The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:48 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:42 pm Example 1

I just want to say that when I clicked on this and scrolled over the post, I almost spit laughing at SPF dropping an insta-vote right after the wall.

LOL!

That was a fun game amiright

I don't understand the argument around Nanook's handling of lucy/Alison looking genuine. Mainly, it's that 8 hours before he made the post Sabi is talking about, he called lucy/Alison/Marmot a winning POE.

Is it that he backed off what he said based on lucy's posts which he hadn't previously seen? I guess I get it. He didn't really townread lucy to begin with, or even defend her, so much as counter something Alison said.

Idk

Before I do that, I'll mention my thoughts on esooa.

She subbed into Philosopher II Mafia as a wolf on Day 2, and did some stream of consciousness style posting in that game.

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

The first example is a reads list, but it's huge and still falls under this SoC category.

I'll see if I can find a town game where she does this. Esooa if you know of one, please share it.



The reason I bring this up is that she did this towards the EOD1 here where she engaged OW with a really long post where it started by asking about lucy/Alison interactions, then asked OW to explain his wolfread on Sparkles, then starts to meander about all sorts of other reads Esooa has.

My qualm with this post is that I can look at it and easily see that Esooa was trying to bury a defense of a partner in a wall of text. Something that she did in Philosopher II Mafia. See Example 1, and how she talked about anne and MacDougall.

I don't remember Nook's EOD, I'll look.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:27 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:26 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:23 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:20 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:17 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:14 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:05 pm

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

I know how she plays, she's a good player that can read players well when she plays her way.

Just let her do it her way and she catches scum.

You haven't played with Lucy enough.

I don't think playing with lucy more will fix this problem. I've played two other games with her, and she played differently in each of those games and was town.

Let's put this behind us though. We spent all day yesterday talking about why we chopped lucy, and we don't really need to dive back into it. Time to move on to spicytown.

I won't speak for falcon on that one @Sabiplz

Also my last post submitted before I was finished, but I wanted to add that I'm not faulting lucy for doing her thing, but no one should be excused for being chopped Day 2.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:23 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:20 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:17 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:14 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:05 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:02 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

NO ONE wanted to vote park Lucy

She was literally trolling and self voting and doing nothing else

Why tf are you defending that as if there's anything to do but exe her lmao

Because I know how lucy plays.

You just ignore her for a bit.

Yall all came into D2 giving her zero space to breathe.

What the fuck do you expect her to do?

She's going to troll back. That's what she does.

Oh she should have tried or whatever. Why? Because Alison was conf biased and she also doesn't play like that.

She has her own play style, which is unorthodox, but it works. It catches scum like illario during champs. it catches dizzy in asmr.

We shouldn't reward uncooperative players or punish players who are willing to make strong stances. We need the latter, especially in mountainous games.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:21 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:18 pm Alison as the kill over Jay makes sense in a lot of worlds imo. In the world where Jay is scum, it's obvious why. In the world where Jay is town, the final wolf knows that Alison will come into Day 3 realizing she'll have to build a new world view with lucy flipping town, and imo she's a scarier townie than Jay to face as a wolf.

Obviously Jay could just be a wolf, I'm considering this world too. I still think is progression on Sparkles is rand!town though

Folks used to fear me more when I was mean. I should be mean again.

Spoiler: show

This in no way reflects on Alison, and I have no intention of being mean

I know you have solid accuracy, but from my experience as a wolf (when you're town), you will probably read me correctly at some points, but you'll probably go pursue a million other thought processes, so the pressure isn't as big of a deal.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:17 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:14 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:05 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:02 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

I saw that in her as well, but it also felt as tho she's kind of along for the ride if that makes sense...GTH she's town tho


Nanook is hard for me to read thus far...he's not done anything overly towny or scummy

that's very uncharitable view of me in the last two days.

I was the one fighting against a lucy mischop till I gave up because everyone wanted to park their vote on lucy and check out.

You did go along with it, but you've done more than that, and we requested you to go along with it, so I don't think you can be faulted for that.

Alison as the kill over Jay makes sense in a lot of worlds imo. In the world where Jay is scum, it's obvious why. In the world where Jay is town, the final wolf knows that Alison will come into Day 3 realizing she'll have to build a new world view with lucy flipping town, and imo she's a scarier townie than Jay to face as a wolf.

Obviously Jay could just be a wolf, I'm considering this world too. I still think is progression on Sparkles is rand!town though

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:09 pm @Marmot what's your current impression of Wilgy?

I'd be surprised if he was scum after seeing his Day 1. I've never seen that level of effort and transparency in though that we saw from him as scum. Frankly, I haven't seen it as town either, although he has strayed closer to it.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 3:02 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I tend to agree.


Thoughts on Sabi?

I still have a gut TR on everyone except for esooa and Nanook, including Sabi.

I liked Sabi's attempts to push the game forward yesterday while we were sleepwalking to lucy chop, and find that townie. Maybe that's a lazy read, but I'm still willing to buy it.

How about you?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:58 pm I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

And by that, I mean that Sparkles was probably going over anyway when she made that vote.

I'm going to look at esooa again. Her wallposts on Day 1 I tend to associate with w!esooa, but I want to see if it's something that she does as town.

Even thought she voted Sparkles, it was at the very end of Day 1, after I said I wouldn't vote OW.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME you should redo your POE, I don't belong in it.

lucy lied, I played a turbo with her last night where she made Day 1 reads as town.

Hi

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:31 pm after jjj finishes his dissertation dr jjj will prescribe you psilocybin

@JaggedJimmyJay so many possibilities!

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:23 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:19 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:15 pm what drugs have you done @Marmot

Weed on occasion and mushrooms once.

I have a mild interest in trying lsd, mdma, and psilocybin at some point, albeit in a very controlled environment.

What about you?

just weed, i wanna alter how i experience things but not by much tbh

I'm not really an expert, but I have many friends who are who I refer to with such questions.

Thanks for spicing up Day 2

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:24 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:16 pm I'm towncoring Sabie in real life after this page, you sound like a really phenomenal person based on your work and life experiences

Side note: I thought we had a site rule about talking about illegal activities/substances, but I can't find it so I won't enforce it.

i can’t say i looked, thank god you couldn’t find it, agreed on sabi

I think we used to have one, and possibly at some point we removed/rephrased it. Now all we have is this:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:33 am Illegal activity and proprietary law
- All users are responsible for respecting and adhering to the laws of their respective nations, states/provinces/regions, and localities pertaining to Internet activity in all Syndicate spaces. As a general rule, do not engage in copyright violations, plagiarism, or similar proprietary violations.

which seems to indicate that our current discussion is fine. (I mean, we're in a mafia game, so if this becomes prolonged it should probably be taken elsewhere for that reason)

And anyway, weed and psilocybin* are legal and Oregon, and all other drugs are decriminalized.

*psilocybin I think is only legal in clinical settings atm

I mostly read Jay's posts and agree with them. I'm in a similar boat of methodology today, which involves:

kill lucy first => if that's wrong, go after Nanook and esooa


I think I'll still POE Alison to round things out, but some of the content Jay's brought up indicate that Sparkles did want to kill Alison on Day 1, albeit that could just be distancing, since it came after Sparkles' wagon caught steam.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:15 pm what drugs have you done @Marmot

Weed on occasion and mushrooms once.

I have a mild interest in trying lsd, mdma, and psilocybin at some point, albeit in a very controlled environment.

What about you?

I'm towncoring Sabie in real life after this page, you sound like a really phenomenal person based on your work and life experiences

Side note: I thought we had a site rule about talking about illegal activities/substances, but I can't find it so I won't enforce it.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:33 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:31 pm

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:29 pm This is why I'm #fragile

what other drugs have u done sabi

Weed, acid, shrooms, research chems, coke, dmt, Molly, and ketamine

Now I just stick to weed and shrooms because I'm old and shrooms helps with my chronic migraines.

JaggedJimmyJay's drug of choice is ISO

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:18 pm Most boring d2

We can get spicy if it's wrong, how does that sound?

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 2:18 pm u have to find the reasons yourself bucko

I think Alison's question is as much trying to figure out why you think the things that you do, and less about why we should believe the thing.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:52 pm i wish to renounce alison from the church, plus sabi if you turbo alison u throw

Please don't make accusations of game-throwing. Any townie without TMI can't possibly gamethrow by voting for someone who is not them (in a mountainous game)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:22 pm Dumbest read in the thread: Sparkles calling Marmot "Marmy" was a pocket

She's called me Marmy for ages, from discord games, PerC games, Town of Salem, etc

But you can consider her treatment of my otherwise as OMGUS followed by pocketing.

My POE is trending towards just lucy.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 1:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:50 pm

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:47 pm Alison and Lucy can both easily fit in the poe. It's fine. This is a pointless argument.

Agreed

I'm not quite ready to add Jay to the POE

....

Why would you?

That was more of a broad comment to the players voicing suspicion of Jay, namely falcon and lucy.

Ok, I'll take some time to towncase Jay, or at least defend why his approach to Sparkles probably comes from town.

Jay first looked at Sparkles before she was ever really a wagon. The following post came before Sparkles had any votes.


I voted directly after this post from Jay, albeit from something else that I noticed from Sparkles.

Jay then progresses with the following series of posts, including listing Sparkles as his top scumread.


Sparkles had one vote at this time (from me, an unexplained one), so Sparkles was not yet under any real pressure. Jay, as Sparkles' partner, is likely not looking to put a heavy-handed attempt at distancing with her. Jay is the last person you want to win as lone wolf in F3, because he will always die before that as town.

Eventually we see a vote from Jay. This comes after I make my initial suspicion, and OW places a vote, so this is the third vote on Sparkles. I don't recall the wagon composition at the time, but this likely helps put Sparkles in real contention as a wagon.


It's a very reasonable progression imo, and again, it's proactive enough that it probably comes from town.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:47 pm Alison and Lucy can both easily fit in the poe. It's fine. This is a pointless argument.

Agreed

I'm not quite ready to add Jay to the POE

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:04 pm I just don't think scum is going to self vote and ate as the last remaining scum person. There's no upside

I've done it in the past and it's worked at least once.

It's not optimal, but it's easy.

Lucy stated that it is logical that the wolf bussed Sparkles. I disagree. The wolves would not want to lose their only partner on Day 1. They would logically want to push elsewhere and not leave their partner to try and endgame alone. The wolves had a 64.6% chance of winning on Day 1, and they now have a 40.6% chance of winning.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:49 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:44 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:16 am What's the difference? And why does it matter if she is telling people that?

I'm too hungover to go through and post her ate from the vulture game.

Because there's no scum motivation for this and also goes against her wincon if she's scum.

The motivation of all scum ATE is to get people to stop voting them.

She hasn't asked anyone but you to stop voting her. She's asking everyone to not vote you.

What is the scum motivation

She seems convinced that mafia bussed Sparkles, and therefore esooa and myself (her other two voters) are POE'd.

I don't agree with her. Well, I do agree that esooa would be the most likely bus vote on the Sparkles wagon, but I don't agree that is necessarily how Sparkles' partner handled her, nor that is the first place we should look.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:58 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:49 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:44 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:30 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 10:16 am What's the difference? And why does it matter if she is telling people that?

I'm too hungover to go through and post her ate from the vulture game.

Because there's no scum motivation for this and also goes against her wincon if she's scum.

The motivation of all scum ATE is to get people to stop voting them.

She hasn't asked anyone but you to stop voting her. She's asking everyone to not vote you.

What is the scum motivation

She has directly said that town will lose if we vote her out.

She said "it’s a terrible scenario" not "town will lose". Yeah it does imply it, but that isn't direct.

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:26 am

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 8:12 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:43 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:29 am

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:55 pm Alison tried to force lucy to be a cw to sparkles.

Alison weird comments in eod.

The math isn't matching.

Do you think lucy is town?

I don't think she's scum.

What has she done to make you think she isn't scum?

Because right now she is caring more about her ego than winning this game as scum. She's not the kind of person to abandon her wincon if she's the last scum member. She cares more about teaching you a lesson.

I don't think Lucy's trying to teach Alison a lesson, but I'm curious what you mean by that

The voters on Lucy's wagon spell LAME, and that's what it feels like right now tbh

I'm gonna make coffee and then actually open up some ISOs.

I'll just assume you meant sparkles.

Nanoook probably hadn't read it

Sabi spew?

Jay hasn't voted. That's weird.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:48 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:45 am Is that a concession?

god you’re thick

:/

I really have no idea.

lucy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 28, 2022 12:44 amgg i was katze

gg katze

Is that a concession?

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:44 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:42 pm Here is the brief summary of why everyone else is town. Ping me if you need specific explanation on each case.

Sabiplz - Out of their wolf range, gains nothing by pushing me yesterday. Tried to veto one of the only other alternative exes to Sparkles. Sparkles blatantly tried to pocket and manipulate them.

DrWilgy - Broke out of their slanker meta, unlikely for them to do so as wolf. Signal boosted my scumread on Sparkles. No reason at all for them to do a complete 180 on their read on me (from wolfreading me to townreading me) when Sparkles was in danger and I was scumreading her.

Esooa - Had the exact same reads as me all game, shielded me when people were distrustful, tunnelled lucy all day but switched to Sparkles on a dime. My personal sense is that she'd powerwolf in this scenario too.

falcon45a - Absurdly townie, voted a mafia. Both me and Esooa godread him town.

Marmot - Sparkles was practically on her knees begging him to switch his vote from her (mafia) to me (town)... and he responded by saying "that's manipulative, ima vote you". Obvious town.

Esooa isn't clear bucko, wigly less clear, rest yeah

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:51 pm you are wrong about esooa

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:55 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:53 pm I have provided my arguments about why I think Esooa, Wilgy and probably Nook are town.

If you disagree, feel free to provide reasoning to the contrary.

the reasoning is not sufficient in clearing them

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:09 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:08 pm

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:05 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:04 pm You have failed in trying to shake me with base threats that a literal 8v1 will be lost because I was wrong on one person... especially because I don't even think I'm wrong on you. Feel free to peddle your fearmongering rhetoric elsewhere, because it will not work on me.

it should

instead of trying to convince people by saying nothings you may want to try explaining why you read anyone in any way

Like how I'm wolf

this is exactly something a wolf says

lucy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:28 pm @JaggedJimmyJay legacy is Esooa, their thought process is off

Ok fine, but I'm not moved by the argument presented in these posts.

[VOTE: lucy] aubergine

Alison proposed a thunderdome between the two of them, and it looks like lucy refused. Lucy may not scumread Alison, but she doesn't appear to scumread anyone right now. She is mentioning other names and pointing Alison and others in other directions, and proposing theories in the thread, but not doing much with it.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:04 pmI'm wolf

Hi wolf

Sabiplz wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:55 pm Alison tried to force lucy to be a cw to sparkles.

Alison weird comments in eod.

The math isn't matching.

Do you think lucy is town?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:46 pm That leaves JJJ and lucy. Jay hasn't been overtly scummy and his progression on Sparkles looks okay. He never really lead the charge against Sparkles at any time so it could just be him resigning himself to bussing. I'm surprised he hasn't dug into the Sparkle associatives since I think they immediately solve the game. Nevertheless, he is mostly in the POE because I cannot find any association that clears him.

Which leaves lucy. The person who has been playing in an extremely anti town way all of D1. If she is Sparkles' teammate, it would explain why the Sparkles wagon had hardly any resistance. She took time off her "not making any votes/reads" gimmick to slap a vote on the town counterwagon to mafia, without calling the vote. I would consider that pretty outing.

He did say he was busy, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt today.

Good synopses on the other players. Wolf!you has little to gain from narrowing their POE to 2 players, so I'm inclined to believe it comes from town.