The Syndicate

cassandra wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:01 am ok

how confident are people iaafr is town

ive been tinfoiling him hardcore

I haven't really questioned it lately, and I think yeeting a tinfoil read at this point probably isn't a good course of action.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:35 pm @falcon45ca This shit

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:12 pm I love the aesthetic similarity between rabbitposts and nutellaposts, as a general concept rather than a reference to this specific game. Swap their avatars and it's convincing.

iaafr is something resembling a green skittle. I don't have strong feelings but he seems okay. nutella is the absence of a skittle. I'm sure she'll do things when she feels like it so play on

And this shit

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:36 am nutella and iaafr tend to look good in their dealings with each other in a way that reminds me of my own dynamic with Sloonei. They speak the same language and in that interaction a purer expression of them seems to emerge. That might not be super clear; it’s dependent upon an abstract connection to a specific player. I’m not sure that is a universal experience for everyone.

Anyway I like their cooperative vibe

Neither of these have anything to do with alignment but Jay felt the need to raise this twice. He also put this in a very positive light. I read this very strictly as a W stapling a teammate to a V for shared credit to both. I don't think a wolf actively preaches cred for two V like this, this is a 50/50.

I like this post and agree with it

257 is my cap, see y'all in final hour.

203? And 205 is your cap? Damn you're close.

How close are you?

Mac, I'll race you to post cap.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:41 pm uhh

i dont really have that kind of coherent view of the game atm

like if i have to pick three names i'm tempted to just say anne/naa/wilgy but that feels kinda lame, i think there is likely a spicier wolf in spf or marmot

thinking about it i'm honestly quite comfortable taking cass and lime as town based on some tells and other people's confidence. i'm quite torn on esooa

Why does it feel lame? I think I know why you're saying that, I just wanna hear your explanation.

Also why are you torn on esooa?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:31 pm the calm before the storm...

Forecast says cloudy and wet with a chance of flashwagoning.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:35 pm How many hours til EOD? I'll likely be around

3.5ish hours (2.5 hours until everyone can talk again)

your face is a w/w wagon

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:51 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:46 pm I still think anne's wagon is weird because it was a counter wagon to Jay yesterday, and nutella is the only person who voted it both yesterday and is voting for it right now.

Also, 3 of the 5 people voting for anne right now either didn't vote yesterday (Dizzy, Sloonsooa) or voted a vanity wagon (iaafr).


Two of the people voting for anne yesterday are dead: Jay and MR

@falcon45ca @DrWilgy why aren't you voting for anne today?

Because it's weird like you said.

I don't think scum Anne would have had Jay on it. I think there's good reason to assume that both Anne and I are V/V as there was no one really concerned with moving votes from her to me prior to the Jay wagon. I was going out of my way to be an easy yeet for science, but there still wasn't a hard push for it.

I think there are world where Anne and you are still wolves, but I don't think that's a good avenue to pursue today, maybe if we end up being wrong in the future.

Rarely does it happen where several wolves become leading wagons in the same day. Dizzy and I watched it happen in a game we hosted earlier this year (and nutella and Mac were on that scum team, nutella being one of those wagons), but I don't think it's common at all.

Actually, now I'm curious if nutella has talked about that at all.

You're weird.

I still think anne's wagon is weird because it was a counter wagon to Jay yesterday, and nutella is the only person who voted it both yesterday and is voting for it right now.

Also, 3 of the 5 people voting for anne right now either didn't vote yesterday (Dizzy, Sloonsooa) or voted a vanity wagon (iaafr).


Two of the people voting for anne yesterday are dead: Jay and MR

@falcon45ca @DrWilgy why aren't you voting for anne today?

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:04 pm Wait EOD is at fucking 11:59 PM???

Our host was super cool and hung out with his friends Friday, so the day didn't start until 11:59 PM that day

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:17 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:06 pm This day feels rotten and I just wanna spice things up.

I'll be the spice in your life

:<

Ok

[VOTE: NAA] aubergine

This day feels rotten and I just wanna spice things up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:57 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:56 pm Yo Dizzy, that was you 101st post of the day

how many do I have left?

205 is your cap, so 8 left.

Yo Dizzy, that was you 101st post of the day

[VOTE: staypositivefriend] aubergine

Let's see what this button does.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:47 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:45 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:44 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:42 pm emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

if I can get myself killed by the mafia early when they're trying to get me mischopped that's more +ev for town than me making reads tbh

I recognized this too, which is another reason I've been mostly ignoring you today.

But you could probably offer a gamesolve since you're here, that would help that cause.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:44 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:42 pm emagherd if you nerds just let this play out the way I wanted I'd be killed by mafia without trying which would be hilar

just pretend to townread me and we will go away and you won't have to worry about us anymore... amazing stuff!

Yeah but this is mafia so you should find wolves, not just survive.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:40 pm if roles arent tied to alignments, then why was the mafia presumably informed when mac and falcon became lovers? if the roles are written to be alignment-neutral then it doesnt really make sense to me that a condition of their role would be: "the mafia will find out when you do X", but maybe i shouldnt think about it

My role also has a clause written in it based on whether I rand town or mafia, so it doesn't surprise me that theirs would too.

If Mac is town and being truthful with his claim, we do lose two players today if we yeet him. The risk is twice as large as yeeting someone else.

I don't think the claim is specifically townie, just that it is perceivable from a town PoV. It's also a claim that a scum can hide behind without having to prove or demonstrate anything going forward, and it keeps two of them in the clear at once (or possibly only one if falcon is still town)

Mac's explanation kinda makes sense if the role is exactly what it says it is.

The thing I'm still having trouble with is why falcon is unquestioningly persisting with a townread on Mac. I get that they might be lovers at this point, but he's not even trying to read him, despite not specifically knowing his alignment.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:11 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:08 pm I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

pick one idc

So you think that all of the mafia (I'm assuming there's no more than 3 left at this point) are currently lined up as your wagon, and they are specifically ilario/leetic, NAA, and spf, and we chop those 3 and that's game?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:08 pm I see the mafia are voting me

Who are they?

Also, just to call out where all of the mech claims are

Marmot - can break ties in the poll
Mac & falcon - neighbors, with a peek they can use on one of them that turns them into lovers
cassandra - protective role
anne - can crosscheck her target with a list of players and know if her target targeted any of those on the list
ilario & leetic - basically a hydra with two separate votes/faces
DrWilgy - vig whose visits are announced

nutella - no actual claim, but says she was blocked and anne said she targeted NAA



Did I miss anyone?

Friendly reminder that roles are not AI in any capacity (with the probable exception that ilario and leetic are the same alignment)

Ok I get it now, thanks anne. It seemed like info that you weren't supposed to know, so I was prodding in case it was a scumslip (in a world where you and nutella were partners and you did know who she targetd)

I have some bad news

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:52 pm Like without straight up pasting the role PM in here, the best I can describe it is like "each night you can pick a player and then submit a list of players in the game, if the first player targeted anyone on that list then you will know"

I think your recent explanation suggest I'm understanding it right, except that I don't know where NAA's name came from. Did you learn that part with your role?

The following players have already postcapped fwiw:

iaafr
cassandra
NotAnAxehole

And the following players have fewer than 15 posts left:

Dizzy
Esooa
ilario / leetic
Lime Coke
nutella

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:42 pm It was a mod error btw I was supposed to get feedback as to who exactly it was

Just to be clear. You can submit a list of people, and a target, and you can know if that target visited anyone on that list? And you should receive a "Yes" or "No" as your result?

But in actuality, you received the name of the person nutella targeted/visited, rather than just a simple "Yes" or "No"?


Also, I believe "target" would indicate that is the person who nutella used her night action on, and this would be seen if nutella was roleblocked, but "visited" means she actually went there, and this would not be seen if she was roleblocked.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:14 pm Also, wtf SPF voting me without knowing how to read me or interacting with me directly (outside of this interaction which I initiated), and complaining about being scum read by someone who "doesn't know how to read her, and who isn't interacting with her directly". This is a comedy skit.

This is funny because I'm also complaining about not being able to read you, but voting for you too.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:31 pm

anne wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:51 am but uh... at least we know nutella visited someone guys!!

How did you get to this? Nutella said her action failed.

That's a good point. Although I guess it's possible for nutella to visit someone but still fail? I'm a little confused, but not at the point where I think we need a claim from her.

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:07 pm Also, "we should kill from the D1 PoE, anyone from that pool is fine as long as we stop playing mafia"

[...]

"Except this player (Dizzy), I veto this player from the D1 PoE"

Is a pretty scummy take from SPF.

I disagree, I think her voicing a preference is fine


From your PoV, who is in the PoE and who isn't?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:59 am When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

Your first paragraph is a false equivalency fallacy. You don't have to 100% ignore the greencheck or 100% accept it. You can not be sure about it, you can question it. You don't seem to be doing that at all.



I'm comparing it to my scum game cuz your only stated reason for town reading me is based off a neighborhood check, not for my play at all.



Your also answering my questions with questions, which is interesting

I'm clearing you right now specifically because if Mac is town, you are always town, barring some weird lie from Mac. If Mac is scum, there is still a reasonable chance that you're town, but yes it is less certain.

That still doesn't seem related to your recent scum game, or if it is, I'm missing something.


Also, you didn't ask a question to begin with my dude.

When people are greenchecked, isn't it normal for them to be townread? Would you prefer I ignore it and scrutinize you otherwise falcon?

Why are you comparing this to one of your scum games?

Esooa wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:25 am Marmot - I've explained this one, already wrote enough in this post. Kinda having doubts about him mostly because of volume, I don't really know how capable he is of that as a wolf, but like, I don't really like the way most of his volume is made anyways tbh. It's all very disconnected, and especially when he explains his previous thoughts they're very empty. Like, when I asked him about the Nutella stuff, he gave very generic reasoning for the posts I quoted... but also didn't mention the thought processes going into some of his posts he made about Nutella around that time that I *didn't* quote

And like, if he's actually going thought his thought processes, it feels weird he wouldn't talk about that? Or just have more going on in general, tbh

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 am also i dunno, i still think that marmot is probably town. i can understand the argument for him being a wolf and ive gotten pinged by some of the reasoning in his readslist (particularly in the early game) but he just feels so expressive and heart-on-his-sleeve in a way that is totally diametrically opposed to the one wolf game ive seen from him

Well, these reads are quite different.

My perception of my scum meta is I have a hard time making large posts and posting a lot, because I micro-freeze like every other post.

I do feel a bit stifled by the atmosphere of this game in that I don't feel I can be lighter in tone due to the postcap and the roster. I think I've put undue pressure on myself to give this game a ton of effort as a result.


I also had a goal this year to get N1 killed by mafia, which is probably just never gonna happen, but I did approach Day 1 in the hopes it would happen.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:32 am okay actually now that i wrote that i dont feel like it's entirely fair and im overreacting to mild pressure

back to scumhunting

I felt better after getting it off my chest too tbh

cassandra wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:32 am just be me and hard claim your role and self vote and say that everyone is tunneling you and you must die today so to sheep your legacy despite having 0 votes on yourself spf

hardclaim role: check
self vote: check
said everyone is tunneling me: mostly
said I must die today: I've been really tempted, but am trying to maintain a more positive and productive tone

Hypertown

Marmot - Town
Lime Coke - His EOD1 looked great in how he handled the Jay wagon. I didn't pay him much attention early Day 1, but I see no reason to put him anywhere near the POE right now.
cassandra - Helped kick of the flashwagon of Jay. She'll remain a firm townread that I won't question until/unless we get a couple mischops.


Hypotown

iaafr - His EOD1 doesn't look great on the surface, given then he hopped off the Jay wagon at the last moment, but I've been constantly told that is his town meta, so I'm deferring on this one.
ilario / leetic - They did vote for Jay yesterday, that is good. Though I'm a little lost on their direction for Day 2. leetic faked a redcheck on nutella and is voting for her, ilario is voting alongside nutella elsewhere.
staypositivefriend - This is a hard slot. She did make a crucial vote for Jay at EOD1, though she did try to swap last second. She didn't voice an active interest in chopping Jay at the time, though she did earlier in the phase, and I do like her post about having to choose between her and anne. I think she looks slightly better than Dizzy does from their exchange.
falcon45ca - Townread because of Mac's clear.
nutella - My nutella read is all over the place, as esooa has pointed out. I still think that she's tonally sound in some spots, but has had missteps in others.
Dyslexicon - His Day 2 on the surface looks a lot better than his Day 1. His exchange with spf (as ilario I think pointed out) was kind of weird, especially given what else was going on in the thread at the time (he promised to give me read). My gut says he should probably be a little lower than this tbh.
MacDougall - Day 2 is better than Day 1. Bumping him to town for now because it appears he will probably self-resolve soon given his lover status.


POE

DrWilgy - MR was an interesting shot choice. On one hand, he did have a wagon take off and disappear yesterday. On the other hand, it was a miss, so so the "good shot" argument is one that scum could hide behind. I'll call that part a wash. He hasn't been specifically townie aside from his Day 2 POE attempts, which do line up with the consensus for the most part.
anne - I think her Day 2 has been ok. The argument that no one can be mech-cleared because of how the game is setup is true, but I'm slightly concerned she's making this argument to keep everyone open for potential mischop and to not actually clear anyone.
NotAnAxehole - Handling of Jay at the EOD1 wasn't great. I still thinks he is potential POE despite some resistance from others.
Esooa - Start of Day 2 didn't look great, but she did sub in, which is a difficult position to be in. She's tunnelling the bejeezus out of me. I disagree with the manner that it came about, in that she voiced a scumread, then hours later listed a bunch of reasons for it, many of them framing otherwise normal things in a negative light. I might be conf-biased on this one, so I'll try to let it percolate.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:36 am What the fuck is this day phase?

What do you want it to be?

Here, I'll update my readlist, and you can tell me if they're bad takes or not.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:25 am It's just that when I don't know what's going on/can't make my mind up about INSIGHTFUL TAKES, I get defensive, cause I at least don't want to be a hard town read.

Tbh, I think my current read on you can be summarized as

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:22 am

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:19 am Fwiw Dizzy, I don't think I've played a game with you where you were town and didn't post 200 times and towntell yourself Day 1. I think that's one of the reasons I didn't have a townread on you this game.

Other have. I've done it on Cindy Kate quite a lot. You also haven't played a game with me where I was mafia and posted a lot and usually I get a really good standing if not better as mafia too. I mean, I get it, other people's perception is their truth. It's just that I actually know my game.

Aaaanyway. I should stop complaining and go to bed.

I'd sheep Calexa right now.

Fleabag Mafia

Fwiw Dizzy, I don't think I've played a game with you where you were town and didn't post 200 times and towntell yourself Day 1. I think that's one of the reasons I didn't have a townread on you this game.

Shame on you for agreeing with the consensus Dizzy. Why would you do such a thing?!?!?!

The weirdest thing about anne's wagon right now is that none of those people voted for her on Day 1.

ilario wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:19 am I don’t like marmots push on naa, if there’s a deepwolf this game I’d loook Into marmot first if it comes to that, but I kinda think that him taking records of the voting logs during eod is pretty damn towny. I just tr naa more than marmot atm and dislike his push there

Can you at least respond to my take instead of this reaction? I spent like 2 hours reading back through and summarizing the EOD1 (mainly for myself, but also for anyone else who wants to check it out again). I did have him as a townread before, but I do think his EOD looks bad.

Why do you think he's town, and what do you think of his EOD, specifically that he only made one post in the waning moments in defense of chopping Jay?

I'm not sold on him being scum. I can't read him for shit. I do think that's a point against him.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:42 pm I mean...who's universally townread? Myself, Cassandra, Illario/Leetic, Rabbit? There's 4 there that aren't really facing much scrutiny, we do need a few more but it's a bit of a start.

That is a solid start. Although I know that nutella has tunneled cass today already, Mac is scumreading (or at least POEing) Rabbit. But yes, I do believe this is generally consensus. Thanks for the reminder, it does make me feel a little better.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:44 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:42 pm

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:36 pm marmot really is just going out of his way to ignore my read on him that he pinged me 4 times for

and blanket trying to discredit it when giving responses like "lol I just thought it was wolfy"

ok

I pinged you 4 times because I went back to read your post, I didn't understand your concern with my read of nutella, so I asked for a clarification.

Also, can you like, use more nouns in your sentences or something? I don't understand sentences like the blue one here because I don't know if you're talking about me or someone else, and if you are, who that person is talking about.

you didn't understand me asking for an explanation about posts exclusively talking about your read on Nutella? And that that means I'm curious about your read on Nutella at the time?

Sorry, I didn't read my own posts, so I forgot how much I flip-flopped back and forth in there.


But I did see reasons to TR nutella Day 1

Then leetic faked a redcheck on her.

Then he rescinded his redcheck.

Then she responded to pressure in imo, a not great manner, and I also thought that she scum-slipped.

Then I reread the EOD and her posts.




That about sums up why my read on nutella has change 5 times so far today.