The Syndicate

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:27 pm Which one is the better light on me?

I think I know which one it is and I don't think it's the one I want it to be.

I interpreted it as the former.

The latter, and it's the interpretation I've had for much of the game. If Ultra thinks I have TMI on speedchuck, then he has TMI on speedchuck.

Much of my ability to interpret Ultra and speedchuck in Day 1 is hung up in whatever the hell chainsaw defense really means. The difference between Ultra giving me shit for chainsaw defending "my mafia teammate" and Ultra giving me shit for chainsaw defending "a civilian that I have TMI on" is a big difference.

A premier concern for me now is that Ultra seemed to be on both sides of that equation simultaneously.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:17 pm When did Wilgy vote JJJ?

He didn't call it. I'm assuming he dropped it around the time he made these posts:

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:23 am I agree with the case on speed, that does make him look bad.

Has anyone viewd JJJ from a scum lens yet and if so, what were the results of that excersize?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:26 am I suppose I should out what has me hung up.

Why is JJJ still alive after Ultra's day 1 vote. That doesn't make sense.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:15 pm linki: Then I guess I don't really get it. Actions seem towny or they don't. If the context doesn't change, then how does an interpretation completely flip it?

Re-interpretation doesn't change context, it changes reads. In your suspicion of me, you're forced to assess the entire body of the game to generate the stance that you have. I don't give a crap what you think of my response to your suspicion -- your suspicion preceded it (indeed, the semantics of that sentence are self-evident ). Is it even possible for you to develop a changed read on me without re-interpreting content which you had previously liked?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:10 pm If it's interpretable both ways, it's not much to go on.

This was my mistake in the last game. I found plenty of bad things to say about dunya's posts, and I didn't do enough about it because I could also turn around and say good things if I wanted to. There was plenty to go on, and I treated it as though there wasn't much to go on. I'm not playing that game. I'm going to state my gripes and we can talk about them.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:10 pm If it's interpretable both ways, it's not much to go on. You said Mega-ISO there. Is there anything that's been added to my ISO that changes the context of those Ultra interactions?

When I say "mega-ISO" I am referring to the analytic post that I made, not to dunya's post history. The context of interactions with Ultra is contained to his only day alive. Posts from that period can only be assessed given that period. I don't know what you're asking me.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:04 pm Bull.

I'm not asking you to 'let me slide' on it. I'm asking for you not to flip your opinion on the SAME EXACT posts. I don't generally see someone put up some posts and say "yeah this looks town" and then use the SAME posts to say "this is why he looks bad."

Sure, later content can invalidate those posts, but the case on me that Owner started up today and that put the spotlight on me isn't about D1 actions that aren't enough to make me townread through D5. It's about the SAME D1 posts being used to read me completely differently.

I did the exact same thing with dunya in Steely Dan. She was in my town pile for a while post-Mac lynch, and eventually it became late enough that I could no longer rest on that -- I reassessed her entirely within that mega-ISO (including the same Mac-related stuff) and came upon some alternative interpretations. I should have pushed them harder then.

The fact is, my initial reads on your interactions with Ultra were a point of some contest -- various other people felt differently. If I don't make my best effort to see that perspective right now in Day 5, then I am asking to lose the game.

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 1:03 pm In case y'all try and lynch me I am town tracker, MacDougall didn't target anyone night 2.

What inspired you to track Mac?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 11:56 am That was a fun page to read. I sympathize with DDL's urge to follow his instinct on Jay, but I don't actually share that instinct at this point and I quite liked Jay's response. I see regular ol' hardass town Jay here.

What is "hardass town Jay" and where did you see him?

I hope people can talk to me in real time for the remainder of the phase. In Steely Dan I provided the massive ISO on a mafioso and people didn't want to read it. So let's talk.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], you left us a number of posts in sequence pertaining to speedchuck suspicion, and you left your vote on Dragomir. Where exactly do you stand on the two of them right now?

[mention]nutella[/mention], when you joined the game you said you'd had a theory that Gemma and I were both bad. Tell me about that, and more generally why you were beefing with Gemma

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 8:35 pm If he pretends my earlier posts was opportunistic, which is the route he's taking, then he's bad.

"Opportunistic" isn't the right word. DDL gave you a clear prompt to talk about me. I don't believe in many of the things that you said.

Particularly talking about my being alive right now as a problem is hard to take seriously.

I'll be the first to grant that I have not had my best game here. Even my Ultra vote wasn't one I put a ton of thought into; it was late in the day and I had to make a judgment call between a few wagons. It was as lucky as it was "good". I am not as effective at this game when I am unable to play it my way to the letter.

I mean what the hell:

JJJ produces better results as town
JJJ gets night killed earlier as town

Forgetting for a moment whether those assertions are even valid, the former can easily explain the latter. Why kill me if I suck?

DDL gripes about speedchuck waffling around me, so he pulls out this bullshit dissertation about me still being alive, the town struggling (and by extension attributing that to my play), reducing my concerns with him to a "No U" -- absolutely fuck that -- and squeezing me into this "pivot" accusation. No thanks.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:53 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:29 pm [VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

Bingo. Ultra voted JJJ but threw shit at speedchuck.

Should JJJ show to be a civilian, it "proves" Ultra wrong.

Textbook bullshit.

I'm voting speedchuck.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 10:55 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:29 pm [VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

I want everyone's opinions on this post when it is convenient.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:08 pm I want a speedchuck lynch.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:12 pm I want speedchuck discussed. Please and thank you.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:49 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 11:48 pm We should just lynch mp7 today

No thanks. We have Ultra as bad. I'd rather see speedchuck lynched.

You name MP7.

Why not Tsaiah?

Maybe this is why Epignosis was killed before me.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 7:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:42 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:18 am I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

Teammates with Owner.

Gun to your head, who fills the third mafioso slot alongside those two?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:35 pm JJJ produces better results as town. Sorry, but 'tis true. It's not fair, but it colors my perspective.

Sometimes. There are Shockheaded Peters where I can't miss, and there are Assassination Classrooms where I can't hit.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:35 pmJJJ gets nightkilled earlier as town. No idea why Jack or Epi (whichever was the kill) got killed over him.

This really isn't true. Over the course of my playing career something I have often commented about, including on this site, is the fact that I don't get night killed early very often. I have never understood why, but that's the way it has been on both RYM and The Syndicate. There were a couple cases earlier this year (like your team offing me first in SP) in which that trend was bucked, but the trend persists overall. Even in Steely Dan when my reads were pretty money for most of the game, I didn't get killed until Night 6.

It's also possible in this game that I was killed on Night 1 were it not for Lux's jail.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:35 pmEarly suspicions in this game on JJJ were about the lack of interactive reads. Jay dropped his pressure on the thread and did that. Then DDL suspected him for that. Might seem like JJJ can't win, but he might be pivoting to adapt a bit.

I don't care about this. I've done what I feel is best each phase given the time available.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:35 pmJJJ practically NO U'd me when I suspected him, or at least it seemed that way at the time. Suddenly the whole game turned on me. It was weird, especially with his pivot on my relation to Ultra.

The game is different now. I cannot justify letting you slide on the same things that I had been comfortable with on Day 2.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 6:35 pmJJJ doesn't give me the idea of someone with a small POE. I actually don't know what it is right now. JJJ is almost in MYLO right now and I have no idea what his SOLUTION of the game looks like.

I don't either. I'm building a new solution today. My last three votes have been errant. Reassessment is necessary.

Softball tonight, be back later

I'm going to pursue any concern I experience for a guy who is putting content into a player slot for the first time since about Day 0.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:55 pm How do you feel about this line of suspicion from JJJ, DDL? Is it feeling more like Jay trying to keep his options open as a bad dude, or Jay being concerned about the alignment of the doctor?

How do you feel?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:18 am I was asked last DP by JJJ if I'd rather lynch Jessie or Speedchuck. My answer is Speed.

Clearly Owner is still your preference. Where does speedchuck stand today?

I sorely overuse the word "dynamic". Y'all start thwacking my hand when you see it.

The only post that really matters in this dynamic is the one that came first (when he first poked you for your check decision). I'll see how others feel and allow Wilgy himself to answer.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:30 pm I would think a mafia's plan regarding me at this point would be "kill now or kill later" not "how can I get people to lynch him".

How about a dude who just got here

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:21 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 5:20 pm Dragomir, thoughts on DrWilgy, go

He's aight.

In what way? What do you like?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 3:30 pm I don't agree with Wilgy's point but I don't see a civ could not have it. I recall I've been called on the same thing in at least another game I was a cop.

Everyone has a theory on how cops should act, and people tend to be defensive of those for some reason.

I wouldn't say it's something a civilian cannot say or believe. At this point in the game though I don't care much about discerning every possible angle. There's one I see that goes deeper too than just "DrWilgy is being fake" -- my immediate impression was that he was shading you for failing to check his teammate (Dragomir).

[mention]Dragomir[/mention], thoughts on DrWilgy, go

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:54 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:37 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:29 pm [VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

This is up the wrong tree at best.

Speed didn’t need Jay to defend Speed from something that a bunch of players would think makes DDL look bad and doesn’t make Speed look bad.

One could more easily argue that this post is indicative of you and DDL being scum together.

Ran through the ISO of Jack. I feel that this post above is important because it points out Ultra description of a defense of speed... Well, townies don't need defending and Ultra knew who did.

I think it's entirely possible that this came from a mindset of talking about a teammate to a teammate.

Who exactly are you referring to here? What brings you to this conclusion?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:27 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:24 pm I am the N2 cop. I checked Jack.

Fun fact I kept alternating between Jack and Epi in the PM until I settled for Jack.

Does this add anything to the conversation and did you allude to this previously?

DrWilgy does not look authentic to me.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:02 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:52 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

Why would Dragomir have been a wise decision?

Precedent was set in ddl's suspicion with dragomir that wouldve warranted the check, not Jack.

Breadcrumbs are important and there should be an honest effort to lay them so that your information and thinking isn't lost. The lack of this and DDL's "irony" as he called it makes his claim the equivalent of poo.

Someone tell me this is a real opinion. ^

[mention]speedchuck[/mention], my hangup right now isn’t really with your treatment of Ultra but rather Ultra’s treatment of you. I realize that’s not something you can answer for. If you can provide an alternative explanation go for it. Just hunt though.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:26 am I suppose I should out what has me hung up.

Why is JJJ still alive after Ultra's day 1 vote. That doesn't make sense.

Tell me why Ultra voting for me means that I should be dead. What relationship exists between those two notions?

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:05 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:58 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:58 pm JaggedJimmyJay. hey, voice of reason. What are you thinking? Do you intend to join massclaim or have you already done so?

I've just done so. The role actions have been expended anyway, and they're all irrelevant to alignment. What's holding you back, Doctor Q. Wilgy?

Figured I could use the time to try to gain more information.

With them being irrelevant to alignment, do you see value in the claims and what are you wanting to learn from them?

It’s a why the hell not situation. Everyone is vanilla now, so folks might as well throw their shit out on the table. I have not personally learned much from them.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 9:02 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:52 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

Why would Dragomir have been a wise decision?

Precedent was set in ddl's suspicion with dragomir that wouldve warranted the check, not Jack.

Breadcrumbs are important and there should be an honest effort to lay them so that your information and thinking isn't lost. The lack of this and DDL's "irony" as he called it makes his claim the equivalent of poo.

This reads like hot bull crap to me. X suspected Y, so X must check Y is not a thing. Who treats a cop role that narrowly? You made this up.

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:47 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:40 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:56 pm Hmm... we dont have any information to work on yet, so we should probably no lynch d1.

[VOTE: Speedchuck] aubergine

[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

This reeks of chainsaw defense.

Someone suggested earlier that "chainsaw defense" refers to attacking someone attacking a teammate. If that's what the damned term means, then in this instance Ultra is calling speed and I teammates. From this point Ultra's handling of each of us go different directions:

Sounds like JJJ has TMI on speed - implication: JJJ bad, speed good
speed is obvscumming - implication: speed bad
JJJ looks opportunistic - implication: JJJ bad
vote JJJ, defended speed too soon - implication: JJJ bad, speed bad
Leaning towards JJJ knowing speed is town - implication: JJJ bad, speed good
if speed is town, JJJ wolfy - conditional implication: JJJ bad, speed good

If a chainsaw defense is this | this | this, then Ultra's progression on speedchuck is essentially randomized on a per-post basis. Ultra views me as evil incarnate in every post, and speedchuck is Schrödinger's cat.

Every time that post resurfaces I think of Wendy's

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 1:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:39 pm This player doesn't look comfortable

Question: Do you remember why you voted DDL shortly thereafter this post, when it looks like you might have more suspicions on Drago at the time?

DDL stepped in speedchuck's pile of poop (no lynch snare thing), and I felt it warranted a vote in the moment.

Ultra wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:29 pm [VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

I have viewed Ultra's handling of me on Day 1 as being a positive indicator for speedchuck. He essentially had said I had exhibited TMI on speedchuck by way of chainsaw defense regarding the no lynch incident. I've suggested that this was itself TMI on speedchuck.

Epignosis disagreed, and he called for speedchuck's head on Day 2. The alternative view here would be that Ultra sought to tie speed and I together and threw his vote on me. If I die, my civilian flip absolves speed of that case. It's plausible enough.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:38 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:28 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:27 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 10:24 pm I am the N2 cop. I checked Jack.

Fun fact I kept alternating between Jack and Epi in the PM until I settled for Jack.

Does this add anything to the conversation and did you allude to this previously?

They just died in the same night so it's a sad irony.

I feel that was an unwise decision. Based on your behavior day 2, why didn't you check dragomir?

I would break out the sirengif for this thing if it wasn't so obnoxious.

rundontwalk2 wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 11:40 am [VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

This was RDW's Day 2 vote for Dragomir. I reviewed all of the [called] votes to this point. Unfortunately I can't know if this is perfect, because not everyone calls their shit.

[2] Soneji - novaselinenever, JJJ
[2] Dragomir - DDL, Luxurious
[1] Luxurious - Owner
[1] Jack - speedchuck
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall

RDW placed his vote then to give Dragomir a 3-2 lead. If the tally is accurate. At the least we can say it was close, and that this wasn't a vote tucked into a flaccid counterwagon. It came just over 7 hours prior to the deadline. I'm not confident enough that this should be called a good indicator of dissociation. It's better than the aforementioned flaccidity would be.

I need to finally go see what the tally was exactly on that RDW vote for Dragomir.

Everyone give me your views on the entry of DrWilgy.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:40 am Is it it a bingo jackpot?

No. You go look at it and tell me what you think.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:41 am Jay watch Brooklyn 99 it'll change your life

I've seen the entire series so far.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:39 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:37 am Owner of a Lonely Heart, please click

I felt there was legitimate potential that Dragmoir and RDW were distancing.

Bingpot?

what

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 12:36 amAre you saying he's more "pushy" than his potential town self or he's doing something else?

I have never played with Dragomir or seen him play, so I have no meta to draw from. I tend to prefer it that way, frankly. I mean that the degree of confidence he has asserted in his reads hasn't aligned with the uncertainty I expect in a civilian brain.

[mention]Owner of a Lonely Heart[/mention], please click

I felt there was legitimate potential that Dragmoir and RDW were distancing.