The Syndicate

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:28 am RDW voted for Dragomir on day 2. He was one of the 5 on Dragomir or not one of the 7 who voted Soneji out. If memory serves, I think he was one of the later ones on Dragomir.

Yesterday, they were both voting for each other. If memory serves, I think Drago and RDW have been consistently voting each other or wanting the other one dead.

I wouldn't like put them on a team together.

You suggested earlier that you were inclined to put RDW in your town circle. Was that merely by dissociation from Dragomir, or because of RDW's own play?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:23 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:12 am speedchuck, what drove your decision to jail me?

If you scum, I blocc
If you town, I protecc

Was hoping for one of those. I had no idea what your role was.

My role wasn't very useful anyway. Did either your blocc or protecc mindset have a prevailing place in your decision?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:19 am But what Dragomir is doing doesn't look strong at all. I get why he's pushing me - cause there's a potential I might not really play that much, but still it's like dude, you were kind of caught in the act of overreacting to one vote. Yes, I get town has a reason to live too, but I did still claim early on. And you said "you wanted to scum read me"; it was like you knew I was town and what I did was townie. But then you decided/went ahead and scum read me anyway. It kind of feels like one of those grudge votes. (You were suspicious of me early, so I'm gonna get you back one way or another type deals. But yeah, it's not a super natural type read; it's like Dragomir is trying to hard to push something that isn't very natural or genuine feeling.

I do feel that Dragomir has been fiercer in his convictions than would make sense for a civilian mindset, particularly now at this stage of the game. I recall the MU folks recently referring to this as a "gotcha moment" -- when a player jumps all over a case with a degree of confidence that may not suit the circumstances (and as such it's a tell). Dragomir's entire post history is a continuous gotcha.

How willing are you to attribute that sort of mentality to personality instead of to alignment? It's almost the exact inverse of where we were with Gemma, who couldn't bring herself to make concrete reads at all in many cases.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 7:30 pm So you weren't actually claiming doc just then eh

How many games have you played with Doctor Q. Wilgy?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:34 pm completely avoiding discussing Speedchuck and RDW who were both leading wagons at one point.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], this is something I'd like to see you address directly.

[mention]speedchuck[/mention], what drove your decision to jail me?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:47 pm With Speedy's claim, I would probably put you on a team with him. Even though he says you didn't make the kills, you probably wouldn't be making the kills in the first place as there was so much suspicion around you to begin with.

Is your theory of Dragomir and speedchuck being teamed specifically inspired by the claim, or does that strengthen some hunch you already had?

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention], tell me about Mac.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:04 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:58 pm
I mean that Mac has claimed a green peek on DDL. How does this influence your perspective?

I remember skimming something about Mac or DDL claiming something. But I couldn't find the exact post/wording whenever it occurred. I guess if not DDL maybe Dr. Wilgy; it just felt odd for him to ask who I targeted day 1 when there wasn't a guarantee that I had an ability to do so on day 1. It feels like tmi. He could have read about it already, but why would he feel the need to ask me about it. It kind of felt like he might have already known the answer. Potentially something in a QT I guess, was my first thought.

[mention]DrWilgy[/mention], you are summoned to answer.

[VOTE: rundontwalk2] aubergine

[mention]rundontwalk2[/mention], what led you to choose Dragomir as your vote when you were able to get into the thread for a minute?

So, RDW came to us after six days away and dropped these two posts.

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 1:02 pm [VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

I have a final in 48 minutes, then another final tomorrow. Sorry y'all.

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 1:03 pm In case y'all try and lynch me I am town tracker, MacDougall didn't target anyone night 2.

These were six hours prior to EOD. To my memory, at the time the tally was led by speedchuck at three votes, RDW himself had two, and Dragomir had one (RDW made it two). I demand interpretations immediately.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:57 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:53 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:52 pm I think final 3 scum are Speedy, DDL and Dragomir. And I think the votes can back that up. Or I see somewhat of a pattern there.

What does this theory tell you about Mac?

It's more of a connection I'm seeing with speedy and Dragomir. Mac's votes are split between voting mostly for dragomir and voting on the main wagon.

I mean that Mac has claimed a green peek on DDL. How does this influence your perspective?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:58 pm JaggedJimmyJay. hey, voice of reason. What are you thinking? Do you intend to join massclaim or have you already done so?

I've just done so. The role actions have been expended anyway, and they're all irrelevant to alignment. What's holding you back, Doctor Q. Wilgy?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:54 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:51 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:47 pm Voyeur

N1 - Jack - no report - jailed by Lux
N2 - Epignosis - killer
N3 - nutella - nothing
N4 - DDL - no report - jailed by speed?

No, you were jailed by Lux night 1 not jack.

Right I think you misread that.

I tracked Lux and showed that they targeted you. I don't see how it can be more black and white than that. So please explain what you are trying to say here.

We're in agreement. I mean that I did say Lux jailed in that post just now. Check it in these quotes.

[mention]Luxurious[/mention] I am stoked about your first game on our website. I hope to see you in another game with us soon. You're a lot of fun!

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:52 pm I think final 3 scum are Speedy, DDL and Dragomir. And I think the votes can back that up. Or I see somewhat of a pattern there.

What does this theory tell you about Mac?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

Why would Dragomir have been a wise decision?

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:48 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:47 pm Voyeur

N1 - Jack - no report - jailed by Lux
N2 - Epignosis - killer
N3 - nutella - nothing
N4 - DDL - no report - jailed by speed?

No, you were jailed by Lux night 1 not jack.

Right I think you misread that.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:02 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 7:55 pm @DrWilgy You are in the POE by default which is a big problem because we've been lynching inactives by necessity and it's one day till MYLO as it stands.

Unfortunate.

So... By POE there's nothing else to go on or I am the best choice?

@MacDougall who did you target night 2?

There may be a ticket out of that hole and it's call the activity train. All aboard.

Voyeur

N1 - Jack - no report - jailed by Lux
N2 - Epignosis - killer
N3 - nutella - nothing
N4 - DDL - no report - jailed by speed?

Wilgy I am delighted.

k well I'm going to stay put.

[mention]Dragomir[/mention], who should be lynched between speedchuck and Jessie?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:46 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:43 pm I'm not interested in seeing them from a different perspective when said perspective is not any of their posts.

New question: even if you don't see alternative perspectives for your suspects, do you understand why other players may find it suspicious that your reads have been unmoving all game long?

No.

Do you think this same thing can be said of anyone else playing this game right now -- that they've been as rigid in their reads as you have been?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:43 pm I'm not interested in seeing them from a different perspective when said perspective is not any of their posts.

New question: even if you don't see alternative perspectives for your suspects, do you understand why other players may find it suspicious that your reads have been unmoving all game long?

I've got nothing to say in Jessie's favor, What few posts exist don't inspire, and a few of them are concerns.

Dragomir's play can be attributed as much to style and personality (and perhaps even age, forgive me my dude) as it can to mafia motivations. This doesn't make him a civilian, but I won't pretend this is a confident matter. At times he has seemed sincere and eager, and he hasn't struggled to maintain the pace despite handling accusations all game long. The guy has eclipsed 200 posts. He's not hiding from anything, least of all his own reads.

I suppose about thirteen people did say they won't be around. k

30 minutes remain.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 6:14 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:48 pm Do speed and dragomir have role claims? I seem to recall that they do but am unsure.

I dont. Do you want one?

I'm visiting family but I can claim. Won't change much.

Don't see much to gain right now from that

The idea here was to have a talk.

Dragomir, what is the single worst thing about RDW in this game?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pm @Dragomir, just a basic question:

In the absence of the DDL green peek, would your reads right now be different at all from what they were on Day 1?

Absolutely not.

Would you say this kind of mindset is commonplace for you in Mafia games?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:40 pm You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

I don't think you've been "illogical". I also don't think that's the full extent of the conversation -- indeed, I have long believed that fiercely "logical" play is as much the mark of the mafioso as the civilian, and for some people moreso. Do you have any kind of feelings underlying your reads?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pmThe salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

I've seen it come from bad guys too many times to discard it as readily as you are asking me to discard it. It may not be a case that you can answer to beyond defaults, so I will leave it there. This tell is something unique to The Syndicate.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:55 pmWhy is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

The highlighted portion can be questioned. I don't know that I have seen you make much of an effort to see your suspects from a different perspective, or to consider alternative explanations -- at least not until your hand was forced.

[mention]Dragomir[/mention], just a basic question:

In the absence of the DDL green peek, would your reads right now be different at all from what they were on Day 1?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:48 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:21 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 5:15 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:47 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:40 pm Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself.

You think a townie wouldn't attempt to save himself?

They might, sure, but doing something like that is something I more expect a wolf to do as there's more reason for why they'd do that than a townie.

Also, I think a townie is more likely to not care or try to save themselves instead just give up.

That's kind of redundant/not really a reason lol. You don't think a townie cares for self preservation when the game depends on the numbers?

No, not really.

Well this at least holds up with the Day 2 poll.

Drago was the counterwagon to Soneji and he left his vote solo on DDL.

The entire extent of Dragomir interactions with Ultra

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:17 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:47 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:09 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Apr 27, 2019 3:08 pm Yeah okay.

We got one.

Agreed that this entrance was awkward, especially in hindisight with his no lynch proposition

But then you proceeded to shade like 3 other people so I'm going to ask you how serious you are about this slot.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:03 pm DDL taking opportunities to answer soft questions and discredit early effort before it exists. bad

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:01 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:02 am What is the point of D0 if we can't lynch anyone?

With this mindset you ensure that it cannot have a point. bad

Eh. D0 isn't useless, but it does present a lot of opportunity to shade people over NAI.

By the way, your powerpoint is unintentionally hilarious.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:35 pm

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:04 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:02 pm

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:00 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:58 pm

Why concern then

Cuz he has nothing to base his read on.

The way you talked before made it sound like you’d done something??? Does that mean no matter your alignment you dont post well??

I mean, regardless of alignment I shit post. That is my modus operandi. Such that JJJ can't possibly have a town read on me yet, given I would do this regardless of what I am.

So are you trying to say that he's pocketing you?

What do you think, Dragomir?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:56 pm Hmm... we dont have any information to work on yet, so we should probably no lynch d1.

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

This reeks of chainsaw defense.

I'm not sure what to think yet so I want to hear his opinion on it first as I know no one's meta here.

You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 4:40 pm Owner voting Jessie makes me hesitant on his lynch. Looks like an attempt to save RDW. Rdw's vote on me reeks of an attempt to save himself. I think there's one mafia in his wagon, and one mafia in my wagon. If I had to guess, it'd be Rdw and Owner.

Both players have had zero interactions with each other and I don't believe Owner has talked about Rdw at all, not even in her recant post. I'ma iso Owner's posts to see if I'm right.

I believe that when RDW voted for you, speedchuck had the most votes. Can that be purely about saving himself?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:45 pm I think it’s funny that rdw felt the necessity to state he’s town tracker tho

Like it doesnt do anything really but insist he’s town while also role claiming

That being said him showing up at least makes me wanna lynch Jesse instead

The claim makes me feel exactly nothing.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 3:40 pm I think a lot of your humor posts are attempts to buddy so call it a tinfoil vote

Examples?

I do agree at least that some concrete suspicion can be stated for Jessie. He made posts relevant to the Mafia game. For MP it's an absence of civilian.

I think I've seen examples of fully inactive mafioso MP, though I cannot recall specifically. Over the last few years he has been very much all or nothing either way.

Is there a good reason Jessie deserves death over M Plus 7?

~snapshot tally at 2 each for Drago, JK, RDW, and speedchuck~

If the lynch were finalized in ten seconds, I wouldn't vote RDW. I appreciate the posture of the tally at present though -- any motions from this point should be telling.

JessieKruger wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 6:31 pm Hi nova you are right i initially agreed drago on that post however i read back owner iso post . I did not like his push on jjj in day 1 phase thats it i guess.

Since i think owner has role claimed as tracker in one of his post and he is consistently playing better in this day phase.

I dont like how dragos wanted a desperate vote on her. Just doesnt feel right if he flips green i am opened to be questioned.

I don't know what to do with this. Suppose we follow Jessie on this motion, lynch Drago, and then there is a green flip. It's a blatant way to get out in front of something that you know is coming. It's also an unusual thing to say in general.