The Syndicate

Also lol in retrospect because I said I wasn't gonna poke the rainbow beehive and ended up doing anyway. Sorry not sorry.

Since you people are mentioning Eloh I decided to check.

Not gonna check everything because this is such a crazy game where even Eloh has 180+ posts so fuck you all. Will stick to mentions of Jay and Wilgy.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:37 pm Elohcin
Mesk514
JaggedJimmyJay
Spacedaisy
Dragon D. Luffy
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Kylemii
DrWilgy
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
sprityo
Quin
Sloonei
Dom
nutella
Long Con

The highly controversial rainbow list. Not gonna poke this beehive tbh. This is her first mention of both Wilgy and Jay in the game.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:18 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:49 pm
tbh, I agree with this. I feel like straight forward Wilgy has been more common recently too.

Haha... I agree actually. I feel like since vocaroo mafia, I have a whole new perspective of wilgy. And I like him.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:58 pm At this point, I think sloon or quin would be good lynch candidates. I think both are contributing mostly nonsense.

I think jack is forgetable and don't really understand the votes on him. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve them.

I like that wilgy is contributing now and I think cbob seems civ.

I still think LC is bad but I guess we'll have to get him another time when others agree with me.

Wilgy defenses.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:39 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:31 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:46 amDaisy responds and he just drops it? This looks like something I would do if I were bad. Quin tries to get something on daisy. Can't. Gives up. And as he now feels daisy will not be taken to an easy lynch, he asks her opinion on sig. Which really, he should know her thoughts if he had been reading her posts. And if he hadn't, this only confirms his original "suspicion" of her is made up.

My top suspects for day 3 are quin and chuck so far.

Post is snipped for brevity, here's the whole thing

Elohcin, your grievance with Quin here is contingent upon his handling of Spacedaisy. Following the interaction Quin had with Sloonei that you discussed in this same post, Daisy's handling of sig (re: Jack) was the core of the dialogue. In that regard, it would seem to me that a focused question about sig to Spacedaisy makes plenty of sense. Indeed, the highlighted portion here is an assertion that Quin didn't actually read her posts because he asked about sig, but the exchange above this in the same post displays Quin talking about Spacedaisy's read on sig. Please talk about that.

Also please talk about this

Right. Quin was suspicious of how daisy handled her thoughts of sig. But then he asks her what she thinks of sig. I don't see how that's reasonable.

As for discussion of the rainbow list I made on day one (I think it was), I just looked at the list of playera and basically put them in order of most trustworthy to least trustworthy in accordance with my opinion. Apparently I was ignorant to the fact that rainbow lists had to be more complicated than that. And yea, In mentioned that I was okay with voting A low poster as I felt a baddie could be among them. Of course its not like I would have picked a low powter at random to vote for. It would be something that would have to be discussed. And just because I'm okay with voting a low poster doesn't mean all the low posters have to be orange and red on my rainbow list.

Does this better explain my posts?

Jay spills his rethoric diahrreia he had all game. Eloh explains her rainbow list. Hard to say what Jay means here because he has meant nothing all game. Eloh is simply defending herself.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:17 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:51 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:10 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:05 am @Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

The use of ellipsis here is so awkward I actually wish Epi was alive so he could deeply analyse it.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:12 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:44 pm Quick comment regarding the GTH exercise.

For everyokne that GTH'd me good. Why do you think I'm good? Under what scenarios do you find that I'm scummy? Would you say that you are mpre of a player that finds people innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

@elochin I'm still curious as to why you stated my comment about being able to read Daisy stuck out to you as scummy before my further explanation. What about that comment caused a scum read? Am I not allowed to be bad at reading someone?

@JoH, I'll get back to you. I've come to a point where I'm aware of my tunneling and I need to review others before I continue to bark at you. What I find interesting outside of our back and forth is your baddie read of me. What prompted this read exactly?

It was the tine and abruptness off your post. I quoted and posted and then came back to where I left off and saw you had explained yourself better in the very next post. I thought maybe after you posted, you read it back and saw your scummy tone and figured you should better explain or.... perhaps your tone wasn't a scum slip and you were just continuing your thoughts in the next post. Seeing as just about everyone, if not everyone, sees you as good with their GTHs, I'm thinking it was one of my irrational reads. I'm good at those. But I don't know. I would put you as a firm yellow in my head.

Wilgy demans an explanation on her suspicion of him. Eloh backs down and puts him as a neutral. Looks pretty bad, almost "too bad to be bad".

Elohcin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:07 pm I placed a vote on chuck. I wish thenlynch wasn't ao late. Don't tie tgis up guys.

It's EoD3 and by this point what annoys me is the practically zero content on Jay. Wilgy has a more, at least proportional to Eloh's normally low post count. But it's weird because Jay was one of her top civ reads in the rainbow, and she never directly acknowledged his existance in the game except that one time where she was prompted by him to explain her list.

So in a exciting and disputed night, she votes Speed alone and doesn't take part in the main wagons (granted I think the Jay wagon hadn't started yet so this is probably NAI).

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:30 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:21 am I'm still reading page 63 but I'm an impatient kid right now so imma leave this thought.

Usually whenever I play a game that has both Jay and Sloonei in it, I feel like Sloonei is Jay #2.

Like, their playstyles are very similar, but Jay is the protagonist. Sloonei is the sidekick. Jay leads the town. Sloonei helps. They are a fearsome civ duo that way, actually. The Jay 1 and the Jay 2. You don't want to cross their path if you're bad.

In this game, Sloonei is Jay #1.

He leads the town. He leads the conversation. He is the is the guiding light that will take us to victory, or to our doom. But he is the one steering the wheel.

Whatever Jay is, he is not Jay #1. Or even Jay #2. He is something else and I don't know what that is.

At this point I'd expect to be drowing in a sea of Jay. To have so much Jay around me I could barely breathe. But I can breathe just fine. Jay is talking, but he is not seizing control. He is engaging, but not in a way that makes me feel like he is trying to produce perfect reads on everyone on day 1, to make everyone interact with each other, to move the game forward.

He is not in his element. Something is wrong with him. So I'm itching to call him bad. Although, it is possible he might be busy or distracted or just having a bad civ game. It happens. But he is not the civ Jay I know, I'm sure of that.

This post is so poetic. I love it.

I'm not sure how I feel about Jay this game. He is difficult for me to read. But I would agree that he is quieter than usual even though he is participating.

Finally. Night 3. A mention of Jay. And we get a very soft agreement with me. Well, she has been very softly agreeing with me every 24 hours.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:43 pm You look very town in this post.

I agree and its throwing me for a loop because he is convincing. I don't know who to be suspicious of.

This one is weird because Eloh agrees with me and says Speed is convincing. And I remember her building a case against Speed early on. She even made an ISO and everything.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:16 pm I said I was going to put reads in this thread and I will. I do not have time to be Jerry Seinfeld and I don't give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld. I frankly don't see how there could be any impression that I give a shit about trying to be Jerry Seinfeld or any other generic super-civilian cookie cutter rendition of myself given the posts I have made in this game. This variety of meta read is bogus, as though JJJ suddenly forgets how to make a million posts when he draws a mafia role.

There's a reason I am only here during brief windows right now. That won't change for the foreseeable future in this or ensuing games. I implore the civilians in this thread to engage a broad dialogue whether I am your locked vote or not. Nothing is friendlier to the mafia team right now than a continuing focus on me, especially when I am in no position to engage the discussion.

Can you elaborate a little bit on your lack of activity? Now, I know you are participating, don't get me wrong. You just aren't participating like normal Jay, civ or baddie imo. I have been in games with you where you were civ and bad and I would say you carry the thread in either situation. So, I don't see this quiet Jay (quiet for you) as necessarily a bad jay. But it is disconcerning. So, I'm curious. Have you taken on more in your RL schedule? I ask because I hate to lynch a civ Jay because of RL business.

Tiptoeing around suspecting Jay.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:43 pm I would be okay lynching wilgy, quin, sloonei, dunya, or lc. I know its my duty to go into detail but I cannot stare at this screen much longer. This isnbased on a previous poat I made in response to dunya. These arenthe people I don't trust atm.

Wilgy-not trying hard enough. Has pinged me a couple times.
Quin and sloonei-seem to be a driving force this game but I don't feel like they seem super civ. Baddie teams usually have at least one very vocal player. If this team does, gotta be one of these.
Dunya-same field as sloonei and quin as a driving force, but she has said several things that ping me even though she also seems like a vey helpful civ. "Seems" and "is" are two different things.
Lc-still could be bad imo

Thanks for letting us know, Eloh. Vote for Wilgy maybe?

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:26 am Look at me voting alongside sloonei, another suspicion of mine. This game is so crazy. Fun, but crazy.

Look at me contradicting myself again about Speed and joining the CFD that nearly saved both Jay and Wilgy! So crazy.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:23 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:55 am JaggedJimmyJay has been lynched.
He was the Chocolate Hills.

You have until 22:00 MST on Sunday to submit your night actions, as I will be incapacitated tomorrow.

Well....good job guys. I had a soft spot for Jay because people were saying he was busy IRL. I hated to lynch a good civ just because he wasn't able to participate AS MUCH AS he normally does. Now....what can we learn from this lynch?

This could either be honest or could be a baddie Eloh wanting to say something about her teammate and being awkward about it. I'm probably being confirmation biased here. I hate ISOs.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:08 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:59 pm Can anyone tell me why I have a bad read on Sloonei? I want to see what you think.

I don't know why you had a bad read on sloonei. But I think the thread has pretty much confirmed him town now. I cannot remember the exact reason why, though. Too much to remember.

NAI I think.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:27 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 pm @Elohcin what are your views on LC and Dr Wilgy?

I think both could be bad. I don't trust either. LC is quiet for his meta. Wilgy is talking about the same as usual which means not much to go on. But...there are others who have more and better points against them. So... I think that's where we should focus.

I have to vote. Let me look at the poll and try to catch up and decide where to place it. Gotta get some sleep as tomorrow is another long workday.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:30 pm Oh wait...thats right. JJJ had a case against wilgy, I forgot about that. So he probably isn't scum.

You almost did good here Eloh. Almost.

OK let's conclude. First of all, sorry if my sarcastic tone may have offended you at some point, Eloh. I usually act like that when I ISO someone. It's not personal.

Second: Eloh does not go hard at Wilgy or Jay. She went at Wilgy a little at first, but she also read him good not much before, and went back to reading him good later. With Jay, it's more like a near complete avoidance.

She doesn't look good here, if you apply the theory that scum doesn't attack scum. But if you expect bussing, she's not doing that either. This possible bad Eloh doesn't bus her teammates, she tiptoes around them while trying to hit someone else or just avoids them. So there is some degree of WIFOM.

I'm hesitating to lynch her because I generally suck at lynching her and it usually ends with some ugly "Eloh was busy and we lynched her for that" which makes me feel bad. The silver lining is that, despite her constant claims about being busy, she is actually putting a pretty high post output in this game. It's low compared to most players, but that's because you all are fucking insane which is not her fault.

It annoys me how she buddies people. Everyone. A lot. I feel like she has buddied me alone at least 5 times. But I don't remember if Civ Eloh or baddie Eloh usually do that, if you guys wanna point that out I'll be thankful.

I'm also taking everything with a grain of salt because there is obviously some confirmation bias here and I haven't ISO'd anyone else. I got curious since other people mentioned her interactions with WIlgy made her bad and decided to check. But well, it's done, not gonna delete this post.

So in conclusion. I'll maybe lynch her. If I can overcome my general empathy and paranoia over having mislynched her in the past. And if I Quin doesn't say some uber scummy shit again in the next 36 hours.

Ok I'll adress it now, but I won't reply everything since a lot of paragraphs are theories where the only thing I can do is say "no".

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm Please take a look at this DDL stuff.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:32 pm
Thah'ts why I compared low posters to zero posters.

There is that guy who makes 3-4 posts a day and contributes nothing. Sprityo, Sig and Wilgy could count on that category (personally I think Sprityo looks bad and I have no read on the other 2).

There is that guy who makes 1 post every 2 days saying hi and is a prime candidate for a replacement. I. e. Dom.

I think the former type can be a worthy lynch (though I'd like to ISO any of them before deciding). The later is not.

DDL mentions Wilgy in a list of "worthy lynch" low-posters, but puts the attention on sprityo.

Sprityo was indeed the scummiest person in this game for a while until dunya came and ruined everything.

Sig and Wilgy were just "the other two inactives".

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:04 pm I'm also bothered by the lack of votes in this day.

If Jay is bad, it would make sense for there to be some counter-wagon by now (maybe Wilgy is the counter wagon?). And I don't like how everyone who is voting for Jay is someone I'm currently townreading (well there is Jack, but I like current Jack more than Day 1 Jack so i'm still on the fence about him). Maybe mafia is just watching from afar, since the civs are doing their dirty work for them. So they don't need to expose themselves, by making bussing too obvious or risking discussion going against them.

ARGH! This one gives me the creeps too! The whole "bothered by the lack of votes" concerned-Civ schtick? Anyone reading this, please be objective, because I feel the tunnel closing in. And that's just the appetizer in this post.

That whole second paragraph, I don't even know how to talk about it, like setting up Wilgy as the opposing counterwagon... that makes him seem more Civ if Jay is bad, right? Or is the whole Jay-Wilgy suspicion just a grand manipulation by the shadowed baddies? MAYBE THEY'RE BOTH CIV, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING?

I'm second guessing my Jay scum read in this post, and in the parenthesis I'm second-second guessing my Jay scum second guessing. So I'm working with both the Jay = civ theory and the Wilgy = civ theories at the same time.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:39 pm On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Vague dismissive avoidance allows you to not contribute to Wilgy suspicion, but not defend him either.

Ok here is the story. In the last games I recall playing with Wilgy, I respectively:

1- Read him as civ all game, except in the last day where I decided tracking him after having tracked everyone else, which revealed me he was bad. And lost the game because I couldn't convince Gman he was bad.
2- Started a CFD on him on Day 1 for a stupid ass reason. He was civ.

Before then, I already considered Wilgy to be like a second marmot, and basically unreadable. These two games were my attempt to break away from that. It backtracked fabulously.

So yes, I'm avoiding reading Wilgy like the plague. Yes, I know it makes me look bad in light of the recent Wilgy reveal. Nothing I can do about it.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:49 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:45 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:44 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:41 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:39 pm On Wilgy: I can't read him to save my life. That's why I'm mostly avoiding him.

Pokemon mafia was fun. I am sorry for that however.

I was already aware of my difficulty reading you before then, tbh. You could say I let my guard down in that game.

I did track you, though. But fuck G-Man.

Lmao, ain't that some shit.

DDL can you guess my top two Civ reads?

Do I win money if I do it? It sounds hard.

Let's say... nutella and Epi?

This whole exchange.

I have no idea what was going in Wilgy's mind when he asked that.; And I doubt I ever will.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:02 am Took a quick review of EoD3:

- Nutella and Eoi look great
- Speedchuck looks off for jumping on Wilgy to save himself instead of Jay. Could see a Jay/Speed team-up.
- Bob looks Eh. He dropped out of the Jay thing when people started doing t, but jumped in again when they started coming bck. Jack looks similar to Bob in that regard.
- Eloh looks bad too.
- Sloonei looks awful. I bet he has the worst vote tracking out of anyone this game. The way he kept doing 180º turns on Jay, and those turns matched the flow of the thread is pingy as fuck, and also looks artificial. I'm only second doubting it because it threads close to "so bad it's good" territory, I actually doubt a true bad Sloonei would goof that hard. The Night 3 lynch feels similar too.

It ain't something that incriminates Wilgy, more like the opposite? In spirit anyway?

If Speed is also bad I'll lol hard.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:47 pm Ok Sloon I'll bite.

DDL: can you look at this cute face and not think it belongs to a completely innocent person?
Dr. WIlgy: normal Wilgy is such a delight to see I'm still drunk on it. Not a very strong reason so it remains a neutral read.
dunya: she feels legit. And her vote tracking is so crappy (opposing Jay lynch etc) it's hard to believe she would do it on purpose.
Elohcin: I can't read Elohcin for shit, and she seems like she really cares about the game which is not the case every game.
Kylemii: Well he is contributing. A lot. And my suspicion on him is a real case of tunneling so I might be completely wrong.
Long Con: he is so casual about the game it feels legit, a mafia might care more about his appearance.
ninja: I just flipped a coin and called heads if she was good. I got heads.
Nutella: lynch mechanics. Also feels casual like LC.
Quin: well he is being legit. He's not lying about that. The question is whether he is being legit as civ or doing that thing where you use your honesty to look good as bad.
Sig: I called tails this time, and got tails.
Sloonei: mechanics.
Speedchuck: been getting a "looks sincere"gut feeling since day 1. And he was the CFD against Jay so...

Neutral read. The guy you have never said a bad thing about, won't lynch, and just enjoy having around for personal reasons.

Yes, I don't usually lynch neutral reads. Not before scum reads. And yes, I was enjoying having him around.[/quote]

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:23 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:06 pm Oh I like this.

I guess that would be Wilgy. And Eloh. Kyle too.

Quin's one reminded me that he does sound legit in spite of everything.

My mind is not working. Is he saying that Wilgy is one of the three least-convincing Civ reads? That would be the first negative thing he has said.

Pretty much. Was the least convincing civ read I had at the point. Which goes in line with my "I want to keep pretending Wilgy doesn't exist kthxbye" stance I had all game.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:32 pm I see. I was just going off your post:

I voted for him before going to bed.

But other people were on him. I think Sloonei, Jack, Speed and Nutella. Some of them left.

Makes it sound like the other people were on when you voted. Sorry if that's a mistake.

I don't recall the order for that anymore. You'll have to reread the thread.

But I think I was one of the first because I started going after Jay in the previous night.

Yes I had a tinfoil moment where I thought Jay was good. Basically I read dunya's empathy burst and took it further with a "scum is letting Jay die" theory. So I voted someone else to see if any new and exciting reactions would come. They didn't, time passed, and I realized I had to decide on a lynch before going to sleep. I did a soul searching and decided that tinfoil or not, Jay hadn't done anything to warrant a civ read. So I voted him back.

[mention]Long Con[/mention]

I'll reply to other points later, but you should be aware at this point that the order of votes that shows in the poll is not the actual vote order. Blame the new Syndicate host service or whatever.

I was one of the first to vote Jay, and if you remove the people who abandoned it to focus on Wilgy and Speed, I was probably the first or second oldest vote.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:49 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:25 am Yay...a baddie! I think we got lucky with that one. I didn't see anything against wilgy as he seemed his normal self. But I'm glad y'all went for it.

I'm a little stressed today. Grocery shopping was atrocious and I have one more cake to complete for thia week. This is day seven in a row working without a day off. Granted I've done 14 days in a row before, but still.
Alright....off to work. Be back later.

"Got lucky"

Same thing me and Epi said about Quin could apply here.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:55 am So here's the deal. I see some of you contributing this lynch to Sloonei. Nuh uh. I'm taking at least half-credit if it kills me. And it very well might. Thanks for following. It's the one read I've been confident with all game.

Now, as I said far beforethe deadline, I'm looking at Eloh as Wilgy teammate. Her interactions with wilgy in early game are short, read over them. When I went through Wilgy's ISO, I got the feeling that they were aligned. Highly recommend a lynch there tomorrow.

Then there's the fourth teammate. I have no frickin clue. It's not Sloonei, it's not me. I really doubt it's quin or Dunya. DDL actually seems most likely, ignoring my townread of him. Nutella, if it weren't for mechspec, would possibly be a candidate. And then, of course, Blooper and Sig.

I have 90% confidence that our two scum are in these five suspects. About 70% confidence that one of them is Elohcin. If I die tonight, take a good look there. If I don't die, I'll pester you all to make sure you do.

What about Kyle and Quin?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:32 am I gave people something to consider before lynching Wilgy. You translated that to 'spent hours tinfoiling about him being a civrole'.
I voted out of self-preservation. You translated that to 'jumping on the wagon that provides the highest chance of saving Wilgy'.



Please be bad.

Why Eloh instead of Wilgy?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:47 am I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

dunya wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:40 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:35 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:47 am I was supposed to be typing up a short letter for an old professor so he can finalize my grad school recommendation tonight. Instead I'm here for another hour

Good news guys, I wrote the email! but i'm not sending it til the morning because i'll look like a weirdo if the timestamp reads "2:30 AM".

dude the number of times my advisor has sent me "did you wake up at 2/3/4am or did you send that before bed" is alarming.

So guys.

This is like, just a game.

If you are losing sleep to see the EoD, then you should consider giving up on seeing the EoD.

Just a friendly advice.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:10 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:07 am Frankly for someone who didn't know what the case on me was yesterday, it's a bit overconfident of him to say that

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:54 am Quin needs to go.

ddl has been very unforthcoming with his reads and for the most part he seems to be relying on "gut" first and foremost. This could be a tactic to hide. He feels very raw and authentic to me. I don't want to lynch him. I don't want to lynch you either.
Talk to me about Elohcin.

The issue is that I simply have not had the energy to put the same effort most of you had put since the start of the game.

I look at someone's ISO, see it has 400 posts, and back down.

So I'm looking for lazy ways to stay contributive.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:07 am Frankly for someone who didn't know what the case on me was yesterday, it's a bit overconfident of him to say that

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:54 am Quin needs to go.

Just read Epi's posts again.

He made the case. I'm just sheeping it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:07 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:05 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:04 am Wtf is going on

You tell us

I just got here dude. Why aren't we lynching Dunya, Sig, Quin or LC?

One of those four is bad. But probably not two.

Also nice CFD attempt when the Wilgy lynch seems inevitable.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:03 am Can't we all come to a compromise and lynch DDL?

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:56 am Let's start with Quin.

This is the progression of DDL's case on me today. Starting, and ending.

Yesterday his case progressed from "I don't get the Quin lynch" to "I do this when bad, therefore Quin does this when bad." That wasn't what the Quin lynch was about. He never discusses what the Quin lynch was about.

It felt like he wanted a reason to suspect me that was his own so he didn't appear as though he was sheeping the main case.

Cry me a river.

All this speculation on who K2 is is making me wish I had a cushionon my desk so hitting my head there would hurt less.

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:44 am I voted Eloh for now. I don't think 3J was bussing her though. I've done a 180 on Wilgy, could vote for him. His lower activity sets him up as a plausible bussing target to gain early civ cred while minimising damage.

Could vote for him.

After spending the lastfew hourstinfoiling about him being a civrole.

But people are not buying it, so you change to "could vote for him" while jumping on the wagon that provides the highest chance of saving Wilgy.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:40 am K2 speculation on our suspects is fine, but do we really need to do mafia's work for them in narrowing down between people like Sloonei and Dunya?

To be fair I always assume that if town can figure something out, mafia has already done it.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:18 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:14 am Maybe I'm crazy but I can't see LC as a civvie in this game. He has to be mafia or indie.

The indie part is what keeps me from voting for him.

If it helps, the indie role looks like it can only win with town, according to the OP. So the indie is basically town with an extra win condition.

Indy>=town.

But I could see LC as a civvie. 'Could' being the key word.

linki: you're kidding, right sloon?

Where did you see that

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:00 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:20 pm Did more thinking about Sloonei's reason for civ questions. I don't have the time to list em out or explain right now, but the ones I had the hardest time validating as civs were (and in this order) Niju-sig, Dunya, Long Con, Quin. With everyone else, I can see them in a civ light easier.

I missed wilgy's results. Including him our tally looks like this:

niju - 5
DrWilgy - 4
Long Con - 4
Elohcin - 3
Quin - 3
Kylemii - 2
Sig - 2
Speedchuck - 2
dunya - 1

That makes dunya our only player to earn a single nod in this exercise, and bumps ninjablooper up into the lead because she's a coin flip.

Also you, me and Nutella are the only players with zero nods.

Speed is looking supatown now

I like to believe mafia wouldn't let a CFD start on a third member of their faction when Jay and Wilgy were already leading the poll.

The problem is this civ read exercise is that now I don't want to lynch anyone. Help.

I definitely don't wanna lynch LC tho. He feels civ. If this starts to become a wagon I'm saving him unless the other option is say, Sloonei.

I want to lynch Eloh because I don't like how she is been buddying with posts from everyone all the time.

But I don't want to lynch Eloh because I feel I'm always mislynching Eloh.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:29 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:25 pm Reasons I can read everyone as town:

Dragon D. Luffy - I have "mind-melded" with DDL on a couple of occasions, and he made one defensive post early on which read as highly emotional and passionate, the kind of thing I don't see being faked.
DrWilgy - Jay went after him hard.
dunya - Believable-as-heck tone, has put as much work as anyone into the thread despite numerous RL reasons not to.
Elohcin - She was Jay's top lynch priority on Day 3 when prompted to name any suspect at all. This would have to be a very aggressive bussing strategy for them to be teammates. This is also among the most involved games I've seen Elohcin play.
nijuukyugou - Finally a post from this player slot! Insertglorfblooper is town because there's no way two players fail to pick up a scum role card, right?
Kylemii - Believable tone. Has put a high volume of content into the thread without ever appearing seriously uncomfortable.
Long Con - He's a fearless scumster, but appears less involved than usual this game.
nutella - Possibly Everest. Helped kickstart the Jay bandwagon on Day 3.
Quin - I believe his tone, he aggressively defended Jay, and Jay may have been making a concerted effort to pocket Quin.
sig - Jay tried to lynch him.
Sloonei - Role card says so.
speedchuck - Similar to Long Con, though I have at times also felt like Speedchuck has presented some sincere thoughts and doubts in the thread.

I'm heading out for a few hours and I'd like for this exercise to actually lead somewhere today, so I'll explain myself and ask The Question now and hope that it helps in some area.

The purpose of this exercise is to get us all thinking about the possibility that each player is town, because that is a possibility obviously. After going through and making the list, my question for all the kind folks who participation is this: which pro-town arguments were the hardest for you to come up with, or which arguments did you find least convincing?

For me the players I struggled with/were least convinced by are: Long Con, nijuukyugou, wilgy, and speedchuck. Those are the players I'd be inclined to follow up on as a result of this for myself. But the point of gathering as many folks as possible is so that we can all compare our answers. So I'd like a response to this from everybody who participated. @dunya @DrWilgy @speedchuck @Kylemii

I'd still be happy if more people wanted to take a crack at this and I appreciate those of you who have gone through with this at my incessant begging. Thanks.

Oh I like this.

I guess that would be Wilgy. And Eloh. Kyle too.

Quin's one reminded me that he does sound legit in spite of everything.

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 pm DDL, read this and explain to me why Sloonei is mechanically cleared

Him being cleared has nothing to do with the day 2 lynch, or any other lynch.

Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to provide a public service for you. Courtesy of my dear friend Superman from Naruto Forums:

Here is how you read DDL, if you forget about him for any length of time he is blending scum

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/co ... t-57060549

I hope this assists you on the task of reading my alignment.

[mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Ok Sloon I'll bite.

DDL: can you look at this cute face and not think it belongs to a completely innocent person?
Dr. WIlgy: normal Wilgy is such a delight to see I'm still drunk on it. Not a very strong reason so it remains a neutral read.
dunya: she feels legit. And her vote tracking is so crappy (opposing Jay lynch etc) it's hard to believe she would do it on purpose.
Elohcin: I can't read Elohcin for shit, and she seems like she really cares about the game which is not the case every game.
Kylemii: Well he is contributing. A lot. And my suspicion on him is a real case of tunneling so I might be completely wrong.
Long Con: he is so casual about the game it feels legit, a mafia might care more about his appearance.
ninja: I just flipped a coin and called heads if she was good. I got heads.
Nutella: lynch mechanics. Also feels casual like LC.
Quin: well he is being legit. He's not lying about that. The question is whether he is being legit as civ or doing that thing where you use your honesty to look good as bad.
Sig: I called tails this time, and got tails.
Sloonei: mechanics.
Speedchuck: been getting a "looks sincere"gut feeling since day 1. And he was the CFD against Jay so...

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:28 pm Dragon D. Luffy -
Civ due to tone and reasoning. I've meta read him as civ the entire game.
Bad due to voting record. DDL had voted for Jack day 2, Bob day 3 (when J3 was a heavily discussed option), If my memory serves was a lead pusher of the Malakim wagon.

I ended up voting for Jay. Then went to bad before people started dropping the Jay wagon, so I wasn't even a late joiner.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:54 pm Cbob did read Sloonei as mechanically near-confirmed town before N2 was over. Hm.

Sloonei is mechanically near confirmed town and I hope I don't have to explain why.

The list will probably boil down to the word "gut" being repeated 17 times tho.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:20 pm @Dragon D. Luffy, care to give us a list of reasons to read everyone as town?

Yes, but give me a few hours.

dunya wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:21 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:33 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 am

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 am RIP epi and welcome niju

Ugh I'm not feeling super confident about anything and would go along with whatever tbh. I'd vote for Sig, I'd vote for Quin, I'd maybe vote for Kyle, heck I'd even vote for Sloonei. LC and DDL I'm less inclined to suspect but I could be wrong.

I'm having a hard time trusting anyone at this point and that's sad this late in the game.

Let's talk about why we think mafia would kill epi. Do you think we can glean any info from that?

He was one of the most civ looking players in the game.

If that was the reason, they'd have targeted nutella or sloonei imo.

They targeted Daisy (also very civ looking), Jack (a town leader whose civ-status seemed to be increasing), and another three people who might include those you mentioned.

So far I think they have picked good targets. You could argue Nutella is not a high poster enough to be such an immediate threat, while Sloonei's presence made the eventual Bob lynch more likely which is good for them.

But the problem is that he hasn't exactly tunneled on Sig, which is what I'd expect a cop with results to do.

He hasn't tunneled on anybody, to be fair.

Bob has going against Sig since the start of Day 2. There is a goodchance he was investigated.I can see myself voting Sig too.

Mafia needs to eliminate all the players they cannot lynch. Or when the game approaches theend, the mafiosos will be lynched instead.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:28 am

nutella wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:31 am RIP epi and welcome niju

Ugh I'm not feeling super confident about anything and would go along with whatever tbh. I'd vote for Sig, I'd vote for Quin, I'd maybe vote for Kyle, heck I'd even vote for Sloonei. LC and DDL I'm less inclined to suspect but I could be wrong.

I'm having a hard time trusting anyone at this point and that's sad this late in the game.

Let's talk about why we think mafia would kill epi. Do you think we can glean any info from that?

He was one of the most civ looking players in the game.

Let's start with Quin.

Going from Bob's posts: he votes Sig on Day 2 right out of the bat, which implies hehasa bad result on Sig. But weirdly, he stops talking much about it afterwards. Later he goesstrong against Jack on Day 3, which suggests a result (the wrong one). He also attacks Kyle, but it's less than Jack, so it's unlikely to be a result imo.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:59 pm Was Quin civ or bad in CC123?

Was there even such a thing?

Exactly my point.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:03 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:54 am Quin needs to go.

I'm tired of Kyle doing his "watch the poll and jump on a civ at the end of the phase" routine every day. He needs to be held accountable for that.
And I've been reading him bad on gut feeling all game

that's not what I do at all. I vote late and only vote between players with votes cus one time vote polls are what I grew up on. saving your vote til late and reviewing everything til last minute was the only way for me to be sure not to regret things so it formed as a habit.

I've put thought into every single vote I've made. attempting to paint it as 'drop a vote on at the end of the day' is a bad look for you.

. And I think he slipped on the "her" thing. I've been avoiding ISOs all game, but after I'm done with Quin I'm doing it on Kyle, confirmation bias be danmed.

And if Kyle flips bad, then I bet the last scum is lacking a Y chromossome. Eloh is the only one of the three I'm not reading as civ right now.

It wasn't a slip, I used she cus I was talking about dunya, a player who's been consistently screwed over by many of the poll times. You're ignoring the context of the post in order to focus on a single word.

Ok that's fair enough. Then it's less in the field of slip and more like "should we lynch kyle/dunya if the other flips bad" that is more subjective.

I mean, I get your point,but I think CC123 has too many details that disturb data since it is a different game with different goals.

Was Quin civ or bad in CC123?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:07 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:10 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 am I don't need new theories.

We were lynching Quin last night. There were 5 votes on him.

Why did we stop, and why can't we come back?

Okay...still sitting and reading with cup #2. I want to carch up!

This is kind of how I feel. We talk about lynching someone, start voting, the votes trickle elsewhere, and we never come back to our original suspicion. Why is this?

Because we stupid.

I don't even think the little mountains are responsible.

Most civ lynches are usually caused by civs being stupid.

Elohcin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:10 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:45 am I don't need new theories.

We were lynching Quin last night. There were 5 votes on him.

Why did we stop, and why can't we come back?

Okay...still sitting and reading with cup #2. I want to carch up!

This is kind of how I feel. We talk about lynching someone, start voting, the votes trickle elsewhere, and we never come back to our original suspicion. Why is this?

I feel like this is the 10th time you're buddying with a post of mine in this game.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:00 am I'm not actually thinking that, I'm just debunking any fool proof logic with "there was 5 votes on Quin...why did we stop"

That was not an attempt to "foolproof" anything.

That was a question. And I'm asking it to everyone:

Why did we stop?

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:56 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:54 am Quin needs to go.

I'm tired of Kyle doing his "watch the poll and jump on a civ at the end of the phase" routine every day. He needs to be held accountable for that. And I've been reading him bad on gut feeling all game. And I think he slipped on the "her" thing. I've been avoiding ISOs all game, but after I'm done with Quin I'm doing it on Kyle, confirmation bias be danmed.

And if Kyle flips bad, then I bet the last scum is lacking a Y chromossome. Eloh is the only one of the three I'm not reading as civ right now.

that's clearly pushing imo.

You're backtracking in your last post.

I'm not backtracking.

I like pressure. I want to pressure Quin. Make him sweat. Make others sweat.

But in the meantime, you people want to point my pressure at better directions, I'm smart enough to listen to you.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:51 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:47 am I mean, I'm not saying I'm completely sure on Quin. I welcome new theories on him being scum or civ.

Just saying, we should at least keep our radar where it is before dismissing it for "Bob didn't flip bad so that specific theory is dead".

I don't think any of these things is what you actually have been saying and implying in the thread. You came in strong and hard against Quin. Perhaps you weren't as strong against Kyle, or even Eloh, but no where did you indicate you're wishy washy on Quin.

And literally no one said to dismiss it. In fact, I said many people will be theorizing why Quin is scum so I won't have to dwell on that.

I've been wishy washy on everybody since the beginning.

I still need totake initiative, even if I'm notsure of my reads, because otherwise we can't win.

Just because I don't add "I might be wrong" at theend of my votes doesn't mean I'm not second guessing myself.

I mean, I'm not saying I'm completely sure on Quin. I welcome new theories on him being scum or civ.

Just saying, we should at least keep our radar where it is before dismissing it for "Bob didn't flip bad so that specific theory is dead".