol, it's like the kind of self reflecting and gathering of thoughts that comes from a townie mindset when they're trying to get a feel for the state of the game. Agreed with his Gtumple take, felt also genuine and not like him wanting to get Grumple off his back. I understand it too 'cause you usually can have personal takes on how someone is treating you so you can get reads from it, I'm a no u specialist since I feel like I have good instincts for when scum is pushing me for bullshit reasons lol. Overall have the same thought about Alison, I liked her Gramps take and while I started suspecting him for different and more personal reasons, her take are good. The change of speed of Gramps is particularily telling. I also like her feelings about the state of the game and how its going, feel like genuine town concerns.

Pretty much agree with Marge about Homer. The idgaf attitude her and not tailoring his game to people especially after getting prodded is more likely town than not. Also it actually feels genuine, rather than like a scum trying to sell that fake bravado. He kind of embodies it here lol. The lock town on Mill is absolutely beautiful.

I'm having some trouble with CBG, little bit of a love hate relationship. I kind of read his concise posts as town like, they feel like naked thoughts and right to the point. Also some of the silly one liners he's dished have surprisingly pinged me town lol. He has that same attitude vibe that Homer have, although it's not something that is unfakeable (if that is word). Not sure if I'm dumb but post 417 is town for me lmao. We have Mill about to get eliminated, and it's like a meme-y mafia read on him that I just don't think Mafia ever makes. It's fucking hilarious.

Unlike his parents, I have no fucking clue who Bart is. He's in my townpile though. I guess for the bland reasons that his thoughts are genuine bla bla bla lol. I kind of like the little work he's done when he's been playing the game and contributing. Feels real to me, and while it actually matches other peoples reads especially the scum reads, it kind of comes off as he's coming into them on his own like he's playing the game at his own pace.

Kristy, and Lisa are in my PoE. I haven't really figured them out much and some stuff have pinged me. Also not a lot of things to work with. Krusty gives off a weird disattached vibe, like he's a robot if that makes sense lol. There is like no emotion accompanying his posts and it comes off as if he's not actually trying to figure people out just asking questions. Speaking of questions, I'm not seeing him reach much conclusions and seems like he's just faking contributions through those questions who don't seem most of the time to be stuff that will actually help him figure someone out. More like bland and semantic stuff that I guess help him fake contribution. I think his take on Mill's wall post is the kind of wolfy remark used to shade others. He's like piggy backing off others when they're discussing Mill, and he just pops in to point out something that can be seen as scummy and then nothing further. He dips from there with clean hands. Kind of saw it that way.

Not a big fan of Lisa's little contribution. Feels like she's hunting some easy posts to go off of, and then just share some bland takes. She's kind of using them to appear as if contributing. It's not the lack of reasoning that is off to me, it's more like they seem to be random as hell. There is no train of thoughts or contuinity to them, she's not like quoting different posts about a same discussion trying to give her thoughts about them or add to the discussion. She's more putting her hand into a lot of different discussion to I guess appear more visible, and broaden her reach.

Already talked about Gramps and Burns who are at the bottom of my PoE. Haven't really moved much off of them after catching up completely, although I'd say I'm still mulling over some things I've seen from Gramps. Also the inactives thing could be a culture/playstyle clash, but even then I'm not a big fan of the rest of his contribution. The gear shift that Alison built her case on is something I agree with as well. Scums are more likely to make it when called out, and it kind of shows that whatever vibe or attitude they had prior was fake.

I still fucking hate Mr. Burns with a passion. I think he was trying to discredit early on Alison and Otto with the fear mongering about them potentially power wolfing. It's a cheap way to shade someone while posing it as a an open ended question, "oh I'm just aking myself" "I'm not sure". It sounds so fucking fake, and it's usually the kind of cowardy wolf tactics to shade loud voices. No fucking townie put that thought out there immediately. It's so slimy lol.

I've got more thoughts there, and also more thoughts in general but this is it for this post. It actually fucking sucks to come from behind 'cause I have so many problems trying to put into words everything I want to say lol. I guess that'll serve me missing the whole phase. Hopefully I'll keep being up to date this phase. I initially thought about iso-ing every single player and then sharing my thoughts posts by posts as that'd be easier, but fuck that lmao.

Now can I please go back to reading in peace? Thank you.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:52 am

I have made reads. I called Mill a townie, and he flipped Town. I called Gramps a wolf, and I'm calling you one now.

three names drawn apparently from a hat and attached to words aren't "reads."

Mill -

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:02 pm Mill is town for that post calling alignment based on entrance posts. I'm having trouble seeing a flanking wolf do that post and then just dip, it's the kind of unprompted things that usually comes from town, like I guess he had the urge to do alignment guesses for fun.

Gramps -
You -

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:44 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

I hate this read. I think this comes from a wolf more often than not, like it doesn't feel real at all. It's scheme-y as hell, the way he engages and accept the suspicion on gramps at a superficial level without getting into anything concrete, while at the same time shading me who also happen to be at odds with the gramps.

Like the way he goes one about gramps being suspicious for several reasons, and me suspecting me for none of those reasons. The emphasis of none feels fake lol.

Waiting for him to expand.

Cool story bro

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:52 am

I have made reads. I called Mill a townie, and he flipped Town. I called Gramps a wolf, and I'm calling you one now.

Sorry twenty minute man, but I just am not ready to buy into "I showed up, skimmed the thread, and KNEW the low poster was town." If you did REALLY KNOW it's because he wasn't in your wolf room. If you are just "well, he was no worse than rand and I happened to guess right" then get off your high horse.

I absolutely couldn't care less if you're buying into whatever "it" is lol. There is also no "KNEW", you're being extremely disingenuous here. It is expected though. I highlighted the read I made on Mill just in response to you saying I haven't made any reads.

He was indeed no worse than rand, and that is my opinion lol. I'm not on any high horse, you're the one apparently all worked up. Relax, buddy.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:26 am Can't do better than voting Mafia. It's pretty disingenuous to label it as an OMGUS vote, I clearly mentioned your behavior of obsessing over inactives as well as your comment accompanying the vote. Also an omgus would imply that you actually suspected me rather than just a joke vote.

This is a bullshit argument. You tagging me and mentioning me throughout the phase when I haven't even entered the thread doesn't align with that at all. I'd accept that if I was already here and doing nothing or dipped, and you wanted to hear more about me. It comes off more as scum having trouble engaging with the happenings of the thread and creating content, and then using inactives to that end. It's a cheap way of selling an engaged and concerned vibe.

Post 425: Case in point in this post. It's an awful post, even worse is I, a no poster, is mentioned in it. Like how was I even worthy of mentioning at all in it as an option. The "seems better thzn chopping a no-show in Hugh" is ridiculous. It's the scum having troubled to create genuine substance I'm talking about. You're using that bit as a way to sell of your vote and fluffing your post. Same with Milhouse there.

I haven't read everything yet.

you just made me ISO myself, and I resent that

I tagged you one singular time before D2 (and it was after people started pressuring Homer for dipping, so seems relevant to the situation at the time of you still not having posted by then), mentioned you a couple times when talking about zero posters (a shocking twist that you, a zero poster, would be mentioned in such a thing)

anyways, where I come from, inactivity ends up being a scum-tell more often than it doesn't

that may not be the case here and I accept that, and I am trying to not base my reads and moves solely off of that

Speaking of "here," is there any way to see vote history?

I'm pretty sure when I switched my vote to Lisa at the end of D1, I was the only voter on her, or maybe the second (leave obvious room for error here since apparently my memory is absolute garbage). Who did I sell my vote to? Then I switched to the Milhouse wagon, which clearly parses since, as you describe, I'm "weirdly obsessed" with inactives

(even though my case on Milhouse went beyond simply not being here: it was based on him coming by to drop a single town/scum wall and then disappearing again; not participating and then showing up to offer no actionable reads before going back to not participating is not town-y, and in a world of claims and spew, seemed as good a choice as any)

Do you suspect me for being absent up until the last half hour or so?

To the thread, to anyone reading your posts. I didn't mean it as in you trying to get people to join on that wagon, more like selling it as legitimate I guess.

What was suspicious about him dropping that town/scum wall? Did you have no other wolf read from D1?

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:45 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:44 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

I hate this read. I think this comes from a wolf more often than not, like it doesn't feel real at all. It's scheme-y as hell, the way he engages and accept the suspicion on gramps at a superficial level without getting into anything concrete, while at the same time shading me who also happen to be at odds with the gramps.

Like the way he goes one about gramps being suspicious for several reasons, and me suspecting me for none of those reasons. The emphasis of none feels fake lol.

Waiting for him to expand.

At least I have made reads twenty minute man.

[VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine

I have made reads. I called Mill a townie, and he flipped Town. I called Gramps a wolf, and I'm calling you one now.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:29 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

Expand.

Unlike Allison I think your "burst of activity" looked terrible. As in "okay, got a free day, now lemme not get subbed out." Your vote looked random at best, opportunistic at worst. And your whining about the game state is just irritating as hell.

NOBODY was ecstatic about chopping a low poster...but nobody had a solid wolf read to put up instead either, least of all you. Most of us had to deal with that, and you come waltzing in at the end having done FUCK ALL and smugly spout about how we should have chopped better? NO SHIT we should have chopped better, and if a bunch of people hadn't lamed off the day JUST LIKE YOU DID maybe we would have.

Now you had your "big EoD outburst" and a 24 hour night phase went by and you are back...and getting ready to start catching up. I get it, some people sign up and life catches them, and some people just wanna put nothing into the game...but coming in here with this "I was here for twenty minutes and y'all bad chopped" is flatly infuriating.

I'm not sure why I'm being compared to Allison, she's been around much earlier than me and has been active throughout a good period of the phase from what I see. I guess we have in common our suspicion of Gramps, is that why you're comparing me to her.

If I didn't want to get subbed out, I could have just asked the host not to, and that I would be present the next phase.

It was neither random, nor opportunistic. I'd like you to expand on the latter, also comment on my other post about Gramps that I'e made having had more than 20min in the thread.

I'm not whining, I'm sharing my thoughts. That being irritating to you is subjective. Is that scummy?

You had 48 hours to come up with solid wolf read, and get them eliminated rather than settling on someone with 2 posts. I didn't do anything because I was absent due to personal reasons that do not concern you. There is nothing smug about calling the elimination that happened garbage.

Relax, buddy.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

I hate this read. I think this comes from a wolf more often than not, like it doesn't feel real at all. It's scheme-y as hell, the way he engages and accept the suspicion on gramps at a superficial level without getting into anything concrete, while at the same time shading me who also happen to be at odds with the gramps.

Like the way he goes one about gramps being suspicious for several reasons, and me suspecting me for none of those reasons. The emphasis of none feels fake lol.

Waiting for him to expand.

Also playing on phone sucks

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:18 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:07 am That was a garbage elimination.

10 mins since you posted that, and crickets.
Is that really all you've got on the game so far? I'd like to read what you have to say

That's 10min I used to continue reading and responding to Gramps.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

Expand.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:18 pm

Spoiler: show

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:03 pm Grandpa is creeping me out. Seems to have had a weird obsession with inactives and especially me. He tagged me, and mentioned my name a couple of times.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:07 pm [VOTE: Grampa] aubergine

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

To just vote, not talk.

@Hugh Jass: This'll come across defensive as hell since it's coming from me, but was an OMGUS vote—based on a joke vote from the beginning of the game—right before EOD really the best you were able to muster in a little over half an hour? After a day of being able to read back, what are your reads, if any?

Same to you @Milhouse Van Houten. Anything beyond the town/scum wall now?

Hugh, you mentioned I have a "weird obsession" with inactives, but this is why. We have nothing (majorly actionable) to work off of from you two after an entire cycle. I'm not asking you to flood us with in-depth reads, nobody's really doing that, but like, something? Anything? After 72 hours, what's the scoop?

Before the spew clear and role claim I was pretty comfortable with the Flanders/Skinner wagons, and hadn't really built a major POE beyond that except with poking holes in what Marge was saying re: Homer and generally being unimpressed with Milhouse's empty wall. Will need to fix that today at some point.

Can't do better than voting Mafia. It's pretty disingenuous to label it as an OMGUS vote, I clearly mentioned your behavior of obsessing over inactives as well as your comment accompanying the vote. Also an omgus would imply that you actually suspected me rather than just a joke vote.

This is a bullshit argument. You tagging me and mentioning me throughout the phase when I haven't even entered the thread doesn't align with that at all. I'd accept that if I was already here and doing nothing or dipped, and you wanted to hear more about me. It comes off more as scum having trouble engaging with the happenings of the thread and creating content, and then using inactives to that end. It's a cheap way of selling an engaged and concerned vibe.

Post 425: Case in point in this post. It's an awful post, even worse is I, a no poster, is mentioned in it. Like how was I even worthy of mentioning at all in it as an option. The "seems better thzn chopping a no-show in Hugh" is ridiculous. It's the scum having troubled to create genuine substance I'm talking about. You're using that bit as a way to sell of your vote and fluffing your post. Same with Milhouse there.

I haven't read everything yet.

That was a garbage elimination.

Anyone else here?

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

To just vote, not talk.

Why are you on Mill?

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

Grandpa is creeping me out. Seems to have had a weird obsession with inactives and especially me. He tagged me, and mentioned my name a couple of times.

Mill is town for that post calling alignment based on entrance posts. I'm having trouble seeing a flanking wolf do that post and then just dip, it's the kind of unprompted things that usually comes from town, like I guess he had the urge to do alignment guesses for fun.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:52 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:51 pmI'm alive!

Weren't you before now?

Don't quote me please, let me work my magic

Really sorry about missing almost the whole phase, especially to our host. I'll try to skim through and see what I can do here. Wish me luck

I'm alive!