The Syndicate

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:45 pm opposite reaction then tho i did actually think you wolf read them tbh

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 pm I'm still hesitant to touch Alison today because I believe Mac is a good Alison reader and Seanzie immediately caught Alison in the Rave Master game. Mac had Alison as town and I don't remember Seanzie going after Alison this game.

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:39 pm @Creature You got to realise that town will be sussing you and voting you considering how you are playing this game right now. I would be much, much, much more suspicious of those who are town reading you if I were you. This includes Jay, Alison and Ender tbh. Just my take. "Wrongly voting me" is not a good reason imo

I look a lot like a juicy mislynch right now and a good parking slot for wolves to put their vote on without being questioned.

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:41 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:39 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm Just want to say that the way Marmot and I react to Dizzy's flip-floppiness are pretty opposite of each other tbh

does this tell you something about Marmot

it made me want to scum read him because i am taking it chill and he is getting seemingly annoyed
but i got kinda burned for using myself as the frame on how one should react tbh

I'm annoyed because he seems to be flip-flopping on me, but has also at times in this game viewed me as strictly towncore and a partner-in-crime (but not the anti-town kind of crime).

I find it difficult to discuss his takes when many of them are "AHHHH I'm tinfoiling marmot again"


Why do you want to scumread that?

because i came to the opposte conclusion tbh
i dont see anything wolfy with that behaviour of dizzy tbh

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:36 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm Just want to say that the way Marmot and I react to Dizzy's flip-floppiness are pretty opposite of each other tbh

does this tell you something about Marmot

it made me want to scum read him because i am taking it chill and he is getting seemingly annoyed
but i got kinda burned for using myself as the frame on how one should react tbh

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:36 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:33 pm

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:32 pm Feels a lot like the falcon and DrWilgy mislynches which happened because of a seemingly lack of any other option.

Why don't we consider one of Alison and Jay then?

Ok who is most likely wolf between them?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:35 pm Just want to say that the way Marmot and I react to Dizzy's flip-floppiness are pretty opposite of each other tbh

Creature wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:32 pm Feels a lot like the falcon and DrWilgy mislynches which happened because of a seemingly lack of any other option.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:28 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:25 pm Dizzy, what do you think about Ender generally following your vote pattern?

I don't feel any particular way about it. It doesn't make me feel bad about him.

I was just thinking that if Ender is actually mafia, one of the only people I could see with him is Nate. Like maybe Boq and you. I don't think he is with Alison or Jay, and I don't think both of those two are town.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:20 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:16 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:15 pm @Alison Why is the wagon on Wilgy suggestive of a save? Sean called for votes there, and he was town. I voted after him, and I am town. Why was it a save?

Sorry, quote error.

I don't think Wilgy was in the list of prime candidates to be exed. He was taking a bit of heat, but not a ton, and there were a couple of people, including me, vouching for him.

I leave the thread close to EOD with a big leading wagon on finger and come back to a guy that I didn't expect to take much heat being a runaway exe and flipping town. I am deeply suspicious of flash wagons in general and I think the Wilgy wagon would count as one.

I think it is very easy for mafia to pile onto a wagon started by a townie when their mafia buddy is under threat.

What do you think went on D2, if Wilgy wasn't meant to be a save? Do you think the other candidates under threat that day (finger, Ender, to a lesser extent myself) are all town, mafia felt comfortable with the gamestate, and then a wagon comp of primarily townies rushed through a last minute exe on Wilgy? That doesn't feel like what happened to me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:16 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:15 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:09 pmDon't ask me to vote for Jay if you can't deal with the pressure of forcing that wagon

I don't really know what you're saying here.

I'm frustrated that you seem to tinfoil me when I'm trying to entertain your desires in this game.

I love you and I am not voting you and I might vote Alison.

Out of Creature and Ender, who do you most like to see DEAD

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:09 pmDon't ask me to vote for Jay if you can't deal with the pressure of forcing that wagon

I don't really know what you're saying here.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:10 pmWhat makes you think Jay/Marmot are aligned specifically? And why does the Ender read anchor the rest of yours?

I'm having weird inexplicable creepy feels about Marmot, a player I should town read if he's town. I think he might be out of scum range, but at the same time, I can't shake the suspicion. I also dreamt that I read the thread and was convinced Jay/Marmot was mafia. Yes, this is real. Marmot voted for Jay when me and Ender asked, but imo he's been hedgy about a read there and I felt that he didn't really want to vote there. I was not happy with the way he made it to be a reaction vote when I asked him about it later. He also said Jay is taking a lot of heat, when in fact, it was pretty much just me and Ender. Doesn't seem real. Jay's read on Marmot also feels like it could be on a teammate.

Boq/Jay interaction is also weird. Boq null reading Jay in spite of the thread is something I didn't notice, but it is striking to me now. Then Jay makes a whole case and a scum read on Boq. Boq ends up town reading Jay. Jay votes somewhere else.

Ender is the town read where I have probably made the biggest leap of faith. I don't see anything scummy in his posts really. I don't see who he would be teamed with. He doesn't seem concerned about being caught as scum at all. I just don't think he is. If this is wrong anyway though, my reads would obviously be a lot different.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

There was a point in Fleabag where Jay took multiple votes at the end of a day phase in the form of a flashwagon. I took the opportunity to support it to make it look like it had some serious momentum, both to gauge Jay's reaction, and to gauge the thread's reaction to seeing him as a wagon.

Jay's reaction at the time I found townie. I already thought he was town (which I was right), so perhaps I had conf-biased myself, but I thought it was a potentially useful exercise nonetheless. I don't remember much else from that event.

Seeing momentum here, I thought it could be useful to try said tactic again. Jay does look like he's had momentum building on him since mid Day 2 or so. I however think he's still performed just fine under that pressure.


Also, as I've said before, I think Jay is turning into the fallguy for the heat being put on the towncore, and I believe that makes it more likely a miss.

Wat.

That was a complete meme wagon, and Jimmay was never going over in that game.

Whereas here, the suspicion on him is very real.

Do you expect him to perform bad under pressure as mafia more?

Why do you have that feeling, that he's the fallguy? Ender and me have pressured him, Alison to a lesser degree.

I mean, someone who isn't caught up and peaks at the poll doesn't know that

I've already explained it. Boq/jjj/Alison keep getting mentioned as a group, and Jay is taking most of the heat of that group

Boq had taken some.

Alison has taken next to none.


What do you think about that

@Alison I'm getting really bad feels from this whole exchange in regards to Jay/Marmot

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:04 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:59 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:21 pm @Marmot Actually, what are your recent town and scum games?

Town Games:

Champs Game 4
Rave Master Mafia

Scum Games:

GOC 2021
Danganronpa V3 Mafia


The scum games weren't that recent, but I haven't actually randed scum in 6 months.

Thanks. Scum game link doesn't work, but I'll find it

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:21 pm @Marmot Actually, what are your recent town and scum games?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:52 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:42 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:34 pm I’ve never seem Creature be this useless as town

Let's please not describe players in this way

It's within context of this game.

He's been lazily throwing my name around for a while with nothing to it.

I have asked him direct questions which he hasn't answered.

His whining is so over the top, I really hope it's fake.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:34 pm I’ve never seem Creature be this useless as town

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:20 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:57 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:35 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:52 am

Boquise wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:46 am Let's have an exercise
If you had an alignment check, who would be your first pick to check and why?

Wilgy

I think that sort would potentially break the game open

Huh hm
In your analysis of interactions, he is in the least amount of worlds though? Wouldn't it be better to pick someone who has equity with plenty of people?

That's a low bar in this game, unfortunately (least amount of worlds). To know that DrWilgy is town would secure me more in my process and give me important insights about a number of folks that have interacted with his slot throughout the game, including those who've town read him. A mafia Wilgy might represent a narrow POE.

In any event, ain't no checks

I think this whole line is pretty damning for Jimmay.

Recall that he did an interaction analysis who showed that Wilgy was not compatible with a lot of people, and had a town lean on Wilgy. The answer of wanting a cop check on Wilgy doesn't make sense, especially with people like me and Alison in the game. I don't understand how it would break the game open, and if it did - THE GAME IS OPEN NOW @JaggedJimmyJay

When confronted about this, I'm not at all satisfied with his answer. Now he is undermining his own interaction analysis, saying it's a low bar to in this game. And he ends the discussion with saying there are no checks, which reads very "no checks anyway, so nothing to worry about".

I don't like this at all.

Plenty of things I don't like about Jimmay. He hasn't asked why Sean died or got into NKA with that, like he did with Mac.
I don't buy his Ender push either.

He's also being weird around Marmot's town case of Fingers.

I don't expect to make a great case on Jimmay here, but I'm pretty positive he's mafia here. So I hope I'm right, cause I'm unlikely to change my vote.

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:20 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:10 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:22 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

I would say, in a vacuum, yes. I'm just not sure how much "more" likely -- much more, or just "statistically" more. If we look at night kills alone then Marmot is the standout (perhaps Dizzy). Creature is, in my view, less likely to kill Seanzie.

Have you talked about my thoughts on Marmot? I don't mean to keep plugging these walls, but they summarize my posture on things and serve as a starting point for dialogues.

I read it but I haven't talked about it. We're in the same wheelhouse on Marmot, town but with a few rough spots. I don't think he answered the specific questions in your wall, though I saw he responded to it in general.

Can I ask what you mean by rough spots?

Maybe "things that concern me" is a better way to put it. Like, you look the worst from taking the NKA at face value. And you were an important vote for both mischops (though I think your vote switching around them is overall towny).

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:19 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:18 pm She is starting to receive more heat, but I mean in general this game she has not received much.

She received votes from me and Boq on D2. Which is a bit more than what I would say for Jay tbh.

But I get it. You don't want to vote Jay. You think he's a scape goat and town. Noted.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:14 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:01 pm And also, what do you think about L
Alison in general?

I think her direction has been overall pretty bad. I didn't like a lot of her posts at the start of the game, but think they've been ok otherwise. Thing is, she's a bit more meh and floaty than I'd expect her to be as mafia. But I don't know if that's a good expectation, probably not tbh. I recall suspecting her in a game we were both town, and she ended up omgusing me hard, or we both did. That was different circumstances though. All in all, I really don't know. I suspect bad direction, and that is bad in itself. My impressions of her are pretty vague, if you can't tell

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:22 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

I would say, in a vacuum, yes. I'm just not sure how much "more" likely -- much more, or just "statistically" more. If we look at night kills alone then Marmot is the standout (perhaps Dizzy). Creature is, in my view, less likely to kill Seanzie.

Have you talked about my thoughts on Marmot? I don't mean to keep plugging these walls, but they summarize my posture on things and serve as a starting point for dialogues.

I read it but I haven't talked about it. We're in the same wheelhouse on Marmot, town but with a few rough spots. I don't think he answered the specific questions in your wall, though I saw he responded to it in general.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:46 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

There was a point in Fleabag where Jay took multiple votes at the end of a day phase in the form of a flashwagon. I took the opportunity to support it to make it look like it had some serious momentum, both to gauge Jay's reaction, and to gauge the thread's reaction to seeing him as a wagon.

Jay's reaction at the time I found townie. I already thought he was town (which I was right), so perhaps I had conf-biased myself, but I thought it was a potentially useful exercise nonetheless. I don't remember much else from that event.

Seeing momentum here, I thought it could be useful to try said tactic again. Jay does look like he's had momentum building on him since mid Day 2 or so. I however think he's still performed just fine under that pressure.


Also, as I've said before, I think Jay is turning into the fallguy for the heat being put on the towncore, and I believe that makes it more likely a miss.

Wat.

That was a complete meme wagon, and Jimmay was never going over in that game.

Whereas here, the suspicion on him is very real.

Do you expect him to perform bad under pressure as mafia more?

Why do you have that feeling, that he's the fallguy? Ender and me have pressured him, Alison to a lesser degree.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:35 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:34 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

No, I'm really asking.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:33 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

Fleabag

What does that mean?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm @Marmot Why did you vote Jimmay when you clearly didn't want to?

lucy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:32 pm interesting alison vote

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:25 pm lots of naked votes on Alison huh tbh

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:26 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

interesting take tbh

It is pretty interesting that you did not press me further on that but wanted to re-ask me about my Wilgy take when that has already been explained tbh

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:23 pm I am not sure why Dizzy town reads me but thanks for the support :wowee:

Marmot having questionmarks regarding my usage of "interesting" is interesting :wowee:

MU has destroyed me. I need a wowee in every text communication I use tbh

oh Nate is here.
I would vote Ender over JJJ

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

That's really hard to say. Mac's views of games can change severely and suddenly. Perhaps he starts there, but his solving method is chaotic and may not end there. What do you have in mind on this front?

I think NKA can be really telling in mountainous, and I'm trying not to hand-wave away Mac's death as solely "well he was dying N1 no matter what" in case there's something there. More specifically, if I'm the wolves, and I see that Mac's kill list is all misses, do I leave him alive? A forceful townie that you know is wrong can be pretty helpful. In other words, does Mac's death make it more likely that he was right about at least one of Dizzy/Creature/Marmot?

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:12 pm [VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:11 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:07 pm

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Currently, I think the entire list is wrong. Maybe there's 1 wolf in there (between Dizzy and Creature), but I'm leaning towards not true atm.

Also Mac's reads change with the winds, and just because he fell at that point at EOD1 doesn't mean it was one he truly believed in.

what if you are saying that because you were a part of that list though :wowee:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:08 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:05 pm I can't blame him tbh. If everyone else is acting townie, I think it's reasonable to kill the people early on who are not acting townie.

Obviously if that doesn't work we have to reapproach the game from new perspectives, which we are, but I can't call that approach wrong.

Do you think the comments about Wilgy's handling of Mac are reasonable?

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pm I think only Dizzy gave me a perspective on this:

NateTheLesser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:00 am Those who know Mac better, a hypothetical: on D1 he had a kill list of Dizzy/Creature/Falcon/Wilgy + Marmot. I imagine he generally expects to die N1. If he finds himself still alive D2 in this game, does he assume he's only alive because his list was wrong and start over? Or is someone on there dying?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:04 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:01 pm Ok, so Boq is probably town.

I have decided this is the case btw

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:46 pm

Boquise wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:43 pm I thought Wilgy would flip scum because:
1. I did not think the way he reacted to Mac's pressure was townie, from someone who has been death tunnelled by Mac before many times.
2. Because the way Wilgy decided to town read Mac felt to be made out of reluctance after I began questioning Wilgy and town reading Mac.

Then I also voted Wilgy because:
3. I did not want to yeet anyone else because they were active enough.
4. Because I found it interesting to see how that would play with your charts.

Alright.

I've spoken of these things already, and in the interest of avoiding a noisy tunnel I am just going to think further on them. However, I would very much like to hear what other players think of the above explanation. Is this a reasonable view for Boquise with respect to voting for DrWilgy on Day 2?