The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:06 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:04 pmPlease do
I'll do it after Why I Think Speed is Scum. You're not getting rid of me that quickly.

Soyou think Day 4 was a lynch between 3 different scum?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:06 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:02 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:58 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:52 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:48 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:28 am
Can we lynch bob now?
Does malakim's flip affect your read of bob at all?

Why were you so against voting Malakim?
Bob is my strongest suspect independent of all players without 3 J's in their name.

I supported the lynch by the end of the day, but I opposed it initially for two reasons: malakim's reaction to the janitored nightkills looked like authentic surprise which I did not think made sense coming from a player who would have had a hand in the killings. And the argument that "Jay lynched Mesk to save Dom/mal" on Day 3 was stupid.
But you still wouldn't vote for him.
Indeed. I did not need to. I made a post about this.
linki: I know, I saw it. I don't like it. Looking at your other mafia game that I was in with you, you're still meta-town, but I dislike that post.

Say, if cbob is town, who will you suspect next?
How about if he's scum?

I don't like independent suspects. Our baddies are not bad in a vacuum.

I think the whole Sloonei thing is NAI because Malakim had a million votes so an extra vote on him would have held no weight whatsoevert.

His choice to make a symbolic vote on Cbob is a personal one that doesn't really indicate alignment.

Meh. Sorry malakim.

I was having a feeling he would be a civ with his ragequit and all.

But like... how am I supposed to deal with a player who just quits at the first sign of pressure?

Marmot was active one and a halfhour ago.

It's possible he went to bed.

Nah just kidding. Votes back.

*kylemii*

So..

Upside of new deadline: I can be here in EoD
Downside of new EoD: Nobody else can, so if I want to change the lynch it's extremely hard.

(now that I want to change this particular lynch)

- Wakes up
- Sees 9 people in the same wagon as me

Imma go have breakfast

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:05 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:01 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:00 pm "poll runs til 2:43 am" well I guess I'll.... probably be up for that
West coast, huh? Us eastern folks have it a bit later.
The time works for me (barely) because I live on the west coast and currently have no societal value. Most people live on the east coast and also have jobs or school.

Societal value is for suckers. I feed myself from the tears of the scum I lynch.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:39 pm Y'all converted me to saying "scum" lol I used to hate that term but now I use it all the time I guess I used to say "baddies" and that just feels silly/childish to me now, idk. I guess "mafia" is a decent generic term too

Well scum allows for terms like scummy, scumhunt, scummates, scumteam, scumbuddies and scumget.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:38 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:24 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:15 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:14 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:09 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:07 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:01 pm @Sloonei Would you vote malakim with me please? You don't have to stay or anything. Just vote him for a while.
Why?
Because mal is bad. And I'm doing a thing.
I like my vote where it is for now.

linki: huh well that settles that I guess
would telling me what the Thing that you are doing defeat the purpose of said Thing?
It would have, but the purpose is already defeated now. Basically, I'm tinfoiling you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:05 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:20 pm Also I am a suspect to you because you believe I bussed Jay. How can you treat my line of suspicion as illegitimate? We're looking for the same thing; it's just our results that are different.
No. You're a suspect to me because

1) I believe Jimmy and Dom/Mal are w/w and you voted to save Dom/Mal. Worse, you did so with no reasoning or conviction.

2) You voted Wilgy with all my other suspects instead of Jimmy or Speed, which no explanation, creating a scenario where the only town read of mine between the three of them was more likely to be lynched as of an hour before EOD.

3) You keep handwaiving the incredibly strong cases against Mal (obviously saved by Jimmy) and Quin (obviously trying to save Mal and then Jimmy and refuses to say why).

I don't actually care one way or another about your vote for Jimmy. If you hadn't voted or said anything at all, the outcome would be the same.
This bothers me, because I'm prone to find a few townreads and stick to my guns REALLY HARD on them. You're one of those townreads. You still read town. But it bothers me that you haven't moved against malakim in any substantial way. (I know you already probably responded to this somewhere. This game has too many posts.)

If there's a high-posting mafia member, it might be sloonei.

Was it you who first brought up the "Jay being bussed" theory? (I honestly can't remember, and the game is getting too big for me to want to look.) Introducing that after JJJ got lynched took the focus completely away from you. Could be an interesting gambit for you OR a scummate. As for killing Jack, you're the one scumread he had that nobody else was following. The most likely to slip through the cracks if Jack just disappeared, as everyone else has a townread on you and was basically ignoring Jack.

I was testing in a silly childish way to see if you'd even put a single vote on Malakim for kicks. You refused. You probably refused because my request was silly, but it doesn't give me good feels. Thus, .

Of course that also mostly dependent on Malakim being scum, sooooooooo

Tbh I buy Jack's theory.

It's just that my current view on Sloonei is that his votes look so bad I find it hard to believe a scum Sloonei would make them.

Well that's usually a gray area, but if a role doesn't have much critical information (as in, an investigation result), you can usually just ask the replacer player to hide that information.

*votes*

I'm fine with lynching Malakim.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:50 pm For future reference, is replacing back into a game a thing? I've done it several times on another site. I was vanilla town or some passive role (with no non-public night actions) and died early. Then I replaced a non-poster, with no more knowledge than I had with my other role. Is that a thing here?
I haven't seen it yet.

Not that I want to die and replace INH, or that anyone else can. Just wondering.

Yes, but it's more rare here since kills are janitored. Mesk is the only one I could see replacing back in, and she was inactive to begin with so she might be unavailable. Well, we can always ask her.

[mention]Mesk514[/mention]

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:06 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:01 pm @Sloonei Would you vote malakim with me please? You don't have to stay or anything. Just vote him for a while.
I moved to malakim. I'm fine with either malakim or Wilgy.

Also I think someone should get rid of INH. I would even argue modkilling him would be beneficial to us because our day phases are of the essence, but I don't want to open that can of worms.

If this was any NF host he would have already been modkilled and nobody would have complained.

Better than wasting a vig kill on him.

You people are soft.

dunya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:43 pm what time is eod here now? I'm getting really confused.

It should be about noon in your timzone I think

Imo if our killer role is alive and active he should be shooting the likes of INH and Sig. And Malakim, should he not come back.

I do feel sorry a little but I also feel a sense of "what the hell am I supposed to do" when the guy reacts so badly to being voted in a mafia game.

If he is actually legit pissed off this could be a matter to consider, though.

Malakim hasn't logged in since saturday afternoon. I may have pissed him off in my argument with him.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:46 pm Buy me, I'm right

The last time I did you left me alone voting for Bob while you went and voted for Mesk.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:24 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:31 am
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:29 am GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.
Bad
Bad
Bad
Civ
Whi id bob bad?

Because "I don't know, please leave me alone" is not usually an accepted answer in GTH exercises.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:57 am LC is an odd case right now. Still want to gutread him as good. I'm interested in thoughts about how he handled Eloh's read a few posts ago, as well as his readlist that (lol) put Jack as number 1 scumread right before the lynch.

His vote on JJJ, even as he said, looks like posturing but he hasn't taken advantage of it. I think that goes for a lot of current things LC is doing. They look like convenient town or scum tells, but then he keeps hanging lampshades on them. The level of self awareness is throwing me for a wine spiral.

"Actually, my vote on JJJ was worthless"
"I don't know why you're defending me Eloh"
"readlist with Jack as bad RIGHT BEFORE jack dies"

Feels weird. Super honest with a smashing of wine. I keep writing "gut says town" on this post but I'm not sure what my gut says beyond "Urgh I feel terrible."

I feel you. And I think he is being doing it on purpose to makes us confused and avoid being both lynched and NK'd. But that's also something a civ would do. Especially a seasoned civ who is probably more interested in Chicka Chicka so he would come here just to troll us.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:45 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:02 am Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself nstead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.
I ended up jumping back on Jay to save myself. So I think it cancels out.

Why not on Jay?

colonialbob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:04 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:12 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:25 am I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ
Post 3302.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:17 am also i put my vote back on jay. his ISOs don't sway me much. That's exactly what I'd expect him to do as scum. It's exactly what he always says players, town or scum, should do in the face of pressure. I don't feel like his mesk vote came from a place of sincerity and prior to today I got very little sense that he was trying to solve the game in any capacity.
Post 3287.

My bad, guys. Sloonei voted Jimmy before Bob.
This doesn't look good for Bob.
Bob already mentioned that twice but apparently nobody actually reads what he says

Patience, young grasshopper. I have now read all of your defenses.

Which now makes me torn on whether to buy you or Sloonei.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:42 am It was eighteen pages of reading dictionary definitions and debating what "is" means and now I think you're both bad.

Calling it now.

One of Epi and Kyle is bad.

But I think Epi is good so...

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:26 pm I hate this argument about ties.

One of Kyle and Jack is bad.

Calling it now.

I keep my promises.

*kylemii*

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:29 pm Mafia is difficult for me. Epi, when you asked me what I think of Jack, it was like trying to do a look-and-find in my brain, tbh. There are so many players, so many components, so much of not knowing where to place who. It's like when you cook in the kitchen and every ingredient is left out after usage. Dirty pots and pans everywhere and utinsils all over the place. When I go into the kitchen to plate the food, I have to find the lid to each container and put everything away, fill the dw with the dirty dishes and clean off the counter tops even before I can plate the food. If I don't, my brain is overwhelmed by the disorganization and I cannot think straight to plate all the components for each person. Jack is like the lid to the oregano seasoning in a sea of kitchen disarray. This is my view of mafia and why it's so difficult for me.

Do like me, start mafia by joining a 50 player game in your second game.

This way you get used to not reading everyone at once and focusing on a few people at a time.

It doesn't matter if it is relevant to half the game when their ability to make dents at mafia during that half is small compared to other roles' ability to make dents during the other half.

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:15 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:21 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:24 am I feel you, dunya. It's entirely plaisible we all crossed nutella off our lists prematurely. Her behavior before the lynch was what did it for me, though, and not her reaction to it. She seemed to anticipate that a tie would happen. It's possible this was just a gambit that miraculously paid off. But the question of why she's still alive is a good one. I think there are answers thay don't have to involve her being scum, but it's still worth addressing.
If I were bad, I would not have killed nutella. I would have tried to target more dangerous civilian roles. If nutella is Everest, the trait passes down anyway- so it isn't a net gain of anything.
You're forgetting the tie on Jack and Sloonei Day 2. If nutella was Everest, (which we will say is possible for sake of this argument and since you assume she's not being killed because scum think it's not important to kill Everest when K2 inherits their ability, and they could take out other more important roles????----which are never revealed so they never know who they are taking out), Jack would have been clearly lynched vs Sloonei. Since he analyzed that situation as much as Sloonei, I feel he is not Aconcagua or Pico Cristóbal Colón. Plus, 2 empty night kills makes me feel Aconcagua was definitely targeted at night.

Also I completely disagree that taking out Everest and trying to figure out who K2 isn't important. I think they have the most dangerous day roles. Lynch shenanigans are a very important tool for scum. Their priority would be Everest and K2 imo.

Imo their priority is Denali, Logan, Elbrus, and Matterhorn. The first three because they have information, actually the most powerful thing civs may have. The later because it is probably hiding some true powerful shit.

Abilities that manipulate vote are not really that important, because at the end of the day they can go either way. Civ roles are only scary when they know where to aim at.

I probably have more than 3 suspects at this point, tbh.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:29 am GTH whenever anyone sees this:

Malakim
Kylemii
Cbob
LC

because my vote is probably going to one of these, and I'm thinking it's one of the first two.

Bad
Bad
Bad
Civ

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:26 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:03 pm I'm not caught up but I stopped to read Epis Kyle theory.

I loved it.

Im gonna ISO the fuck out of Kyle tomorrow.
Specifically which part did you "love" about it, because most of it was based on things that were incorrect.

Based on things which you had your own explanations or, you mean. Whether they are correct or not we can only know for sure after you die or the game ends.

I liked the point about "thank you for replacing" and I do think your hands o approcah to voting for people until their wagons are formed looks suspicious,

dunya wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:17 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:40 am If I do end up dead, a few parting words:

~ Any civilians who helped to kill me -- it's alright. I don't blame you. I understand that I have been a different player in this game and that is inherently going to generate suspicion. I'm over it.

~ Second, the activity level in this game has been fantastic to this point. The best thing the civilians can do moving forward is to maintain that through the finish. Do not let this game thread stagnate. That is the single best way to let a mafia team get comfortable.

~ Epi and Jack are full of shit right now. Press them on it when I'm gone. I'd also list Wilgy as a premier suspect.

~ My top town reads are Sloonei, dunya, and Quin.

~ I think speedchuck and malakim handled themselves well in this day phase, particularly toward the end. I'm less thrilled with Long Con.

~ Please at least give my ISOs a look, their primary value is as legacy and that's the whole point.
Three remaining scum.

He names 8 players

Epi, Jack, Wilgy - anitown

sloonei, dunya, Quin - town

speedchuck, mal - positive things

long con - negative things

People he did not name at all in his "legacy post":
Elo
Kyle
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
nutella
DDL

Three scum remaining, it's a pick and mix. No way he didn't name all 3 of his team mates in that post and no way he would name all 3.

I'm going to start with the people he not name and list them from least scummy to most scummy in my head as of now, with the exception of insertnamehere (insert angry face emoji here)

sig
DDL
colonialbob
Elo
insertnamehere
Kyle
nutella

I wanted to place insertnamehere in the middle, but I actually feel much better about Elo today after reading some of her past civ games, so I'll place him one spot under here.

Potential suspects from this pool imo are:
INH
Kyle
nutella

I'm a little baffled as to why he didn't name nutella amongst "top town read", or colonialbob in any read, especially after his iso of him, since it's (the fact he didn't means he's not even really paying attention to bob imo, despite being slightly pro-bob all game....). I can't extend that same excuse to nutella, since she's literally been a "top town read" in everyone's lists and she was attacking him all kinds of harsh that eod phase. He couldn't have forgotten about her. He wanted us to forget about her. The one thing that clears nutella slightly for me is how hard Jay went after sprityo (my alter ego) for voting for her! He was hoping to lynch him fast and it all revolved around nutella. I feel awkward about that, because a sprityo lynch would be a town flip; and I don't think he'd want to be that wrong about someone over another scum member.

I can't read this post without drowing in a sea of wine.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:02 am
Quin wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:52 amNo.
I explained my suspects in way too much detail there, but I also largely ignored Jay's Day 4 ISOs because I'm viewing them as pure, unfiltered wifom. I did make the same observation as you that wilgy was the only target who he offered a definitive read on, though. I would expect Jay to want to bus a teammate or two, and I would likewise expect a teammate or two to want to bus Jay.
colonialbob's interactions fit this model best of anyone, in my opinion. They sort of hovered around one another on Days 2 & 3, without ever really delivering any criticism of one another. Jay labeled bob as "not a town read" after I came up with my initial Bob case, but that suspicion fell completely off the map afterwards. Until Day 4, when suddenly bob was apparently highly confident in Jay's badness; confident enough to attack another player (DDL) for appearing to defend Jay, but somehow not confident enough to vote for him on his own. Jay, meanwhile, offered an ISO that was far more critical of bob than he had been prior and even made one point in particular that was directly opposed to a stance he had taken earlier in the game, when presumably BaddieJimmyJay would have wanted to keep his partners out of harm's way. I could not help but sense a shift in the way each of them approached one another on Night 3/Day 4.

Sig was the low-posting suspect who Jay repeatedly named, but never pursued in any serious manner. Dom/malakim and sprityo/dunya were both players who Jay actively tried to lynch at one point or another.

I agree with much of what you have to say about wilgy, but I do not disregard the possibility that the two of them as partners conspired to maximize the distance between them in the thread. It would have been fairly elaborate, but that's not something I would put past either of them.

I don't feel like Bob attacked me. He just disagreed with me.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.
The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Actually never mind, there is a contradiction here since it was their own faction kill that got janitored.

Still, I don't think that's hard to fake at all.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:56 am
malakim2099 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:04 am A janitor in this game. Very interesting.

Though I suspect the Martian is involved with that. Too many secrets.

Going to bed now, will poke back after some sleep.
The surprise and unawareness of the nightkill mechanics in this game malakim displayed here appear genuine and believable to me. I think he's a townie who believed for a fleeting moment that we had a janitor in this game, or that the nightkill was carried out by Olympus Mons. If he was scum he would have been clued into their target and would presumably be aware of his team's full complement of abilities.

Honestly no. If a scummate of mine has just join ed BTSC I'm not going to give them a rundown of all the possible Syndicate mechanics they might not be aware of. Chances are I won't be aware they don't know about the janitor kill until after they say it themselves.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:12 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:25 am I like the people on JJJ much more, so I'm swtiching over. JJJ
Post 3302.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:17 am also i put my vote back on jay. his ISOs don't sway me much. That's exactly what I'd expect him to do as scum. It's exactly what he always says players, town or scum, should do in the face of pressure. I don't feel like his mesk vote came from a place of sincerity and prior to today I got very little sense that he was trying to solve the game in any capacity.
Post 3287.

My bad, guys. Sloonei voted Jimmy before Bob.

This doesn't look good for Bob.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:07 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:59 pm
Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:32 am I moved my vote to Epignosis because his case rejects common sense.
Like here's an example. Epi was 109% right about Jimmy.
And his case was 110% bullshit. Good Day.

I can't explain why exactly. But the last time I saw someone make this kind of post, it was me. And I was lynched immetiately. And flipped bad.

There is something in it that feels like you are not really happy for the civ victory. You are arguing against it.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:17 pm When J³ made his "farewell I'm dying" post it read as sincere to me too. I wasn't actually convinced we'd done the right thing until he flipped Choco Hills like 3 hours later.

Time to play an Epi.

What is the point of those sentences? You already explained your votes. So now you're just being dramatic. I don't like it.

ninja'd by Epi in the next post.

Ok I need to stop this.

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:43 pm It is a weak reason to dismiss Kyle, but I believe him because he's a good person and it was a sincere apology and he's made a good effort to be as helpful and open as possible. It's reserved people I don't like.

You are letting your empathy get to you again.

Hmm LC did try to lynch Jay on Day 3 didn't he. Meh.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:39 am Good job, Civs! Hopefully this will lead to total game solving.

I don't like this post. Feels too diplomatic.

What are your opinions on LC, people?

EBWOP: review of EoD4

It does mean I'll have 38927492374927 posts to catch up when I wake up, but at least I'll be able to change my vote right before deadline if needed.

I like this new day end time.

ninja'd by Marmot.

RIP Jack. Nice game here, and sorry for doubting you early.

Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Nutella and Eoi look great
- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself nstead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.
- Bob looks Eh. He dropped out of the Jay thing when people started doing t, but jumped in again when they started coming bck. Jack looks similar to Bob in that regard.
- Eloh looks bad too.
- Sloonei looks awful. I bet he has the worst vote tracking out of anyone this game. The way he kept doing 180º turns on Jay, and those turns matched the flow of the thread is pingy as fuck, and also looks artificial. I'm only second doubting it because it threads close to "so bad it's good" territory, I actually doubt a true bad Sloonei would goof that hard. The Night 3 lynch feels similar too.

I'm not caught up but I stopped to read Epis Kyle theory.

I loved it.

Im gonna ISO the fuck out of Kyle tomorrow.

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