If that's your view, then I appreciate your conviction. Saves everyone a lot of hassle.Syn wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:04 amidk why you'd think that, I have quickhammered in every single F3 I've ever been inTonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 11:48 pm tsp in spec chat: “nah Syn won’t quickhammer, he’s smarter than that”
You have let me down
I largely find them to be wastes of time
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Return to “Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)”
- Mon May 24, 2021 2:08 am
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:49 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:30 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:16 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
Thanks for the game Mac. I appreciate a down-to-earth heist and also a borderline free win
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:13 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 4)
I appreciate that! And in a roundabout way, I've never done less for a mafia win.hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:07 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 7:06 pm *carries hollowkatt off of the field to the sounds of a roaring crowd*thank you! You did a lot of heavy lifting when you were here and for that, sincerely, thank you!
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:07 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
I knew you had it in you my friend. Never in doubt.
- Sun May 23, 2021 7:06 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
*carries hollowkatt off of the field to the sounds of a roaring crowd*
- Sun May 16, 2021 6:28 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
SPF is right about one thing in that lengthy exchange with Marmot -- waffling about on one's mafia teammates is the lowest-level kind of overt connection that most players with enough experience and/or bravado will typically avoid. That notion can be broadened just beyond the context of just her treatment of Alison/myself and to the roster at large.
- Sun May 16, 2021 6:24 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
- Sun May 16, 2021 6:23 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
also the black album is exclusively cheese
- Sun May 16, 2021 6:16 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Dizzy, I’ve been treated like a foregone conclusion by at least four people. You’re not the only one.
Don’t waste a vig shot on me. I am town, and I can only hope folks will be ready to listen next time. This thread is a case study in intra-town toxicity, and it will be an even bigger problem whenever I’m dead. Too many folks are not at all ready to contend with this game after I flip despite my best efforts to encourage broader solving. It doesn’t have to be that way, and we can be better. Give me the dang chance and I can do whatever I can to make y’all listen.
Also Nanook’s posts suck and I’ve not seen any convincing sell that he’s town. If not Tony shoot him.
Don’t waste a vig shot on me. I am town, and I can only hope folks will be ready to listen next time. This thread is a case study in intra-town toxicity, and it will be an even bigger problem whenever I’m dead. Too many folks are not at all ready to contend with this game after I flip despite my best efforts to encourage broader solving. It doesn’t have to be that way, and we can be better. Give me the dang chance and I can do whatever I can to make y’all listen.
Also Nanook’s posts suck and I’ve not seen any convincing sell that he’s town. If not Tony shoot him.
- Sun May 16, 2021 5:20 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I’m being pulled away and may not be back by the deadline. I suggest shooting Tony.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:52 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
[VOTE:
Invictus] aubergine
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:35 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
@Gavial it'd be really swell to know what you saw from Tony that you thought were never-mafia power role covers.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:32 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I discussed that in my SPF review. Whether it was "warranted" is debatable, but whether it was "productive" is not -- it ensured Invictus could become a confirmed mafioso instead of a probable mafioso. That goes a long way, and might on its own power be the difference between me opening my own entry into the game with interactive reviews or instead just making posts.Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:28 pm The cover didn't bother me at first. It wasn't until my earlier interactions with SPF that I grew wary of her, and bothered to look back at her posts. That's when I noticed other things that stood out to me.
Do you think her cover was warranted and/or believable?
I think it's reasonably believable because I have seen it before. She did the same thing in our champs game last year to a fake claiming mafioso. He claimed JOAT, she strongly protested in a way that was suggestive of a counter, and then he died. She wasn't a JOAT.
If the inspiration here is predominantly her relationship with my slot, then I really hope you and any others will chill out with that stuff and think about the game one step at a time.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:25 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
At the least I am glad this thread has woken up. Moribund mega-chops are bad.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:24 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
There's a tendency, though less in recent memory, for Syndicate long-timers to respond to power role cover with suspicion (or out themselves outright) -- it's a product of being unused to role claiming and the strategic wrinkles associated with it. I know you've played your share of claim-friendly games; I just also know you had a long hiatus that was preceded by an era on this site where those things were still very relevant.Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:23 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:21 pm I find myself wondering, Marmot, if you're influenced by the old-timey Syndicate no-claims lore where things like "cover" didn't exist. Do you think that's plausible?
I don't know what you're asking me here.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:21 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I find myself wondering, Marmot, if you're influenced by the old-timey Syndicate no-claims lore where things like "cover" didn't exist. Do you think that's plausible?
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:20 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Regarding Alison:
One gripe is that she gave Invictus a frivolous town read on the basis of overblown chatter about his initial RVS vote on Dizzy. I can't read Alison's mind. I do suspect what happened here though was enthusiasm about generating early town reads. She has taken more to the raw POE approach, quite like the one I often favor, in recent memory and that has been reflected in her recent town play. This was probably an example of the same. By whatever process, she felt like she could town read Invictus and moved from there. Had she played longer I have no idea what she'd have done with that -- if she's like me though, being wrong about an early Day 1 read is not a big deal -- making the read is still valuable for thread development. She was wrong, oh well.
Otherwise her commentary about Invictus is essentially nothing. She didn't dwell on the read and just played the game to the extent that she could. I can understand folks having doubts about the interaction, but that it's being treated as a slam dunk by so many folks is good evidence of confirmation bias clouding the game. That's on everyone else to sort out; I am not going to spend more of my limited time concerned with that. She's town. I'm town. You'll find it if you let yourself find it (the general "you").
One gripe is that she gave Invictus a frivolous town read on the basis of overblown chatter about his initial RVS vote on Dizzy. I can't read Alison's mind. I do suspect what happened here though was enthusiasm about generating early town reads. She has taken more to the raw POE approach, quite like the one I often favor, in recent memory and that has been reflected in her recent town play. This was probably an example of the same. By whatever process, she felt like she could town read Invictus and moved from there. Had she played longer I have no idea what she'd have done with that -- if she's like me though, being wrong about an early Day 1 read is not a big deal -- making the read is still valuable for thread development. She was wrong, oh well.
Otherwise her commentary about Invictus is essentially nothing. She didn't dwell on the read and just played the game to the extent that she could. I can understand folks having doubts about the interaction, but that it's being treated as a slam dunk by so many folks is good evidence of confirmation bias clouding the game. That's on everyone else to sort out; I am not going to spend more of my limited time concerned with that. She's town. I'm town. You'll find it if you let yourself find it (the general "you").
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:12 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
You're certainly not required to do it if you don't want to.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pmNo, I won't do that. I hate trustfalls. It doesn't help me at all. It brings wifom upon me and gives scum wiggle room. Especially if the scum is good at talking themselves out of tight spots. I've won scum games myself by just posting, analysing and contenting-ing the fuck out of town. I'm pretty sure Nanook is town here. I've never been wrong in reading him so far.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pmThat's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:11 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Gavial honored my request to interact with my assessments, so I will honor his request to look at Alison. I won't "analyze" my own slot, but I will at least briefly see what's up and if there's anything I have to say about it -- including Dizzy's gripes.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:10 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Okay. I'll also note that given my review of the scenario it would technically be to LC's detriment to indicate he was not under threat of being chopped, so perhaps that's a nice wifom nugget for him here.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:08 pmLet me put it this way: The chances of LC being a yeet was far from zero. There was a day that could've suddenly taken a turn. I don't at all think Invictius encourages my suspicion on LC and also votes LC himself if they are teammates, when he has enough town cred and enough game in him to just not. Again, he doesn't bus for the fun of it.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:57 pmOkay. That runs counter to what LC suggested, so I'd appreciate anyone else giving me a perspective here. It might be an eye-of-the-beholder thing.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:09 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Just list every living player in the game and indicate the strongest reasons you can think of to call them civilians.Marmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:07 pmJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pmThat's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.
Can you explain a trustfall again? I've seen them done before, but never done one myself.
Sloonei popularized the thing long ago. I find it's a very good way to dig into our own world views and tease apart well-founded reads from overcooked vibes reads.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:08 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Agreed. I'm wondering what inspired you to ask Gavial that question
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:04 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
That's kind of why I suggested a trustfall. Nanook could be town. I think we need to have some kind of standard for what that read is at this point in the game. I don't have the full game behind me to influence my perspective, so it's purely an interactive detail. If there's something else about him that is important I will listen.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm Nanook is town though. I know I had reasons. Probably derps and stuff too unfortunately.
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
- Sun May 16, 2021 4:01 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Based on interactions with Invictus, in light of Marmot's claim:
Dyslexicon
hollowkatt
staypositivefriend
DkKoba/Syn
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime
Nanook
Names within tiers are not ordered.
Dyslexicon
hollowkatt
staypositivefriend
DkKoba/Syn
Long Con
TonyStarkPrime
Nanook
Names within tiers are not ordered.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I said I was going backwards.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:57 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Okay. That runs counter to what LC suggested, so I'd appreciate anyone else giving me a perspective here. It might be an eye-of-the-beholder thing.Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:54 pmHe was D1. Game state felt like either him or Falcon to be yeeted from my point of view.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?
Marmot claimed vig now, so hey. But maybe stupid reason to clear him: He immediately followed Invictius on his RVS vote on me. Yeah, Marmot is maybe a player who would do that, most teammates would probably spread votes. But if Marmot is actually vig, then we're golden anyway.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:54 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Interactions of Invictus and Long Con
From Invictus
Orange: Bookmarking this as the start of Invictus giving LC crap. Prior to this the material had been non-descript nothingness. So I'll just follow the progression.
Generally, I think Long Con, when civilian, is one of the more token "easy targets" especially for people who don't know him already -- he plays with individualism, an obstinate tone, and doesn't concern himself much with prevailing anything. In that light, there's a decent chance Invictus pulled LC out of a hat as the most obvious "guy I can shade" available (as the off-wagon voting semi-low poster) -- that would be to LC's credit. It's a presumptuous notion I grant.
That kind of easy smear vibe persists to the yellow thing. Given that LC wasn't an odds-on chop himself I can't say this is clear-cut opportunism, but gun to my head that's my impression. Invictus needed someone to poop on, and LC seemed like the right name.
~~~
From Long Con
This adds nothing to the interaction of note.
~~~
Conclusion
There's a relative dearth of things to talk about, even if from the Invictus side those things are of significance. I'd be more comfortable if I had more content to develop my perspectives. Gun to my head Long Con is not Invictus's teammate.
From Invictus
Spoiler: show
Orange: Bookmarking this as the start of Invictus giving LC crap. Prior to this the material had been non-descript nothingness. So I'll just follow the progression.
Generally, I think Long Con, when civilian, is one of the more token "easy targets" especially for people who don't know him already -- he plays with individualism, an obstinate tone, and doesn't concern himself much with prevailing anything. In that light, there's a decent chance Invictus pulled LC out of a hat as the most obvious "guy I can shade" available (as the off-wagon voting semi-low poster) -- that would be to LC's credit. It's a presumptuous notion I grant.
That kind of easy smear vibe persists to the yellow thing. Given that LC wasn't an odds-on chop himself I can't say this is clear-cut opportunism, but gun to my head that's my impression. Invictus needed someone to poop on, and LC seemed like the right name.
~~~
From Long Con
Spoiler: show
This adds nothing to the interaction of note.
~~~
Conclusion
There's a relative dearth of things to talk about, even if from the Invictus side those things are of significance. I'd be more comfortable if I had more content to develop my perspectives. Gun to my head Long Con is not Invictus's teammate.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:38 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
SPF retracted the claim
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:38 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
ThanksLong Con wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:36 pmI think it was only Invictus that scum read me, I think I had mostly Town reads going on.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:36 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
okay, well that'd explain your displeasureMarmot wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:31 pmYesJaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?
I'm also the real vig and plan on shooting her tonight.
I spoke about that moment in my review of SPF, and about why I think it can be a town move from her given my experiences playing with her. I'd appreciate if you could take a quick look and share any gripes if you have them.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:30 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Knowing this would help me to interpret the Invictus/LC interactions.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:21 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Can anyone tell me whether Long Con was ever a viable wagon on Day 1 or the start of Day 2?
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:13 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Interactions of Invictus and Marmot
From Invictus
Orange: I highlight this post just as a bookmark to refer to everything leading up to it within the spoiler. The early character of this interaction is rather beige, wherein Invictus is the Asker of Many Questions relating to Marmot without meaningful follow-up or direction. Meh.
Yellow: This is where the tide begins to shift and Invictus adopts a more concretely unfavorable stance on Marmot. It may be noteworthy that Invictus didn't entirely piggyback SPF in this moment and instead opted for the "I have suspicions for different reasons" angle -- in that way one cannot assert he's just feeling safe heaping with SPF (this would only apply if SPF is town). He clarified the mafia read at SPF's prod without further expansion. It's not incompatible with distancing. It doesn't have to be distancing. It exists.
Side note: the town strategy Invictus describes in his last post in there is a refreshing one to see from someone else. It's basically the subject of my video in my signature. Too bad he's fake this time.
~~~
From Marmot
Not much here beyond blank Marmot wifom of a sort only Marmot consistently achieves.
Whatever rules one may apply to things like "naked votes in RVS" or "claiming scum facetiously" -- don't bother with Marmot. He'll do anything as any alignment if he thinks it'll be fun. The general theme continues: none of this has to be teammate stuff, but it can be.
~~~
Conclusion
This sure is a Marmot review. I cannot pretend to have much confidence about this either way. Most importantly I cannot dissociate them, so they can be teammates.
From Invictus
Spoiler: show
Orange: I highlight this post just as a bookmark to refer to everything leading up to it within the spoiler. The early character of this interaction is rather beige, wherein Invictus is the Asker of Many Questions relating to Marmot without meaningful follow-up or direction. Meh.
Yellow: This is where the tide begins to shift and Invictus adopts a more concretely unfavorable stance on Marmot. It may be noteworthy that Invictus didn't entirely piggyback SPF in this moment and instead opted for the "I have suspicions for different reasons" angle -- in that way one cannot assert he's just feeling safe heaping with SPF (this would only apply if SPF is town). He clarified the mafia read at SPF's prod without further expansion. It's not incompatible with distancing. It doesn't have to be distancing. It exists.
Side note: the town strategy Invictus describes in his last post in there is a refreshing one to see from someone else. It's basically the subject of my video in my signature. Too bad he's fake this time.
~~~
From Marmot
Spoiler: show
Not much here beyond blank Marmot wifom of a sort only Marmot consistently achieves.
Whatever rules one may apply to things like "naked votes in RVS" or "claiming scum facetiously" -- don't bother with Marmot. He'll do anything as any alignment if he thinks it'll be fun. The general theme continues: none of this has to be teammate stuff, but it can be.
~~~
Conclusion
This sure is a Marmot review. I cannot pretend to have much confidence about this either way. Most importantly I cannot dissociate them, so they can be teammates.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:08 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
It won't be. I just asked right here.Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:07 pmAh I see.JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:06 pmI am analyzing him right now. It's what inspired me to ask.
Looking forward to seeing that mentioned in the analysis of yours.
That's about Marmot and SPF more than it's about Marmot and Invictus.
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:06 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
- Sun May 16, 2021 3:05 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I'm still working that out.Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:04 pmWhy don’t you ask them in scum chat?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm @Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?
BTW, what’s your Readslist?
- Sun May 16, 2021 2:57 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
@Marmot do you believe SPF's counter claim on Invictus was theater?
- Sun May 16, 2021 2:42 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
My first priority must be with the players for whom I don't already have a role card, and that's just the way it's going to be. If I do have time remaining once I have been able to assess those that remain, then I will try to humor what you suggest. Don't expect some big wallpost like these others; that's a giant waste of my time. But I can humor it. While I cannot read Alison's mind, I know something of her view of Mafia and maybe I'll have explanations. I dunno.
- Sun May 16, 2021 2:40 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
That's not what a trustfall means. It's an exercise where you list the best reason(s) you can think of to call every remaining player town. It's a good way to examine one's own biases, because they develop inevitably from any continual game exposure.Gavial wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:34 pmTrustfall? Not trust our TR’s?JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 2:04 pm All y'all with town reads you've developed through the game, I suggest doing a trustfall. Find your bias.
Man your desperate scum eh?
We must have both you and your partner in PoE for sure and your struggling and hoping that there is more wiggle room but jokes on you I’m making a towncore.
TOWNCORE
Gavial
SPF
Hollowcat
Dizzy
TonyStarkPrime
Long Con
Perfect Town Core!
This way there ain’t no way your gonna wiggle!
- Sun May 16, 2021 2:04 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
All y'all with town reads you've developed through the game, I suggest doing a trustfall. Find your bias.
- Sun May 16, 2021 2:01 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I just determined that as of your gripe, I had said your name exactly three times in this thread, twice as tangential mentions when I was discussing DK and once as an ISO link. What are you talking about?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 11:45 pm Yes but you said my name a bunch and that's close enough
- Sun May 16, 2021 1:49 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Interactions of Invictus and Nanook
From Invictus
Orange: There's an early trend here wherein Invictus speaks on behalf of Nanook (or on behalf of Nanook via Long Con), usually to make low-level meta assertions about what he thinks Nanook is like. The assertions are generally valid; that is, Nanook is indeed one to be less concerned with assessing every player early in a game and doesn't care about being fluffy sometimes. In that light, this literal assessment would be innocuous as an overall read of "NAI",
Yellow: which brings me to this post. Nanook was one of Invictus's five blued-out town reads, and compared to the others players featured in that group that rationale provided previously is pretty light. It's essentially what I referenced in the previous point. So his name stands out here.
The remainder of this is generally soft material -- musing over Nanook's playstyle, halfway standing in his defense when DK was cranky, and setup chatter. None of that means much to me.
~~~
From Nanook
There's not a lot new going on in this set of interactions. Nanook did town read Invictus. Okay. In classically Nanook style I don't know why and can only wonder -- perhaps he'll expand. I have very little to say about this stuff.
~~~
Conclusion
This is a dry interaction. From the Invictus side I have some questions. From the Nanook side I don't have much of anything. I have no reason to dissociate these two. Nanook can be Invictus's teammate.
From Invictus
Spoiler: show
Orange: There's an early trend here wherein Invictus speaks on behalf of Nanook (or on behalf of Nanook via Long Con), usually to make low-level meta assertions about what he thinks Nanook is like. The assertions are generally valid; that is, Nanook is indeed one to be less concerned with assessing every player early in a game and doesn't care about being fluffy sometimes. In that light, this literal assessment would be innocuous as an overall read of "NAI",
Yellow: which brings me to this post. Nanook was one of Invictus's five blued-out town reads, and compared to the others players featured in that group that rationale provided previously is pretty light. It's essentially what I referenced in the previous point. So his name stands out here.
The remainder of this is generally soft material -- musing over Nanook's playstyle, halfway standing in his defense when DK was cranky, and setup chatter. None of that means much to me.
~~~
From Nanook
Spoiler: show
There's not a lot new going on in this set of interactions. Nanook did town read Invictus. Okay. In classically Nanook style I don't know why and can only wonder -- perhaps he'll expand. I have very little to say about this stuff.
~~~
Conclusion
This is a dry interaction. From the Invictus side I have some questions. From the Nanook side I don't have much of anything. I have no reason to dissociate these two. Nanook can be Invictus's teammate.
- Sun May 16, 2021 1:19 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Interactions of Invictus and staypositivefriend
From Invictus
Orange: I'm referring to the full exchange of quotes ending with the orange blob. This is a meaty pile of text that I think should provide some promise with regard to meaningful interpretation. Some of the language Invictus uses, e.g. "SPF can have a slight town read", the classic "fair enough", and what looks like a loaded question beginning with "what did you think about him backtracking..." -- it gives me an impression of someone talking about and to a player with whom he doesn't already have a relationship in the game. Rather it looks like he has chosen SPF as a sort of solving springboard to involve himself and look the part, which would be a decent bit to her credit. I am not super confident about that, but it's still my perspective.
The intermediary interactions here are uniformly pro-SPF by way of strong town reads, reiterated town reads, agreement, etc. I wouldn't say it all moves the needle much as it's an extension of the previous point.
Yellow: I could probably reduce the entire interaction to this moment if I wanted to. I have still done the review for the sake of due diligence, but I'll speak more about this from the SPF side.
~~~
From staypositivefriend
The general trend here is two-fold: SPF tends to town read Invictus while also continually examining Invictus. At face value I appreciate the latter, and it's what I'd expect of SPF (someone I consider to be one of the more conscientious solvers around) -- even with a read established, she isn't finished establishing it. That makes it easier to forgive her read having been the wrong one.
Orange: This is a more charitable approach to Invictus than I'd like. This is a good thing for SPF to expand on if not already done -- what about the Invictus playstyle do you suppose would create this bias?
Yellow: I return to this, and the interaction of these two really boils down to the claim and counter-claim. Foremost: I have seen this before. SPF did something very similar to poor Mellow Ezlo in S7G6 when he fake claimed. From that perspective, I appreciate this moment -- particularly given that I was not in the game yet so it couldn't have been done to schmooze anyone from Game 6 who might remember that. Moreover, if we follow the progression of SPF's read and consider her as a teammate of Invictus, I struggle to make sense of why this would exist. She had given him town credit, so she has an out to at least entertain the vigilante claim for a moment before just CCing him to oblivion. She didn't do that, to her credit. So if we want to call her his teammate, we're forced to dwell in a realm of pure wifom -- the two of them specifically planned this claim and counter for theater. That's not impossible, but nor is it something that strikes me as the most likely scenario. I am not sure there's a good reason to say that's what happened beyond pure conjecture.
~~~
Conclusion
What I like most here is that, while I am tempted to reduce the interaction to just the claim and counter alone, given this review I don't necessarily need to do so. The rest of it trends in a direction that I like anyway, so I don't find myself contending with some significant conflict that brings the wifom theory out to the forefront. I would be surprised if SPF is an Invictus teammate. Given that this read is inherently more wifom-driven than others, I always welcome discussion.
From Invictus
Spoiler: show
Orange: I'm referring to the full exchange of quotes ending with the orange blob. This is a meaty pile of text that I think should provide some promise with regard to meaningful interpretation. Some of the language Invictus uses, e.g. "SPF can have a slight town read", the classic "fair enough", and what looks like a loaded question beginning with "what did you think about him backtracking..." -- it gives me an impression of someone talking about and to a player with whom he doesn't already have a relationship in the game. Rather it looks like he has chosen SPF as a sort of solving springboard to involve himself and look the part, which would be a decent bit to her credit. I am not super confident about that, but it's still my perspective.
The intermediary interactions here are uniformly pro-SPF by way of strong town reads, reiterated town reads, agreement, etc. I wouldn't say it all moves the needle much as it's an extension of the previous point.
Yellow: I could probably reduce the entire interaction to this moment if I wanted to. I have still done the review for the sake of due diligence, but I'll speak more about this from the SPF side.
~~~
From staypositivefriend
Spoiler: show
The general trend here is two-fold: SPF tends to town read Invictus while also continually examining Invictus. At face value I appreciate the latter, and it's what I'd expect of SPF (someone I consider to be one of the more conscientious solvers around) -- even with a read established, she isn't finished establishing it. That makes it easier to forgive her read having been the wrong one.
Orange: This is a more charitable approach to Invictus than I'd like. This is a good thing for SPF to expand on if not already done -- what about the Invictus playstyle do you suppose would create this bias?
Yellow: I return to this, and the interaction of these two really boils down to the claim and counter-claim. Foremost: I have seen this before. SPF did something very similar to poor Mellow Ezlo in S7G6 when he fake claimed. From that perspective, I appreciate this moment -- particularly given that I was not in the game yet so it couldn't have been done to schmooze anyone from Game 6 who might remember that. Moreover, if we follow the progression of SPF's read and consider her as a teammate of Invictus, I struggle to make sense of why this would exist. She had given him town credit, so she has an out to at least entertain the vigilante claim for a moment before just CCing him to oblivion. She didn't do that, to her credit. So if we want to call her his teammate, we're forced to dwell in a realm of pure wifom -- the two of them specifically planned this claim and counter for theater. That's not impossible, but nor is it something that strikes me as the most likely scenario. I am not sure there's a good reason to say that's what happened beyond pure conjecture.
~~~
Conclusion
What I like most here is that, while I am tempted to reduce the interaction to just the claim and counter alone, given this review I don't necessarily need to do so. The rest of it trends in a direction that I like anyway, so I don't find myself contending with some significant conflict that brings the wifom theory out to the forefront. I would be surprised if SPF is an Invictus teammate. Given that this read is inherently more wifom-driven than others, I always welcome discussion.
- Sun May 16, 2021 12:43 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I can already see the beginnings of a beautiful chat.
- Sun May 16, 2021 12:40 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
If you're town, I hope you'll consider whether you're engaging in confirmation bias. I'm JaggedJimmyJay. I solve. This is how I have replaced into games for years, especially when a mafioso is already confirmed for me to work with -- it's much more useful to me than reading a thread front-to-back and trying to grasp context a week late.Long Con wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 12:28 pm I don't want you to be cranky. I just saw you putting the great effort in, and hat it meant to me was "if anyone can save this doomed team, it's me, I'll dive right into Real Solving and change all the minds!" Which is of course the right move of a skilled player, and respectable, I just thought I owed you the truth.
What I would most appreciate is at least a cursory look at my TL;DR conclusions. I am not mafia, and that means much of the prevailing POE is flawed for at least one slot. I have a unique advantage from that posture of being able to solve without dealing with solving JJJ. This means I am likely to derive suspect(s) other people don't have. So let's talk about them. How about Tony -- please tell me what you think of Tony.
- Sun May 16, 2021 12:34 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
Interactions of Invictus and TonyStarkPrime
From Invictus
From Invictus's side this interaction is pretty boring. There's nothing here that stands out to me as indicative of anything either way; it's all soft and directionless. If I want to stretch hard I might suggest the "why would you want to chop town?" is an easy bit of shade to hurl when you are looking for a place to do so (in this context a civilian Tony). I have little confidence in that view.
~~~
From TonyStarkPrime
Tony seemed to have Invictus as a town read up to his being outed. That's not necessarily a problem on its own power, though I have less understanding of what led to that viewpoint than I would like to have. Tony doesn't seem to have detailed that as far as I can tell. We're left to take it or leave it at face value. On balance log it as some degree of support for the mafioso.
~~~
Conclusion
This interaction is a sleepy one. While there's not a shortage of posts, there's a shortage of interest with respect to any alignment assessment. This makes me want to take naps. Tony can be Invictus's teammate.
From Invictus
Spoiler: show
From Invictus's side this interaction is pretty boring. There's nothing here that stands out to me as indicative of anything either way; it's all soft and directionless. If I want to stretch hard I might suggest the "why would you want to chop town?" is an easy bit of shade to hurl when you are looking for a place to do so (in this context a civilian Tony). I have little confidence in that view.
~~~
From TonyStarkPrime
Spoiler: show
Tony seemed to have Invictus as a town read up to his being outed. That's not necessarily a problem on its own power, though I have less understanding of what led to that viewpoint than I would like to have. Tony doesn't seem to have detailed that as far as I can tell. We're left to take it or leave it at face value. On balance log it as some degree of support for the mafioso.
~~~
Conclusion
This interaction is a sleepy one. While there's not a shortage of posts, there's a shortage of interest with respect to any alignment assessment. This makes me want to take naps. Tony can be Invictus's teammate.
- Sun May 16, 2021 12:16 pm
- Forum: Previous Heists
- Topic: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Game Over- Mafia win)
- Replies: 1993
- Views: 34068
Re: Bluey: The Werewolf Game - Game Thread (Day 2)
I'm returning to my analyses, and I'm reversing the alphabet. That burned me when I analyzed Beelzebub since both mafia were at the end of the alphabet and I never got to them (or it would have if I'd been allowed to make a post).