The Syndicate

Well done fam.

thank you for releasing me from this madness

In many ways I think that not nailing scum earlier in this type of format (small games small teams) actually ends up making it easier to win because you can solve the entire team at the same time. It's a format that I intend to bus/distance like crazy in future.

If I was scum and Mongoose is a civ I do exactly what I did. If she is scum and Nova is a civ I most definitely push for Nova today and win today. I would have backed myself to have been able to convince everyone to lynch you, even Sloonei who at some stage was tinfoiling you. The only way what I've done is on scum meta is if the Goose is a civ.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:18 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:49 pm I'm in the weeds here. Sloonei is being all civvy and shit and Nova is still trolling me. I've felt kinda ok about Mongoose all game and both Goose and Llama haven't attacked me so I haven't really shined a light there ... Llama was M Plus?
This is another that is a little bit weird.

I did feel kinda ok about Mongoose all game. All game being "the span of the game that I can remember".

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:09 pm That original “sus” read came on Night 1. Then all of Day 2 happened and he apparently progressed to a town read, then a lock town read. I don’t find it unbelievable progression, but maybe @MacDougall can explain it for us anyway.

It was in the past. I don't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:08 pm @novaselinenever @thellama73 @MacDougall @juliets @Mongoose could you share your strongest reason to A) town read and B) scum read each person remaining in your POE?
Sloonei: Captain Town. I'm not going to bother with a scum read. If you are mafia, I am going to be so pissed haha.

Mac: It's been in both the other games I've played (albeit very briefly) lately. It seems very different here. Get a whiff of those civ pheromones. On the other side, it's smart and wiley enough to pull off such a charade. I don't think that's likely here though.

Llama: He's been active like Sloonei, trying to sort through the nonsense to the kernel of what's going on. Comes in guns blazing, but do you really expect anything different? I think I have towncleared Llama once in a game (without using an info-gathering power, I mean). Never completely trustworthy.

Juliets: I was pretty sold on her from that top of p.4 frustrated civ read. It hasn't wavered since then.

Nova: Now this guy is a clever cat. He has walked the line between being Mr. Helpful (appreciated) and starting this antagonist brawls with Mac and then Llama that do not accomplish anything; rather they derail discussion when other folks are pulling down some serious ISOs (Juliets, SLoonei, and even Llama). I'm not saying he hasn't put in hard work too, he has, but there's this rogue element to Nova that I just don't trust. He knows how to whisper in the ear of King of Gondor and damn if he didn't get Sloonei to stand up (I think I'm mixing up the LOTR mythology here a little bit, but just go with it) and take up swords. But instead of it being against the eye of Sauron, he is now going after this little hobbit who just wants some tea and cake but is instead fighting for her life.

Fight Wormtongue, Save the Hobbit

So you are going for the Llama/Nova impossible union?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:28 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:21 am That has lots of words so it must be right. Consider me convinced.
In keeping with the Paddy's Pub tradition: whoever yells the loudest is in charge.

You continue to make coercive arguments Sloonei. I like your hustle.

That has lots of words so it must be right. Consider me convinced.

Sloonei you promised me a thing

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:34 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:29 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:19 pm If Llama is Mafia and in win now mode then his teammate is someone else. If I am wrong it doesn't matter anyway because if Mongoose gets lynched today and Llama is the other Mafia he's going to lose no matter which way the rest of the game pans out. Llama is too smart to have got trapped this way imo.
Well, he is trapped. Him and Mongoose prodding my case and keeping me at neutral had a side effect of buddying you. Juliets is mod-confirmed. He can't justify a scum read on Sloonei even though he tried to throw some shade by saying that his EoD behavior were bad but not a "slight" to his overall play lol.

I'm his only other scum read, and I'm being viewed better than Mongoose by most of the thread. He ain't got the pull to push the lynch on me so what other option is there except buss Mongoose and paint a connection with his other scum read, me?
His other option (and especially if he and Mongoose were together) would have been for one or both of them to just change their read on me to Mafia. You and Sloonei had it in for me out of the gate. If Llama is Mafia and wanted to win today he could have helped you and Sloonei lynch me. Juliets has enough doubt to not leap to my defence.
That ain't optimal play imo. It'd leave him exposed 'cause it wouldn't make any sense as a read change, and I don't think he believes he can't get you lynched especially with the way Sloonei and I cooled on you and developped a Llama/Mongoose pairing.

In the world where Llama and Mongoose are Mafia, and what you are saying does make sense, why the hell didn't he turn on me before it was too late then?

That was easy. Damn I'm good.

Yeah okay Mongoose and Llama it is.

Nova isn't Mafia. He's trying to understand the game too much.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:19 pm If Llama is Mafia and in win now mode then his teammate is someone else. If I am wrong it doesn't matter anyway because if Mongoose gets lynched today and Llama is the other Mafia he's going to lose no matter which way the rest of the game pans out. Llama is too smart to have got trapped this way imo.
Well, he is trapped. Him and Mongoose prodding my case and keeping me at neutral had a side effect of buddying you. Juliets is mod-confirmed. He can't justify a scum read on Sloonei even though he tried to throw some shade by saying that his EoD behavior were bad but not a "slight" to his overall play lol.

I'm his only other scum read, and I'm being viewed better than Mongoose by most of the thread. He ain't got the pull to push the lynch on me so what other option is there except buss Mongoose and paint a connection with his other scum read, me?

His other option (and especially if he and Mongoose were together) would have been for one or both of them to just change their read on me to Mafia. You and Sloonei had it in for me out of the gate. If Llama is Mafia and wanted to win today he could have helped you and Sloonei lynch me. Juliets has enough doubt to not leap to my defence.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:23 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:16 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:13 pm Why exactly is Mongoose not compatible with Llama?
He intends to lynch her. Lynching his teammate today is not advised. The Mafia play today to win today.
No.

100/100 the Mafia play today to win today. It is much easier to win now than later no matter what. The fact that we are even here is an indication that the Mafia have been working as a team because if they weren't one would have been psuedo bussed by now. If they are working as a team they are POE clamped right now. They need to win today. Therefore Llama can't lynch his teammate if he is Mafia. He intends to lynch Mongoose.

What am I missing?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:21 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:18 pm If he is her teammate and votes to lynch her today he is forced to kill Juliets. Then we will invariably vote no lynch. He kills who? Sloonei? If he kills Sloonei it gives the game away because I know that you wouldn't kill Sloonei in that scenario. He kills me? That fucks him up too. Sloonei and you take him out? He kills, you? Sloonei and I take him out.

If Llama is Mafia Mongoose isn't his teammate. Mongoose seems to be Mafia. Ergo Llama is not.
Why have you listed llama and mongoose as incompatible? I think they are extremely compatible.

Do you even linki?

Just play a thought experiment and put yourself in a universe where it's absolutely evident that Mongoose and Llama are not teammates.

Who becomes the most likely partner for both?

If Llama is Mafia and in win now mode then his teammate is someone else. If I am wrong it doesn't matter anyway because if Mongoose gets lynched today and Llama is the other Mafia he's going to lose no matter which way the rest of the game pans out. Llama is too smart to have got trapped this way imo.

If he is her teammate and votes to lynch her today he is forced to kill Juliets. Then we will invariably vote no lynch. He kills who? Sloonei? If he kills Sloonei it gives the game away because I know that you wouldn't kill Sloonei in that scenario. He kills me? That fucks him up too. Sloonei and you take him out? He kills, you? Sloonei and I take him out.

If Llama is Mafia Mongoose isn't his teammate. Mongoose seems to be Mafia. Ergo Llama is not.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:13 pm Why exactly is Mongoose not compatible with Llama?

He intends to lynch her. Lynching his teammate today is not advised. The Mafia play today to win today.

I'm comfortable that if I am in a three player lylo that I am going to make the right call this time. In fact I am not concerned about that at all right now. I was nowhere near as

We need to be absolutely one hundred percent certain about Mongoose. I can't see the situation changing, but we need to rule out that we've missed something that clears her.

Let's play a game.

Removing Juliets from the POE entirely here are all the possible team combinations.

Mongoose/Llama
Mongoose/Nova
Mongoose/Sloonei
Mongoose/Mac
Llama/Nova
Llama/Sloonei
Llama/Mac
Sloonei/Mac
Sloonei/Nova
Mac/Nova

I'll remove ones containing myself.

Mongoose/Nova
Mongoose/Sloonei tie Mongoose/Llama
Sloonei/Nova tie Llama/Sloonei
Llama/Nova

This is how I would order the team pairings in order of likelihood. Nova is incompatible with Llama but compatible with everyone else. Mongoose is compatible with everyone. Llama is incompatible with everyone except Moongoose but the way he has gone about his work today makes him close to incompatible with her too. I'd almost remove him from POE on account of this. In actuality I am more sure he is a civ than I am Sloonei.

I see no reality in which Mongoose is a civ though so we don't have to worry about that yet because the Mafia are going to be forced to herd thin and it'll work in our favour.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:51 pm Mongoose gets lynched -> Llama kills Juliets -> We no-lynch > Llama kills Sloonei > "tReE mAfIA, i FuCkInG kNoW iT", I get mislynched > Town loses

It's written in the stars.

On the off chance you're a civilian you'd better make some better arguments right now because you're right about what's about to go down if Llama and Mongoose is the team.

As it stands Llama's made a better case on you than you've made on him from where I sit and you're already starting with a disadvantage because I've been reading you Mafia all game.

For a start, drop the antagonism towards me entirely because it will not help your cause one iota.

I've been reading everything. Accusing me of not and accusing me of having my head up my ass is a pretty dumb way of stating your case.

You're talking as though them being Mafia is a foregone conclusion but you're keeping the Mac is mafia angle open with your answer to Sloonei's question. You're hedging your bets in case Mongoose is lynched because you'll just kill Juliets then Llama and you've pocketed Sloonei who will vote me over you at Lylo. That's the entire agenda.

Sloonei why are you voting Llama instead of Mongoose?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:38 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:35 pm
thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:00 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 pm Also, no offense taken at being called a liar
I'm done interacting with you. Your phoney moral high ground is easy now that you think your team is about to win.

Vote for me if you want the mafia to win.
I agree with your take the most.

I think Nova and Mongoose are the Mafia. I think that if Nova was a civilian he'd be voting for Mongoose today and not you given that you have shown that you're okay with Mongoose being lynched.

Tree Mafia again. They are going for the win today. One of them dying today (Mongoose) gives the town a lot more time and Nova will be cooked.

I think that's gameset imo.
I was voting Mongoose up, until I got called a liar

There is zero reason to lynch anybody but Mongoose. She's unanimous suspect of everybody. In this situation that means she's Mafia. I've seen it before. Tree Mafia. Been saying it all game.

The problem that Mongoose's teammate has, whether it's you or not, is that her dying today completely flips the percentages back to civ favour. So her teammate wants to win today.

Wh's Mongoose's teammate? I think it's you Nova. You blinked.

No lynch is only viable on the off chance that we're being bamboozled by Juliets. Otherwise it's just a death sentence for her. If she is Mafia she just shoots Sloonei (presuming it's not Juliets/Sloonei) in which case it's hardly any better.

Juliets isn't Mafia though. So no lynch makes no sense.

There isn't a single person who doesn't have Mongoose in their POE. Anyone pushing against Mongoose lynch today is either being irrational or her teammate. That's absolutely without question.

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:02 pm Everyone notice how Nova immediately moved his vote off his teammate once I voted.

linki: because he has smugly convinced a majority of the players that I am bad and that he is not.

If you're Mafia you're one of the best I've seen.

I'm sticking to my guns here.

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:00 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 pm Also, no offense taken at being called a liar
I'm done interacting with you. Your phoney moral high ground is easy now that you think your team is about to win.

Vote for me if you want the mafia to win.

I agree with your take the most.

I think Nova and Mongoose are the Mafia. I think that if Nova was a civilian he'd be voting for Mongoose today and not you given that you have shown that you're okay with Mongoose being lynched.

Tree Mafia again. They are going for the win today. One of them dying today (Mongoose) gives the town a lot more time and Nova will be cooked.

I think that's gameset imo.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:49 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:47 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm
thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?
Yes. Go read my ISO of Nova's interactions with Mongoose.
I did. It's good.
What about mine?
Your what?
ISOs of llama and mongoose

Haven't read them yet. I read his one when I was looking for confirmation of my suspicion of Nova and your one was an affront to my opinion so I chose to skim past it haha.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:51 pm I understand why, but I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned no lynch with us being at MyLo.

Well Epi said we should never do anything other than that

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:43 pm My POE is comfortably at Mongoose/Nova/Llama, and nova is comfortably a town read.

What's the status of all dem other POEs, folks?

Sloonei/Nova/Mongoose/Llama lol

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:37 pm I read nova as town. It's not that I can't see the possibility of him being civilian, it's that we're at 4 vs 2 situation right now and for the duration of this game he's struck me as a civilian in tone and content, and I've not come across a single argument that has convinced me otherwise. I'm happy to continue talking about him because if he's fooling me, I would like to be able to see it. But so far I do not.
After Mac's response to the Day 2 lynch, I have extreme difficulty viewing him as mafia as well. Juliets is as close to confirmed town as a player can be.

I arrived at Mongoose/llama as a scum pairing before I had removed Mac from my POE, and all the while have been unable to argue for a scum nova. I just don't see it.

Does anybody suspect me to any serious degree at this stage?

I find that incredibly bizarre given my case is awesome.

Mongoose wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:26 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:10 pm I think llama and mongoose coordinated their moves yesterday. I think they deliberately tried to pocket Mac by puffing up his case on nova.

If I’m boiling it down to one issue that makes me think it’s llama/mongoose instead of llama/mac, that’s it.
Coordinating our moves makes me think of Llama and I being on a dance floor together, which seems rather unlikely.

In theory, the idea of Llama and I being on a baddie team (or any team) sounds quite twee, but here's how that dialogue would go of us trying to formulate a plan.

Me: Okay, I am going to say this. You back me up by saying this.

Him: Don't tell me what to do.

Me: You're being unreasonable.

Him: You're being unreasonable.

Me: Fine say whatever you want.

///

That dialogue above would also work if you swapped out the names.

Also, super soz I haven't been around today. I have felt super ratty and ended up sleeping most of the day or eating a lot of red meat.

This post divides the two sides of me. My cynical and angry side reads this is as the most strawman argument ever but then my sensitive vegan side reads it as genuine.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:24 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:10 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:32 pm >Wasted her 1-shot
>Almost got lynched
>Got Killed immediately

The town confirm plan's gotta be the scam of the year lol.
This is such basic bitch logic. If we didn't get her outed she'd be priority lynch candidate and one of the other major town voices would be dead. We are in suuuuuch a better situation than that. Basic ass motherfucker.
My counter point would be we could have just believed her ya know. But that's an actually very good point, I'm impressed Mac.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:25 pm

Why do you keep belittling me like you're some Mafia savant?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm
thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?
Yes. Go read my ISO of Nova's interactions with Mongoose.
I did. It's good.
What about mine?

Your what?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:10 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:05 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:02 pmNice.
Why is mac town now?
He ain't on my book, but he's the lighter red amongst my PoE. While I've been making fun of the plan he had, I'm having trouble seeing why a baddie mac would go through the effort of coming up with it. I also felt like our interactions after last night's flip were genuine, peeps laying it all down, going at it trying to solve the game. His reaction was all right when he got overwhelmed, so that's a plus. I'm disappointed though that he didn't come back to "destroy" us like he promised lol.

I spent the last two days doing a charity hackathon and then went to sleep and now I am at work. By the time I came back a lot of water had flowed under that bridge and I felt like me launching back into that same stuff without the context of the catch up (which I'm yet to complete) would be the height of idiocy.

Got shit to do brb

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm I think townfirming Luna does enough (given we have little else to go by) to clear luna, mongoose and juliets. It should clear me too.
Mac, why did you clear mongoose here?

I was stuck in a universe where "the plan" was the towniest thing ever and Mongoose was a passive contributor to the plan and you and Nova were active dissenters to "the plan".

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:56 pm Juliets is locked Town with Luna's flip, not like she wasn't before just with her presence and then claim. I'm having trouble seeing a world where Sloonei is bad.

So unless Nova is bamboozling us (and I was right all along ), I'm fairly certain Mongoose/Llama are the infamous duo.

FTFY

thellama73 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?
Yes. Go read my ISO of Nova's interactions with Mongoose.

I did. It's good.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:32 pm >Wasted her 1-shot
>Almost got lynched
>Got Killed immediately

The town confirm plan's gotta be the scam of the year lol.

This is such basic bitch logic. If we didn't get her outed she'd be priority lynch candidate and one of the other major town voices would be dead. We are in suuuuuch a better situation than that. Basic ass motherfucker.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:00 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?
She is according to Llama, her scum buddy.

So I'm not Mafia now? After all this.

Juliets are you at Llama/Goose now?

So is Mongoose buddying up to me and Nova buddying up to you Sloonei?

Or are you and Nova just 100% right about this and I'm barking up the wrong tree altogether re. Nova.

It's one of those things where Goose and Llama are both saying things I feel. If they have pocketed me it has been a success.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:49 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:45 pm Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?
I haven’t looked into nova’s compatibility with her, but Mongoose has been propping up your case against him all game

Has she? Why not vote there?

I'm in the weeds here. Sloonei is being all civvy and shit and Nova is still trolling me. I've felt kinda ok about Mongoose all game and both Goose and Llama haven't attacked me so I haven't really shined a light there ... Llama was M Plus?

Is Mongoose/Nova compatiblegh?

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