The Syndicate

Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:48 pm who removed their vote from Lime Coke rn? Might be crazy and he only hit 5, but I want to give you a townpoint

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:47 pm @Sloonei

I get you want to vote me, but keep me off of L-2 so that SPF gets her legacy reads off please.

Word

Unvoting

[VOTE: lime coke] aubergine

Nothing I have seen this phase has swayed me off of this vote.

Jay is town and I agree with his process.

Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:06 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:00 pm
Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:59 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:57 pm
Dolby wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:45 pm Pushing Sloonei out of everyone in the triad is also whack. And I have no idea why you're pushing him
The "triad" is a confirmed townie, Sloonei, and I. There are two options to push. Sloonei and I have been identical, and you've noted that yourself. Pretending I am an appropriate "pet suspect" while Sloonei is somehow a "wack" suspicion is nonsense.
I'm including Dizzy in this fwiw
Suspecting Jay -- sensible and I literally do
Suspecting Dizzy -- unknown viewpoint
Suspecting Sloonei -- wack

How can these perspectives exist together? I don't believe you.
I expect the default to be different from just "the majority of low posters are evil" without further evaluation of your townreads, and been doing it since the start. Now you have changed your townreads around more than a bit. Lime Coke is one of them. It seems that he got more scrutiny for the main reason that he was the least consensus of your reads, and much of your reevaluation there was directed from external forces.

Is Dyslexicon a reasonable suspect?

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:44 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:41 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am If the team is Lime Coke, falcon, G-Man, and X, does G-Man bus two partners at once in pointing out that Lime Coke could be distancing from Lime Coke in a situation where it looks like Lime Coke will be chopped?
Yeah. If that is the team, G-man was dead on arrival. Distancing needs to happen.
Dead on arrival with few people having any intention of voting him.

POE.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:38 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:34 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:31 am I assume Sloonei is voting a scumread?
I voted SoA last night to highlight him as a topic of discussion. He has not been around since, so
Well done. Mission successfully failed.

I can't believe how much pressure they'll feel to address that one vote when he gets back.

It is not a “pressure” vote. It is a way of bookmarking the player as a name to be discussed.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:36 am If the team is Lime Coke, falcon, G-Man, and X, does G-Man bus two partners at once in pointing out that Lime Coke could be distancing from Lime Coke in a situation where it looks like Lime Coke will be chopped?

Yeah. If that is the team, G-man was dead on arrival. Distancing needs to happen.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:32 am Does anyone specifically townread either Dolby or Lime Coke? Those two players seem to be consensus scumreads, or at least exist in everyone's POE's, except for each others.

Dolby has a vibe read of Lime Coke, and Lime Coke has Dolby just outside his POE.

I have had a light town read on dolby but with the POE where it is, I am losing confidence in that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:31 am I assume Sloonei is voting a scumread?

I voted SoA last night to highlight him as a topic of discussion. He has not been around since, so

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:17 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:58 am I am increasingly confident about Lime Coke.
I don't listen to people who aren't voting their scum reads. But yeah, Lime Coke is probably mafia.

My vote will be on Lime Coke when it matters. There is no need for it to be on him at this moment.

I am increasingly confident about Lime Coke.

ilario wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:24 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:24 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:18 pm but in fairness, he also caught me in goc 2019.
sorry i worded that poorly

i meant, who here has caught jjj when he was a wolf
i know, that is what i was answering. i caught him in those two games.

the latter of the two just happened to be multiball where we were both mafia on opposite teams.
Can you go into what he did in those two games that made him look scummy to you? What’s the differences between his townplay and scum game ?
Not without digging into the archives. Mountain Mafia was more than a couple years ago. If my foggy memory is correct, there was an instance where I fundamentally disagreed with an argument he was making, and that was the final nail in the coffin. But I can’t recall much more than that, and I would not give that game too much weight given that it was so long ago.

My thought process when I caught him in the multiball game was more or less “Jay is playing like me. I am mafia. Therefore Jay is also mafia.” So not super helpful here.
Jay is playing like you this game, so if he flips mafia should I just assume that makes you mafia?

of course

Look into a few chur

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:12 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:11 am i've gotta go cook, but all i wanna do right now is refresh the thread, lol. it sucks that i don't have more time because i think this game is very solvable with the right dialogue
I kinda feel like I'm fucking this up but yeah it's fine.

Let’s look into a few where you are chopped and flip town. What does your ghost recommend we do?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:11 am i've gotta go cook, but all i wanna do right now is refresh the thread, lol. it sucks that i don't have more time because i think this game is very solvable with the right dialogue

u done gud

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:40 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:32 am I just grabbed my whole-ass phone hand and pinned it like a snake to prevent it from snap voting Lime Coke.
Update:

My snake hand is still pinned, but it is shrieking like some kind of horrible banshee and snapping at my face. It wants the phone back. It’s pissed. I don’t know how long I can keep it at bay.

My vote is already there in spirit. The looming hammer is the only thing keeping it off.

G-Man wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:20 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:15 am Why am I town but not Jay?
Tin foil may play a role, but it's a small role for now.

Also, you didn't make the kind of pingy posts that Jay did. Some things just felt off.

Besides, I've already nailed you as a baddie once and you haven't made those same mistakes yet.

I do not agree that those “pingy” posts you highlighted from him are concerning or unusual. The last one is one that specifically reinforced my town read on him.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:22 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:21 am
Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:17 am Illario spends a lot of time trying to get JJJ, Sloonei, and Dizzy all to come under some scrutiny. This could be based as town because Illario tries to find deep wolves in most games.
Why does mafia ilario do this here?
I said underneath it that he would basically try to pull stronger towns into the POE to have MLs available.

Since they're kinda coring up if all of them are town.

He wouldn't want to be boxed in so he would try to force some room.

I did not feel like he pushed hard enough for that to be the case. And beyond that, I thought his suspicion of me looked authentic. But let’s ask @ilario how he currently feels anout sloonei/jjj/dizzy.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:17 am Illario spends a lot of time trying to get JJJ, Sloonei, and Dizzy all to come under some scrutiny. This could be based as town because Illario tries to find deep wolves in most games.

Why does mafia ilario do this here?

Marmot wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:15 am I really enjoyed G-Man comparing everryone to old time Syndicate players. Good memories (mostly).

I chuckled at “accessible Vompatti” for TSP. It makes sense.

Why am I town but not Jay?

Questions on top of questions on top of questions

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:34 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:33 pm
NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:32 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:31 pm I don’t know if targets even matter here, but maybe you should share your Night 1 fruit recipient NAA.
Fruit recipients don't matter for any reason other than watcher yeah?
They can help confirm you if they’re aware they receive fruit.
See set up.

Then yeah, fruit vendor exists purely to appear in watcher reports.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:32 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:31 pm I don’t know if targets even matter here, but maybe you should share your Night 1 fruit recipient NAA.
Fruit recipients don't matter for any reason other than watcher yeah?

They can help confirm you if they’re aware they receive fruit.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:26 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:24 pm
ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:18 pm but in fairness, he also caught me in goc 2019.
sorry i worded that poorly

i meant, who here has caught jjj when he was a wolf
i know, that is what i was answering. i caught him in those two games.

the latter of the two just happened to be multiball where we were both mafia on opposite teams.
Can you go into what he did in those two games that made him look scummy to you? What’s the differences between his townplay and scum game ?

Not without digging into the archives. Mountain Mafia was more than a couple years ago. If my foggy memory is correct, there was an instance where I fundamentally disagreed with an argument he was making, and that was the final nail in the coffin. But I can’t recall much more than that, and I would not give that game too much weight given that it was so long ago.

My thought process when I caught him in the multiball game was more or less “Jay is playing like me. I am mafia. Therefore Jay is also mafia.” So not super helpful here.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:45 am i have a highly specific thought about limecoke that is looking increasingly likely to be true the longer that this game goes on
i don't know if i ever explained this, but my thought at that stage of the game was: "limecoke is a wolf that is TMI'ing sloonei as a villager in an attempt to replicate his town meta"

if we live in a world where lime coke is a wolf, i think that sloonei is spewed town

Groovy

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:14 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:45 am i have a highly specific thought about limecoke that is looking increasingly likely to be true the longer that this game goes on
i don't know if i ever explained this, but my thought at that stage of the game was: "limecoke is a wolf that is TMI'ing sloonei as a villager in an attempt to replicate his town meta"

if we live in a world where lime coke is a wolf, i think that sloonei is spewed town

Groovy

I have no explicit reason to suspect Son of Anarch, but my lack of familiarity with him means I’m unable to confidently declare that he is town. I think his lack of familiarity with us holds him back from diving into this game more confidently as well. No fault of his own.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:43 pm this might be out of pocket for me to say as someone with little experience with marmot, but i have been getting the impression (in the last few pages especially) that marmot is outside of his wolfrange. am i right to feel that way?

Probably true, but I believe his efforts.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:45 pm Like if he was a wolf I think he would try to come up with a more better and logical reason than to call me cute and cuddly as a reason to push me

Mafia usually want their logic to seem more “reasonable” and agreeable.

This is a valid point, but to counter it: when falcon has a meta of being contrarian/contesting everyone, I think he is less likely to give a crap about this sort of thing as mafia.

The Wire was a thing, but idk who was responsible for our mutual downfall there.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:18 pm but in fairness, he also caught me in goc 2019.
sorry i worded that poorly

i meant, who here has caught jjj when he was a wolf

i know, that is what i was answering. i caught him in those two games.

the latter of the two just happened to be multiball where we were both mafia on opposite teams.

whoops i dropped something

but in fairness, he also caught me in goc 2019.

ilario wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:12 pm I have an honest question:

Who here has actually caught jjj as a wolf?
I assume the only answer is probably sloonei given that jjj mentioned his last wolf game was 2.5 years ago. So yeah, idk I don’t feel very assured about people’s reads on him, especially because he was hyper aware of the fact that it’s been so long since he wolfed I don’t think he’s mentioned this fact in any of the other games I’ve seen him as town. The self consciousness of that fact alone pinged me somewhat

Mountain Mafia and GoC 2019 are the most recent examples, but they're not very recent.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:14 am camptown races a sing this song, doo dah, doo dah

he came here to sing camptown races [sic] this morning, but that was it.

such a profound impact with so few words.

... has TSP even been here since he claimed? he would be a useful voice.

it smells like septad in here.

@Son of Anarch never completed the mini trustfall i had asked him for yesterday. that's a good place to start this dialogue.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:22 am
Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:19 am Well, I'd say that Lime Coke's got himself riled up in a way I don't see from wolves too often in addition to the thread reads I've stated. I guess another good point, if I had to sheep Jimmy here, is that a lot of Lime Coke's reads if he's mafia are incredibly boxin' unless his teammates are deep, so although I don't think that's a concrete reason to town read someone as inexperienced wolves often box themselves, it's still somethin' I mostly agree with would be a small point in Lime Coke's favor. As for you, the biggest reasons I can think t'town read you is that I town read Jimmy and he town reads you pretty strongly, and you've had a few strong thoughts I think would be a bit difficult for a wolf to fake, such as making it a point several times that you are attemptin' to make more covert reads/plays.

For Lime Coke, I just still feel like the dude is underwhelmin' in his reads and it feels like coastin'. His opening read like nervous energy to me and he seems to be trying hard to appeal to specific people. For you, it's mostly your handlin' of Jimmy's slot I find a bit weird. I know you explained earlier, but not wantin' to out a town read on him when he was gettin' a bit of heat even though it was obvious was a bit concernin' to me and felt weirdly coy. I also feel like you've played around this triad thing kind of like how I would as wolf, but I get that that's not exactly a fair read.
For each of us (myself & Lime Coke) which argument feels stronger: the town argument or the mafia argument?

No urgency, answer after you've got some sleep in your system.

[VOTE: son of anarch] aubergine

for emphasis. let's start a dialogue.

marmot is town

As always, my goal for today is to vote for the player I believe is most likely to flip mafia.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:14 pm If we're going by Jay's solve of Dolby, G-Man, Lime Coke, [Falcon or SoA], then I would still imagine that G-man makes the most sense to perform the kill, but perhaps he would have been absent and therefore not allowed/able to carry it out.
Do you have any immediate concerns or doubts about that solve? I don't want to get too deep up my own arse.

All five of those names are perfectly good suspects on their own and I trust the process you used to get there, but I am certainly not about to charge ahead under the assumption that the game is over and we've already won.

I was just trying to make an argument for the sake of the discussion about saving the potential N1 poisoner for later.

If we're going by Jay's solve of Dolby, G-Man, Lime Coke, [Falcon or SoA], then I would still imagine that G-man makes the most sense to perform the kill, but perhaps he would have been absent and therefore not allowed/able to carry it out.

no fruit here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:47 pm Part of me wonders if we're all too easy on Dizzy. Our town reads follow the same general pattern, and I feel the read as much as y'all seem to feel it. If we're objective though, maybe it's not the most respectful of his mafia skill.

This may be less about Dizzy's alignment and more about trustfall philosophy.

Sounds like someone's working on a distrustfall. dizzytrustfall.

I'm holding Dizzy in the "review in case of emergency" position. He's a comfortable town read, and I'm sure I could substantiate that if I dove into this posts. But if we find ourselves in a dire situation and have not found enough success, I would be forced to reconsider this position.

dolby is one that I have been holding onto a slight townread on for substantiated reasons for a little bit, but i'm not sold on that read by any means. I didn't struggle to come up with my reason in the trustfall exercise, but that was because it was something specific which i had already established. It's not a super strong case. He's with SoA (and I'll say Johanna) in the class of players I need to develop my read on.

I felt quite good about ilario for vague reasons coming into this. I skimmed his ISO to jog my memory, and came away feeling like the general town reads we all have there are not misguided.

SoA is the name I struggled with most relative to my expectations coming in. That probably means he deserves a closer inspection.

I have the least faith in my argument for Lime Coke, though that may be a bias in favor of recent thread trends. The Falcon Meta argument also isn't all that strong.

I had an easier time coming up with arguments for Marmot than I would have expected. I actually had to cut myself off for the sake of brevity. There was more.

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