The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:05 am Idk why GMan is even in the POE since he's obviously town but whatever.

We were ALL wrong at different times anyway. I town read G-Man and Wilgy and switched back and forth. They might have low posted a bit but they both know the fuck how to project town.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:04 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 6:54 am In fact, I think we should be giving the gun within [wilgy/gman/boo/jack/mac] with clear instructions that if they don’t shoot within that group tonight they will themselves get shot tomorrow night.

I think forcing the POE to shoot within themselves is optimal rn?

This is the way.

You had the solve here if it was just allowed to happen tbh. Johann ended up getting the gun because Johann came in screaming about how this was a bad idea. So let's just blame Johann and move on with our lives.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:35 pm It’s also frustrating on a personal level because I did my job then got suspected for...doing my job.

You didn't get suspected for shooting Dragomir. Least not by me. I just had to unclear you because of the corner I'd been backed into.

The POE was literally me and Jack at one point. We were both town, and I was town reading him. You were town reading the two people that I wanted to lynch. In that situation it's very hard for me to assume you're town given didn't have many viable choices for who to push as a suspect because I was town reading Johann, Jack, FG and Hyena. You'd have been an easy clear if you simply didn't try to block suspicion on Boo or Wilgy.

My POE at that point was Boo, Wilgy, Nanook, G-Man. I thought the scum team was Boo/Wilgy. I made some cases briefly about a Nanook scum world, but if I had a gun to my head I would have shot Boo and Wilgy first. So I'm not saying i was right at all. But I don't feel bad about suspecting you. It's a side effect of the choices you make as town to play the way that you do that you'll get townies suspecting you. Probs the biggest meta indicator of Nanook being town is Nanook is getting suspected for being Nanook tbh.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:31 pm I don’t blame FG for shooting me tbh, I told her i wouldn’t hold it against her and I meant it.

I do blame you and jack and johann for incredibly bad and, at least for you and jack, very premature pushes on me. You always have to give it a night to see if I get poisoned first or not

You say "you blame us" but you literally are the primary catalyst for the POE not having scum in it on the day that I got shot by Johann. You wanted to take Wilgy and Boo out and FG wanted to take G-Man out to the point where neither were being considered as shots by Johann whatsoever. Johann was always shooting town that night because his choices was town/town, a choice that you made for him.

This whole scenario makes me and Jack, who were literally realising that we were both town at the same time, have a very short list of candidates to suspect. Our options there are to either assume you're scum driving mislynches on us, or to assume you are wrong. We both tried to get out of you what you based your reads on so we could figure out if you were wrong, but you just gave us the Nanook treatment.

At any rate, take all the context away you want. But my bad push on you, is fine. I was wrong. So were you for most of the game. We both suck.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:21 pm Damn it there are no shit players in this game I'm just gonna shoot Wilgy for not playing.

Why didn't you just DO THIS MACDOUGALL U SHIT CUNT

I should have just shot Wilgy night 1. I knew specifically it was the right shot at the time.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:24 pm Like obviously my play deteriorated after I let myself get dragged into frustration with being scumread, that’s fair and on me, I shouldn’t have let myself get distracted from finding the correct solve. I couldn’t imagine in the moment how every push on me came from a townie, but I’ve seen that kind of thing before so I should’ve known better.

I maintain that any push on me on D3 was stupid and misguided, you never tinfoil me until you have a chance to see if I get poisoned or not

I agree that your kill was sub-optimal but given I killed nutella on night 1 on a whim after having my kill submitted on Jack for 12 hours I certainly can't criticise FG for tinfoiling. When I died and discovered it was Wilgy/G-man I was surprised so I can't say that I was gonna just come into the thread and solve the game lol.

Duskfall has a good point because in this particular game the optimal path to take is to just do what a normal vig should do every time, just shoot into the POE, kill the wolfiest looking players. And if we did that here we'd have won the game.

More learning for the learning god.

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:21 pm Wilgy and G-Man didn't even really slank that much. They just sort of hung back and let the town eat itself. As viable a strategy as any to win, but certainly a great way to make salty townies in endgame lol.

Nah, I'm not salty. Both G-Man and Wilgy had me pocketed at certain points in the game. It was always looking at, like, Boo and Jack after Drago got shot.

I'm salty but not at anyone in particular. I am just salty at myself that I contributed to letting them win when I specifically know better than to leave people playing that style of game alive for so long.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:20 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:18 pm Nanook was considered because Nanook himself insisted that the actual final two wolves had to be taken out of the POE "because". He put himself in everyone elses POE lol.

Incorrect, I said wilgy and boo were out of the POE temporarily so that we couldn’t sleep walk into a boo shot and people had to actually make pushes.


But sure, I’m sure I’m entirely to blame for getting incorrectly SR immediately after I shot scum. That makes sense.

I didn't say you were entirely to blame. I explained why you became considered. Don't explode at me because you can't read posts properly lol.

Wilgy and G-Man didn't even really slank that much. They just sort of hung back and let the town eat itself. As viable a strategy as any to win, but certainly a great way to make salty townies in endgame lol.

Nanook was considered because Nanook himself insisted that the actual final two wolves had to be taken out of the POE "because". He put himself in everyone elses POE lol.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:15 pm Hate to say it boys but town really had to put in a shift to lose this one

Why in the world was Nanook ever considered lmao?

I guess you just should have been better at solving the game all on your own and insulting people into listening to your cases. I think it's fairly clearly all your fault.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:52 am @DrWilgy @G-Man give me some content so I can solve your slots early please. None of this lurky shit.

I would like a rerand, I feel like we'd be better at it after the experience. It was a difficult game to figure out tactically.

Good luck team.

Nanook apparently somehow thinks I am scum now after reading me correctly as town all game on tone to the point where he a) welcomed me to the towncore off my first post, b) accepted my derp clear until he just didn't anymore, provided no explanation for why I am scum aside from "POE" and is getting no suspicion because he shot Dragomir.

In my experience when townies have pet town reads that get stuck in the POE they fight against their inclusion. Much like Nanook has been for his teammates as opposed to me.

Same kinda

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 19, 2020 6:24 pm Pretty wild that I went to made a post 4 hours before bed and wake up to two Jack prods.

I seem to have had a stroke.

Wait actually it was 10 hours before bed.

Pretty wild that I went to made a post 4 hours before bed and wake up to two Jack prods.

Eh Johann you can shoot me, shoot Boo, shoot whoever I've summoned about as much energy as I have to try to project town and it's mostly fallen on deaf ears so meh.

Seems like Jack and Mac are the easy pushes from this angle.

LOL

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:07 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 10:01 pm RIP Sloonei.

methinks we need to do some work.

You and I did a lot of work mixing shit up today (stop trying to buddy me lol) and Sloonei did a lot of the type of work I don’t like to do.

Fmpov, it’s probably Wilgy/Boo and Nanook and you dying clears me or at least lets me die happy after being pocketed twice and being put on a winning path in spite of myself.

Since Johann is shooting in you/Boo, sounds like you need to do some work.

I need to buddy you because everyone else hates me except FG and I need allies lol.

RIP Sloonei.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] methinks we need to do some work.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:59 pm boo is the heavier tinfoil suspect of those three. I read him as town, but there's enough of an argument to the contrary that he's on my shortlist.

Boo is lock wolf from my vantage point. I know you are thinking you are seeing my best wolf game or whatever but this is not that. I am not teammates with Boo and nor do I think Jack is. Therefore I would implore you to work around your beliefs as best you can and help us find Boo's partner before you're gone. Please?

Linki: Oh damn I didn't realise day was ending this fast.

FMPOV Jack is nearly cleared. He's mind melding too much with me. He'd have to be a genius wolf to be able to fixate his mindset into the necessary town one to emulate all of my perspectives the way he is.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:56 pm "Nanook has bussed before, therefore he is bussing now" is not a compelling argument.

Not is "Nanook killed Dragomir therefore he's scum". Neither are compelling arguments. The motive to kill Dragomir is abundantly clear by virtue of what you are doing right now.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:55 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:54 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:43 pm Mac told me I should know better than to town read nutella on Day 1.

Jack is telling me I should know better than to town read Nanook on Day 3.

False dichotomy. You're feeling too much pressure to justify your opinions. You're confirmed town you have the freedom to explore all angles here properly. You don't need to spend any time at all justifying your opinions, just entertain when they are objected to and look at new angles until you find the right one because you haven't yet I assure you.

This isn't a dichotomy. I'm not saying this to link the two of you together. I'm just observing that I've been told twice that my reads shouldn't be what they are. I was right in the first instance. This post is pure salt, not an accusation.

Just because you were right the first time doesn't mean you are right the second time.

Besides, you might be right about Nanook. The only thing I know for certain is you are wrong about me. If you can find town me you will have a much clearer view of the truth of the game.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:54 pm What has nanook done that is super scummy?
bearing in mind that this is nanook we're talking about.

Nanook has produced no evidence for any of his reads. He has simply made them. He's made snap decisions to veto kills. He kills discussions and refuses to elaborate on why. You can read his ISO for yourself and see. I appreciate that is Nanook's MO generally but frankly I'm never going to let any player play like that without needling the shit out of them because it's too frustrating.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:43 pm Mac told me I should know better than to town read nutella on Day 1.

Jack is telling me I should know better than to town read Nanook on Day 3.

False dichotomy. You're feeling too much pressure to justify your opinions. You're confirmed town you have the freedom to explore all angles here properly. You don't need to spend any time at all justifying your opinions, just entertain when they are objected to and look at new angles until you find the right one because you haven't yet I assure you.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:23 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:10 pm I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

does anyone disapprove of this line of thinking?

Aside from shooting Dragomir, Nanook has been super scummy. If we just go "derp he shot a wolf let's never entertain him being scummy again" then we deserve to lose every game to a basic bus. Nanook needs to still actually be townie outside of his shot to get cleared.

When I say shouldn't be there I mean shouldn't be there because they should be poisoned if that wasn't clear. If like I'm there it's clearly because I'm the bait.

So here's our path to victory.

You gotta just get Boo the fuck out. He's a wolf.

The other one is gonna get to lylo.

At lylo you just gotta shoot the person who shouldn't be there. I think it'll be Nook.

If we get to F4, don't use the gun, make them clear someone with the poison.

Easy as.

I'll probs get there too because I ain't about to be poisoned and frankly I'm too good at insisting people do what I say to get shot.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:10 pm It's currently 8 vs 2, but I'm essentially already dead so it's really 7 vs 2. I believe that gives town a total of 2 mis-shots. A 4-person POE should solve the game.

I am comfortable removing nanook and johann from the POE outright. funnygurl and hyena are also town reads, but I'm open to arguments against them.

If we're comfortable taking those four out of the pool, though, then we just need to clear one of the following: G-man, wilgy, boo, mac, jack.

When I placed a doofus vote on wilgy Day 1, Drago came down hard on me. I'm not sure that happens if Wilgy is his partner.

Sounds like Mac needs to get himself out of the fucking POE then.

Let me try some superliminal messaging.

HEY YOU FUCKS. I AM TOWN. LOOK AT MY GIGANTIC TOWNIE BULGE. IT'S ENORMOUS AND TOWN SHAPED. MUCH LIKE YOURS FELLOW TOWNS. HEY CAN YOU TOWN READ ME PLEASE. I NEED TO NOT BE IN THE POE BECAUSE I AM TOWN AND ME BEING IN IT IS SPECIFICALLY GOING TO LOSE US THE GAME OR AT LEAST LIKE PARTIALLY CONTRIBUTE AND I DON'T NEED THAT SHIT ON MY CONSCIENCE.

G-Man wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:04 pm

boo wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 11:23 am @G-Man Jack and Mac are running a divide and conquer gambit. It's playing off of Johann's total distrust of me, your and Wilgy's general not keeping up, FGs regularly going all over the place as she tries to make up her mind, and my ability to generally alienate other town. I'm not really sure how they're fitting in Hyena.

If you trust your gut, (currently) vote for me, along with me and Nanook. We may need to shift the vote over to FG later in the day, bit that's where things currently stand.

Qué? Divide and conquer requires a little more tinfoil than I have in my pantry at the moment. That’s an awful lot of work for two baddies to engage in. Unless they’re desperate after being caught off guard by Dragomir’s death, why go to all that effort. It seems like working harder, not smarter.

Wow G-man. Are you the hero we've been waiting for?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:01 pm Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

At least one of Boo and Wilgy. Probably paired with the other, Mac or Nanook.

Imo, everyone else is damn near cleared.

Only a town would have Nanook in their POE in your seat, I know this because I do too. A wolf would not bother even sniffing there if Nanook was town.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:01 pm Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

who's bad?

This is my line. You're using it well though fair play.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 9:01 pm Jack whenever he’s suspected by lots of people: Pff. I can’t be scum because I obviously have no partners.

Consistent response: Oh, we’re hunting for a single wolf even though there are two.

I was rolling around in bed last night and arrived at a point where I think you are town somehow even though by POE it shouldn't be plausible so if that were to be true then the POE is at least partially bunk. I am genuinely lockscum on Boo, but whether I'm right or wrong about that I feel like there is a wolf that isn't getting any heat really at all. If so, who the fuck is it? If you take me out of your POE who comes into view for you?

Fair play to you if you're a wolf but you've made some posts that helped me see your townie mind flickering.

I do appreciate you actually giving me something to defend against though. In the main I've mostly been just forced to try to project town as much as I could in the face of vague negative dispersions.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:59 pm it is true that i'm perfect, i won't argue their.

Please tell me that this was unintended.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:52 pm Sounds like you just want to look at boo.

Fringe is a good show.

Firmly in my favourite all time list. Probably largely because it somehow against all odds completed a full run.

I humoured for a moment shooting Nanook. I didn't feel like a night 1 shot on Wilgy or G-Man would go down well because I'd talked myself up as being this amazing D1 player and I figured if I shot them and they flipped town that I'd get mollywhopped for being a gigantic bitch. So I just shot Nutella.

Do I regret it? No not really. Shooting Nutella is funny.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:54 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:49 pm Those were my explanations for not trusting her myself. They were not my arguments for why she shouldn't have the gun. You even quoted where I said that she wasn't getting the gun because nobody else trusts her. On day 1 I flip flopped on my Nutella read. I do that. In every game. That we play in. Ffs.

This is not my issue. My issue is that you argued against trusting nutella because it was too early to determine whether or not she was town, but it was evidently not too early to shoot her on suspicion of being mafia. The former implies we require more time to sort her out. The latter is a booming statement that we don't.

This is really you projecting your own capacity to be perfect onto someone who is notably imperfect Sloonei.

I was tinfoiling Nutella demonstrably a lot. I had the role PM on Jack submitted. Jack came out and was all "do it bitch" this and "you'll look like a fool" that" and I panicked and shot the person I was tinfoiling.

There's a reason for that. Nobody was an obvious Mafioso. Dragomir was buddying me (as I demonstrated when I said I would need convincing cuz he armed me), I had a town read on Boo at the time. I felt strong town pings from everyone except you and Nutella, who outside of Jack were the only two people I really suspected at the time and more people wanted Nutella shot than wanted you shot, so I just switched to her then saw the flip and died inside.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:51 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:48 pm I am suspected literally for the below reasons:

1. Jack talked me out of shooting him at the last minute with ATE.

Literally no.
2. Nutella provoked me a lot and I was tinfoiling the shit out of her and half the game wanted her shot so I changed my Jack shot to her instead without thinking on it much.

You shot nutella after saying it was too early to town read.

3. Dragomir (and probably the scum team more generally) didn't want Duskfall to have the gun and gave it to me instead and now I look guilty through Dragomir interactions.

Yeah.

I have no argument against the logic of the case frankly. I look bad. If I get shot so be it. But ONCE I DO if someone ANYONE doesn't re-read my posts through the lens of them being sincere I will be very upset.

I will endorse this. If Mac gets shot and flips town, please look at boo.
If mac gets shot and flips mafia, also look at boo. I wouldn't put it past him to bus his teammate hard if he think he's going down.
[/quote]

I shot nutella. I did that. I suck. Fuck me. I hated myself for it. I ran away from the game ashamed of myself. Fucks sake how can you not see that?

Sounds like you just want to look at boo.

FG if you have an actual good reason to town read me to the degree you are I would love for you to play that trump card before I get 86ed.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:46 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:43 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 8:40 pm I looked at Mac's recent posts to see where the smoking gun that points to boo is. I didn't find it. boo just kind of abruptly became the top suspect today.

I also still don't feel like mac has even come close to addressing my early concern about him:

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 11:49 pm I also have genuine concerns about Mac's progression on nutella:

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:45 pm It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:11 pm Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:34 pm Sloonei nutella isn't getting the gun because we're in a game with a lot of non regs and most of them don't trust and are triggered by her usual behaviours, just shouting about it isn't going to help. You had a chance to give me the gun because I had FG, Hyena, Dragomir etc. but frankly you blew it. Not me, you. You did this. And should be sad and ashamed of yourself.

He made all three of these posts to justify not letting her have the gun. She's too good of a player to have a read on this early, he insists. We can't trust her with the gun when it's entirely possible that he scum game is just a perfect reflection of her town game at this stage!

And that he decides to shoot that very same player on Night 1.

He repeatedly downplayed my calls for nutella to get the gun because she's too good of a player for anyone to have a clear sense of her alignment at that stage of the game. But then he goes ahead and shoots her anyway.

The nutella suspicion (in general) never made sense to me, and I'm beginning to think it was amplified by an opportunistic scum team.

Yeah and what were the names of the players that were pushing me to shoot Nutella?

I didn't say Nutella wasn't getting the gun because she's too good of a player you lightweight. I said she wasn't getting the gun because the players in this game that aren't used to her were triggered by her usual behaviour and she wasn't trusted enough so going that way was a waste of time trying to go that way. Notwithstanding that several people seemed to want her dead.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:46 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 8:45 pm It is quite silly that anyone can look at nutella and not see an obvious civilian.

Nutella is too good of a player for this read and you know it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:13 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 9:11 pm Nutella should still be the one we give the gun to, fwiw.

Nutella is incapable of projecting town strong enough day one for me to clear her. Shes too capable of her town range when wolf.

In time that changes. She makes herself obvious with results. Like you.

Also I destroyed Boo to a degree few have ever been destroyed. You're being a tunneling lightweight. Get out of the tunnel lightweight.

[citation needed]

Those were my explanations for not trusting her myself. They were not my arguments for why she shouldn't have the gun. You even quoted where I said that she wasn't getting the gun because nobody else trusts her. On day 1 I flip flopped on my Nutella read. I do that. In every game. That we play in. Ffs.

I am suspected literally for the below reasons:

1. Jack talked me out of shooting him at the last minute with ATE.
2. Nutella provoked me a lot and I was tinfoiling the shit out of her and half the game wanted her shot so I changed my Jack shot to her instead without thinking on it much.
3. Dragomir (and probably the scum team more generally) didn't want Duskfall to have the gun and gave it to me instead and now I look guilty through Dragomir interactions.

I have no argument against the logic of the case frankly. I look bad. If I get shot so be it. But ONCE I DO if someone ANYONE doesn't re-read my posts through the lens of them being sincere I will be very upset.