The Syndicate

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:50 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm Maybe a bit of a reach of a request but if you're town I think you're gonna have to show it a bit more if town is going to win this one. We can't really afford scummy town play or even lurky town play here. We have to make it obvious by our behaviour.

Who is this directed at

Everyone except Duskfall.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:49 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:49 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm Ok we don't shoot Johann why are you coming up with these shots just shoot boo

Boo is one of my bigger town reads.

Why do you have the gun again

Why are you so rude? Did your mother not breastfeed you?

Like there is really ... nobody who I can lock clear here on their posting. Which is abnormal.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 pm Ok we don't shoot Johann why are you coming up with these shots just shoot boo

Boo is one of my bigger town reads.

Maybe a bit of a reach of a request but if you're town I think you're gonna have to show it a bit more if town is going to win this one. We can't really afford scummy town play or even lurky town play here. We have to make it obvious by our behaviour.

If you see this before EOD can you please just tell whether if you had to choose you would shoot Jack or Johann.

boo - no
Dragomir - no
DrWilgy - no
Duskfall - ...
Funnygurl555 - no
G-Man - ...
Hyena - ...
Jackofhearts2005 - ...
Johann - ...
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - ...
nutella - no
Sloonei - no

Duskfall... nah
G-man... nah
Wilgy... nah
Hyena ... nah
Johann maybe
Jack maybe
Nanook maybe... nah.

Kind of in two minds about Johann and Jack here.

I'm going to switch to shooting Nanook I think.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:39 pm Dude if you have a strong meta read on jack and are convinced he is scum then go ahead and shoot but if he flips town after you claiming you've that strong a read to shoot him over many better shots then you're going down dramatically so bet the game on it if you are that convinced , but only shoot him if you are willing to risk the game

Why would missing on the first night mean I'm going down dramatically? And why would shooting Jack and being wrong on night one be risking the game? I'd say we get to day 2 with no wolf flips >75% of the time. Why are you being so dramatic?

I just wonder what I would do as a wolf if I was in the situation where someone like me had a gun.

Would I:

a) Talk to Mac. Try to coerce him into a bad shot?
b) Talk to Mac. Buddy him? Not talk about who to shoot? Just let him make his own mind up (particularly if he's demonstrably in the wrong headspace)
c) Post nothing at all and hope?
d) Antagonise Mac. Call him out on incorrect reads etc.

Hmmm. It's hard. I feel like if I was town here that I would be posting loads and really trying to help encourage a shot on a target I thought was bad.
But also there isn't really a super obvious target here. The wolves aren't super obvious. But if I was scum, I'd honestly probably be pretty careful and posting a bit less than usual. Not nothing, but like speak when spoken to and really not offering much guidance. Unless I really had to speak up in defence of myself or a teammate.

Hmmm.

[mention]leetic[/mention] how long until end of night?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:35 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:31 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:24 pm I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

You best not leave cuz you're going to need to really explain yourself here.

Firstly, it seems to me like Jack has had nothing but a lock town read on you the entire time. So where did he "suspect you"?

Gonna need that other towny thing too.

He did not have a lock town read on me the entire time I know because it's something I was definitely paying attention to, he still only has me as slight town

You're not gonna get the second thing cause I'm tired and its 2:30am and not reading back in the game rn sorry

Apologies I thought this was a Hyena post because Hyena was spamming at the time. Ignore.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:31 pm I mean if you claim to have some strong meta read on jack I can't really compete consdering I've never been town in a game with him but I'm town reading him personally

Side note I have no idea why you think scum jack would auto won if he lives today that's actually the point I disagree with most there's a lot of good players in this game odd to think anyone would have auto d2

I think jacks paranoia on me and Nanook is what town him would think and his wariness developing into slight town reads is just believable imo, particularly me who is obv town but he knows I'm also the best scum player in the world so "oh no what do I do"

Jack, for all the memeing he does about it, is one of the hardest players to lynch imaginable. In this game only Nanook would compare.

I do have a strong meta read on Jack. I've played dozens of games with him and caught him before. I've also been fooled before, so I am not so hoisted on my own petard to feel like this is a guarantee.

Jack's paranoia on you and Nanook being what town him would think - could you show me the posts you're referring to? I'd in particularly be looking for evidence that he isn't fooling you by doing exactly what you'd expect of town Jack.

Personally when it comes to player's like Jack, I prefer to try to work out what their motivation is in a game than read their posts. He knows how to sound town when he types up posts. What you can't fake is what you're trying to accomplish in a game. When you're a wolf you aren't trying to accomplish a town win con. Unless you're a weirdo. I can see evidence of others trying harder than him to accomplish a town win con. Which surprises me. Also he is missing those "oh he's just townie" posts that knock me out of tunnels.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:24 pm I think jack had been townie, particularly in his progression on me I believe it is how town him would suspect and read me

Something else was towny earlier and I forget but I'm not bothered re isoing because I don't really ever re read a game thats boring

Jack may be underwhelming recently but I do think others have been worse and are therefore better shots

You best not leave cuz you're going to need to really explain yourself here.

Firstly, it seems to me like Jack has had nothing but a lock town read on you the entire time. So where did he "suspect you"?

Gonna need that other towny thing too.

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm Johann, Nutella, and FG would be all shots I'd be fine with. I'd only shoot Jack after those three and G-Man.

I don't think I'd shoot Mac or Dusk ever. Nanook would be a SUPER spicy shot, especially considering that he's starting to trend into that tone territory where I get iffy about him, like I did in Corona Virus.

Talk to me more about Johann, as well as your Nanook read.

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:23 pm I think I'd keep Sloonei around another day.

Why did you frame it like this, versus just town reading him? What is your reservation?

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:25 pm Boo and Drago are no-gos for me right now. I'd never shoot them right now, but if I had to pick one to die over the other right now, it would always be Drago to shoot over Boo since I'm less sure about Drago. Boo just feels pure right now to me.

Why did you feel the need to pair these two off? Particularly why did you feel the need to go from no go-s to choosing between them? I don't understand your thought process here.

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:20 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:42 pm

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:25 pm Jack is weak sauce paranoia kill, give him more time to give content

Alright Duskfall.

How is it a weak sauce kill? Also, how is it a paranoia kill? Also, Jack has had as much time as the rest of us to give content. Why should he be given more time, over someone else being given more time? What has Jack done to deserve a stay of execution?

All of this is answered by the fact he hasn't been scummy, in fact I think he's towny

You don't think he's scummy you just think not towny, it's a weak kill because you aren't aiming for someone who is most likely to flip mafia but rather someone who is low on activity

I appreciate your attempt to understand my perspective, even if it was a great assumption on your part, but you dramatically misunderstand my reasons for wanting Jack dead, which are numerous.

Reason #1 - Lack of effort in solving. Jack has coasted day 1 here. He doesn't care about the roof.
Reason #2 - He didn't beg for the gun - I believe town Jack would have had an insatiable appetite for the gun. I know Jack. He'd have loved to have the gun.
Reason #3 - Of the little solving he did do, particularly his town solving of Johann, I don't trust that it was genuine. Arriving at "this player is wrongtown" is fine, but the way Jack did it wasn't natural to me.
Reason #4 - Lack of consensus viable suspects. Nobody really stands out. For everyone that one of you thinks is an obvious shot, there's another of you who are absolutely sure that it's a bad one.
Reason #5 - The most consensus target here is Funnygurl. a) I town read her. b) I trust in my ability to read her more than I trust in anyone elses here. Not just because of the recent game but because last time I played with her on TS I town read her early and everyone was scum reading her. c) I think she is spewed town by how many people are scum reading her frankly. She's the low hanging fruit.
Reason #6 - If Jack is a wolf and I don't shoot him here, he'll probably just win.

I'd like to do GTH but there ain't many people here. Sucks.

I think that doing a GTH exercise might help a bit here. Because I'd like to keep track of people's opinions in this build moreso than usual.

So we have FG going into bat for Wilgy and Sloonei going into bat for G-Man. Ok.

[mention]NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME[/mention] do you have any issue with me shooting Jack?

I want people to tell me if they have strong feelings in a way that I can understand. If you want me to get this shot right and you feel strongly:

a) Don't insult me for my existing reasoning
b) Clearly explain your reasoning with work, help me see what you see

Otherwise you're just being unhelpful.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 6:53 pm I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

I agree with the feel of Jack, but I wouldn't think them to be w/w.

That's two of the people you had previously confirmed. Was there anything other than the above that changed that?

You've got a developed enough read on Jack/Johann interactions to not consider them w/w? Tell me why.

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:41 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:40 pm

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:12 pm damn there wasn't much to sift through.

my only objection to a jack shot is if he's town, then what? it's an inconsequential kill if he is

So what town kill would be consequential?

ppl who talked idk

you do you man

Lol don't do that. Stand by your opinion. Jack has made plenty of posts you know. He's not a low poster. He just feels like that because he's made no impact.

Which people who've talked should I kill if not Jack?

Duskfall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:25 pm Jack is weak sauce paranoia kill, give him more time to give content

Alright Duskfall.

How is it a weak sauce kill? Also, how is it a paranoia kill? Also, Jack has had as much time as the rest of us to give content. Why should he be given more time, over someone else being given more time? What has Jack done to deserve a stay of execution?

Funnygurl555 wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:12 pm damn there wasn't much to sift through.

my only objection to a jack shot is if he's town, then what? it's an inconsequential kill if he is

So what town kill would be consequential?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 6:53 pm I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

I agree with the feel of Jack, but I wouldn't think them to be w/w.

That's two of the people you had previously confirmed. Was there anything other than the above that changed that?

I snap cleared them off tone. I had hardly read their posts. Jack always has good tone, I'd never hope to catch him from tone. Was a dumb idea to clear him from it.

Why you town reading him?

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:23 pm Assuming you're not still gonna refuse to do anything I say to do just because

When did I do that exactly?

Also tbh I've caused EOD chaos even when none of my team are close to lynched because the town always focus on EOD chaos to hunt through and want to solve counterwagons etc.

EOD madness in ordinary games is led by scum if/when there is a scum up for lynch and they feel like they can get away with it.

Personally I don't think that the scum actually had the audacity to hard hunt the gun yesterday. It's too hard for no real gain. They still have their kill and there is no guarantee the town shoots fur anyway so why bother. If they make a commitment to not bother trying to get the gun then why bother showing up at EOD.

If you all bully me I'll change it is where I'm at.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:14 pm Effen theorem is a concept mu people toss around (I believe named after a player from a few years ago) that basically states that town are more likely to care at EOD and be influential during the crazy vote-changing times // scum are more likely to let EOD happen without their influence. It's a sweeping generalization and yeah also RL reasons for not being around often contribute as well

MU needs to stop coining vernacular

So basically here are my narrowed down options.

G-man - Not spicy but I think he's scum
Wilgy - Not spicy and I think he's town
Johann - Lil bit spicy and I think he's scum
Hyena - Spicy and I suspect
Dragomir - Spicy and I suspect
Jack - Flaming spice and I think he's scum

I have the shot submitted on Jack unless I have a change of heart.

Wot

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:04 pm Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

hmm this is... a take I guess, but not entirely sure if it's a good take since he doesn't really have much in the way of interactions that I can remember anyway

He has a lot more than other options I've been considering.

Hmmm

I mean. I don't think that's even close to AI. If real life beckons it doesn't matter what your role card says surely.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 7:00 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 6:53 pm I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I have no reason to single Jack out as a suspect. He wasn't here when I was here last night. But at least if he gets shot he can preserve his unlynchable claim some more.

I don't like that Jack is acting low key. He's also skating. He also won't get lynched if he's scum. I think he's a good shot. Maybe not the most likely to flip wolf but he's the most likely to flip wolf in a way that destroys the scum team if he is one.

Also I do think he is one. I don't believe half the shit he says. He's just applied an urgent scattery tone to the few posts he's made that makes it look authentic. He cleared Johann off being wrongtown and I never understand people that do that. Johann/Jack feel teamy to me.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 2:52 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:33 pm FG - Sus -1 -1
Hyena - Sus +1 -1 Ugh Fuck you Hyena
Nanook - Cleared
Johann - Cleared
Nutella - Sus
Jack - Cleared
G-man - Sus
Sloonei - Sus
Nutella - Sus
Boo - Seems ok
Wilgy - Null as usual fuck you Wilgy

Lol I can't believe I have the gun this is great.

Lol, thanks Dad.

Run by me why Nanook, Johann, and Jack are clear.

They're not. In fact ... I'm shooting Jack.

I kinda want to shoot Jack. Does anyone object?

I agree. That is why I am going to shoot G-man.

I still have the gun. How good.

Alright I'm done. Thanks for playing minds made up now. See you tomorrow.

nah wait he was stupid and wrong

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:51 am I have gamesolve anyway.

boo - scum
Dragomir - town
DrWilgy - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Duskfall - town
Funnygurl555 - scum
G-Man - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Hyena - town
Jackofhearts2005 - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
Johann - doesn't matter cuz my towncore is big enough
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME - town
nutella - town
Sloonei - town

Shooting order:

FG > Boo > G-Man > Wilgy > Jack > Johann

Game winning POE already.

Oh I forgot yesterday mac allready solved the game. I'm just gonna do what this says.

FG - Sus -1 -1
Hyena - Sus +1 -1 Ugh Fuck you Hyena
Nanook - Cleared actually Nanook is being way too fun and nice this is probably his scum game lol
Johann - Cleared
Nutella - Sus FUCK THIS IS JUST WOLF DIE
Jack - Cleared
G-man - Sus
Sloonei - Sus
Nutella - Sus
Boo - Seems ok
Wilgy - Null as usual fuck you Wilgy
Dragomir - Seems ok or not

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:34 pmmeatfisted

Assfisted

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:37 am

Hyena wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 4:22 pm I'm bored with the convo about Johann self-shooting. I'm so bored with it, I refuse to reread it and make reads from it.

Hyena is town. Lock it and throw the key away.

Say stuff about this

boo wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:32 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:28 pm Why were so many people town reading Hyena? He feels way scummy and his FG interactions are hamfisted.

I was working with him (and Gman kinda boarded that train toward EoD) because he was approaching things in a similar enough way to me that it was a better alternative. I don't townread. I'm not sure that I trust him. I don't agree with you about FG though.

You don't think his interactions with FG are hamfisted?

FG - Sus -1 -1
Hyena - Sus +1 -1 Ugh Fuck you Hyena
Nanook - Cleared
Johann - Cleared
Nutella - Sus
Jack - Cleared
G-man - Sus
Sloonei - Sus
Nutella - Sus
Boo - Seems ok
Wilgy - Null as usual fuck you Wilgy

Lol I can't believe I have the gun this is great.

But like if I had to snap shoot someone right now it'd probably be Hyena.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:28 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:27 pm Update

FG - Sus -1
Hyena - Sus +1
Nanook - Cleared
Johann - Cleared
Nutella - Sus
Jack - Cleared
G-man - Sus

i don't know what the +'s and -'s mean.

Well I'm just like. Making reads, then updating them. Then if I have a feeling that contradicts or enforces that I'll put a little + or minus there. I dunno it's for me not you.