The Syndicate

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:04 am
Spoiler: show
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:35 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:24 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:55 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:49 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:43 pm Nah man the main reason I "dipped" is because this game has an EOD about 30 minutes before I get out of bed so I more or less missed the entire final 10 hours of the day due to sleeping. I left my vote on Fext because Alison showed up and buried Fext in a way that made me feel like leaving my vote there was probably just the correct thing to do.
If you believe that you made the correct play, then you don't need to ask the question that you did coming into the thread:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:20 pm Sorry about that I got very busy. NAA why are you thinking Alison?

How about answering the question for a change... that'd be quite helpful to me.
I don't know what there is left to say... An obv town player was axed on D1 of a game that has 2 miss-elims. The logic was that he was mafia with a polarized player that had one good game in which people didn't force anything alignment indicative out of him.
[VOTE: NotAnAxehole] aubergine
You've seen NAA put all his eggs in one basket before, right?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:28 am Fext was not obvious town. He was an incredibly scummy player with a very plausible scumslip theory hanging around his neck. It's been clear, both in this game and in past games, that you don't have a ton of respect for my town play, to the point that you said in basic mafia you'd be willing to completely contravene my entire legacy if I flipped town just out of spite. I could believe you would policy Mac for pushing a D1 misexe, I don't believe that you would adopt the same policy on me.
1. Who is this post aimed at?

2. Why wasn't Fext obvious town, outside of the scumslip? Did his inexperience factor into anything for you?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:42 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:34 am Fext/LC were T/T with some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them. We know this for a fact.

Mafia doesn't sit there and join in the tunnel. Mafia just drops a townread on Fext that's weak enough it won't change the outcome of the day, sit on the counterwagon, and roll in free towncred then gets town to sleepwalk on the players pushing Fext for being wrong once. If I die the game is almost certainly lost and all mafia has to do is allow town to murder each other.

This is exactly how NAA has been playing, and he's jumped straight to the "kill everyone on Fext's wagon because they're just such good players they can never be wrong on a single player ever" line the moment D2 opens.
"some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them"???????? there is exactly one person that fits that description. Use my name please. Do not pretend like this was an effort of the group. I own up to yesterday, and I know I am obvtown because of it, granted for all the wrong reasons, but meh, still.

How about the mafia that were scumreading Fext before the tunneliest/loudest player started strongly strongly pushing for Fext's elim? Do they backtrack or go along with it?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:41 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:28 am Fext was not obvious town. He was an incredibly scummy player with a very plausible scumslip theory hanging around his neck. It's been clear, both in this game and in past games, that you don't have a ton of respect for my town play, to the point that you said in basic mafia you'd be willing to completely contravene my entire legacy if I flipped town just out of spite. I could believe you would policy Mac for pushing a D1 misexe, I don't believe that you would adopt the same policy on me.
1. Who is this post aimed at?

2. Why wasn't Fext obvious town, outside of the scumslip? Did his inexperience factor into anything for you?
I am stating my thoughts and casing my top scumread.

Fext wasn't obvious town because everything that came out of his mouth was complete horseshit that I spent much of my iso dismantling. His inexperience made me lean even more towards him being scum because newbie scum struggle to piece together coherent thoughts and as a result they end up having thought processes that don't make sense in perspective. I struggle to see how anyone could call Fext obvious town.
1. Who was your original post aimed at? This is a fair question, I relly don't know, but you use the word "you" a lot, so I need to know who "you" is to fairly judge the post.

2. Can you point to a single newbie scum being able to post as much as Fext has?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:50 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz
I didn't realize it was. The only person I saw bring up that point was NAA.

I think Mac as mafia would most likely have either silently sheeped the wagon and redirected all the blame to me the following day or townread Fext, voted some vanity wagon and peaced out if that was his strategy. I thought his townread on Fext was weird, but he wasn't using it to grab cred or anything and he has a track record of sheeping me even on people he townreads especially D1. I don't think it's particularly suspicious. I would policy him in F5/F3 if it comes to that, but I think NAA is basically outed from being in the exact position scum would want to be in and I don't think he's likely wolves with Mac.
Plz quote my case on Mac and tell me why I'm wrong. Mac's post connecting LC to Fext made it so he couldn't silently sheep as I personally pivoted from LC to Fext due to what I incorrectly saw as Fext's slipping. Why is it so weird to think that Mac didn't expect me to bite so hard, but felt stuck to his read, and was surprised when even after Fext was being kinda towny, Mac just stayed to elim a town?

Also, plz do it in a way that does not assume your own TMI on yourself. Like, I can accept that you might townread Mac because of your own alignment, but honestly, you/Mac is a super real world for me, so if it is false, I need arguments that work that don't rely on your own TMI.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:47 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:42 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:34 am Fext/LC were T/T with some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them. We know this for a fact.

Mafia doesn't sit there and join in the tunnel. Mafia just drops a townread on Fext that's weak enough it won't change the outcome of the day, sit on the counterwagon, and roll in free towncred then gets town to sleepwalk on the players pushing Fext for being wrong once. If I die the game is almost certainly lost and all mafia has to do is allow town to murder each other.

This is exactly how NAA has been playing, and he's jumped straight to the "kill everyone on Fext's wagon because they're just such good players they can never be wrong on a single player ever" line the moment D2 opens.
"some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them"???????? there is exactly one person that fits that description. Use my name please. Do not pretend like this was an effort of the group. I own up to yesterday, and I know I am obvtown because of it, granted for all the wrong reasons, but meh, still.

How about the mafia that were scumreading Fext before the tunneliest/loudest player started strongly strongly pushing for Fext's elim? Do they backtrack or go along with it?
Me. You. Mac.

Three loud, tunnelly players. All pushing Fext, until the point Mac recanted the scumread.

As I pointed out earlier, I think they either backtrack completely and flip to weakly shielding Fext for cred (which is pretty much what I think NAA is doing here), or they go along with it and blame a scapegoat. I don't think they do what Mac did, which is adopt some weird middle ground stance where they townread someone they want dead but don't gain any towncred for it.
Oh wolfy wolfy Alison...

1. Mac did not tunnel Fext, Mac tried so soooo soooooo hard to back off.

2. In what world am I supposed to believe the proud Alison describes herself as tunnelly unless she feels caught?

nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

sorry nah

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:53 am Mac/Alison feel like they tag-teamed in and out, and yeah... it ain't working....

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:53 am @Alison

What is your read of me right now?

@MacDougall

Same question?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:56 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:41 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:28 am Fext was not obvious town. He was an incredibly scummy player with a very plausible scumslip theory hanging around his neck. It's been clear, both in this game and in past games, that you don't have a ton of respect for my town play, to the point that you said in basic mafia you'd be willing to completely contravene my entire legacy if I flipped town just out of spite. I could believe you would policy Mac for pushing a D1 misexe, I don't believe that you would adopt the same policy on me.
1. Who is this post aimed at?

2. Why wasn't Fext obvious town, outside of the scumslip? Did his inexperience factor into anything for you?
I am stating my thoughts and casing my top scumread.

Fext wasn't obvious town because everything that came out of his mouth was complete horseshit that I spent much of my iso dismantling. His inexperience made me lean even more towards him being scum because newbie scum struggle to piece together coherent thoughts and as a result they end up having thought processes that don't make sense in perspective. I struggle to see how anyone could call Fext obvious town.
1. Who was your original post aimed at? This is a fair question, I relly don't know, but you use the word "you" a lot, so I need to know who "you" is to fairly judge the post.

2. Can you point to a single newbie scum being able to post as much as Fext has?
1. The word "you" here refers to NAA, re: the stuff about "you said in basic mafia", etc., because I was responding to his post. The post in general is directed at the rest of the thread, because they are who I wish to convince to vote NAA.

2. Off the top of my head, Alexa was coming out strong and spam posting threads from her very first game of forum mafia. At any rate I wouldn't clear someone for volume posting when the content of their posts are really bad.
So like... Fext is at Champs finalist level...

funny thing, I remember when you found out in Spank! that Jo was reasonably new. That pretty strongly affected your read. Why didn't it affect your read here?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:01 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:58 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:50 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz
I didn't realize it was. The only person I saw bring up that point was NAA.

I think Mac as mafia would most likely have either silently sheeped the wagon and redirected all the blame to me the following day or townread Fext, voted some vanity wagon and peaced out if that was his strategy. I thought his townread on Fext was weird, but he wasn't using it to grab cred or anything and he has a track record of sheeping me even on people he townreads especially D1. I don't think it's particularly suspicious. I would policy him in F5/F3 if it comes to that, but I think NAA is basically outed from being in the exact position scum would want to be in and I don't think he's likely wolves with Mac.
Plz quote my case on Mac and tell me why I'm wrong. Mac's post connecting LC to Fext made it so he couldn't silently sheep as I personally pivoted from LC to Fext due to what I incorrectly saw as Fext's slipping. Why is it so weird to think that Mac didn't expect me to bite so hard, but felt stuck to his read, and was surprised when even after Fext was being kinda towny, Mac just stayed to elim a town?

Also, plz do it in a way that does not assume your own TMI on yourself. Like, I can accept that you might townread Mac because of your own alignment, but honestly, you/Mac is a super real world for me, so if it is false, I need arguments that work that don't rely on your own TMI.
In that world why doesn't Mac just go "yeah, I think Fext is scum too, I agree with Seanzie and Alison", and then when Fext flips town, points fingers at you and says you did it?

Or why doesn't he just go "yeah Fext is my townread", but get off and don't do much to defend him so Alison + Seanzie push the wagon through anyway?
I think he thought I'd be wayyyyy less obvtown than I am. Like sorry, but I was wrong in the way that makes me clear town. Y'all could not have necessarily seen that coming.

How is it not almost always a good idea to let a tunnelly town cause another town to flip? Like... honestly 9/10 times that would have worked, but it is clear I went too hard.

Also Mac legit did try a flacid attempt to push me today. Did you read that, or did you skip it because it was a post by a partner?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:02 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:00 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:47 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:42 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:34 am Fext/LC were T/T with some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them. We know this for a fact.

Mafia doesn't sit there and join in the tunnel. Mafia just drops a townread on Fext that's weak enough it won't change the outcome of the day, sit on the counterwagon, and roll in free towncred then gets town to sleepwalk on the players pushing Fext for being wrong once. If I die the game is almost certainly lost and all mafia has to do is allow town to murder each other.

This is exactly how NAA has been playing, and he's jumped straight to the "kill everyone on Fext's wagon because they're just such good players they can never be wrong on a single player ever" line the moment D2 opens.
"some of the tunneliest/loudest players on the game pushing them"???????? there is exactly one person that fits that description. Use my name please. Do not pretend like this was an effort of the group. I own up to yesterday, and I know I am obvtown because of it, granted for all the wrong reasons, but meh, still.

How about the mafia that were scumreading Fext before the tunneliest/loudest player started strongly strongly pushing for Fext's elim? Do they backtrack or go along with it?
Me. You. Mac.

Three loud, tunnelly players. All pushing Fext, until the point Mac recanted the scumread.

As I pointed out earlier, I think they either backtrack completely and flip to weakly shielding Fext for cred (which is pretty much what I think NAA is doing here), or they go along with it and blame a scapegoat. I don't think they do what Mac did, which is adopt some weird middle ground stance where they townread someone they want dead but don't gain any towncred for it.
Oh wolfy wolfy Alison...

1. Mac did not tunnel Fext, Mac tried so soooo soooooo hard to back off.

2. In what world am I supposed to believe the proud Alison describes herself as tunnelly unless she feels caught?

nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

sorry nah
1. He tunnelled Fext at the start before he backed off.

2. I have repeatedly described myself as tunnelly. It doesn't offend my sense of pride because I don't think it's a bad trait at all.

Here is a recent example:

1. quote the posts where he tunneled Fext. He didn't push Fext for crap.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:03 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:53 am @Alison

What is your read of me right now?

@MacDougall

Same question?
I think you're probably town.
I'm obviously town.

You aren't.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:05 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:58 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:50 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz
I didn't realize it was. The only person I saw bring up that point was NAA.

I think Mac as mafia would most likely have either silently sheeped the wagon and redirected all the blame to me the following day or townread Fext, voted some vanity wagon and peaced out if that was his strategy. I thought his townread on Fext was weird, but he wasn't using it to grab cred or anything and he has a track record of sheeping me even on people he townreads especially D1. I don't think it's particularly suspicious. I would policy him in F5/F3 if it comes to that, but I think NAA is basically outed from being in the exact position scum would want to be in and I don't think he's likely wolves with Mac.
Plz quote my case on Mac and tell me why I'm wrong. Mac's post connecting LC to Fext made it so he couldn't silently sheep as I personally pivoted from LC to Fext due to what I incorrectly saw as Fext's slipping. Why is it so weird to think that Mac didn't expect me to bite so hard, but felt stuck to his read, and was surprised when even after Fext was being kinda towny, Mac just stayed to elim a town?

Also, plz do it in a way that does not assume your own TMI on yourself. Like, I can accept that you might townread Mac because of your own alignment, but honestly, you/Mac is a super real world for me, so if it is false, I need arguments that work that don't rely on your own TMI.
In that world why doesn't Mac just go "yeah, I think Fext is scum too, I agree with Seanzie and Alison", and then when Fext flips town, points fingers at you and says you did it?

Or why doesn't he just go "yeah Fext is my townread", but get off and don't do much to defend him so Alison + Seanzie push the wagon through anyway?
dont mind me just here to throw

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:11 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:07 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:56 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:41 am
I am stating my thoughts and casing my top scumread.

Fext wasn't obvious town because everything that came out of his mouth was complete horseshit that I spent much of my iso dismantling. His inexperience made me lean even more towards him being scum because newbie scum struggle to piece together coherent thoughts and as a result they end up having thought processes that don't make sense in perspective. I struggle to see how anyone could call Fext obvious town.
1. Who was your original post aimed at? This is a fair question, I relly don't know, but you use the word "you" a lot, so I need to know who "you" is to fairly judge the post.

2. Can you point to a single newbie scum being able to post as much as Fext has?
1. The word "you" here refers to NAA, re: the stuff about "you said in basic mafia", etc., because I was responding to his post. The post in general is directed at the rest of the thread, because they are who I wish to convince to vote NAA.

2. Off the top of my head, Alexa was coming out strong and spam posting threads from her very first game of forum mafia. At any rate I wouldn't clear someone for volume posting when the content of their posts are really bad.
So like... Fext is at Champs finalist level...

funny thing, I remember when you found out in Spank! that Jo was reasonably new. That pretty strongly affected your read. Why didn't it affect your read here?
Do you think posting a lot is what makes you a Champs finalist?

GGhana is not a newbie exactly but they are a notoriously polarized scum player. They top posted in Hydra G3. The point I am making is that it is absurd to assume that anyone who is newbie scum can't go above a certain number of posts. I think it's reasonable to assume they can't make posts above a certain quality, or to consistently provide good content. This is why I townread Jo in Spank! - she was making townie enough posts that I was willing to just clear her for them because I don't think a newbie scum could fake those posts. At no point did I say "Jo must be town because she is posting too many times". I said "Jo must be town because her posts are good". Fext's posts weren't good. Fext's posts were shit.
Weird thing is though... you didn't change your stance on Fext when you learned they were new like you did Jo. You have a clear uncertain period about you when you leanred Jo was new... none of that appears here.

The postcount thing is all just a distraction to see how your Fext progression went... and guess what? you didn't have one.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:12 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:09 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:17 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 am given LC is a leading wagon I do have to ask

in poking around I saw he just won a game as mafia where people were like really shocked by his performance

how much does that factor into all of your guys' perceptions of him in this game
found Lime Coke's partner, game is over

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:17 pm Oh wow Fext has a million votes lol.

Well I guess that's good.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:18 pm and LC isn't one of them lol

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 7:51 pm Lime Coke if you're town omgussing me because I am calling you and fext outed based on nothing is a pretty bad way to convince me of such
@Seanzie Here are Mac's posts where he strongly pushes LC/Fext as a team before moving to a townread of Fext.
Yes... four posts... and then?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:13 am I'd like to point out how Mac changed after Alison showed up

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:14 am This is an isolated wolf having a partner show up and getting a boost of energy because of possibly threadcontrol

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:14 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:11 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:07 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:56 am
1. The word "you" here refers to NAA, re: the stuff about "you said in basic mafia", etc., because I was responding to his post. The post in general is directed at the rest of the thread, because they are who I wish to convince to vote NAA.

2. Off the top of my head, Alexa was coming out strong and spam posting threads from her very first game of forum mafia. At any rate I wouldn't clear someone for volume posting when the content of their posts are really bad.
So like... Fext is at Champs finalist level...

funny thing, I remember when you found out in Spank! that Jo was reasonably new. That pretty strongly affected your read. Why didn't it affect your read here?
Do you think posting a lot is what makes you a Champs finalist?

GGhana is not a newbie exactly but they are a notoriously polarized scum player. They top posted in Hydra G3. The point I am making is that it is absurd to assume that anyone who is newbie scum can't go above a certain number of posts. I think it's reasonable to assume they can't make posts above a certain quality, or to consistently provide good content. This is why I townread Jo in Spank! - she was making townie enough posts that I was willing to just clear her for them because I don't think a newbie scum could fake those posts. At no point did I say "Jo must be town because she is posting too many times". I said "Jo must be town because her posts are good". Fext's posts weren't good. Fext's posts were shit.
Weird thing is though... you didn't change your stance on Fext when you learned they were new like you did Jo. You have a clear uncertain period about you when you leanred Jo was new... none of that appears here.

The postcount thing is all just a distraction to see how your Fext progression went... and guess what? you didn't have one.
Do you want me to link you games where I push someone, they say "I am new" and I don't give a fuck and continue pushing them anyway? Because I can.

You have your head up your own ass if you genuinely believe I care about someone being new or not new when all their posts are garbage. I'm just going to bury them because having bad posts = wolf regardless of if it's a new wolf or an experienced wolf.

Also Fext disclosed he was new before my case on him... so why would you expect my case to have a period of uncertainty as I absorb the knowledge that he is new?
Don't see the harm. No promise I'll look, but sure gimme those games.

They weren't garbage though... were they? Like Fext flipped town if you didn't check. You were wrong. Fext is commonly townread by wolves IME. He is not perfect, but garbage? nah. Not at all. You wolfy wolfy wolfy and being rude.

pretty sure I told the thread that, not Fext

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:20 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am @Seanzie let's vote Alison today...
Yeah, sure.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:24 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:06 am It's an awkward 3 way conversation because 2 people deliberately avoiding each other and pumping different narratives about their play.
Like... the change... after this post. It is so pulpable. You can't write this shit.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:25 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am Don't see the harm. No promise I'll look, but sure gimme those games.

They weren't garbage though... were they? Like Fext flipped town if you didn't check. You were wrong. Fext is commonly townread by wolves IME. He is not perfect, but garbage? nah. Not at all. You wolfy wolfy wolfy and being rude.

pretty sure I told the thread that, not Fext
I dug back into my game history and it turns out I actually haven't played with many newbies lately. Here's one from August: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Guns-17er

I was playing under the name Touko Fukawa, and tunnelled Superjack (who's a kinda newish, super polarized LHF player) to hell and back despite them spam posting and doing what many people saw as towntells.
I'll look at the game, but I'd like you to also respond to my other points. Fext flipped town, so you calling their post garbage is minimally a bit insensitive, and maxially trying to pretend like a townie wasn't a townie.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:26 am Re: yellow stuff - Fext flipped town. It doesn't mean that their posts made any more sense, or that the logic behind them wasn't terrible. I deconstructed this logic in my response to Fext's posts. When I say his posts are garbage I mean they don't make sense/don't have good logic.

Blue text - doesn't change my point. Fext was outed as a newbie before I cased him, why would you expect there to be a moment of hesitation in my Fext progression as a result of Fext's newbieness?
How do you go about reading Gavial when you're town?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:31 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am @Seanzie let's vote Alison today...
Turbo this if I flip.
Full legacy plz.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:33 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:31 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:25 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am Don't see the harm. No promise I'll look, but sure gimme those games.

They weren't garbage though... were they? Like Fext flipped town if you didn't check. You were wrong. Fext is commonly townread by wolves IME. He is not perfect, but garbage? nah. Not at all. You wolfy wolfy wolfy and being rude.

pretty sure I told the thread that, not Fext
I dug back into my game history and it turns out I actually haven't played with many newbies lately. Here's one from August: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Guns-17er

I was playing under the name Touko Fukawa, and tunnelled Superjack (who's a kinda newish, super polarized LHF player) to hell and back despite them spam posting and doing what many people saw as towntells.
I'll look at the game, but I'd like you to also respond to my other points. Fext flipped town, so you calling their post garbage is minimally a bit insensitive, and maxially trying to pretend like a townie wasn't a townie.
No, I am not trying to gaslight you into thinking Fext flipped red. That is absurd.

I am telling you that regardless of Fext's alignment their posts did not logically make sense. I pretty extensively deconstructed why their posts did not logically make sense in my ISO. I believe this to be something done by mafia a lot more than town (except for specific players who are crazy townies like Gavial). Therefore I voted Fext. Whether or not Fext is new doesn't change any of this. I don't see why it is insensitive for me to say that a post is bad when it doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not calling Fext garbage, I'm just saying his posting this game has been bad and I voted him out for it.
And you really, truly and honestly think Mac is town based on his D1?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:36 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:35 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:26 am Re: yellow stuff - Fext flipped town. It doesn't mean that their posts made any more sense, or that the logic behind them wasn't terrible. I deconstructed this logic in my response to Fext's posts. When I say his posts are garbage I mean they don't make sense/don't have good logic.

Blue text - doesn't change my point. Fext was outed as a newbie before I cased him, why would you expect there to be a moment of hesitation in my Fext progression as a result of Fext's newbieness?
How do you go about reading Gavial when you're town?
I often don't. I ignore him and let other players or the thread state sort him out for me because he is impossible to engage with.

When I do have to try to read Gavial I usually examine the purity of his tone, the consistency of his pushes (he is a lot likely to get stuck as town but will swing crazily to suit an agenda as mafia) and NKA because he is very bad about making kills that screw him over.
How many games deep did it take you to treat gavial like this?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:38 am I really can't get over how much more activated Mac is now that Alison is here.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:40 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:38 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:31 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 am
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:18 am @Seanzie let's vote Alison today...
Turbo this if I flip.
Full legacy plz.
Still think you're town, still think Falcon and Wilgy are town. Mac is likely town for reasons I've just gone over, though he should be policied in FX.

I suspect NAA. I suspect Creature.

If I am wrong on a townclear it is probably Mac or Wilgy.
Let's say we chop one of NAA or creature today, and if we miss we chop Mac... which of NAA or Creature do we chop?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:41 am Actually... Honestly...

I want to start a conversation over from ground zero...

@Alison

Mac's Fext push is sus af. Plz talk me through your thoughts on my case on Mac. I think at some point I asked you to quote it and talk about it. Plz go back to it now.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:45 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:33 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:31 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:27 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:25 am

I dug back into my game history and it turns out I actually haven't played with many newbies lately. Here's one from August: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... -Guns-17er

I was playing under the name Touko Fukawa, and tunnelled Superjack (who's a kinda newish, super polarized LHF player) to hell and back despite them spam posting and doing what many people saw as towntells.
I'll look at the game, but I'd like you to also respond to my other points. Fext flipped town, so you calling their post garbage is minimally a bit insensitive, and maxially trying to pretend like a townie wasn't a townie.
No, I am not trying to gaslight you into thinking Fext flipped red. That is absurd.

I am telling you that regardless of Fext's alignment their posts did not logically make sense. I pretty extensively deconstructed why their posts did not logically make sense in my ISO. I believe this to be something done by mafia a lot more than town (except for specific players who are crazy townies like Gavial). Therefore I voted Fext. Whether or not Fext is new doesn't change any of this. I don't see why it is insensitive for me to say that a post is bad when it doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not calling Fext garbage, I'm just saying his posting this game has been bad and I voted him out for it.
And you really, truly and honestly think Mac is town based on his D1?
Yes. Mac is a strategic scum player who plays with agenda. He is not likely to straddle the fence and take the worst of both worlds if he is mafia. Here is his last scum game, which he played with me: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ed-Hype%21

Day 1, suspicion falls on two of his mafia buddies: Mich-El, who has been afk and is well known to afk as scum, and Katze, who has made a PR claim and been counterclaimed. Mac hard defends both of them, and aggressively tries to counterwagon Great Partners, who is town. Mich-El goes over and flips mafia instead.

Day 2, Mac hard busses Katze, to the point that it had me townreading him in dead chat despite his D1 attempt at saving her. Katze goes over, and Mac coasts on the cred from killing Katze to win the game.

The point is that scum Mac plays in extremes because he wants to either crush the town or gain an immense amount of towncred. The other game I linked to you, Guns and Venom, he also adopted similarly extreme stances, where he hard defended some people and hard pushed others. I cannot remember Mac making a limp wristed push or back-and-forth stance as scum. I believe that if he was scum here would hard commit to either townreading and shielding, or scumreading and burying Fext, the former to gain as much cred as he can and coast through the game, and the latter to just get a town killed in a game where town have very few misexes.
Mac never went back-and-forth D1, except for his few appeasement posts to me D1 after I pushed people to give content around Fext's imminet flip. He was pushed to this, it was not natural.

What do you think scum!Mac would do if he saw town!Seanzie pushing as hard on town!Fext as I was pushing?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:53 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:48 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:36 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:35 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:29 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:26 am Re: yellow stuff - Fext flipped town. It doesn't mean that their posts made any more sense, or that the logic behind them wasn't terrible. I deconstructed this logic in my response to Fext's posts. When I say his posts are garbage I mean they don't make sense/don't have good logic.

Blue text - doesn't change my point. Fext was outed as a newbie before I cased him, why would you expect there to be a moment of hesitation in my Fext progression as a result of Fext's newbieness?
How do you go about reading Gavial when you're town?
I often don't. I ignore him and let other players or the thread state sort him out for me because he is impossible to engage with.

When I do have to try to read Gavial I usually examine the purity of his tone, the consistency of his pushes (he is a lot likely to get stuck as town but will swing crazily to suit an agenda as mafia) and NKA because he is very bad about making kills that screw him over.
How many games deep did it take you to treat gavial like this?
Like 3 or 4? In my first couple of games with him I just voted him out because he was obviously an insane person making insane reads/posts and being really annoying about it. You saw how he was like in Fallout, and I think that was my first game with him. I was 3P who didn't care about the exe and I wanted to kill him anyway lol.
Did you make a case on him his first few games?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:57 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz
requoting

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:58 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:57 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:37 am Seanzie why are you not more suspicious of Fext townreaders having TMI given that you thought Fext was outed D1?
My whole case around Mac is based on Mac's Fext-townready posts being TMI? Plz
requoting
@Alison Plz thoughts.

preferably on my whole case, but kinda feel like you've been avoiding this HUGE issue.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:59 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:52 am Mac never went back-and-forth D1, except for his few appeasement posts to me D1 after I pushed people to give content around Fext's imminet flip. He was pushed to this, it was not natural.

What do you think scum!Mac would do if he saw town!Seanzie pushing as hard on town!Fext as I was pushing?
I think in that scenario he would do one of two things: 1) hard defend Fext and make an ostentatious attempt to try to swing the vote away from Fext, while his mafia buddy plays the other side and ensure Fext goes over, or 2) go "yes, I agree with Seanzie and Alison, Fext is indeed scum", and park on Fext. And then when D2 rolls around, he essentially just says "I dunno, I was sheeping Seanzie/Alison, look at them if you want someone to blame".

If you want specifics:

I think if his mafia partner is NAA he would probably do 2). Remember when I theorized that he would try to swing the vote away from Fext while his mafia buddy parks on Fext? That would essentially be the same strategy, but with NAA being the ostentatious counterwagoner and Mac being the one sleeping on the Fext wagon.

If his mafia partner is Creature then he probably does 1), lets Creature sleep on the Fext wagon, get a town of cred D2, and then shield Creature with his cred (pulling on past meta or just blaming me and you instead of him).

If his mafia partner is Falcon or Wilgy he probably does 1) because he needs thread control and they can't give it to him.

If his mafia partner is me then he almost certainly does 1) and try to make it sound like the Fext wagon was all your fault.

In no worlds do I see it being a worthwhile or attractive play for him to try to townread Fext but in a way that doesn't grab towncred (when Mac absolutely loves grabbing immense towncred to coast on as we saw in Venom and Guns and G10), and also doesn't let him blame you/me for the Fext wagon because he apparently didn't agree with it in the first place. It just doesn't make sense and Mac always has a very strong agenda when he is wolf. The limp wristed back and forth treatment of Fext doesn't reek of a strong agenda to me.
And so you see nothing suspicious about Mac super strongly townreading Fext... but continuing to vote them and becoming limp in the thread?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:19 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:11 am What does he gain as scum if he does that? Like, just breaking it down. Scum know the alignments of every other player in the game. If he is scum he knows for certain Fext is town and he wants Fext dead. If he townreads Fext, it is to gain Fext's trust, or the trust of the town. If he votes Fext it is to get Fext killed because he is mafia.

The problem is that if he does both he lessens the effect of either. When he says Fext is towntelling, and he is Mac, some people might move off Fext, so he sabotages his plan to kill Fext. Conversely, by voting Fext he negates all his towncred that he would otherwise gain from his calling Fext town. The only reason Mac would try to do both things at once rather than lean into one side or the other is if he was using mind games and trusting that I would come to this exact conclusion and shield him. Which is why I'd policy him at FX to avoid that possibility, but why would scum Mac mind game D1 when he could just go to sleep and let Seanzie murder Fext?
I don't think it was necessarily a strategic move. He made a mistake. Fext appears really really pure to those who have TMI. Mac was surprised by how the thread treated Fext.

You are extremely likely to be a wolf to not be aware of this yet.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:27 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:24 am Fext wasn't pure to me at all. I keep asking people why Fext was obvtown and they can't give me solid answers.

I think if Mac was wolf and came into the thread and saw Fext as being really pure and obvtown and also saw town Alison and town Seanzie attacking Fext he would just hard defend Fext and move his vote off.
Plz give me a town!mac argument that doesnt depend on you being town.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:30 am Like let's say he is wolf, he is partners with me, and he sees the way you treat Fext. I hop on to kill Fext... and he has the perfect opportunity to defend Fext. He knows I can get people killed D1, which means Fext will go over regardless of whether he has his vote there or not, and he also knows that he can get sick towncred if he defends Fext. He could be in the position that NAA is in right now today with nobody really questioning him except me, if he had defended Fext and I was his partner.

So Mac would defend Fext if I was mafia, and Mac would defend Fext if I was town. Ergo, Mac is town.
The second sentence is categorically false. Please try again wolf.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:34 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:30 am Like let's say he is wolf, he is partners with me, and he sees the way you treat Fext. I hop on to kill Fext... and he has the perfect opportunity to defend Fext. He knows I can get people killed D1, which means Fext will go over regardless of whether he has his vote there or not, and he also knows that he can get sick towncred if he defends Fext. He could be in the position that NAA is in right now today with nobody really questioning him except me, if he had defended Fext and I was his partner.

So Mac would defend Fext if I was mafia, and Mac would defend Fext if I was town. Ergo, Mac is town.
The second sentence is categorically false. Please try again wolf.
Why is it categorically false?
YOur order of events. What exactly did you originally "hop" on to?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:50 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:42 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:38 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:34 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:30 am Like let's say he is wolf, he is partners with me, and he sees the way you treat Fext. I hop on to kill Fext... and he has the perfect opportunity to defend Fext. He knows I can get people killed D1, which means Fext will go over regardless of whether he has his vote there or not, and he also knows that he can get sick towncred if he defends Fext. He could be in the position that NAA is in right now today with nobody really questioning him except me, if he had defended Fext and I was his partner.

So Mac would defend Fext if I was mafia, and Mac would defend Fext if I was town. Ergo, Mac is town.
The second sentence is categorically false. Please try again wolf.
Why is it categorically false?
YOur order of events. What exactly did you originally "hop" on to?
The sequence of events, as I remember it, happened this way.

1) I express generalized suspicion of both Fext and LC for the way they have been posting.
2) You think that Fext has scumslipped.
3) I strengthen my suspicion of Fext, independently, for poor responses to my pressure, and think your scumslip theory is plausible besides. I vote Fext.

If I am town then I have done 3) as a genuine belief and fully intend to tunnel Fext into the ground. If I am mafia then I am doing it because I am a wolf and intend to kill a townie. Either way, a wolf Mac would have confidence that I would ensure Fext goes over, and you clearly were intending to 1v1 him to his death as well.

My point is this. After Mac sees 3, if he is a wolf, he would have no reason not to hard defend Fext. Fext was going over regardless, the writing is on the wall, and he gets a bunch of towncred on the side for it.
Mac hard!spewed Fext town well before Mac "saw 3". Legit, thinking Mac might be town because of whatever, okay... but you are ignoring my cases. You are finding ways to not listen to me. You are doing the thing that wolves do when they can't sus a person, but can't work with them either. Nothing I say will sway you, and it isn't because you're tunnelled (weither on town or scum).

You're just scum.

The number of holes in this... is huge. Like I can give evidence if need be. Alison is not actually considering mac here. Probably they both wolves, but minimally this is Alison always wolf. Alison always wolf.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:55 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:52 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:50 am Mac hard!spewed Fext town well before Mac "saw 3". Legit, thinking Mac might be town because of whatever, okay... but you are ignoring my cases. You are finding ways to not listen to me. You are doing the thing that wolves do when they can't sus a person, but can't work with them either. Nothing I say will sway you, and it isn't because you're tunnelled (weither on town or scum).

You're just scum.

The number of holes in this... is huge. Like I can give evidence if need be. Alison is not actually considering mac here. Probably they both wolves, but minimally this is Alison always wolf. Alison always wolf.
When did Mac hardspew Fext town? He only did the townread on Fext after I had already cased Fext.

Go on, show me the holes in the logic.
do you think I'm town still?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:58 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:56 am I'm still waiting for:

1) Evidence that Fext was genuinely townie D1. You didn't think he was back then, yourself, but apparently he was obvious?

2) The refutation of my logic that you claim has a lot of holes in it.
Not willing to engage with you not on my terms. If you decide to scumread me, then say so. Otherwise, burden is on you to satisfy me, not the other way around.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:58 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:55 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:52 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:50 am Mac hard!spewed Fext town well before Mac "saw 3". Legit, thinking Mac might be town because of whatever, okay... but you are ignoring my cases. You are finding ways to not listen to me. You are doing the thing that wolves do when they can't sus a person, but can't work with them either. Nothing I say will sway you, and it isn't because you're tunnelled (weither on town or scum).

You're just scum.

The number of holes in this... is huge. Like I can give evidence if need be. Alison is not actually considering mac here. Probably they both wolves, but minimally this is Alison always wolf. Alison always wolf.
When did Mac hardspew Fext town? He only did the townread on Fext after I had already cased Fext.

Go on, show me the holes in the logic.
do you think I'm town still?
I am starting to think you are mafia. You have been engaging in bad faith, claiming there's holes in my logic, and that Mac did something at a certain date, when I look back at the posts and he only townread Fext after I cased Fext. I've been going back and forth with you on this for dozens of posts and you haven't engaged with my logic, while accusing me of not engaging with yours (when I have).
What is the hole in logic? you made posts about Fext before Fext had eyes on him. I even made a snide post towards you asking you if Fext was the D1 miselim because I thought your treatment of Fext was kinda sus. Do you want to bring that up? we can?

"he only townread Fext after I cased Fext"... after you cased him the first or second time? Did his views change the second time you cased Fext? (because his weird read-change but not vote-change happened between the first and second)

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:11 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:10 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:07 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:58 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:55 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:52 am
When did Mac hardspew Fext town? He only did the townread on Fext after I had already cased Fext.

Go on, show me the holes in the logic.
do you think I'm town still?
I am starting to think you are mafia. You have been engaging in bad faith, claiming there's holes in my logic, and that Mac did something at a certain date, when I look back at the posts and he only townread Fext after I cased Fext. I've been going back and forth with you on this for dozens of posts and you haven't engaged with my logic, while accusing me of not engaging with yours (when I have).
What is the hole in logic? you made posts about Fext before Fext had eyes on him. I even made a snide post towards you asking you if Fext was the D1 miselim because I thought your treatment of Fext was kinda sus. Do you want to bring that up? we can?

"he only townread Fext after I cased Fext"... after you cased him the first or second time? Did his views change the second time you cased Fext? (because his weird read-change but not vote-change happened between the first and second)
I think Mac would have hard defended (as in moved his vote off Fext and voted the counterwagon) Fext if Mac was wolf. The reason I think he would do this is that he saw me tunnelling Fext. If Mac was a wolf, he would have sat back, defended Fext, and counted on me to do the dirty work of burying Fext.

What part of this argument is full of holes/categorically false/whatever you want to call it?
When would Mac have done this? before or after he tied Fext to LC?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:22 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:15 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:43 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 6:29 am It's a matter of how people think, really

If you're gathering early votes as mafia in a game with no PRs in particular I'm sure the very last thing you want is to avoid giving people a fact that may help to lower their suspicion of you. Ergo, I would have found NAA not doing that to have been quite towny.

Basically, it's not a matter of me thinking he'd not have an explanation for why he voted me, but instead just the fact that if he chose to essentially redirect pressure on himself into positive force elsewhere without including a semi-relevant fact in his defense that doesn't actually do anything to help determine anyone's alignment, it would be indicative to me of a focus on solving over self-defense at a time when that would conventionally be completely unnecessary to go out of your way to project.

Considering he did not, and so I have not made any definitive statements on his alignment, I'm confused what you're all up in arms about - even if you disagree with my logic there, I'm not using it to make any actual reads in this game at the moment lol
So you're saying that NAA is town for not defending himself when he could have, because as town he'd care more about solving than defending himself, and as scum he wouldn't care about solving and would only care about defending himself. Except that's a false dichotomy, because as town he could easily go "Well, I voted Mac first, but if you wanna know why I voted Fext, here's why: blah blah".

I'm "up in arms" about your logic because I think it doesn't make sense. You were presenting it as part of your thought process, a conditional you were using to evaluate NAA's alignment. If your thought process/conditional isn't coherent, then I'm inclined to think it was never part of a genuine solving process and was just something you made up to look like you were trying to solve NAA.

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 4:48 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:07 pm no wait it clearly is and I'm dumb for thinking you didn't think it was bs aren't I

Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:09 pm putting that ploy aside

if it helps you any NAA I am in fact town
What the fuck does this mean? What is the "ploy" referenced?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:01 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm also it's not a nitpick if you're pushing me because "regardless of whether creature is scum or town, you reading him in your townier group is always malicious" to call that out as being gross

he can either be one or the other and you choosing to always ascribe that to pointing towards me being evil is senseless at best and outright malicious itself at worst
[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

This is nonsense. If you have an incoherent or illogical read on someone, that is suspicious behavior regardless of the alignment of the person you were reading.
It is upon reading this series of posts that a wolf Mac would think "I should just defend Fext for towncred, Alison will clearly do my job for me".
1.) why should I believe you're V here?

2.) What do you think of mac's takes before this point?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:39 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?

"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:42 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:41 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:39 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?

"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
What are the alleged differences in my case on Fext before and after Mac showed up to the thread? Why are those differences relevant?
No! you acknowledge differences but do not CONSIDER MAC!

CONSIDER MAC

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:45 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:41 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:39 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:32 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:27 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:23 am tbh if alison is mafia like... it's just wilgy lol
Alison's doing things that confuse her "pre you" vs "post you" stuff and her cases don't involve reflection. She's obv wolf. Like... just bus her at this point probably?
What do you mean pre Mac vs post Mac?

"My cases don't involve reflection" is a vague, generic argument that is entirely used to discredit me without specifying the specific parts of my arguments that are wrong or lacking and why they're wrong or lacking. Your repeated insistence on attacking me in this way is why I am starting to scumread you; they don't make sense, they don't fit your town playstyle, and they are esesentially focused on trying to make me look bad more than they're actually engaging with my points.
your case on Fext before Mac showed up to the thread vs what happend post-Mac showing up to the thread. you conflate this shit with so much agenda and then ignore my points...
What are the alleged differences in my case on Fext before and after Mac showed up to the thread? Why are those differences relevant?
I do not feel like you've given me a fair exchange in regards to Fext and Mac. Give me a fair exchange and we can talk. I am not willing to talk otherwise.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:48 am I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.
You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:10 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:48 am I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.
You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?
Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.
I think you "mind games" crap is BS. Look at the thread. Look at how Mac treated Fext.

you refusing to see it...

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:36 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:31 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:23 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:10 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:56 am
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:48 am I've given you page after page explaining my logic as extensively as humanly possible. If you want to talk, be extremely clear, specific and precise about what it is you want. I've had enough with you throwing vague nonsense at me and pretending it means something and I am scum for not responding to it enough. If you want a fair exchange from me so we can talk, then define it. Tell me what a fair exchange is, and what you want from me. No more "you haven't reflected enough", "you haven't considered the differences", etc. Be specific.
You don't understand how Mac changed on Fext, and that is telling.

Would you mind doing me a favor and pretending like Mac is scum and I'm right, and letting me know how such a world would look?
Then let's be clear.

You tell me, in simple 4th grader terms, how you think Mac's read/treatment on Fext changed. Then you explain why this contradicts something I've said, or some characterization I've given on the situation.

In a scenario where Mac is scum, then I believe that the way he has treated Fext - ie. townreading Fext but leaving his vote on Fext anyway - is most likely because he is playing mind games. I believe that this action does not benefit him as scum. Ergo, he is doing it to get townread by people who know it doesn't benefit him as scum, like me. For obvious reasons, I don't think Mac is mafia with you or NAA. I know I'm town, and the way he went after Creature for slanking through the day suggests that they are not partnered. (Specifically, I think a mafia Mac with Creature partner wouldn't want to draw even more attention to his partner when he - that is, Creature - is already under pressure. He might be bussing Creature, but if that was his intent he wouldn't have gotten stuck in the reads trying to argue with and case you - mafia Mac busses very confidently and violently.)

So, in this world, I think he's most likely scum with one of Wilgy or Falcon.
I think you "mind games" crap is BS. Look at the thread. Look at how Mac treated Fext.

you refusing to see it...
What's your theory?

Let's say Mac is mafia. What does he stand to gain by doing this to Fext?

You've said that if he's mafia he'd see Fext as being really pure - okay, why not shield the obvtown pure person then?

You've said that you thought he was caught by surprise and reacted in a bad way. Caught by surprise by what? It's an asynchronous forum game and he can take as much time to think about his post as he likes. Why would his kneejerk reaction to an unexpected bout of townieness, as mafia, be to townread them and then refuse to take the vote away?

I'm looking at the thread. What am I supposed to be seeing here?
It's really not that hard. You have all the pieces. Put it together and convince me it isn't a read you legit took this long to come to.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:36 am [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:16 am tomorrow after I have decompressed

me where it is night

pretty good rebuttal tbqh

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:32 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:22 pm Red: So your case is that you're bad at the mafia alignment?

Yellow: Both wolves voted Fext D1, I'm not granting you this one

Green: I agree, I commented on how both were having a go at you

Purple: I don't understand how this is a point in your favor given it's a big part of my case, whoever is Alison's mafia partner completely ignored her obvious scum day 1 which was enabled by townies following suit. I understand that people in this game are smart, they are not your average mafia player. These people are well-read. they are in college or have degrees. they know about analyzing data and drawing conclusions... But man, it's fucking awful that you all overlooked obvious scum Alison, and obvious town Fext. And that really makes it a very complicated decision today... Given that this setup has no room for error.

Orange: So was Mac, so was Creature, So was Wilgy. The issue is there are so many people who were voting in ways that left Alison with very few options... Yeah, you could have gone off of Alison, and you would have died for it... Don't take credit for my work on pushing Alison, it's embarrassing.

I haven't re-read, still need to do that, I don't know what to think.
Red: No. I just don't look like Alison's teammate.

Yellow: Voting Fext and hardpushing Fext are different. In general if exactly two people are hardpushing a wagon D1 that flips town, you don't expect both to be mafia. Not saying that couldn't happen, but it is not mafia-indicative. Mac is trying to say it is mafia indicative. Not true.

Green: Yes, and it was palpable that they weren't reading eachothers posts, and literally you pointing it out made them realize they needed to distance more and started actually interacting. I know they're good players, but I was putting a lot of pressure on them, so they forgot about eachother while tryign to deal with me.

Purple: There was nothing spot-fire flare-up-y about my interactions with Alison. Any time her and I were in thread together D2, I was interacting with her. I literally could not have interacted with her more D2 if I tried. Again, D1, I didn't interact with her as much, but I really thought Fext was mafia, and she was pushing Fext, so I was fine with her at that point.

Orange: I'm not talking about voting Alison here. I'm talking about limiting where she can push. D2 I pushed her about how she read me. As I pushed her, I made her commit to me one way or the other. Her voting anywhere else would have been weird, and she would have had to have made a case as to why they were a better choice than me. I limited her options at EoD. You and others voted for her, sure, but she would have had more options for where to push EoD if it wasn't for me.

I'm not saying that's mafia indicative I am saying that the way Alison/you came out both pushing not each other is teammate indicative.

The second point about our interactions is like ... no? I don't even recall NAA commenting on it. Also I am very conscious of distancing so if there is a lack of it between me and Alison it's more a point in my favour than against. You know this and you're just refusing to see it.

I disagree on the purple. You spent more time engaging me than her by hours. Alison and you barely spoke.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:32 pm I'm the straightest shooter this town's got.

you best be shooting at the bad guy and not this guy

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:10 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:08 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:04 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:03 pm thats all well and good sir but I am town
Then find mafia.
If its not you it's wilgy.
Is Wilgy just PoE, or?

I don't actually think it's Wilgy I just think it's you.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:04 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:03 pm thats all well and good sir but I am town
Then find mafia.

If its not you it's wilgy.

thats all well and good sir but I am town

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 11:44 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:27 pm @falcon45ca please look at these posts and tell me if you actually think this is townie content and not a wolf creating a lot of shallow content. You can either read my takes or ignore them, but please look at these.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:17 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Seanzie didn't like the dead townie townreading me lol
This is a really bad take. Mac super good wolf. LC townreading him there was weird. No way town!Mac interprets this as me not liking a dead townie townreading him?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:54 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
[VOTE: LC] aubergine
yeah wtf Seanzie is just mafia how did we get like this
No actual explanation here as to why me voting LC for what looks like TMI points to me being mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:18 pm Creature/Seanzie bag and tag it
No actual thought here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 am Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

no thought here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:27 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
Why tho?
asks a shallow question. Mac gives no take on why it wouldn't be or anything. no effort needed for this.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:28 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 am Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am

You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
I agree with Alison on all points.
well this I didn't expect to see?
Doesn't actually give a take here, just points out votes on dead townies. There isn't anything inherently scummy about votes, Mac is not giving thoughts at all.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:32 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:11 am Holy fuck I'm towntowntowntowntown

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair
I am not going to lie. I have actually been town clearing you in games for the past six months because you only ever open games when you are town by saying that you are town and when you are mafia you do not. I swear this read is accurate lol. (don't fact check it)
weak read.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:34 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:47 am
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:42 amcan confirm
Your pocket attempt is duly noted, and while I appreciate the effort, it won't work...this time.

You may try again later if you like
like this just reads like empty bs
This is not really a good take. what is empty or BS about this post?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:25 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 am given LC is a leading wagon I do have to ask

in poking around I saw he just won a game as mafia where people were like really shocked by his performance

how much does that factor into all of your guys' perceptions of him in this game
I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

All the things I've said in the thread are merely masking the fact that I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.
hmmm
no actual thoughts given here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:43 pm I am starting to become confbiased into seanzie/alison worlds so imma gonna stop backreading for a bit
unclear how he got here. He hasn't actually given any thoughts or reasons on me or Alison. Quoting posts and going "hmm" is not thoughts. going is not a thought. Looking at Alison having voted LC and Fext but giving legit no thoughts about it does not constitute progression.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:55 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 pm if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps
Fext, I'm obvtown at this point, move me up.

Also LC does not belong there. Neither does NAA.
hmmm
Again, no thoughts. Just "hmmm". This is extremely fake and performative.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
the timing of this vote profiles as a distancing vote designed for future optics
Meh, this is literally the best post out of all of the ones he did in his quick burst, but it's still not really a good take.
He didn't give thoughts. Look at those posts. Look at how shallow they are. It is very very performative. He created a lot of posts with no real content.
Fewer words doesn't mean shallow content, and tbh I feel you're being the performative one atm.

I can see what you're saying tho w/ re: to Mac's read as feeling like a wolf push if you are town.

I'd like Alison/Creature flip before either of you or Mac

probably why falcon died

also very funny

none of that is scummy actually... all very towny

I don't consider you to be out of your scumrange. You just often don't bother. I am similar.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:42 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:36 pm I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it
Then self-vote. I'm okay with this plan and will deal with the consequences tomorrow if I'm wrong about you, but I don't think that happens.

Also, the vast majority of my recent posts aren't to you, they're to the rest of the thread.

Still waiting on you to explain why you think I'm scum... because guess what? You've voiced scumreads on me all game, but haven't actually explained why. I really can't fake this level of aggression on people like you, Fext or Alison. You've seen me wolf before and you can look at all my past wolf games. Unless you think I'm somehow just overshooting my wolf range by 10 miles, I am an easy read here.

This is not really to Mac, but to everyone. I can be found here.

I have explained why in more than enough words. There isn't a min word count on a reason to suspect someone.

You look like Alison's teammate. You were both responsible for the d1 miselim and then started day 2 ignoring each other's existence. Your interactions are typified by spotfire flare ups but when push came to shove you both voted where you did (on each other) after all your other avenues were exhausted.

if you want me to reply to you and explain things try not posting walls of emotional ballshit every time cuz I just will not respond.

make your points.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:21 pm There are like 100 arguments for scum!Mac here both involving Alison, and his individual play.

Look at my play, has anyone had an argument for me being scum off my play?

Mac is trying to argue I'm scum off NK's (which is easy for scum!Mac to manipulate).

The only other possible way someone could see me as scum here is because of interactions with Alison, but literally, look at what happened early D2. None of that would be necessary if me/Alison were wolves together. We were highly uncoordinated, I pushed her extremely hard, almost to the point of being rude, that isn't "distancing". Again, I can't fake that level of aggression on someone even if I want to.

It is Mac. I don't know how y'all can ignore all the wolfy crap he has done, or all the agenda he has. He has been obvious since he flipped his "scumread" into a townread on Fext but then didn't follow through because I kept pushing Fext (literally... this play makes no sense for me if I'm mafia. Mac messed up there. Look at how active he was D1 before that exact moment, and then how he just peaced out after for the rest of D1, except when I pressed the thread for content).

see like I try to read your shit but it's all just nonsense... I wasn't active after that point because of my timezone which I've explained several times and you just ignore.

if you're town this L is entirely on you for bad tunneling.

I think you just flip me and flip seanzie here and if the mafia is someone else gg

I'm not gonna have another day of seanzie yelling incoherent shit at me... ain't about it

if ur town you caused this by tunneling me anyway ... not sure what else I could have done

yeh but nah

If I was her partner I'd have just bussed tbh

Alison didn't go to Seanzie until after I did. I'm sorry but if I was mafia and I'm already voting Creature with t!Wilgy I just push Creature and Alison crosses for self pres. Also Falcon would have been more inclined to vote Creature than Seanzie. Objectively makes no sense for me to do what I do as her partner and all of her play is designed to make me look as bad as possible.

I moved my vote off Creature and onto Seanzie. Creature had a vote on him (Wilgy). Seanzie had no vote. Alison then tries to push Seanzie and not Creature. She was clearly trying to take advantage of my vote to spew me mafia and Seanzie town. I think she was also trying to spew Creature mafia by refusing to push him. The whole day was a setup to make me and Creature the game winning miselims.

@DrWilgy @Seanzie I believe one of you is mafia. I believe the NK spews it more likely to be Seanzie. Wilgy why do you feel like "it can only be mac"? Why would I ever kill Falcon?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:04 pm I'm going to re-read because I really want to win this game, but man... I'm still not over D1, this game should have been super easy. The only player I'm probably not going to re-evaluate is Creature.

I feel the same about Creature

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:14 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:13 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:10 pm I am most definitely not mafia so I encourage the town to consider carefully. At least this game gets to f3 so we don't have to solve it right now.

Axe is the only person I am confident on being town. Alison and her partner would have been in anti spew yesterday.
Why are you confident in town!Axe?

If you could choose the next two chops, would would they be and why?
Ask better questions.
Why are you confident in town!Axe?

If you could choose the next two chops, would would they be and why?

The fact that you think the first question needs answering is not a good look for you. Alison would have subbed out if Axe played the way he has with her as his teammate.

The second question is absurd to ask because full re-evaluation is required.

Level 1 says Wilgy is the mafia.

But Alison spent immense amounts of energy spewing Seanzie town.

I would say the mafia is between them.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:12 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:10 pm I am most definitely not mafia so I encourage the town to consider carefully. At least this game gets to f3 so we don't have to solve it right now.

Axe is the only person I am confident on being town. Alison and her partner would have been in anti spew yesterday.
Why are you confident in town!Axe?

If you could choose the next two chops, would would they be and why?

Ask better questions.

The idea that I kill Falcon and not Axe or Seanzie is truly laughable also. Falcon would be one of my only win conditions.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 7:20 pm It's just a matter of PoE at this point I'd reckon.

Hopefully we just hit the rascal in Mac. Don't really see who else it is. I'd rather not deal with no final three.

This post is garbage.

I am most definitely not mafia so I encourage the town to consider carefully. At least this game gets to f3 so we don't have to solve it right now.

Axe is the only person I am confident on being town. Alison and her partner would have been in anti spew yesterday.

might even if it's a hit tbh

Game is hard man... I think Alison could be mafia and if this is a miss I will probably just plant my vote on her in f5.

[VOTE: seanzie] aubergine

keep reading

@Creature where are you at?

@Seanzie your worldview is borked if you are town. What can we do to resolve this because I feel like you just keep talking past me and all of your points are just definition tunneling nonsense.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 9:27 pm @falcon45ca please look at these posts and tell me if you actually think this is townie content and not a wolf creating a lot of shallow content. You can either read my takes or ignore them, but please look at these.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:17 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Seanzie didn't like the dead townie townreading me lol
This is a really bad take. Mac super good wolf. LC townreading him there was weird. No way town!Mac interprets this as me not liking a dead townie townreading him?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:18 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:54 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
[VOTE: LC] aubergine
yeah wtf Seanzie is just mafia how did we get like this
No actual explanation here as to why me voting LC for what looks like TMI points to me being mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:18 pm Creature/Seanzie bag and tag it
No actual thought here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:25 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 am Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

no thought here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:27 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
Why tho?
asks a shallow question. Mac gives no take on why it wouldn't be or anything. no effort needed for this.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:28 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 am Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
I agree with Alison on all points.
well this I didn't expect to see?
Doesn't actually give a take here, just points out votes on dead townies. There isn't anything inherently scummy about votes, Mac is not giving thoughts at all.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:32 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:11 am Holy fuck I'm towntowntowntowntown

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair
I am not going to lie. I have actually been town clearing you in games for the past six months because you only ever open games when you are town by saying that you are town and when you are mafia you do not. I swear this read is accurate lol. (don't fact check it)
weak read.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:34 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:47 am
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:42 amcan confirm
Your pocket attempt is duly noted, and while I appreciate the effort, it won't work...this time.

You may try again later if you like
like this just reads like empty bs
This is not really a good take. what is empty or BS about this post?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:41 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:25 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 am given LC is a leading wagon I do have to ask

in poking around I saw he just won a game as mafia where people were like really shocked by his performance

how much does that factor into all of your guys' perceptions of him in this game
I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

All the things I've said in the thread are merely masking the fact that I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.
hmmm
no actual thoughts given here.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:43 pm I am starting to become confbiased into seanzie/alison worlds so imma gonna stop backreading for a bit
unclear how he got here. He hasn't actually given any thoughts or reasons on me or Alison. Quoting posts and going "hmm" is not thoughts. going is not a thought. Looking at Alison having voted LC and Fext but giving legit no thoughts about it does not constitute progression.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:55 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 pm if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps
Fext, I'm obvtown at this point, move me up.

Also LC does not belong there. Neither does NAA.
hmmm
Again, no thoughts. Just "hmmm". This is extremely fake and performative.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:57 pm
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine
the timing of this vote profiles as a distancing vote designed for future optics
Meh, this is literally the best post out of all of the ones he did in his quick burst, but it's still not really a good take.
He didn't give thoughts. Look at those posts. Look at how shallow they are. It is very very performative. He created a lot of posts with no real content.

what the actual fuck are you talking about dude it's like the opposite of performative jesus christ

convince me

sean is not allowing himself to view anything outside of his very narrow worldview which leads me to believe that he has less of an agenda to solve the game than he does to force through two mislynches

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:26 pm @MacDougall Who's the more likely wolf between Creature & Sean in your eyes?

probably sean tbh

I gotta work. I'll try to dig deeper when I have the time.

particularly in light of what occurred after it

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:33 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

the timing of this vote profiles as a distancing vote designed for future optics

@Creature why are you voting Wilgy?

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 pm if I had to gth reads rn it'd look something like these two groups, townier one on top

NotAnAxehole
Creature
falcon45ca
Lime Coke

DrWilgy
MacDougall
Seanzie
Alison

although frankly I'm not confident I could put all of those into words I am open to being asked for what elaboration I can provide on a given player

also if I wrote this list again in an hour it could probably look completely different since I really am trying to build reads out of scraps
Fext, I'm obvtown at this point, move me up.

Also LC does not belong there. Neither does NAA.

hmmm

it is quite bizarre that Alison hasn't pushed Creature

I am starting to become confbiased into seanzie/alison worlds so imma gonna stop backreading for a bit

Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:25 pm
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:05 am given LC is a leading wagon I do have to ask

in poking around I saw he just won a game as mafia where people were like really shocked by his performance

how much does that factor into all of your guys' perceptions of him in this game
I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

All the things I've said in the thread are merely masking the fact that I am voting for him for that reason and that reason alone.

hmmm

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:36 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:32 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:11 am Holy fuck I'm towntowntowntowntown

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair
I am not going to lie. I have actually been town clearing you in games for the past six months because you only ever open games when you are town by saying that you are town and when you are mafia you do not. I swear this read is accurate lol. (don't fact check it)
This is NOT accurate, it's one of the first tells I checked when I got on site - I think there is content within the first post that can be read into - need more data in more varied contexts, but the fact that he makes it is not.

hahaha thank you for informing me...

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:47 am
Fext wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:42 amcan confirm
Your pocket attempt is duly noted, and while I appreciate the effort, it won't work...this time.

You may try again later if you like

like this just reads like empty bs

End of page 2 I have Wilgy as the towniest by some stretch... Seanzie, Alison and Falcon all had really shit starts to the game in light of the flips.

beyond that, Falcon's entrance was actually quite wolfy.. immediately attacked an already reeling Fext for dumb shit

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:11 am Holy fuck I'm towntowntowntowntown

Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair

I am not going to lie. I have actually been town clearing you in games for the past six months because you only ever open games when you are town by saying that you are town and when you are mafia you do not. I swear this read is accurate lol. (don't fact check it)

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:52 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:46 am Seanzie is town.

Fext isn't.

[VOTE: Fext] aubergine

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:49 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:51 am
Seanzie wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 12:02 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 11:33 pm Mac probably town.
You really feel comfortable enough to townread Mac off 5 posts?
Now that you ask this question, 100% yes.
This might actually be the scummiest post in the thread.

[VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine
I agree with Alison on all points.

well this I didn't expect to see?

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