The Syndicate

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 8:40 pm I'm so sorry Turnip. I should have not let the distancing / game mechanic get to me and listened to who was more authentic. I blame myself

It's not really your fault! I probably never would have voted Russ. I think you played really well

I really liked the Racket posting cap and how it got expanded overtime with the jiggies/rhyming minigame. I thought the pace was really good and made the game easy to follow. I might take a little break but I plan to play more rackets in the future.

Well played baddies and Russ

Well I have to vote dunya to give myself a shot here. I really wish we were going to Final 3.

Good luck gang

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:43 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:39 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:38 pm I'll vote no lynch if u promise me we can spend the night and next day phase exchanging gifs to each other, turnip. ;p

deal

I really want to do this... But only if you promise to kill me tonight So it's you, sloonei and Russ in LyLo?

Do we gots a deal?

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:39 pm Can dunya (or anyone) point me to the TH/nutella interactions that look bad? I just skimmed through, and all I saw was TH GTH'ed nutella as a slight scum read. Somewhat panic-reading here, so sorry if I missed it.

nutella harped on my Mac read and my character claim, I responded to her on both points but some consider it to look like teammate interaction

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:38 pm I'll vote no lynch if u promise me we can spend the night and next day phase exchanging gifs to each other, turnip. ;p

deal

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 5:18 pm [VOTE: TH] aubergine

The role just doesn't make sense to me in the balance of things. Sloonei's inventor role, after seeing all the 1 shot items, is pretty powerful. Add a vig, jailkeeper, tracker, vanilla cop and double voter to the mix and I think a watched is just overkill. Plus the fact TH is still alive despite role hinting since Day 2...

I hate to vote you based on mechanics, TH. Cos you have been the most authentic sounding player...but this is what it comes down to for me.

Are you breaking up with me?

[VOTE: No Lynch ] aubergine

Less than 2 hours before deadline and we still have reached no consensus

Even I think I look guilty. Maybe I really am bad and I misunderstood my own role.

Alright, I'm willing to consider that I'm supposed to treat sloonei's gift to me as proof of his town role. I am probably way too paranoid about him.

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 12:36 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 10:54 am How can you know for a fact that sloonei won't be at Lylo?

pretend you have a crystal ball, and that crystal ball says sloonei is town. pretend you have a green check on him.

now, who's bad between me and russ? this is what i want a town TH to consider, if TH is actually town.

You

I don't know. I'm not doing it on purpose, I just don't suspect either of them. If I lose to a bad Russ or dunya I'll feel at peace with my choices lol

How can you know for a fact that sloonei won't be at Lylo?

I'm sorry I wasn't more thoughtful in addressing you during the jack lynch, dunya. I was being paranoid and I'm ashamed that I didn't treat you better. I do think you're civ right now, but sometimes when the doubt is there, it can be difficult to be diplomatic because I don't want a baddie dunya to run us over.

I'm sorry you feel broken over this game. I've actually had a lot of fun personally and I feel like the format has been a breath of fresh air. I haven't needed to worry about reading thousands of posts but we have not lacked for thorough discussion either. and the post limits have never felt suffocating. Rackets are pretty cool imo and the game has felt casual but still competitive. But not everyone's the same and I'm sad that you're not having fun

And to Russti feeling like he's talking to the void, I want him to know I'm listening, and anticipating his content. I don't really have much more new to say unless I need to defend myself, but I really appreciate reading all of Russti:s thoughts and I am listening intently to what he has to say. He's being extremely thorough and smart and I wonder where he'll end up voting.

I still think Lylo is the right way to go from a strategic perspective, force this mafia to make one last kill and risk another clue to their identity.

Just because we have btsc doesn't mean your role does what you say it does, OR that you're town. It could just as easily be a mafia role. I have no proof of your towniness.

See, look how townie Russ looks in that post. He's being so considerate and deliberate. This guy's town.

I think DDL was killed instead of me because DDL was outed town (so can't be mislynched), baddies had a way to block me, and I could potentially be mislynched.

At the time that dunya suspected me I thought she was bad because I wasn't considering Sloonei to be in my PoE. So she almost had to be bad because she was trying to mislynch me and I didn't suspect Russti (and again I wasn't considering that sloonei could be bad instead). It was a paranoid way of thinking, but I also think dunya was being paranoid when she suspected me and Russ, so I can empathize with that.

Everyone left has played really really well. I just think me, Russ and dunya feel the towniest, and if either of you are bad, you're basically a genius. I think sloonei feels the least townie and is only cleared by dubious mechanics which can't be verified, but that means he's ALSO a genius if he's bad.

I feel like a town!sloon would be cognizant of the fact that "breadcrumbing" his role to Russti or whatever doesn't actually clear him. Like he'd understand that it is not irrefutable proof of his role. He'd instead say things like "I know this doesn't actually clear me". Sloonei has been acting like his breadcrumbs are above reproof, when he would know that isn't actually true because there was no corroborating evidence. That's what makes me think he's hiding behind his claim and trying to be sneaky.

Yes I currently have btsc with him for some reason, and yes that would be a powerful mafia role, but it'd also be a powerful town role, so it's powerful either way. It's certainly not game-breaking like he insinuated.

Sloon dealing in absolutes based on murky evidence makes me not want to trust him.

Idk Russti seems pretty town to me. I'm sure I could paint a picture that makes him look bad, but I just don't think he is.

I don't really have a good defense for how Nutella and speedchuck treated me. As for my side of the story, I typically don't respond to every person who suspects me. If I did that I'd never have time to talk about anything else. It's unfortunate that two players who I kind of ignored were bad, but I'm town.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 3:27 pm I'll throw this out there: If TH is bad, claiming no result last night is a weird move. If they were bad, they'd just claim it was one of us and the game is basically won, right? I think it has a ring of honesty.

I guess you could tinfoil that other claims haven't worked out great for us this game, so maybe they were paranoid about that and thought it was safer to just sow general confusion. However, overall it looks good to me.

Sloon, thanks for being so forthcoming about your role. I also think it's a somewhat good look for you - it would seem very elaborate to make all that up. I agree that a baddie that roleblocks and puts someone in BTSC seems too strong, as well.

I'm going to be reading everyone again this evening - probably won't do full ISOs, but I might post quotes here and there that I think are particularly relevant. I'm going to try to more or less disregard claim stuff as I do. We haven't seen any evidence of TH or dunya's claims, and Sloon's seems legit but could hypothetically exist for a baddie in some form, even if it's far-fetched. I still think we oughta be able to crack this based on the thread.

TH, out of curiosity what's your thoughts on a No Lynch and forcing another day of LYLO? You proposed it yesterday no ended up voting, wondering if you still feel the same.

Lylo is our best play imo. As long as town votes together in Lylo we win.

dunya wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 1:48 pm what if sloonei's role is literally taking someone into btsc, but as a sort of scum roleblocker. hence why turnip's wouldn't work. but it didn't work on me and russ cos MP had us jailkept.

that is my tinfoil of the day.

I mean it doesn't sound crazy to me lol. It could be this is exactly what happened.

Linking: I did ask the host, he shrugged

Alright well let's sort out Russ and dunya then. I think they've both played well and if either is bad I'd say they deserve the win, but I'd obviously rather the town wins so let's try to figure it out.

I wouldn't call btsc with sloon a gift lmao. I still can't prove his role or alignment.

I trust Russ and dunya more than sloonei but that's just my unprofessional opinion.

And based on that breadcrumb, what was the good reason you were supposed to have had for not suspecting sloonei, [mention]Russtifinko[/mention] ?

Every other town role is basic and simple except for Sloonei's, which is wacky and chaotic.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:46 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 2:33 pm I am Leaky and my role could still be useful if we go to Lylo.

I select a player two nights in the game, and if that player is killed that night i learn who killed them. I didn't use it the first two nights and last night I selected DDL thinking they would kill him for sure, but they went with G-Man instead. I still have one watch left.

The limited utility of the role where it only works upon death does not mesh with anything else in the game, or with the style of role i'd expect to see in a jay game.

Why doesn't it mesh with the game? I think it fits fine, and more importantly, it is my actual role. I think sloonei's role is the one that doesn't fit, and the revealed mafia so far is noticeably missing a manipulator/disruptor role, which I think can fit for Sloonei.

[mention]Russtifinko[/mention], can you point me towards Sloonei's breadcrumb?

dunya wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 10:00 pm @Sloonei @Turnip Head who did both of you target last night?

sloonei, if you gave something to ddl im gonna throw this desk over.

I watched DDL and was given no result

Not really, no

That's because you can't....

Does someone have something in their inbox that undoubtedly clears sloonei?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 5:07 pmAlso if I was going to use a fake claim, I would not go with something that would require me to manifest a result in someone else's inbox later in the game.

What does this mean? Please explain it in excruciating detail.

What are the circumstances of your roleclaim?

But I don't understand how sloonei's role clears him. He is towncleared for... Doing nothing?

Sloonei is the bad guy tho, did anyone even read my well reasoned case? I've spent a lot of energy trying to clear my townreads and build a case on the bad guy

Why would I be doing any of this if I'm bad lol Think about it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 2:31 am You really mustn’t bother with Part II, my dear Turnip.

Part II is really just combing through your ISO and looking at how you treated nutella Day 1. Everyone should check it out. Just read Day 1 of Sloonei's ISO whenever you get the time, I promise it's worth it.

You poked her, you picked on her, you asked her typical Sloonei-like questions, you focused on her from the very beginning of the game and contunued until she died, but you *never* voted for her. I think that's rather telling. The best part is when you hop on the Mac wagon late in the Day 1 and in the same breath proclaim that nutella is Mac's teammate. I am cracking up reading that part of the thread right now.

You poked and prodded nutella a bit but when the Mac wagon appeared you jumped aboard and tried to tie nutella to Mac. Mac gets lynched, flips town and your teammate still looks innocent.

You also threw a brief random vote on speedchuck at one point on Day 1 that never went anywhere. Again this makes me think the scum team's strategy was to interact with each other in unintuitive ways. You used your TMI of each other to sort of goad each other in the thread. It's a highly effective scum strategy that Golden and I pulled off in Firefly Mafia; and Epi, LC, speedchuck and I very recently just did the same thing in Assassin's Creed Mafia. The concept is you spend a big portion of your energy fighting your teammates the whole game while never letting that be your full or only focus.

You fought with nutella on every issue the two of you mutually discussed, but you never pushed suspicion of her onto other players, and you never voted for her.




Part III is the really juicy part....

Part III is all about how you, as town, should never have accused Russ of not hunting yesterday. If you were town you would have seen the predicament that Russ was in and how he was absolutely doing what was required of him when he deliberated between me and dunya. In a world where you're town, you and DDL are cleared and the fight is between me and dunya, and Russti spends most of the day trying to pick between us. That was something that Russti absolutely had to do from a town perspective. If you were a town, you would intrinsically understand that.



IF you were TOWN, you would have UNDERSTOOD what Russ, as your fellow townie, was trying to accomplish yesterday.




But you're not town, you're a baddie,

And so, as a baddie, you saw Russti trying to debate between lynching two civilians (me and dunya), which led you to think you could safely accuse him of not trying to gamesolve.

And that's where you fucked up. As a townie, you wouldn't accuse him of not gamesolving in that situation, while as a baddie, you can accuse him of that, and frankly, you almost HAVE to accuse him of that, because you need to lynch an innocent townie tomorrow.

So yeah I basically just proved that you're bad.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:43 pmI see Russ making posts, but I don't see those as active solving.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 3:36 pmWhen I look at Russ, I see a player who is just trying to run out the clock on this day phase.

Let's take a moment to recap the past 48 hours. The day started with dunya attacking me, Russ questioning dunya's motives, and me counterattacking dunya. Speedchuck was not in much trouble until the latter half of the phase, after I changed my mind about dunya and she subsequently changed her mind about me. The fact that dunya and I changed our minds about each other and instead went with a speedchuck lynch (which I approved of here, though I still argued for a No Lynch just to be cautious), I think, clears dunya and I from having bad intentions. If either of us were bad with speedchuck, we would have continued trying to lynch the other so that victory would be sealed. The only thing that prevented a dunya or TH lynch was dunya and TH easing off their suspicions of each other, and we came together to lynch a baddie, so we are both good.

This brings me to Russtifinko.


EXHIBIT A THAT RUSSTIFINKO IS GAMESOLVING (please critically read the whole spoiler, it's a post by Russtifinko that serves as a primer to the rest of my argument because it shows his tone while hunting):


Okay, so let me break it down clearly.

What follows is not speculation: these are logical statements that can be treated as true, followed by the logical extension of those facts into a theory.

• From RUSS THE TOWNIE's point of view, DDL is towncleared (mechanically via G-Man), and Sloonei is towncleared (circumstantially via nutella interactions), and so RUSS THE TOWNIE shares his home with three unknown entities: dunya, TH and speedchuck.
• From RUSS THE TOWNIE's point of view, two of those players have to be mafia.
• From RUSS THE TOWNIE's point of view, dunya and TH are accusing each other.
• So, perhaps assuming that speedchuck is bad no matter what (as most of us did) Russ spends the entire day digging into dunya and TH to figure out which one he trusts and which one he doesn't.
• RUSS THE TOWNIE eventually, it seems, decides that dunya is more likely to be bad than TH, and goes to great lengths to explain why.

As a townie, this is exactly what Russ has to do in this situation. In his unique situation, this is exactly how townie Russ has to solve the game. Even if you assume speedchuck is bad for RUSS THE TOWNIE, one of either dunya or TH is bad as well, and Russ spent the whole day trying to figure out who.

That doesn't even mention the fact that Russ did a pretty impressive case on speedchuck as well during this time period, which goes in-depth on his opinion of speedchuck at a time where a baddie Russ really didn't need to do all that work, and I can't remember anyone else putting in that much effort to case speedchuck at the time..




Now, let's consider if this was instead from RUSS THE HYPOTHETICAL BADDIE's point of view.

• From RUSS THE HYPOTHETICAL BADDIE's point of view, speedchuck is Russ' partner.
• From RUSS THE HYPOTHETICAL BADDIE's point of view, dunya and TH are both town, and lynching either one of them would win the game
• So from RUSS THE HYPOTHETICALL BADDIE's point of view, it doesn't really matter which of dunya or TH gets lynched. They are both town, and lynching either one of them would have won Russ the game.
• ??
• But that's NOT what happened. Instead, Russ went on and on and on AND ON about how he felt dunya looked more suspicious than TH during that exchange. Again, townie Russ did this because it is EXACTLY WHAT TOWN RUSS HAS TO DO HERE.

Okay, so let's consider why townie Russ was put in the false dichotomy of either me or dunya being bad in the first place (and then doing his due diligence to figure out who)

DDL is towncleared (mechanically via G-Man)
Sloonei is towncleared (via interactions with nutella)

This is the part that caused Russ to narrow his hunting between dunya and TH; for townie Russ, there are NO OTHER SUSPECTS, because even when speedchuck is bad, everyone else but dunya and TH are cleared from being speedchuck's partner.

And that's
because
We MISTAKENLY
cleared Sloonei


Stay tuned for Part 2....

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:50 pm day ends in an hour. I'll say my own things if you're pressed for time.

Say whatever you want lol

I will later but my break's almost over and I'm hungry

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:46 pm What is the best post russ has made since the end of Day 3? The one that showed the most honest effort to solve this game?

He was actively trying to figure out which of me and dunya to trust because he's assuming you're a civvie, so by Poe of elimination he had to figure me and dunya out. I don't think you are actually town but I don't fault Russ for making that assumption.

3 town on the speedchuck wagon atm. Sloonei is alone on a Russ wagon

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:43 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 4:39 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 2:59 pm I just lost a game at lylo where I spent the last phase going over old posts to decide who made the most sense in relation to the other dead bad guys. I overlooked some pretty obvious evidence in the differences between the two remaining players (LC and Tony) had behaved over the final phases of the game: Tony was much more active than LC in trying to solve the game. He ended up being town, but I voted for him and we lost. I'm wondering how much that will translate here. Who has looked the most eager to solve the game since the end of Day 3?

Me and Russ have done the most solving since day 3 from my POV

I see Russ making posts, but I don't see those as active solving. He has reinforced the reads he already had. By contrast, you and dunya have expressed some skepticism of me. You've gone back and forth on each other. I sense real uncertainty. I don't get that from russ.

Do you think dunya makes up her claim about having a dream if she's mafia?

I don't think dunya's dream is alignment indicative. Too much is being made of that situation, she was just being silly and possibly actually just had a silly dream

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 3:26 pm

dunya wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:56 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:33 am [VOTE: No Lynch] aubergine

We are clearly not coming to a consensus today and a mislynch loses us the game. I believe Sloonei and probably speedchuck are mafia and would like another 72 hours to discuss the case.

If speed is bad in any universe why not speed today

If speed flips scum I'm reconsidering lynching TH.

And with that said

[VOTE: speed] aubergine

Dunya has looked alright in her recent defenses. Her progression is still weird but I can see someone like her just changing her mind like that. Speed has done nothing to placate me susupicions.

That doesn't make sense, if I was scum with speed I just would have lynched dunya today, I certainly wouldn't be pushing no Lynch at Mylo

And your wrong btw, getting to Lylo is the definitive move for town here, I bet the host will agree with me post-game (see poll question)

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 2:59 pm I just lost a game at lylo where I spent the last phase going over old posts to decide who made the most sense in relation to the other dead bad guys. I overlooked some pretty obvious evidence in the differences between the two remaining players (LC and Tony) had behaved over the final phases of the game: Tony was much more active than LC in trying to solve the game. He ended up being town, but I voted for him and we lost. I'm wondering how much that will translate here. Who has looked the most eager to solve the game since the end of Day 3?

Me and Russ have done the most solving since day 3 from my POV

[VOTE: speed ] aubergine since I'm the only one who wants no Lynch

Yeah but I think sloon is indeed bad and was distancing with Nutella
I'm at work til deadline but if we have another day I'll try to prove it. We could have more time to get it right here, we should take it.