The Syndicate

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 2:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 2:24 pm Luna's role has "lynch" in it.

Okay.

predict lynch

Wait, that sounds familiar. Have I seen this before? Am I not insane?

If you predict the lynch, you:

1) earn a prize
2) don't earn a prize, but get something else out of it
3) you don't predict the lynch, but you do something similar

Smileys please

Luna has barely stated any suspicions throughout this game. There was a brief thing against Kites. Gone now. Now there's a voting thing, and apparently I'm the vote (she didn't talk about much at all prior to that). Looks fake.

Do DDL and Elohcin work as mafia teammates?


Response to reads list. k


A little low-enthusiasm support for Elohcin in light of the emotional moment.


k


stink eye


Eloh not in the POE. Tinfoil instead




~~~

Sure they can be teammates. It's not a loud, obvious thing, but I have no good reason to discount it.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 2:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 2:17 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 1:49 pm i can make the same argument for you as mafia, eventually seeing yourself in this position, and wanting to reference back as "the first person who claimed" and referencing that time you were a miller.

you said "It can be helpful in a very specific way, but only with some luck as I see it." -- what way were you seeing? cos it wasn't speedchuck's way.

It was similar to speedchuck's way. I didn't quite anticipate people would be willing to publicly broadcast their roles via the literal words associated with their abilities. I did think it would provide insight about what song they are, which at the time I figured might help me to piece together something about what they can do. Like I said then -- it had to be a lucky snag. I could have gotten somewhere with Doctor Wu for example, though it would have ended up at the wrong alignment.

okay, this is me acknowledging i've read your post and given it respect.

why do you suspect DDL if you think his role usage was perfectly acceptable?

Because that's a minor argument in my opinion. There are numerous other things about DDL that I don't care for. I also acknowledged earlier today that his poll choices can be questioned given the flips of niju and leetic.

Luna's role has "lynch" in it.

Okay.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 1:37 pm Lunalee, please use words from your role card that can actually tell us something about your role.

I don't understand why I still don't have any of this in my game thread.

I wonder how close Neverwhere is to arriving at reywaS's fate.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 2:00 pm i am kinda getting weirded out by the fact lunalee quoted the exact same posts from my iso of Eloh that made me town read her and is voting jay alongside me.

but this is a good thing, right? when lunalee weirds me out by being so agreeable, she's usually civilian that i'm about to think is mafia for being so agreeable.

Do you think these points are good enough for Day 6?

*pours one out for Quin*

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 1:49 pm i can make the same argument for you as mafia, eventually seeing yourself in this position, and wanting to reference back as "the first person who claimed" and referencing that time you were a miller.

you said "It can be helpful in a very specific way, but only with some luck as I see it." -- what way were you seeing? cos it wasn't speedchuck's way.

It was similar to speedchuck's way. I didn't quite anticipate people would be willing to publicly broadcast their roles via the literal words associated with their abilities. I did think it would provide insight about what song they are, which at the time I figured might help me to piece together something about what they can do. Like I said then -- it had to be a lucky snag. I could have gotten somewhere with Doctor Wu for example, though it would have ended up at the wrong alignment.

I don't give a third of a shit about what I could do as a mafioso. These discussions are a waste of time. I could do any damned thing as a mafioso. I am telling what I think I would do. If you won't acknowledge those answers, then I don't know what to tell you.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 1:34 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 12:48 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 12:22 pm @JaggedJimmyJay if you had rolled mafia with the role you claim to have, would you have role claimed?

Probably not when I did in this game. Once I’d seen a few flips and could get a better sense of the setup I might.

As a mafioso, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. And I don’t.

As a civilian, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. But I do it anyway, because I think it’s for the best to get it out there early instead of late.

It’s the same mindset that drove my miller claim in the other example I showed you before.

what if epi somehow expressed that alignments wouldn't be revealed from roles to you and your team? considering jack had a fake role, it could have been a topic that was broached. what then?

i actually forgot when you role claimed. it was before juliets but on day 1 and not day 0 iirc. i have to check. this is kind of an important thing to me.

I claimed on Day 1. I was the first person to claim anything.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:54 pm I've decided to claim my role, or at least part of it. I don't want it causing problems later in the game, because it's not one that has typical civilian utility. It can be helpful in a very specific way, but only with some luck as I see it.

My ability amounts to giving someone else a posting restriction of a nature that I will not share. It's not quite insanification if handled effectively.

As for your what if -- well, I don't know what if. What if Santa Claus is a sentient Fig Newton? If I am on that mafia team in that situation, I still feel no urgency to claim. I mean, why? What's the point of that?

I did it because I'm a civilian. Just like I claimed miller. I keep referencing that example because it's the exact same concept. Imagine if I had not claimed, was here today under at least some of the same heat, and then was like "oh by the way I'm the one who's been cursing people all game long". I foresaw that eventuality and wanted to prevent it. It'd become a big hot mess and infect the thread with a bunch of errant suspicion on me.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention], please use words from your role card that can actually tell us something about your role.

Luna agreed to the curse to affirm her role. She hasn’t done anything. Kill her.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 12:31 pm i'll say it again, this mata kill stinks.

if everyone decides to lynch eloh and she flips town, i look worse.
if everyone decides to lynch me and i flip town, eloh looks worse.

whoever killed mata was paying attention yesterday.

Any reason the killer wasn’t just Elohcin?

I realize any kill can be a frame. I don’t even care that Mata was killed specifically. My interest was in the watcher role. The mafia may not have known that was coming.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 12:22 pm @JaggedJimmyJay if you had rolled mafia with the role you claim to have, would you have role claimed?

Probably not when I did in this game. Once I’d seen a few flips and could get a better sense of the setup I might.

As a mafioso, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. And I don’t.

As a civilian, I am not eager to tell everyone that I am a curser. But I do it anyway, because I think it’s for the best to get it out there early instead of late.

It’s the same mindset that drove my miller claim in the other example I showed you before.

The point of a closed setup is to facilitate open role claiming.

So far Luna's curse posts tell me nothing about her role. They start here.

To be fair to Luna, I'm not sure she would have brought up speedchuck's votes at all if I hadn't copy/pasted the player list and asked her to name the people with bad votes.

That doesn't account for the BTSC agreement speedchuck mentioned. Dunno what happened there.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:55 am If Luna flips civ do we blame speed or Jay for it

Thats where I'm currently at

Or, you know, perhaps even you given your present vote.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:48 am Jay why did you curse Luna for again

We discussed it last phase with speedchuck. Luna can confirm her role via my curse, for whatever that's worth. She consented.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:42 am Is there a reason to kick Neverwhere out of the POE?

Not a good one

Regardless of whatever that was, I have nothing to dissuade me from a Luna vote.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

I don't see it. I think I might have literally dreamed it.

Good grief

Did someone else say that? Was it the other game? Haha what the fuck is happening to me

juliets wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:29 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:20 am The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

Jay who is "her"? And why are you talking about a lie detector. I feel like I missed something.

Luna. I had thought she had said something today about lie detection (within her curse), but now I don't see it.

Have I finally gone insane?

The mafia utility of a lie detector is of course limited. It isn't non-existent though, as it can help them to distinguish fake civilian role/action claims and build their game theory. Obviously a silencer like leetic is just about worthless as a civilian role anyway, so the setup does not care about these things.

I would lynch her. I'm not impressed by a vote on me based on my own voting record.

What I would most like to do today and will absolutely not be able to do is check the interactions of living pairs and find the most appropriate teams. Someone else might be able to help me out though. I don't need a huge ISO review post. I just want someone to check them out, come to a conclusion, and share that conclusion. Start with these interactions:

DDL/Elohcin
DDL/Luna
Luna/Elohcin

If you want, go beyond that. Add Neverwhere and all of the two-way interactions that she can be featured in. Figure out who makes sense as mafia teammates and who doesn't. That can help narrow things down a lot.

And if Luna’s phantom vote is considered, I’m tied for the tally lead right now.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:40 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:32 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:29 am dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

no, absolutely not. quite the contrary.

How would you expect a civilian Jay to explore that distrust?

as you do every game we clash as civs: assemble the team to come for my head.

do you expect me to trust you fully?

No, noy under these circumstances. I get your gripes and am unsurpised by them. I am trying to help you orient to a different point of view when considering what I have done and am doing regarding you — not to “manipulate”, but because I know there is good to be found in me if it is being sought out. I am not Darth Vader.

Lynching me could ruin this game and I want to prevent that. I can’t do much while I proctor exams beyond make these little posts.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:32 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:29 am dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

no, absolutely not. quite the contrary.

How would you expect a civilian Jay to explore that distrust?

dunya, basic question:

Would you expect a civilian Jay to fully trust you under these circumstances

I don’t feel like you’ve been listening to me in recent phases, dunya. I have felt as though you’re ignoring me on purpose. This isn’t even an accusation, seriously: am I that annoying that I cannot have a conversation? This is my perspective. It’s important because I cannot lead if I cannot be respected. That’s something that applies beyond just this game.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 8:03 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 6:51 am I’m not ignoring shit. You have a million posts. I don’t know them as well as you know them. During any two separate digs into your ISO I would be likely to find different things.

i could maybe believe that re: jack, but there's no way i can believe you mistakenly missed one of mata's final posts where a "valid point" that contradicts your case exists. she didn't have a million posts. i'm sure you read her final posts when they are in reference to me. your job as mafia would be to paint me with a bad brush, and you're doing that in spades without committing. you want others to doubt me and shake any trust they have in me. you saw an opportunity after mata voiced strong concerns and you dug in with every ounce of effort. i don't believe you're genuine.

marina&thediamondsimnotarobot.youtube

I’m literally not committing. That is the truth. And I’m not doing it because I’m not sure. Lynching a civilian dunya right now is 101 for how a civilian team blows a lead. There are a lot of reasons to trust you.

Lynching me is the wrong answer and also exactly how civilians blow a lead. Read my posts with the purpose of finding a civilian in me and I don’t think you will struggle. Everything I have done in this game has been honest.

Criticisms of his poll decisions in general are also more palatable given that leetic and niju are both revealed civilians.

I am considering a team of DDL and Elohcin. He referenced the GTH reads as one inspiration for his reduced poll. Elohcin was a majority mafia read in that exercise and he excluded her from his poll.

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

I feel like he’s just letting us all argue with each other.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:22 am [VOTE: Jay] aubergine

That's twice (I've noticed) Jay ignoring my posts. 1st was when he cased me and came to the conclusion i town read jack just because he resembled world flags Jack. And now this...which is a huge deal. And maybe a third time when id explained about ddl like 500 times and he kept tagging me to state then again then dropped the discussion. Plus my other beef with him re: use of emotional manipulation on someone he knows is easily affected by that.

I want to know why he ignored that last post I quoted of Mata.

I’m not ignoring shit. You have a million posts. I don’t know them as well as you know them. During any two separate digs into your ISO I would be likely to find different things.

You never answered me about DDL as far as I saw. So I poked and poked again. I still think your perspective of that was at best unfair.

I’m not emotionally manipulating shit either. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. THIS is emotional manipulation. If it’s the goddamned angleshoot, I literally sId that you wouldn’t do that deliberately and are an honorable player. I know you tied back to Phenon: Origins, and you’re not the first to do that, regarding emotional manipulation. It’s kind of infuriating, because I don’t see that game that way and I am NOT willing to do that as a means of winning civilian points. I have griped about that for literal years.

I don’t have time right now to say more, finals loom.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:15 am Once again Jay, sets the narrative of me being bad as he did in his case and ignores a very important post made:

Matahari wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:52 pm Hmm. Dunyas last post might make me change her color to pink. Ugh, I wish I had more time to be active today and ask questions.

If Mata is a watcher and caught me with "my hand in the cookie jar" why would she shift on me?

Mata had basically thought I scumslipped about being protected vs. roleblocked. Maybe she saw nova targeting me n3 and didn't like my quick conclusions. I dont know.

This Mata kill stinks.

That’s a valid point. I don’t really know what pink on a rainbow means, but it’s valid. Watcher stuff is not as conclusive as [for example] cop stuff, so I wouldn’t expect total commitment.

She flipped as a watcher and I tried to find answers pertaining to that role. This is very basic stuff that should happen for any flip of an investigative role. If I thought the argument could be closed there my vote would be on you right now.

I'm not comfortable placing all of my eggs in that basket. It does beg discussion though and is a valid case against dunya. I am feeling inclined to swap her with Kites in my previous rainbow.

Given that Mata voiced her strongest suspicions of Elohcin and dunya, I'm going to look specifically into her handling of those two. I will focus only on posts coming after one night phase when she could have obtained any kind of information.


Night 2. Elohcin is a suspect among two others. I don't get the impression this is informed, or I'd figure on Elohcin being split into her own focused case. I don't know Mata's brain of course.


Night 3. Same list plus speedchuck. She is [arguably] the most concretely negative in her explanation of her Elohcin read. It is still hard to say that this is informed.


Day 5. She voiced suspicion of both Elohcin and dunya, and clearly intended for her focus to be on dunya. The relationship of night actions and role chatter driving Mata's read on dunya is interesting for the specific purpose of this review.

Mata's beef with dunya is expressed in a series of posts starting around that point in her ISO. She made this a bit of a personal crusade.

If Mata caught someone with their hands in the cookie jar, I think her posts point to dunya more than they point to Elohcin.

Keyword IF

Matahari was a classic watcher. The potential exists then that she caught someone delivering a night kill. I wish we had a more conclusive way to guess at whether that occurred, but her recent energy increase could be so indicative.

Kites wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 7:52 pm still going with this, for now
[VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

could go for a luna lynch too

juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:09 pm [VOTE: Elohcin] aubergine

What brings y'all to Elohcin first?

I dunno if the above quote worked to generate a notification, so [mention]Lunalee[/mention]

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:42 pm Juliets and I could straight-up tell you the role, and she could confirm it with the curse

That's essentially what I mean. Whether I know it or not, corroboration is necessary.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 10:03 pm

[VOTE: Jay] aubergine
[/quote]

My votes are lame. Sure whatever. Use emojis to tell me who that accusation does not apply to:

Dragon D. Luffy
dunya
Elochin
JaggedJimmyJay
juliets
Kites
Long Con
Lunalee
Neverwhere
Spacedaisy
speedchuck

Luna please use words that reflect your role within the confines of the curse.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:33 pm oh great, another wall of text to skip over. Sorry guys, but y'all make mafia too much work. It is supposed to be fun. Y'all are the kind of people who, as kids, were excited to go to school and even more excited when your teacher gave you busywork. Am I right?

You’re not right. I was a trash student. And I do have fun playing my way. Stop insulting me.

Matahari wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:31 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:03 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:01 pm If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.

Earlier you said you had 0 reason to see Elohcin as a civ. Is she on your list too?

I don’t trust that she is authentic. There is considerable disagreement on that point though, and I am willing to listen. Elohcin being a mafioso would not be surpising to me at all — that’s a simple way to put it.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:24 pm this eloh thing is too long. i dunno if i wanna post it. should i just post conclusions? try to slim it up?

Please post everything. Multiple posts if you must. At least I’ll read it all

juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:01 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:01 pm If I had to finalize the next lynch right now I’d go with Luna.

Why?

I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to view her as a civilian. The only other player like that is Neverwhere.