The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:But it was true, you know. It really was.

I don't doubt that.
But I've noticed that when baddies are caught and it's for something they think they would have done either way, they say it like that."I would have done it whether bad or good". When you're a civvie, you would just call it crap, and say it's not true. Seriously, every time someone says it like you did, they come out baddie. Every time. It just doesn't fail

I just wanted to add, that while most of the first 2 days I thought SVS was a civvie, not once, in all my playing career (not that long, by the way), I've never seen a civvie say "I would do this whether a baddie or a civvie". Once SVS said it, that made it seal the deal for me. I shouldn't have said it, but if you don't want me to think you're a baddie, never say something like that

And I agree with what was said about Elo.

I think a civ win means all the civvies win. I used to be quite good at finding the baddies so they NK me early each game, and it was frustrating.

Sadly, I don't have that problem anymore

. I get NK but not for those reasons

linki @ I agree with the last part. As for you surviving, I doubt it. If you found a baddie, it would just motivate them to NK you even more.

insertnamehere wrote:Made you an avatar:

Thanks

juliets wrote:Congrats FZ and inh! FZ, I was just sure kate was Willow and for the first time ever in any game I decided I was not going to do the curse. I thought it was more important that she stayed alive and I would pay whatever price there was. I really am shocked that bea didn't vote either - I'm interested to know whether she didn't vote on purpose or she just missed the whole thing due to work. Anyway, congrats on your first Syndicate win!

Honestly, it made me really mad. I voted for Elo even though I was sure she was a baddie and lynching her would cement Kate as a civvie , because I was sure the lynch wouldn't go through since you and Bea didn't do what you were supposed to. And then, when I saw Elo was lynched, I was mad. But then Epi gave me your powers (which I didn't know were yours), and I killed you, because you deserved to die, and because I thought maybe you were Meegosh, and now I had to kill him to get Kate killed at night because I didn't think there was any chance I'd manage to lynch her...

Thanks though, it all worked out for the best.

Turnip Head wrote:Congrats FZ and INH! You guys were epic heroes this game, and definitely both deserved the win.

The rest of the civvies... well, I guess we got what was coming to us, huh? :P

I'm glad FZ/Burglekutt decided to help the civvies (even though you helped get a lot of civs killed in the process, lol!) I like to think that llama and I helping you get SVS lynched had a little bit to do with that decision

Actually, you two were the only ones who didn't deserve to die (and INH), so I felt I owed you a little and when I learned that SVS was who I needed her to be, that was a very happy moment for me. So thank you

Oh, and I definitely want a banner

kneel4justice wrote:Good job, FZ!!! Yeah! It feels cool to win over here, huh?! Now you get a banner. Haha
And congrats to INH too. I just had to come congratulate my KSITE pal.

Thank you

That's sweet!
Yeah, it's great to win here. And it was great being an independent role. I don't think I ever had that on K-site

Epi, I'm glad you found it amusing

INH, I wasn't playing you....maybe just a little.

Epignosis wrote:Well, thanks for turning what was supposed to be a simple, straightforward game into something complicated in a hurry.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Anyway, here are some thoughts:

I was shocked by all the thinking that I’d tweaked them for Andrew’s sake.

The Prologue poll was to determine who would be the tie-breaker. Andrew and Kate tied. I rolled a die, best two out of three. Andrew was odd, Kate was even. I rolled three 5s (Yahtzee!). So Andrew would decide all ties. This would be done by submitting a list. #1 is the person he deems most suspicious, and #14 would be the person he trusted most (presumably himself). He could update the list at any time. That’s how ties were handled. juliets resubmitted the list after she subbed in.

On Night 1, Turnip Head made S~V~S target birdwithteeth11. The original target was DharmaHelper. This understandably cemented the TH / thellama suspicion of S~V~S.

++++

So this is where things got squirrely:

On Night 3, FZ. forced juliets and bea to vote for Kate. Juliets elected not to, and bea missed the vote. I tend to consider not following through on a vote curse tantamount to breaking a rule (imagine if someone who was silenced chose to speak in the thread anyway).

However, it would not have been fair to FZ. to modkill them, because it would have ended the game and FZ. would have lost.

So I decided the thread would get a taste of Super Burglekutt: All juliets’ and bea’s powers would go to FZ. permanently, without their knowledge.

That’s right. FZ. had a role block and controlled bea’s even Night kill.

And with great power, FZ. took down every remaining civilian except insertnamehere. FZ. was a Burglekutt in the richest sense: Determined to have peace without evildoers ruling the land, but not happy with others sharing the victory, haha.

I didn't know I took their power, I just thought I got one of my own. That's why I thought Sorsha was the baddie, because only my kill went through, and then, the same thing went down with DH...though I did consider it a possibility that they tried to kill INH and he just protected himself. Oh man, had I known I took their power, I might have voted differently. Bottom line is with the 5 players, the only person I was sure about what INH because I took his power on the first night. That's also how I assumed Kate was Willow, because I couldn't take hers, and with her hints in the thread, I had to take her out, so every night, I tried to make two people vote for her...

Oh, and thank you to TH and llama for handing me SVS

Couldn't have done it without you

Yes!!!! My first win in TS!

Heck, my first time not getting NK

*High fives INH*

We don't deserve it, but we did it, lol.

Bea, great game. Sorry I had to go with INH

I think you did great

Thanks for a very enjoyable game Epi

Is that a rhetorical question?

No

Can we just end the game now?

bea wrote: Just because I've been sucky this game doesn't mean I'm not a civ. If you want to let INH win FZ that's fine, you can let the baddies win. My head never really got into this game I'll admit. I prolly deserve to losse one for all the suck I've had.

Nah, Bea. You did a great job, and we did badly, but you can't convince me about this. If I hadn't promised INH I'll be going with him, I'd give you the win because you deserve it more than most of the civvies, but I'm a woman of my word

Sorry *votes Bea*

linki @ I appreciate the last effort....It's inspiring

By the way, INH, I love the quote you have in your signature. Is it for real? Did you actually host that game or was it a joke?

I'm kidding INH, I'm going with you. I've just done really badly this game in terms of guessing the baddies, lol, that I feel Bea deserves to win this too. Yesterday, I was telling myself to trust my thoughts on Bea when I said she wasn't really pointing fingers back in the first few days of the game. Somehow, I let her lull me into false trustworthiness...
I pried myself in being good at finding baddies, but I really sucked this game.

Anyway, I'm with you.

Hehe, now, whoever wants to convince me to go with them, is more than welcome

*meant.

Sorry, ment Madmartigan, not Meegosh

Sure, no problem. It is understandable

Anyway, I won't be here until tomorrow evening my time, so my vote is in.

If by any chance, we win the game after that lynch, wait for me to party

bea wrote:I think between you and DH -

I have more good feels about you than he.

But he DOES have a decent point that we are now getting into the numbers - it can only be a few of us that are bad.

And I am curious as to why he sees you as bad. I'd like to hear what he has to say.

long story short - my vote is likely DH - but I'm giving him a window to talk before I just vote.

So why are you not doubting INH? See, this is what makes me doubt you a little.
But since this really is a case of numbers, and if what is written in the first page is correct, we only have one more baddie left, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt now, and go after the person who has voted for a civvie ever lynch (unless you're not a civvie), and has give us absolutely no reason to trust him. If he turns out to be a civ, I'll be surprised but not floored, and I will be left with you. Why would you be left with me?

I'm not throwing you under the bus. I still think it's DH.

The person I trust the most is INH. I think I trust you too, and I say vote for DH. If by any chance he comes up civ, I'll have to look at you because I think my role is pretty obvious.

Are you with me on DH?

I can't talk about what happened during the night, so you either trust me or not, it's your prerogative. I think it's DH and there's a tiny chance it could be Bea, but everything is pointing to DH.

INH, either way, even if we vote for DH, and he turns out to be the civ, which I highly doubt, we can still win the game, because the baddie can't make a kill next night and it all depends on next day's vote.

haha, that was supposed to be:

Epi, can Meegosh save himself?

There is once possible scenario where DH does not have to be the baddie.

Epi [/epi], can Meegosh save himself?

DH, you're grasping.

I am 99.5% sure DH is the remaining scum
I'm voting for him

insertnamehere wrote:
FZ. wrote:This is really frustrating because I can't base judgements on nothing. I need people to state their opinion. I'm interested in what Bea thinks now that Sorsha who she voted for twice in a row was found to be a civvie.

INH, you said Bea wouldn't have voted for Kate if she wanted to look good, but if it was between Kate and herself, would she vote for someone else and get lynched to look good? How would that help her if she got lynched? I'm still not following that logic. The problem with Bea is that I haven't seen many suspicions from her during the game. She did vote for SVS, but that means nothing to me, because if I see a fellow baddie going down, I will vote for them too. Still, the lynch before the last one makes me doubt she could be the baddie.

Ok, so let's assume bea's bad. There's seven votes. Three of which are going to Kate. The other three go to bea. Bea has to decide what to vote. If she votes Kate, she gives up her cover, and will most likely be eliminated the next day. If she votes for a different option, she has a 50% chance of not being lynched, and her cover isn't blown. She lives to see another few days. That's a scenario that I think is possible.

Then there is DH who is again, doing nothing. If someone wanted to look good, DH is the person who would look best, because his reasons for voting Bea were "to save Kate", and like I said before I thought Sorsha was the last baddie, if he was the baddie, he defended the known civvie and no one could blame him for that. Also, all his actions are reactive, as he always says things in reaction to others and not on his own. I don't know how he plays as a baddie or as a civvie, so I don't know if he's usually like this.

Usually he's a talkative instigator, always one of the top posters in a thread, and spearhead's a lot of lynches. That's why his playstyle in this game is very suspicious.

Lastly, MM, who I said was my now top suspect. Well, I'm not sure. If he's the baddie, I'm sure he came on just to see the results and make sure he wasn't being lynched. As a civvie, wouldn't you expect him to let us know he won't be here? As a baddie, he could use it as a safety net if things were going in his favor.

I'm not really getting what you are saying here, could you go into more detail?

I think it's still between DH and MM for me.
There's still Burgle in the game. I think that if the three discussed won't give some explanations by the time Burgle sends in his night PM, he should just force the others to vote for who is doing the least to help

INH, I think one of us will be the target of tonight, because it's pretty obvious the others are more suspicious, so they will be kept alive.
Do you still think it's MM?

Out of the three still alive, he's the one I find suspicious the most.

With Bea, there were 2 votes on Kate, which everyone thought were most likely forced by Burgle, and 1 or 2 on Bea when she voted. I'm not sure if she voted before DH or after him. The two people who were left to vote were me and Sorsha. I think it was pretty safe to assume that the other people who were civvies were not going to vote for Kate who was probably the most assured civvie. I waited til the last second to vote for Kate, so it's not like she saw 3 votes on her and decided to change. So if she was the last baddie, most probably she thought me and Sorsha would vote for her between the two, which would leave her being lynched.

As for DH, he voted for the wrong people the entire game, but so did Sorsha, which we now know was a civvie, so that means nothing.
Do you remember who MM voted for when we lynched Elo?

This is really frustrating because I can't base judgements on nothing. I need people to state their opinion. I'm interested in what Bea thinks now that Sorsha who she voted for twice in a row was found to be a civvie.

INH, you said Bea wouldn't have voted for Kate if she wanted to look good, but if it was between Kate and herself, would she vote for someone else and get lynched to look good? How would that help her if she got lynched? I'm still not following that logic. The problem with Bea is that I haven't seen many suspicions from her during the game. She did vote for SVS, but that means nothing to me, because if I see a fellow baddie going down, I will vote for them too. Still, the lynch before the last one makes me doubt she could be the baddie.

Then there is DH who is again, doing nothing. If someone wanted to look good, DH is the person who would look best, because his reasons for voting Bea were "to save Kate", and like I said before I thought Sorsha was the last baddie, if he was the baddie, he defended the known civvie and no one could blame him for that. Also, all his actions are reactive, as he always says things in reaction to others and not on his own. I don't know how he plays as a baddie or as a civvie, so I don't know if he's usually like this.

Lastly, MM, who I said was my now top suspect. Well, I'm not sure. If he's the baddie, I'm sure he came on just to see the results and make sure he wasn't being lynched. As a civvie, wouldn't you expect him to let us know he won't be here? As a baddie, he could use it as a safety net if things were going in his favor.

I think it's still between DH and MM for me.
There's still Burgle in the game. I think that if the three discussed won't give some explanations by the time Burgle sends in his night PM, he should just force the others to vote for who is doing the least to help

INH, I think one of us will be the target of tonight, because it's pretty obvious the others are more suspicious, so they will be kept alive.
Do you still think it's MM?

Sorry Sorsha.

I think I had good reasons for suspecting you and there was more than I stated. But I was wrong, and I take responsibility.

INH, even though I take responsibility for being wrong, not one of you, other than Sorsha, suggested voting for anyone else, so none of you blame your vote on me. there wasn't even a discussion on other people.

All the things you said about the other players have crossed my mind as well. What can I say, I hate it when baddies take the easy way out and just barely post, so I tend to give players more credit than that, but I obviously know I can be wrong. I had reasons for voting Sorsha, and they turned out to be wrong.

MM is the person I said was my next top suspect, and he isn't here, so I don't know what to say about him. I'm also not trusting Bea and DH much now so I need to look over what's happened and decide.
I want to hear from each of the remaining who they think is the baddie and why.

Sorsha wrote:You will be very, very disappointed with a sorsha lynch today. A civvie will die and the baddie gets to kill another tonight.

I have not "given up" as fz says above. I'm just aware of the fact that I don't have much going for me as far as proving I'm a civvie. And whenever I am around and able to talk, no one else is. I work third shift, sorry! And the reason for not voting the other day (falling asleep) was not a lie as you say, fz.... It really happened.

So I'm voting Bea. I'm at a sustainability conference right now for school and I will not be able to engage more than this post. Sorry again, but please don't lynch me, I'm not bad!

You're making me doubt myself now. Appeal to emotions work really well on me.
But I'm going to analyze each person to narrow things down:
,
INH- civvie. Just because

Bea- should have voted herself last day for the baddies to have a chance of winning, so voting Sorsha does not make any sense to me if she's a baddie. Unless she considered changing her vote in the last minute. But that wouldn't secure her so I see no reason to think she's a baddie.

DH- there's something too sloppy and lazy about DH's game. I have a feeling he'd be trying a little harder if he were the last baddie

MM- He's the only one who I can't really say anything about. He's a suspect, but Sorsha is more

As much as I'm enjoying the dead peoples' votes. Where are the living ones when we need them

insertnamehere wrote:
FZ. wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
FZ. wrote:INH, who do you think the last baddie is?
I'm really not sure, but I do feel like a Sorsha lynch would be informative. Unless someone can show me another decent case, that's what I'm probably going to go with.
In what way will it be informative? I think that if everyone votes for her and she's a civvie, we learn nothing. I just really think she's not.
It means that I'm trusting you on this. If Sorsha is bad, then congrats for sniffing her out, the game is over. If Sorsha is civ, then I'm probably going to very suspicious of you.

No one is forcing you to follow me. I happen to trust you for several reasons, and I thought you already figured my role, but all of this has nothing to do with the fact I think she's a baddie.
I don't see how her coming out a civvie is going to make me your prime suspect, especially since you're not suggesting anyone else, but whatever.
I also think she's kind of given up, which makes me feel even better about my choice. It's hard being the last baddie standing when there are so many civvies still alive, and I think she realizes that she's going down. Plus, not once this past day and night has she said who she's suspicious of at this point, so that's another reason for me to think she's bad

insertnamehere wrote:
FZ. wrote:INH, who do you think the last baddie is?
I'm really not sure, but I do feel like a Sorsha lynch would be informative. Unless someone can show me another decent case, that's what I'm probably going to go with.

In what way will it be informative? I think that if everyone votes for her and she's a civvie, we learn nothing. I just really think she's not.

INH, who do you think the last baddie is?

Since no once commented yet, and I don't know how much I'll be able to be here later on, I just voted Sorsha. If anyone can convince me the baddie is someone else, by all means.

Twist.

I completely forgot about BWT.

I'd really like to know what everyone thinks, not just BWT.

Epignosis wrote:Eloh and I are attending a party to promote her cake business. The post will therefore be just a few hours tardy.

Free food, free beer, free wine.

Have fun

I guess I'll see the results after I get home from work tomorrow.

And I'm ruling the others out because all of us were here voting, and if two civvies were on the verge of being lynched, the one who had the most to gain by not voting was the baddie

insertnamehere wrote:
FZ. wrote:
I know I'm not the baddie, and I assume you know this too, and it's not INH either. I am 99% it's not DH or MM which again, leaves Bea and Sorsha.
Now, if Bea was really the baddie, she would have voted for Kate and call it self preservation. At the time she voted, she didn't know I would vote for Kate, so if she wanted to stay alive she would have done that (because she probably assumed I wouldn't be voting for Kate).
Sorsha, on the other hand, had nothing to lose by not voting, and I don't buy the fell asleep claim, it's too damn convenient.
Why are you ruling out DH and MM? Also, if bea was bad, and she then voted for Kate, that would have seemed too suspicious. I'm not really sure if that defense really works.

Because it was either die at that moment, because I'm sure she never thought I'd vote for Kate, or be saved another day and try to convince us then, that she's a civvie. If you're the last baddie standing, which would you choose?

bea wrote:there's no baddie kill tongiht.

and also -of us me and sorsha - who are you more suspish of?
and why?

Glad to know you read what I write

I said I think you're the civ and Sorsha is the baddie. Was I wrong to think that?

I think it's pretty obvious Burgle will side with the civvies, because he wants to win, and he'd be an idiot not to join forces with the civvies. So that makes it 5 civvies.
So if I were him, I'd consider forcing people to vote for Sorsha.

Even if the baddie has a NK tonight, which I doubt he does, because if I'm not wrong, he can only kill on even nights, and he kills one of the more sure civvies, we still have 4-1 and can afford to make a mistake and remain 3-1 come next night. So even if I'm wrong about Sorsha, and it's Bea, we can still win the game.

I know I'm not the baddie, and I assume you know this too, and it's not INH either. I am 99% it's not DH or MM which again, leaves Bea and Sorsha.
Now, if Bea was really the baddie, she would have voted for Kate and call it self preservation. At the time she voted, she didn't know I would vote for Kate, so if she wanted to stay alive she would have done that (because she probably assumed I wouldn't be voting for Kate).
Sorsha, on the other hand, had nothing to lose by not voting, and I don't buy the fell asleep claim, it's too damn convenient.

So there you have it. Sorsha is the last baddie, and if by any chance, I die tonight, make sure to take her out next day.

*obviously (not obvious)

DharmaHelper wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:The no double targeting rule leads me to think INH is Burgle, if that wasn't immediately clear in my skepticism.
Wait

Looking at the roles, Burgle forces three people to vote for a certain person. If this hypothesis is correct, and I was Burgle, then there should have been a fourth vote. There wasn't.

Burglekutt
The bully landlord. Each Night, he can command two people to vote the same person the next Day. If Burglekutt isn’t satisfied (the person didn’t get lynched), he may steal the Night power of either of his targets for the Next night. Wins by surviving so long as Willow and Bavmorda are both dead.
Looks like someone forgot to read while coming up with a cover-defense.

Honestly, I don't think it matters because Burglekutt obvious got what he wanted. All he needs is to survive, and his best chances are with the civvies. So hopefully, he'll be playing for that team.
So I think our focus should be on the last baddie, and like I said, I'm pretty sure it's Sorsha

Sorry Kate. I'm sad that you had to die.

Please listen to me.
The civvies can easily win this game if we just unite. There is a reason Sorsha didn't vote today and it was because she didn't mind who was going to get lynched, just as long as it wasn't her. Also, since I said I was pretty sure she'd vote for Bea as well, she didn't bother doing it, because it wouldn't have helped her look better. So she just waited and probably planned on saying she missed the vote. There are less consequences to that.

In anyway, even if you don't like what I've done, I'm asking you all, if there's a blocker still alive, block Sorsha. I think there's no one else who could be the baddie. This is only important if the baddies have a kill tonight. If not, we take her out next day.

DharmaHelper wrote:
FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
FZ. wrote:Also, DH, you say you don't want to take any chance, but if you're the baddie, it doesn't make any difference to you which civvie is lynched, does it?
I'm not sure I understand the question.
What don't you understand. If Kate is the more obvious civvie, then voting Bea if you're a baddie who knows she's a civvie too would be the sensible thing to do, because one of them would go down, and you'd be looking good trying to save Kate
But I'm not bad, so I don't understand your conclusion. Since I'm a civvie and there is comparatively a larger chance that bea is not (in regards to Kate) and I'm not sure where the other votes are gonna go, voting for bea makes the most sense.

You're right, but Bea is not the baddie here, I'm putting all my money on this

Kate, I'm sorry. I didn't want to do this, but I have no choice

DharmaHelper wrote:
FZ. wrote:Also, DH, you say you don't want to take any chance, but if you're the baddie, it doesn't make any difference to you which civvie is lynched, does it?
I'm not sure I understand the question.

What don't you understand. If Kate is the more obvious civvie, then voting Bea if you're a baddie who knows she's a civvie too would be the sensible thing to do, because one of them would go down, and you'd be looking good trying to save Kate

Also, DH, you say you don't want to take any chance, but if you're the baddie, it doesn't make any difference to you which civvie is lynched, does it?

Kate wrote:I think I have an idea who sorta is. You dont?

No. Sorry, but I'm really bad at the hints to roles stuff

DharmaHelper wrote:
FZ. wrote:Okay, I've caught up, but I'm still going to be in and out because I have some stuff I need to prepare for tomorrow.
In any case, I think it's very interesting that the three talked about people still haven't voted. I'm not going to vote yet because I want to see how they vote. I think that could be quite telling.

For what it's worth, I don't think Bea is the baddie, but I'd like to see what she says.

linki@ just saw you voted. But do you think Bea is the baddie or not? You want to save Kate and take another civvie down, or do you actually think she's the baddie?
With INH's and Metal's votes in, I'd rather not take the chance that Kate might be lynched.

I'm afraid it won't help, but I do have to wonder about those votes. At least one of them. Unless I'm missing something

I have a feeling Sorsha will be voting for Bea as well. Which would leave me even more sure Bea is not the baddie

Okay, I've caught up, but I'm still going to be in and out because I have some stuff I need to prepare for tomorrow.
In any case, I think it's very interesting that the three talked about people still haven't voted. I'm not going to vote yet because I want to see how they vote. I think that could be quite telling.

For what it's worth, I don't think Bea is the baddie, but I'd like to see what she says.

linki@ just saw you voted. But do you think Bea is the baddie or not? You want to save Kate and take another civvie down, or do you actually think she's the baddie?

Sorry I can't be here and read things right now. I'll definitely be back before deadline

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