The Syndicate

Roxy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:49 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 5:44 pm The more I think about it, I’m not sure I would’ve had the solve if I were in the f3. I wouldn’t have snap voted like Roxy, but I feel confident that I would’ve talked in circles for the whole 48 hours before ultimately just voting Jack because some things are inevitable lol
If you had read your own ISO I think you would have found the solve and not been swayed by others. It was all in your ISO, well mostly bc some was in my head

Yes, we weren’t so easily swayed by Alison and Camilla as tinfoils, it’s just that 9/10 a wolf doesn’t start/push their partner. She was responsible for leading charge against both. Who does that?

Alison, apparently. Brilliant play, but sets a dangerous precedent going forward for future games

Jack, you played great subbing in and brought town really close. We went down the wrong path, but I do believe if you hadn’t subbed in, we would’ve yeeted your slot early on and maybe lost earlier

The more I think about it, I’m not sure I would’ve had the solve if I were in the f3. I wouldn’t have snap voted like Roxy, but I feel confident that I would’ve talked in circles for the whole 48 hours before ultimately just voting Jack because some things are inevitable lol

Note to self: never trust Alison with good reads ever again

It’s an unfortunate side effect from playing so pro town. Well done!

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:41 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:35 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:13 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:11 pm (I still think it's Wilgy/Camilla)
I'm actually less certain on you now as I remembered something.
Could you talk about it now? Or at least who you have with Wilgy?

Cause I'm having a hard time thinking of anyone but you that can be wolves with Wilgy. But if you think Wilgy is a wolf and I might not be....who could he be wolves with?
It's a theory that I'd like to wait until tomorrow to talk about.

I feel like I've been reading much of the game all wrong.

Would this be influenced by Wilgy’s alignment?

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:48 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.
Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?
I think so.

Here's what's happened.

1) I determined that she was the cop for putting a slanker as her top town read overnight, which felt that she n1'd Wilgy and found him green.
2) I did not want others to know that I thought that she was the cop so I lied about my reads and added artificial uncertainty to them.

That's basically it. Want me to out my doctor read as well?

nah doc will out if they need to

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:44 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr
Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.
Come on though- you were a town voice. Why put Wilgy in nulls at all? You had 3 other town reads- you can easily put him in bottom of the town. Hell, you even had him below me, of all people
Again, I panicked when I realized that I was "outing" Tutuu and had no idea what to do with it. I just didn't want to talk about it anymore to prevent spewing.

If Tutu flipped cop then I'd just put Wilgy as V and then actually out it. Yes, it's an awkward way of handling a wolf slot but as you can see in my SoD it was pretty much done as a result of me misreading Tutu as cop.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:46 pm .......@Scotty.......what.......do.......you make.......of.......wolf!Camilla..............being.......the topic.......that.......Roxy.......has sunk..............her teeth.......into.............. the deepest?.......

*stirs the pot*

I think that tracks. Roxy has been tinfoiling Camilla for a while

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:37 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:35 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 pm

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."
This is mostly based off the idea that the Camilla "I thought Wilgy was a green peek from Tutuu" is actually somewhat believable and it would be kinda weird for w!Camilla to commit to this theatre if she knows Wilgy is also a wolf. I mean....I'd do it. I've done it in the past. But I don't really think most players do this. Idk. Thoughts?
Wasn't it painfully obvious that this was what happened D2?
It's really not.

The problem is that "I am teamed with Wilgy and so I'm going to continually put him at the bottom of my greens so that he's off the table without it looking like I'm defending him and I'm going to put him in the POE but not really talk about him so that he's on the table but not the focus and it doesn't look like I'm defending him" and "I think Wilgy is green peeked so I'm going to put him at the bottom of my greens/edge of my POE so that I don't out Tutuu as the cop and Wigly as the peek but also he never goes over today" look very very similar.

In both cases, you're looking to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted without looking like you're trying to keep Wilgy from getting yeeted.

That sentence was so long it outran Forrest Gump

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:39 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:26 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:21 am At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker
If Wilgy's a villager then the game-state's completely fucked up.

The wolves in this case would be Jack plus one of you or Pyxxy but your paranoia has felt villagery and Pyxxy has had some good spots despite gimmicking, and Pyxxy has had some non-W/Wish interactions with Jack.

It can technically be but with how Jack's playing this endgame I feel like it's just him and Wilgy.
Well if Wilgy is town, I’m turboing you or Alison tomorrow.

And I’m probably not turboing Alison.

I don’t believe both you and Alison to be bad, ergo to have this switch onto Wilgy today when pyxxy would have been a perfectly easy sleepwalk today is suspect.

So agreed- if Wilgy is town, game state is fucked
.......serious.......moment.......scotty..............

.......I'm.......holding you.......to this..............wilgy town..............jack dies.......

..............also.......can't you see..............I'm.......spewed town..............by the thread now?.....................

Dude you’re not even on my radar since I woke up this morning.

If Wilgy wolf, I think it less likely you’re wolf

If Wilgy town, game state is fucked and I reassess, but Camilla/Alison is def wolf

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:37 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:13 pm
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:04 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:22 pm And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.
nah I do not do "meta" I do vibes/tone/feels. So thats the biggest NO from me I refuse to read back at a past game lmao
Just as an awareness thing- and it’s no big deal- but when you bring up points like you did earlier on how ‘I’ve played with you before and should know your games’ this is kinda how I feel too. Meta can be hard for me to grab onto, because a) meta can change and b) I don’t have the mental capacity to remember people’s nuances.

Again, just bringing awareness that you seem to not want to use meta when looking at other people but use it as a defense when others suspect you, and it can come off as hypocritical.

Please know this is not an indictment on your character, but how I read you in games
lmao I did do that

I cannot thank you enough for this post I will try to refrain from it in new games. <3

How’s your 30th birthday treating you?

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:34 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.
I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible
If Tutuu was a cop and she was being cop read she'd not go "YES CAMILLA, I'M THE COP AND I HAVE A GREEN ON WILGY."

It's pretty much an argument completely done in bad faith as you are supposed to keep the PRs hidden and someone who's been playing this game for as long as Jack should be aware of that.

Wait I’m confused- this sounds like you’re arguing that you determined she was not the cop

Am I missing the crux of this?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 pm

Me real quick internalizing if there's anyone besides Camilla that could be wolves with Wilgy or there's any wolfteam that doesn't include either Wilgy or Camilla.

I'm coming back with "I guess there's a very slim chance of Alison wolves with Wilgy instead of Camilla and I've missed it for not really looking at Alison" and "I guess there's a very slim chance of Pyxxy and Alison but I don't think we ever get there so it's not really worth looking into."

If Wilgy is wolf, Alison is clear as far as I’m concerned

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr
Again, if I suddenly put Wilgy at the top after that exchange with Tutuu it would basically out to the wolves that I read Tutuu Cop with a green check on Wilgy.

The entire reasoning I put Wilgy in the null zone was so I'd disguise this read and not talk more about it.

Come on though- you were a town voice. Why put Wilgy in nulls at all? You had 3 other town reads- you can easily put him in bottom of the town. Hell, you even had him below me, of all people

pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:28 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:54 pm That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw
.......helluva.......lotta..............pre-flipping.......here..............batman.......

Have you read the previous posts I’ve made today.

We’ve moved on from checkers and we’re playing warhammer bro

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:25 pm Idk at what point Neon claimed cop but by D3, Camilla has two wolves in this group as her solve:

Wilgy
Jack
Pyxxy
Falcon

Neon never claimed cop afaik

It was only her death and looking back into her blatant defending of tutuu that the info came out

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:20 pm And again, Tutuu literally says "This is not me softing a green peak on Wilgy."

There is zero reason to think Camilla thought that and a TON of reason to think she didn't. This is a retroactive read intended to make people townread her. It's a lie.

Camilla is a wolf.

I must defend her here. I can see a cop tutuu saying she’s not softing a green. It’s pure WIFOM because it has to be if she feels like her cover might be getting blown

I still think it’s far fetched in general, but it’s possible

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.
There is no way Tutuu could have had a green check on anyone tbh.

Well we know this now, but I can see the viewpoint Camilla is talking about. Tutuu came into d2 with a full rainbow list and listed Wilgy as top town based on almost nothing.

I missed it at the time because I wasn’t cop hunting, but Camilla does allude to that

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 4:45 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 4:42 pm How we feeling with Rondo/falcon wagons? I feel pretty good that at least one of these is wolf
Maybe?

I'm still fairly certain on Alison/Zenon, a bit less on you/Tutu. Roxy is probably just a villa.

Atp Wilgy/J feel like reading tea leaves and are also in my PoE as Pyxxy so I'm not 100% certain that these wagons have at least 1 wolf in them.
Wilgy is so null, trying to find his alignment is like "reading tea leaves."

Again, this is a player Camilla claims to think is green peeked.

I also don’t get that quote. If she feels she’s identified the cop on D2, why would she even mention that she’s a bit less certain on tutuu?

hmm, I just checked that progression. Camilla isn’t explaining herself well.

Check out this progression

Where tutuu lists her rainbow list towards top of day, with Wilgy weirdly listed as top town. Camilla asks about that read, and eventually pulls back because she thought she fucked up by blowing Tutuu’s cover.

The progression is all there, and I can see why from her perspective she would be paranoid of others going there.

However; that still doesn’t excuse why she would put Wilgy as a middling null in her own reads latwr

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:13 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:07 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:02 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:58 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm

Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.
Then how come you have Wilgy in your nulls (or if there are supposed to be 3 green categories, at the bottom of your townleans) in your next readlist?

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:42 pm Camilla
Zenon
Alison
tutu

Scotty

J
Wilgy

falcon
pyxxy

Roxy
Rondo

Currently where I'm at, tbh.

Because I didn’t want to signal to the wolfteam that “HEY GUYS THIS IS THE COP AND SHE HAS A GREEN CHECK ON WILGY.
You can list someone as a townread and not out the cop

You just didn’t even list him as town, which jack is right. It’s weird and not concurrent with your previous thought
It’s awkward because I realized how badly I was signaling my Tutuu copread and tried to make it look less blatant.

What else can I do? If I put him in my townreads then I’d be confirming my copread and if I put him in my wolfreads then it’d look weird if I tried to defend him.

I had no indication or awareness that you thought tutuu copped wilgy. If you actually had paranoia that others thought you thought that tutuu was the cop, it is what it is.

Granted, I haven’t been thinking about the cop at all this game.

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:04 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:22 pm And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.
nah I do not do "meta" I do vibes/tone/feels. So thats the biggest NO from me I refuse to read back at a past game lmao

Just as an awareness thing- and it’s no big deal- but when you bring up points like you did earlier on how ‘I’ve played with you before and should know your games’ this is kinda how I feel too. Meta can be hard for me to grab onto, because a) meta can change and b) I don’t have the mental capacity to remember people’s nuances.

Again, just bringing awareness that you seem to not want to use meta when looking at other people but use it as a defense when others suspect you, and it can come off as hypocritical.

Please know this is not an indictment on your character, but how I read you in games

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:02 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:58 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm

What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.
Then how come you have Wilgy in your nulls (or if there are supposed to be 3 green categories, at the bottom of your townleans) in your next readlist?

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:42 pm Camilla
Zenon
Alison
tutu

Scotty

J
Wilgy

falcon
pyxxy

Roxy
Rondo

Currently where I'm at, tbh.

Because I didn’t want to signal to the wolfteam that “HEY GUYS THIS IS THE COP AND SHE HAS A GREEN CHECK ON WILGY.

You can list someone as a townread and not out the cop

You just didn’t even list him as town, which jack is right. It’s weird and not concurrent with your previous thought

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:48 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:35 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:29 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:21 pm im looking at camilla and rondo as top mafia suspects

then tinfoil category is pyxxy and roxy

then falcon category coz its falcon

everyone else is super town
What about Wilgy?

I basically have him in my "kinda villagery" area for his last vote on Porscha but in the end it I don't think that it was as good a reason for me to towncore him as Alison/You/Seanzie/Zenon.
i had a villager read on him from his opening post of him being exhausted with his quirk

so basically he says that every game

one time he didn't - he was actual doctor. the next time he was doctor he said it, but im making the argument that wilgy attaches some ... lets say stress/anxiety/effort to his one-liner copy paste gimmick.

him expressing that he got tired of it this game, just like stopping it midway and being like "nvm" basically just reprents to me that he's a vanilla town. so in a way he "let jesus take the wheel"

i might be clearing him too easily, you are making me feel paranoid, but ...

he did sheep. which. hm.

if i try to justify my townread on wilgy im falling flat.

so lets say ... im just going with gut here. i cant provide solid logical argumetns for why wilgy is mega town

also to clarify im NOT softing a green on him
Yh, I'm fine with not voting Wilgy for today.

I don't wanna say anything more as I feel like I've already fucked up enough rn.
Just pulling some Camilla/Wilgy interactives.
I interpreted this as Tutuu having a green check on Wilgy. Which shows a lack of TMI rather than agenda.

Tutuu’s post there doesn’t seem like she greenchecked wilgy. She is actively waffling on whether or not she should be paranoid of him

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:54 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:42 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:47 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:22 am Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions
Depends on if Wilgy's the RBer and if they found the doc or not. If they can stop the doc then it's most likely Alison being that she's basically the player who has had the strongest finger on the pulse on the game-state.

Like, I don't get why I'm being tinfoiled despite that the past two nightkills both had me as a very strong townread and that Zenon and I have a lot of mutual experience with each other.
You don’t get why you’re being tinfoiled?

You don’t really think that, do you? I mean, it’s not like you’ve been the beacon of towniness. I know why I’d be tinfoiled.
I mean, Zenon’s basically the person who had the most experience with me and she got NK’d while strongly TRing me and Tutuu also TR’d me so id you’re not going to take the reads of the dead into account then there’s nothing I can do.

I didn’t play d1 due to a mixture of work and chronic health issues so if the crux of this paranoia boils down to me not being able to play because of my body not allowing me to then why would I be bothered?

Well, zenon also hard defended Porscha and tutuu had her blinders on regarding me before she went down, so people can be wrong. It happens.

And I’m not criticizing your absence from D1 as a personal thing. I sense a bit of frustration there that I’d be judging you for that. When in reality, you being absent from the vote for Porscha objectively leaves you open to being partners purely by a voting standpoint. Does it not?

That jack is willing to die even before Camilla when Wilgy flips wolf is downright telling btw

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:26 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:22 pm And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.
Full disclosure, I vote similarly when I'm a wolf. For instance, voting twice in 4 days of Hot Fuzz mafia. My wolfgame is largely me larping my towngame.

So it’s not AI. Got it

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:22 pm And just for @Scotty and @Roxy worrying about me not voting fast enough, here are the receipts for that being normal town Jack behavior.

viewtopic.php?t=2485
Scooby Doo Monster Collective. I'm the D2 (mis)elimination. I vote once all game and it's on the last page of my iso.

viewtopic.php?t=2458
Cartomancy. Wolves conceed D5. I vote 4 times all game.

viewtopic.php?t=2445
Nanook's Anniversary Game. I suicide kill w!Doby middle of D2. I cast 1 vote all game.

Me not voting has nothing to do with...whyever a wolf player in my situation might not vote and everything to do with the way I play the game, which is to treat my vote like a gun. I only aim it at something I intend to kill.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:11 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:52 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:48 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:24 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:09 pm Jack/Scotty fits in better as teammates with Wilgy than Pyxxy. I don't think Pyxxy/Wilgy would spend the entire game trying to hellbus each other like this, tbh.

Most likely Jack as I liked Scotty's paranoia on me while Jack's push on me kind of just feels like he's piggy-backing on Roxy's paranoia than actually doing anything to move the game-state forward.
Lul

Classic wolf Jack tactic. Sheep paranoia of low end poster from two days ago.

Moving to a three player poe is moving the gamestate forward. You just don’t like where I’m moving it.
What about Alison/Scotty/Roxy?

There's been very little suspicion on me and you only started turning on me the moment the latter two started to do so.
Suspicion on them, as I meant the three ones. Why me over Scotty/Alison since we've basically been roughly in the same tier until Roxy/Scotty began tinfoiling me.
but I have had you as a tinfoil since D 1 it's just that no one looks at my posts until today. So it did -not- just begin --- it began 2 days (mafia days) ago.
I mean, you've consistently had tinfoil on me. Thing is this sudden shift on Wilgy/Jack's PoV on me basically coincided with how Zenon/Tutu died who were the people that were TR'ing me the strongest and Scotty started tinfoiling me.

Like, Wilgy/Jack barely mentioned me at all and I only became PoE when it became convenient as my defenders died.

I don't get how you/Scotty aren't exactly seeing how opportunistic both of these two's suspicion on me have been as none of those two voice these suspicions until today and it was basically just tunneling more LHF-y acceptable people like Falcon or Pyxxy.
Okay but you're looking at me going back and doing a fuckton of work on everybody and interaction with you and working things out until I'm at "Camilla is for sure a wolf" and Wilgy randomly putting you in a POE for no stated reasons and being like "They're the same picture."

Which is just.....none of what you're doing this day phase makes any sense at all from t!Camilla.

In Camilla’s defense, you making deep dives and putting on your monocle is exactly what wolf jack should be doing. Shows constitution and could extend your life into endgame

Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:53 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:07 pm [VOTE: Jack] aubergine
where did this come from suddenly?

It goes hand in hand with the post you quoted before this

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:52 am
Roxy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:48 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:24 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:09 pm Jack/Scotty fits in better as teammates with Wilgy than Pyxxy. I don't think Pyxxy/Wilgy would spend the entire game trying to hellbus each other like this, tbh.

Most likely Jack as I liked Scotty's paranoia on me while Jack's push on me kind of just feels like he's piggy-backing on Roxy's paranoia than actually doing anything to move the game-state forward.
Lul

Classic wolf Jack tactic. Sheep paranoia of low end poster from two days ago.

Moving to a three player poe is moving the gamestate forward. You just don’t like where I’m moving it.
What about Alison/Scotty/Roxy?

There's been very little suspicion on me and you only started turning on me the moment the latter two started to do so.
Suspicion on them, as I meant the three ones. Why me over Scotty/Alison since we've basically been roughly in the same tier until Roxy/Scotty began tinfoiling me.
but I have had you as a tinfoil since D 1 it's just that no one looks at my posts until today. So it did -not- just begin --- it began 2 days (mafia days) ago.
I mean, you've consistently had tinfoil on me. Thing is this sudden shift on Wilgy/Jack's PoV on me basically coincided with how Zenon/Tutu died who were the people that were TR'ing me the strongest and Scotty started tinfoiling me.

Like, Wilgy/Jack barely mentioned me at all and I only became PoE when it became convenient as my defenders died.

I don't get how you/Scotty aren't exactly seeing how opportunistic both of these two's suspicion on me have been as none of those two voice these suspicions until today and it was basically just tunneling more LHF-y acceptable people like Falcon or Pyxxy.

I see how opportunistic they are. Duly noted.

I’m just in a mindset where you are still in the POE when and if Wilgy flips wolf.

And if you’re town, I feel like you’d be even more accepting of that. That you are flabbergasted that you would even be conceived as a suspect at this point is boggling to me

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:47 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:22 am Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions
Depends on if Wilgy's the RBer and if they found the doc or not. If they can stop the doc then it's most likely Alison being that she's basically the player who has had the strongest finger on the pulse on the game-state.

Like, I don't get why I'm being tinfoiled despite that the past two nightkills both had me as a very strong townread and that Zenon and I have a lot of mutual experience with each other.

You don’t get why you’re being tinfoiled?

You don’t really think that, do you? I mean, it’s not like you’ve been the beacon of towniness. I know why I’d be tinfoiled.

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:26 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:21 am At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker
If Wilgy's a villager then the game-state's completely fucked up.

The wolves in this case would be Jack plus one of you or Pyxxy but your paranoia has felt villagery and Pyxxy has had some good spots despite gimmicking, and Pyxxy has had some non-W/Wish interactions with Jack.

It can technically be but with how Jack's playing this endgame I feel like it's just him and Wilgy.

Well if Wilgy is town, I’m turboing you or Alison tomorrow.

And I’m probably not turboing Alison.

I don’t believe both you and Alison to be bad, ergo to have this switch onto Wilgy today when pyxxy would have been a perfectly easy sleepwalk today is suspect.

So agreed- if Wilgy is town, game state is fucked

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:26 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:22 am Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions
Go look at Wilgy's iso. It's 25 posts.

??

I’ve read Wilgy’s iso. What does that have to do with the NK?

Really curious as to who mafia chooses to shoot tonite.

Some tough decisions

At this point, while I appreciate the thunderdome, I’m still nervous about Wilgy.

But with both of you basically crossing off Wilgy on your grocery list and waiting at the checkout counter, Wilgy’s scum equity is almost guaranteed or else town is completely off their rocker

Difference check on Camilla/jack.

Got it

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:59 am Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.

It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:55 am For entertainment purposes, watch the comfort level of Wilgy/Camilla/Jack as that becomes the plan. Cause if that contains all wolves, and I think it does, two of those players know they're about to lose and one thinks he's about to win.

Well, as we’ve seen, nothing is set in stone.

In some ways, non-hammer games give ample opportunity for mafia to squirm out of my hand like that pickle that broke out of jail onto the floor last night (always use a fork, folks, not your hands to grab pickles)

Yeah I think flipping Wilgy will yield more info than falcon did.

If we flip Wilgy and he is town (which I’m not currently believing will happen), preemptively putting out there that the tides were distinctly changed by Alison/Camilla. There is no world in which they are both good to lead that miselim.

If Wilgy is bad, we can basically clear Alison, because bas Alison will have gunned for both of her partners unprompted in separate occasions and I don’t think wolf Alison would think that would logically result in a win for her, DESPITE where she has said she loves to hellbus.

Also happy birthday @Roxy

!

Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 am I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.
In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.

if mafia takes me to the Fx, they will lose. Book it.

(Also please NK me before then so I don’t have to make difficult decisions kthnx)

I see you still haven’t voted, Jack

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:25 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:37 pm I know Camilla said mafia doesn’t vote for their RB and bounce, but I just painstakingly read through D1 again…this is what I see.

I first voted for pyxxy early.
Porscha ‘parks’ her vote on pyxxy at the 24 hour mark:
Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:01 pm i'm parking vote on pyxxy until he play game

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:07 pm google says I have to vote her in a mafia game as punishment so if pyxxy ever comes back today then you all know what I am doing next
so here, I think she is referring to tutuu, her pet clown.

Here’s the rub- pyxxy DOES show up and makes posts and reads, and Porscha NEVER mentions pyxxy again, or even interacts with pyxxy. That’s bonkers to me.

Porscha made her last post at 1:20p, almost 4 hours before eod.
At this time, Wilgy had just voted for her a few hours before, in an apparent 3-3 porscha/Wilgy tie, to make it 4-3. Tutuu tied it up again an hour before EoD.

It wasn’t until then that pyxxy showed up to make a flurry of desperate posts, where he ultimately (almost begrudgingly) self preserved onto Porscha.

So in terms of optics:
-Porscha seemingly forgot about her pyxxy vote, or else made a conscious decision not to come back to it, but at the same time, Porscha was in the lead 4-3 when she bounced. If pyxxy is her partner, what difference would voting elsewhere accomplish?
-Wilgy, as his 3rd post and with no reasoning, votes for Porscha. If pyxxy is bad, Wilgy voting for Porscha almost takes away all cred I was giving him for that vote.

This all just further reaffirms that I think pyxxy is bad. And if pyxxy is bad, Wilgy totally fits.

Oof I need to get out of my tunnel. I’m definitely in a tunnel right now and am having trouble not just confbiasing myself
This is what I was wanting Camella to give me.

Wilgy/Pyxxy/Camilla is a winning poe.

You can’t be out of POE strictly on the basis that your predecessor is fully compatible. Your contributions since are more helpful, but not enough to give me warm fuzzies in my buzzies

I currently see a world of jack/wilgy

Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:49 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:45 pm If pyxxy is partners with Wilgy, I scratch my head at how Wilgy firmly was in the camp of falcon good, pyxxy bad. I mean, it could just be that falcon was going over regardless so it was just firm-sounding words.

But then he comes into today basically with ‘we need to resolve pyxxy/Scotty, and I think Scotty is good’

Like, what kind of strategy is that from your partner? It’s a bit less believable to me

Yeah, yikes, I think I’m coming around on an angle where I can easily see Wilgy having an agenda, and I’m not as sure with his partner being pyxxy.

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine
I kind of don't think that D3's vote actually means much in the long run since on D3 it was pretty much guaranteed that falcon would've gone over.

Wilgy's posts today have been odd but he also hasn't really tried to push Pyxxy at all as I don't remember him casing or putting a vote on them.

Actually, Wilgy voted for pyxxy in thread about 12 hours ago, but didn’t vote in the poll.

And gunning for pyxxy is basically all Wilgy has done today

If pyxxy is partners with Wilgy, I scratch my head at how Wilgy firmly was in the camp of falcon good, pyxxy bad. I mean, it could just be that falcon was going over regardless so it was just firm-sounding words.

But then he comes into today basically with ‘we need to resolve pyxxy/Scotty, and I think Scotty is good’

Like, what kind of strategy is that from your partner? It’s a bit less believable to me

Yeah, yikes, I think I’m coming around on an angle where I can easily see Wilgy having an agenda, and I’m not as sure with his partner being pyxxy.

[VOTE: drwilgy] aubergine

Now what if pyxxy is good? And let’s go with wilgy as bad.

Why does a bad Wilgy vote for his partner in D1? He had no reads before voting; so he could have easily gone for pyxxy to break the tie.

Two thoughts:
1) he assumed that pyxxy would self preserve and Porscha was going over anyway, so he went for cred
2) Porscha had gotten her pink slip at that point and was in full anti spew, so she told her partner to do his thing for cred

Both could be possible.

The placement of his vote is not as steadfast towny as previously believed

I know Camilla said mafia doesn’t vote for their RB and bounce, but I just painstakingly read through D1 again…this is what I see.

I first voted for pyxxy early.
Porscha ‘parks’ her vote on pyxxy at the 24 hour mark:

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:01 pm i'm parking vote on pyxxy until he play game

Porscha wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2023 5:07 pm google says I have to vote her in a mafia game as punishment so if pyxxy ever comes back today then you all know what I am doing next

so here, I think she is referring to tutuu, her pet clown.

Here’s the rub- pyxxy DOES show up and makes posts and reads, and Porscha NEVER mentions pyxxy again, or even interacts with pyxxy. That’s bonkers to me.

Porscha made her last post at 1:20p, almost 4 hours before eod.
At this time, Wilgy had just voted for her a few hours before, in an apparent 3-3 porscha/Wilgy tie, to make it 4-3. Tutuu tied it up again an hour before EoD.

It wasn’t until then that pyxxy showed up to make a flurry of desperate posts, where he ultimately (almost begrudgingly) self preserved onto Porscha.

So in terms of optics:
-Porscha seemingly forgot about her pyxxy vote, or else made a conscious decision not to come back to it, but at the same time, Porscha was in the lead 4-3 when she bounced. If pyxxy is her partner, what difference would voting elsewhere accomplish?
-Wilgy, as his 3rd post and with no reasoning, votes for Porscha. If pyxxy is bad, Wilgy voting for Porscha almost takes away all cred I was giving him for that vote.

This all just further reaffirms that I think pyxxy is bad. And if pyxxy is bad, Wilgy totally fits.

Oof I need to get out of my tunnel. I’m definitely in a tunnel right now and am having trouble not just confbiasing myself

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

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