The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:00 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:54 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:40 pm Epi, do you agree with kyle's assessment that you were attacking LC with hyperbole and strawmen?

No.

LC explicitly called cb, Mesk, and Sloonei civilians. There was no consideration given that I could be "buddying" a teammate, as JoH suggested (however the hell one does that).

He also has taken anything I have said or done and says I am "setting up a long game" even though I have never before in my four years of playing Mafia done that Day 1. Instead of considering angles in which my words and actions indicate a civilian, he presses on with his unfounded, circular nonsense.

There is no strawman fallacy or hyperbole, and even if there is, so what?

I'm going to explain a thing you're pretending to not understand one time out of the goodness of my heart. I won't continue to do so because it is tiring.

LC posts that you are bad and you are buddying Bob and Mesk. The implication is that since scum doesn't buddy teammates, if LC is correct in his suspicions, Bob and Mesk would by definition be town.

LC is not claiming to have figured out Mesk or Bob's alignments outside of this, which is obvious.

I am not claiming that scum buddying a teammate is a thing, which is also obvious.

No more straw men. Townies don't gain anything from willfully pretending not to understand accusations.

Nope, sorry, but I'm sure LC appreciates you helping him out with the explanation.

Yes, I do very much. I didn't want to have to "waste my breath" countering such a ridiculous argument. I can't even believe you're sticking to it. Come on, Epi.

Regardless of who "buddies" whom, the argument is entirely circular.

Furthermore, he called Sloonei a civilian in the same post, as he said I was intimidating a civilian. You believe LC identified three civilians Day 1 based solely on "empty filler" (his word) directed at two of them and that I was intimidating a third one?

If you believe that, I've got a mountain to sell you in Rhode Island.

WHY do you make me DO THIS? I wasn't "identifying" them as Civilians. It's an obvious and necessary assumption in order to be able to accuse you as I have.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:36 pmHow does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

A valid question.
[/quote]

I already let someone else prove it's not valid. Are you following along ok?

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:34 pm As for the cbob and mesk no-vote posts... they're empty filler. Neither of them are in any way real or substantial gameplay. There was nothing about mesk's "dirt" comment that should lead to any alignment decisions. IF you really feel the need to read into it, it indicates a general ignorance or the game structure, which doesn't show as good or bad. And I don't feel like it was even that. Does anyone disagree with this?

And the Rocket Man lyrics response is equally devoid of value. So Epi would have spared his vote for any player who acknowledged his Elton John joke. Why? It doesn't even plant a seed that could grow into a suspicion, it doesn't put anyone on the spot, the only effect is to make cbob slightly more comfortable.

So cut and dry, what does this tie back to? What are you trying to say?

What I am saying is that both of the referenced posts by Epignosis are devoid of content or attempts to gain information or a better understanding of the players. In short, they're filler posts, attempts by a Bad Boy to be present and seem relevant.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pmTownies don't gain anything from willfully pretending not to understand accusations.

This is a well-said point that explains a large part of why I haven't dropped Epi as a suspicion.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:47 pm okay this has turned into nonsensical arguments that are getting us nowhere. remind me to never again sign up for a game with both Epi and LC because it just always turns into this and we never make progress

My arguments make sense.

And I think that each of the previous games where I have locked horns early with Epi have a) contained plenty of content that was not related to Epi or myself, and b) made progress.

You want to see a game that didn't make progress? Compare early Pirate Mafia to later Pirate Mafia. Before I died, I came after a few people for smaller details just like this, things that pinged me. I had two of the three Mafia members in my main 3 or 4 suspicions, and I led the lynch of baddie MP07 before getting nightkilled. After I died, the game slowed to a sludge, and the baddies handily guided it to a win.

Story time is fun - I told one, now why don't you tell me a story about the time Epi and I ruined the game by butting heads?

As for the cbob and mesk no-vote posts... they're empty filler. Neither of them are in any way real or substantial gameplay. There was nothing about mesk's "dirt" comment that should lead to any alignment decisions. IF you really feel the need to read into it, it indicates a general ignorance or the game structure, which doesn't show as good or bad. And I don't feel like it was even that. Does anyone disagree with this?

And the Rocket Man lyrics response is equally devoid of value. So Epi would have spared his vote for any player who acknowledged his Elton John joke. Why? It doesn't even plant a seed that could grow into a suspicion, it doesn't put anyone on the spot, the only effect is to make cbob slightly more comfortable.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:12 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 pm
Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

Wait a minute.

How does Long Con know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?

Indeed.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:08 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 pm
Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

"Buddying" two civilians on Day 1 is not going to stop my lynch if that is what the majority wishes (not that I agree I have "buddied" anybody).

What? You don't see the relationship between the number of Civs that believe you are Civ, and having the majority lynch?

Sloonei is not going to be intimidated by me to the extent that he won't vote for me if he feels he should (not that I agree I have intimidated Sloonei).

Maybe, maybe not.

You are, as usual, starting with the conclusion that Epignosis is bad and making everything I do fit that conclusion.

Not really, I started with observation of your behaviour, then came to the conclusion that you're bad.

Of course, you have no response to this:

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:53 am You are implying that "setting up a long game" is something I, as mafia, would do on Day 1. That is mistaken. The fact is I don't bother with long term planning Day 1 when I am bad. It's antithetical to success in most cases, because to be good at being bad, one must be flexible and able to dance. And I am a fine dancer.

"I am not that bad at being bad" or "I wouldn't say that if I was bad" argument tend to be super unconvincing to me.

Can anyone who has ever been bad with me point to a time when I set up a long term plan Day 1?

If not, why would I start now?

Classic. "If you can't do a ton of research and find that I acted the exact same way previously, then your accusation can't be right." Do people still buy that forced-meta crap?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:59 am If Long Con is a civilian, then is most likely means he is genuine in his suspicion of me.

If his suspicion is genuine, then his accusation that I am being deliberate and calculating in my dealings thus far should be one that he can logically explain.

Already done, but you want more words?

In other words, if I know what I'm doing (i.e., being deliberate in "setting up a long game"), and Long Con is calling me out on that, then he should be able to explain how my actions in the thread so far will benefit my team and me down the road. What is the long game and how am I expecting it to play out?

Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.

If he can't answer that, then his suspicion isn't genuine, and he's trying to get a quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way.

Let's get this quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way, folks!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:08 am Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I'm not really buying the idea that she feels guilty about rolling Mafia, making it affect her very first post in the game.

Suit yourself. *votes Epi*

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:11 am He's buddying them, and then intimidating you out of an adversarial position. He's setting up a long game. That's not what Civ Epignosis cares to do.

I could see all of this being applicable to Epi in his current form. But he is as crafty a townie as he is scum, so I'm not going to leap to any quick decisions on him.

That just might be the main reason he survives when scum.

He's buddying them, and then intimidating you out of an adversarial position. He's setting up a long game. That's not what Civ Epignosis cares to do.

Me too! *vote Epignosis*

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:40 pmI'm better at being scum than that Sloonei.

Can you provide proof of this?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:13 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:43 pm I thought as much. Wouldn't you say that's kind of a scum tell for you?

Which part of that is a scum tell for Jack?

Good question; Jack, in answering my question, be a dear and answer Sloonei's as well please.

I thought as much. Wouldn't you say that's kind of a scum tell for you?

Don't you like me?

Mesk514 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:22 am check? hi? hello? is this thing on?

It sure is, sistah! Are you a little mountain or a big one?

I like to keep this in my playlist for appropriate occasions:

Still though... Olympus Mons is over twenty-one kilometres high! (That's like 13 miles for those of you still waiting to join the metric world). I can't even imagine such height.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:21 pm Right, this is my . . . second traditional Syndicate game? Wow, I've been around long enough to lose track. Guess that means I'm a regular now.

Let's go stomp those little mountains!

Yeah, let's go stomp those little mountains!

How come Mars gets to have such a big mountain?