The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:23 pm Oh yeah, @MacDougall I forbid you from bringing up Assassination Classroom when I am unable to defend myself.

lol

nice

good job everyone... fun game

But no... that's for someone else in f3.

We have to solve between Achro and Falcon. And I'm going with Achro for a few reasons. Dead town sheep. TMI. But mostly because if Achro doesn't die here and I get killed I'm not confident he makes f3 very hard for whoever is there. I think town has a better chance to win an f3 without him in it. That's not me saying you'd vote bad btw achro I think you just win the game as mafia in f3.

Wilgy voting Porscha and leaving without assessing whether Porscha was even viable or anything is the height of terrible btw. I almost just wanna kill him for his terrible play here. All he's being cleared for is wifom.

I'm going to vote achro here very begrudgingly just because I don't want to deal with him in f3. Sorry if wrong achro.

I wish Wilgy had have not arbitrarily excluded Falcon from his solving efforts. Really annoying.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:20 am plus idk who wolf mac is, so

Your only seeming point of doubt in me is that i suspected seanzie day 1. Well I dunno if you noticed but many people voted him by end of day mostly sheeping me. So I can't have been that irrational can I? If I was then why were there ppl sheeping me? Oh... yeah. There you go. That's why I'm town.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:43 am mac did you really think sean was wolf day 1 cuz like idk

Yes. I can't read Seanzie well. This isn't new for me lol. And he was pushing me as well and was wrong so are you gonna suspect him from the grave for being wrong?

I dunno why you're tinfoiling me all of a sudden. I'm way out of my scumrange on this day 3 play. Before this day maybe reasonable if you think Sabi and I are both masters of distancing. She literally got mad at me for sussing her and said old age has hit me hard I mean cmon lol.

I agree that Wilgy has a fair bit too much in his favour now for me to be voting him today.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:57 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:24 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:13 am Mac why did you vote falcon day 2
Because I thought Falcon was mafia.
uh huh, but why
Because on day 1 Falcon did not post much and when he did it was awkward and stilted.
were the day 1 votes ever a consideration for your feelings towards falcon? since him sabi and achro all had the same votes.

Yes I considered it both ways multiple times, but I am conscious of the fact that at the end of day 1 it reads like Sabi and Achro are the ones that coordinated to create the wagons and Falcon was just along for the ride.

Falcon has a few things in his favour.

I am pretty comfortable with the dichotomy Falcon/Achro though. I am very much struggling to figure out which of them it is. Level 1 says it's Falcon but Achro is a challenge. Falcon pushing me the way he has is kind of not really all that logical for a wolf to be doing. Achro has certainly played this game a lot more like someone who is aware that I am town than Falcon has.

Come to think of it perhaps that's what I should hang my hat on here.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:00 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:57 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:24 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:13 am Mac why did you vote falcon day 2
Because I thought Falcon was mafia.
uh huh, but why
Because on day 1 Falcon did not post much and when he did it was awkward and stilted.
and do you think that since his day 1 posts this has changed?

Not really. He's currently the person I am most likely to vote for.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:24 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:13 am Mac why did you vote falcon day 2
Because I thought Falcon was mafia.
uh huh, but why

Because on day 1 Falcon did not post much and when he did it was awkward and stilted.

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:13 am Mac why did you vote falcon day 2

Because I thought Falcon was mafia.

so wilgy who are you gonna vote?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:36 pm Here's what gives me hold.

I agreed with Falcon D1 that Achro was a hit. Never got around to changing my vote but would've. Those thoughts linger, and I do agree that the post I quoted earlier was decently hedgehoggin more than clearing.

I didn't have a hard scum read on Mac, but reading Sean's ISO gives me pause. Also I do have an inclination to think that T Mac is more form towards me, slank or not, and I'm not feeling it this game. That's just a gut thing tho.

Now read my ISO.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:32 pm Like, Yeah Seanzie could've been a Sabi shot, but I don't feel it.

I'd think Falcon to hit a win condition wouldn't have been inclined to hit NAA though.

Achro/Mac would have shot there, I think.

Seanzie wasn't shot you nerd lol.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:11 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:52 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:06 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:05 pm
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:46 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:38 pm Your day 1 talks about Sabi are pretty sus, and atp I have various degrees of reasons to like everyone else.

I think team of sabi/falcon day 1 let's me die
Porscha is coming off completely different from their last scum game
Wilgy felt super genuine reacting to the quickness of the hammer
Interesting. Wilgy & I went from TR's to your only SRs. Rather quickly
Falcon there are 5 people and like at any given moment at least 2 people, if not 3, are not in a players POE. Like in what universe does achro tinfoil me and mac over you and wilgy rn
Well, he had Wilgy and I as TR earlier, and there's only 5 players, which means necessarily Mac was his tinfoil yesterday. I guess in this universe. The very one we live in right now.
Fixed
what's your solve right now
Archo, Wilgy

I am having trouble seeing you as Maf here, and Mac has done some towny stuff as of late IMO

So your perspective on me is that prior to today I was in fact not townie?

Lol it's not the same cuz it's day 3 in a tiny mountainous game. Lylo was day 6 there.

Also I was just basking in my own glory like a douchebag.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 8:51 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Tue May 15, 2018 8:31 pm I doubt a stronger presence from me would have done us any difference.

But hey, glad I was at least right about DDL in the end... Ever the smallest consolation.

Great job mafia. This just might go down as baddie performance of the year.
I dunno bout that man. You were easy for us to push as a bad guy and it is very necessary for bad guys to have civs like that to point at that look more bad than you do.

Civs just gotta be more civ tbh.

So my intention was to win this game with both Epignosis and Jay at the end game just to see if we could. Sadly Epignosis was killed by a civ vig. The methodology I personally used this game was relatively simple. I just buddied Jay and pointed out all the bad civ play that I could and dismissed bad civ case making (even when the bad civ case making was accurate, like when I defended Wolbre). DDL and I did some very soft distancing. The main reason the civs lost this game is because:

1. Failure to lynch one of us quick enough to utilise a scum flip for clues (though it's arguable it would have helped as we didn't look very team compatible anyway).
2. Epignosis and Jay were too preoccupied in the early game with their endless dick swinging match to actually use their skills to find actual bad guys. Even my presence wasn't enough to get them to turn their eye at me instead of each other.
3. You didn't policy lynch me or vig me. Which if I was not me, I would have done on the day that Dom got lynched. I really shouldn't be left around until end game. There are certain players that should be dealt with as though they are too dangerous as scum to leave alone even if they look civ and the meta here doesn't deal with us ruthlessly enough. I am not suggesting day 1 policy lynch but if the decision is between taking a wild stab in the dark that a complete lurker like Dom or Pennywise is bad or taking a shot at Jay or myself, we are the better lynch every time. Civs have and will continue to win many games when us forceful types are removed in the early game, but if you leave us alive until the late game and we are Mafia it's foolishness.
4. Nobody ever really tried to read DDL until it was too late and when they did (Nova), we just silenced him on the critical day.
5. Too many civs disappeared entirely. Jay was right that the game was over days ago.

Every silence was actually thought through and made sense in the context of the day. Believing it to be the results of a random firing helped us immensely. I would not use that game mechanic in the future because it's really quite a nice way for scum to wifom the fuck out of useless night actions.

As for the sig kill. I chose to kill sig because I think he is a good player. He reads the game with his instinct rather than cold calculations and I cannot account for that. I would choose to go up against Jay over sig every time. Sig is a dangerous vig and he tinfoils at the drop of a hat. He makes unpredictable reads that are very often accurate. He gets mislynched so often because he plays the civ game with a reckless abandon that I think makes him a great civ. He was the most likely player in this game to remove me personally from it so he died.

Lol I'm such an asshole.

I've played many games with Falcon. I am generally a good reader of Falcon as per his comment that you quoted.

He didn't contribute much at all. He is capable of some good shit but very rarely does much as either alignment these days. He usually just can be read by whether he's making shit up or actually believes what he's saying lol.

https://mafiathesyndicate.com/viewtopic.php?t=1584

This is probs my favourite scum win but it wasn't a solo endgame. We mostly swept. I did powerwolf to a degree where I was largely able to snow Jay though which is the real reason I'm posting this.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... fferent%21

This was a hydra game in which Falcon and I were mafia against a very formidable set of town hydras. I made all but maybe a dozen of the posts.

This is the only recent example of me playing the wolf alignment the way that you describe.

Aight well I don't want any hammers til I hear in depth from Wilgy and Falcon.

and the conclusion is?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:49 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:47 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:43 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:42 am No you bury the wolf here you don't take the fact that there are two other viable names and use it as a basis for trying to get yourself out of the POE. Bad Achro.
Sorry that I don't know which one of 'did nothing' and 'did nothing but also has theater' is the obvious wolf let me go back to mafia school with Mac who will teach me the expert reads. Neither has any meaningful Sabi interaction in their favor. I like my vote because wilgy defended me a little today and did theater but it ain't much.

That sorry was sarcastic to be clear x)
I already pointed out how you and Sabi both manipulated Falcon into voting Seanzie/Lucy. That's heaps in his favour.

I just can't reconcile you as town when you react to a request to bury the wolf with this trash. Like you don't have any skill or tactics to interrogate and figure it out from this point forward. They are here. Talk to them. Figure out which one is the wolf. Why do I need to tell you how to be town?
There's nothing to bury. There's almost nothing there. It's PoE. You and Porscha are great. They aren't. Not every game is about burying the wolf sometimes its about finding the town, and I found the two town I need to find and honestly wilgy is probably fine too.

Sorry this isn't exciting.

Earlier in this phase you were convinced enough in their towniness you were willing to vote me over both of them. I managed to solve my way out of it. Can't you just... do the same for me? Expose the wolf by elevating the standard.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:47 am I am sick of torturing myself over an online game, tbh.

Last game proved no matter how hard I town tell it just ain't gonna matter homie. People won't read and people will lose the game.

Show me some games where I show out and do my best and I am not smacked down and voted for it and I might show you that effort again, but right now I am on a losing streak of effort mattering so this is what you got. Sorry I'm a disappointment, I'm used to it.

I am here. I am reading. I don't want to lose the game.

I am sure that there are many games where you have shown out and done your best and not got smacked down for it. You went years without being mischopped as town.

Your losing streak of effort not mattering is literally one game as far as I am aware.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:44 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:43 am If you are way more unpartnered than either of them, demonstrate such by being the town that I have come to admire not this listless shadow of achromatic I am scarcely tolerating.
Look man, I am not your fucking puppet alright. How about you learn to play the game and stop relying on me to put on a show for you. If you can't see it, that's on you, don't blame others for your failure.

What horseshit lol.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:43 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:42 am No you bury the wolf here you don't take the fact that there are two other viable names and use it as a basis for trying to get yourself out of the POE. Bad Achro.
Sorry that I don't know which one of 'did nothing' and 'did nothing but also has theater' is the obvious wolf let me go back to mafia school with Mac who will teach me the expert reads. Neither has any meaningful Sabi interaction in their favor. I like my vote because wilgy defended me a little today and did theater but it ain't much.

That sorry was sarcastic to be clear x)

I already pointed out how you and Sabi both manipulated Falcon into voting Seanzie/Lucy. That's heaps in his favour.

I just can't reconcile you as town when you react to a request to bury the wolf with this trash. Like you don't have any skill or tactics to interrogate and figure it out from this point forward. They are here. Talk to them. Figure out which one is the wolf. Why do I need to tell you how to be town?

If you are way more unpartnered than either of them, demonstrate such by being the town that I have come to admire not this listless shadow of achromatic I am scarcely tolerating.

No you bury the wolf here you don't take the fact that there are two other viable names and use it as a basis for trying to get yourself out of the POE. Bad Achro.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:46 pm I have read the reasons as to why the Achro voters are voting Achro.

I vibes with Falcon the most.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:22 am Acrho is giving me vibes, and they ain't towny kind

[VOTE: Acrho] aubergine

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:30 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:29 am Wilgy better not flake this day i swear to god lol.
Is Wilgy really good enough to do that post hammer stuff? You said he was earlier but like, really?

viewtopic.php?t=2022

Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:59 am achro
wilgy/falcon
mac

You can't separate Wilgy and Falcon?

Wilgy better not flake this day i swear to god lol.

I often consider making periodic vote tally updates just to create benchmarks but I always forget lol.

Nah. Just the final daily VC which is in the host post at the start of the game. That's all I pulled up earlier.

All I am saying is that rolling over and agreeing with half of the things I'm saying to bury you isn't really playing to your wincon and doesn't line up with the Achro you claim to be lol.

@Achromatic what is your theory as to why Sabi so heavily contributed to getting the votes off of Wilgy and onto Lucy/Seanzie.

Persistently just being like "yeah, heh I did do that wolfy thing" rather than explaining it from the town mindset is not really doing you much good bro lol. If this is town you's way of trying to come across reasonable, I'd rather you not haha.

I think that you and Falcon have both arrived at the spiderman doppleganger gif outcome probably indicates that it is one of you though.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:31 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:29 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:25 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:24 am perhaps that doesn't happen, but what if sabi just gives up on the game and without your condoning, as her wolf partner, goes ahead with the hammer
I like to think I would be able to calm them down especially since I was actively around but I don't know them well enough to know if I could. I just don't even want it speculated that I would game throw it makes me sad.
Achro, a wolf self voting in those circumstances isn't game throwing. It is done to avoid antispew. Sabi was dead to rights by the time they made the decision to self hammer.
I must be a dumbass then because after they did that I thought I made a mistake lol
Because everyone presumed Sabi was town and had self hammered out of ate when the reality is Sabi was mafia and self hammered to give their partner a better chance to win the game due to the fact that Sabi's spew wasn't going too well.
Well yeah that's why wilgy is obv town. My meager oops is nothing in comparison to his flaming wall of rage lol x)

My only problem with that perspective is that having had years of experience with Wilgy, he is actually underestimated vastly by the current members of this community and taking advantage of that moment to get some fake ate anti spew in is entirely within his mafia range. It's wifom and angleshooting anyway so I'd rather read him on play. Which... frankly is also leading me to townread him.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:30 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:28 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 am Typically my biggest goal as a wolf is to have fun. I get the sense that sabi doesn't like being suspected. This is my own fanfiction now but I would probably try to avoid putting pressure on them and if we lose we lose and it was all in good fun. Like I said though this is just me waxing poetic about philosophy.
"Sabi seems to be trying their best".

You mean like that?
While my vote was on them most of the day to try to prod lucy

You and your imaginary gotchas x) it's endearing

Your vote was on them but you were pressuring someone else not Sabi. And when the whips were cracking your vote was alongside Sabi's on two town.

I'm still not hammering you or recommending this day end early. We have ample time with which to work. You have time to find the wolf if you are not it.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:25 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:24 am perhaps that doesn't happen, but what if sabi just gives up on the game and without your condoning, as her wolf partner, goes ahead with the hammer
I like to think I would be able to calm them down especially since I was actively around but I don't know them well enough to know if I could. I just don't even want it speculated that I would game throw it makes me sad.
Achro, a wolf self voting in those circumstances isn't game throwing. It is done to avoid antispew. Sabi was dead to rights by the time they made the decision to self hammer.
I must be a dumbass then because after they did that I thought I made a mistake lol

Because everyone presumed Sabi was town and had self hammered out of ate when the reality is Sabi was mafia and self hammered to give their partner a better chance to win the game due to the fact that Sabi's spew wasn't going too well.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:27 am Typically my biggest goal as a wolf is to have fun. I get the sense that sabi doesn't like being suspected. This is my own fanfiction now but I would probably try to avoid putting pressure on them and if we lose we lose and it was all in good fun. Like I said though this is just me waxing poetic about philosophy.

"Sabi seems to be trying their best".

You mean like that?

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:25 am
Porscha wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:24 am perhaps that doesn't happen, but what if sabi just gives up on the game and without your condoning, as her wolf partner, goes ahead with the hammer
I like to think I would be able to calm them down especially since I was actively around but I don't know them well enough to know if I could. I just don't even want it speculated that I would game throw it makes me sad.

Achro, a wolf self voting in those circumstances isn't game throwing. It is done to avoid antispew. Sabi was dead to rights by the time they made the decision to self hammer.

@Porscha can you order your reads please?

@DrWilgy can you plz catch up.

Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:21 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:19 am
Achromatic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 22, 2022 3:14 am Vote me if you like but please don't accuse me of game throwing. Ty
Sabi opened day 2 getting voted by Porscha. Pushed by me. Pushed by Axe. All before you showed up. They fumbled enough for it to be easy for me to see them just asking you to bus them upon arrival, which frankly when you did I got the impression that you were. And then self hammering to stop spewing more townies is not a misplay or a throw. I'm not accusing you of game throwing. Make better defenses than that.

It actually quite looks like they were waiting for you to show up to vote them to self hammer.
Then vote me. It's chill. I would never condone a self hammer strategy it is Bush league but you don't know me that well. It's chill.

I can't defend against fanfiction because you don't know better. I know that didn't happen but that's not really the point.

Reducing arguments and constant strawmanning doesn't do much for me Achro. I'm a reasonable person, and I made a lot more solvent arguments to find you as mafia than you are giving me credit for by reducing it down to fanfiction. So if you are town and you do die, it's on you for not trying harder to help me see reason.

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