Return to “Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]”
<3 Sorry to be a dipshit on your birthdayQuin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:53 am Hi guys,
Sorry to not immediately pick up on the stuff that came up earlier today. I've been busy with uni and birthday stuff all day. I'll reach out to anyone I feel I need to, but thanks those who stepped up in my place!!
just a reminder that if you ever feel attacked or uncomfortable in the thread, come rant at me instead of your fellow players. I can take it, promise!
I'm not sure I follow your wording but are you asking if Sig flips it essentially confirms Mac is scum? I don't think it would 100% without a shadow of a doubt confirm it, but pretty damn close. I think there could still be a world where sig is scum and mac isn't, but it's a pretty low chance.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:47 amI didn’t say the words that I meant. If Sig is scum, it is generally agreed that their team targeted Mac night one and he didn’t die, prompting Sig’s attack on Mac which carries in a vacuum?nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
I feel like you know things. Like from a scum perspective.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:44 amJJJ said no and Sloonei said inconclusive. I tend to lean inconclusive but I haven’t ISOed TexMex.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:40 amOkay, any likelihood he's on the radish team then, in which case Mac could still be on the master team?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
(Actually asking this, I don't remember anything specific about ted's equity or lack thereof with radish/sabie)
LolMacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:38 amThis is a really strange take for anything other than a mafioso exactly teammates with Radishes and Sabie.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:35 amMeh. I have read the evidence and I refuse to admit that I might be wrong.nutella wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:13 amThat's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
Okay, any likelihood he's on the radish team then, in which case Mac could still be on the master team?TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:34 amOkay I’m getting lost in all of these nets but this definitely doesn’t scan. If Ted is scum, he knows that Mac is not. He doesn’t need to probe Mac to try to find that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:01 am I encourage everybody to read in detail those Ted quotes that Mac posted, and tell me if that's not a scum looking for a read on Mac while pushing a g-man scapegoat agenda
TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:42 amthis is right.MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:49 am Let me rephrase. He can do whatever he wants. But it should not be looked upon favourably by anybody who actually understands how to win this game. What he is doing is a specifically scummy strategy. If he was town he would attempt to cause the lynch of somebody he thinks is a good lynch.
If I am wrong for voicing this or your natural reaction is to mock me for it then I question how seriously you're taking winning this game as a civilian.
if Mac is scum this is moot I think but in either case if I’m serious I’d be spending more time trying to find a better lynch.
ironically Mac knows that I’d be more serious about it if I were scum.
But I don’t care enough to save Mac.
This is a fun take. In a world where Mac isn't on the Master team I could entertain a world where Ted is. Also yeah I feel like we haven't heard from him in a while.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:35 am Yeah dude that POV looks scum af. Like Ted's bad but he's not sure if you are, and leans towards you not being bad. He's leaning, but it's not a civ looking for another civ, it's a baddie making a gut call
That's not all of it. His interactive history with Radish and Sabie is nasty.TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:37 am Is it not the case that the entire case against Sig hinges on him swinging at Mac night one and then TMIing?
[mention]Sloonei[/mention]nutella wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:38 pmI expect more from her by now in terms of reacting to stuff and asking a lot of questions. She's kinda like juliets in that she asks a lot of questions, and (somewhat unlike juliets) I believe that it pretty strongly indicates her town meta when she does, and she has a hard time replicating it as scum. I know she was offline for a bit but I still feel like I haven't seen as much as I expect from her since day 1.Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:23 pmwhat is michelle's meta and why/how is she not on it?MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:35 pmI can't remember why I thought tranq was bad. I probably was just piggy backing someone elses suspicions. Michelle is just not on her meta.
How is it skating by when it has clearly drawn your ire? I think it is conspicuous in a way that is more likely town than scum. But idk.Dom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:21 pm @Sloonei
I asked Turnip Head if someone Jack said was an indication if he was bad or if he just did not like it. He ignored me.
He asked the same question later.
So... I ask you, what civ motivation is there to avoid accountability, but demand it from others? What civ motivation is there to then apologize for this behavior and change nothing?
Is that sincere? Is that earnest game solving?
Or is that hoping to skate by?
Agree with all of this. These names are definitely all going in my poe whenever poe starts being a thing. That said, none of them are priorities for today's lynch imo.MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:13 pmA great deal of people. The constant focus on myself (and now Sig) is very much allowing for a game environment where people who are absolutely failing in their basic civilian duty, or not living up to their usual standards are receiving little to no pressure. I have reservations about all the below;
Epignosis - Does not appear to be earnestly attempting to achieve a civilian wincon.
ColinIsCool - Only appears to be trying when there is pressure on him.
Michelle - Does not match her meta. Hasn't helped the civ cause really at all.
speedchuck - Does not appear to be the same speedchuck that I am used to seeing.
sprityo - Appears to be totally laying low outside of intermittently FPS reading me scum.
Tranq - Has literally made 5 posts or something.
Well I think you and he are teammates so this is interesting coming from you. What are your thoughts?MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:09 pmCan we talk about the Darth Sloonei shaped elephant in the room?
I just answered your question? I'm sorry, i really don't see what you mean here. I'm not trying to shut you down I'm just explaining why i don't think your suspicion is sound.
Like I just said. The motivation is to keep their thoughts quiet so baddies can't take advantage of them, then they can solve better late game. Sometimes it's best not to voice every read you have out loud.
He wasn't assuming the worst he just assumed you meant those names went together for a reason because you gave LITERALLY ZERO CONTEXT!! Jesus.Dom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:49 pm "Dom never engages in good faith"
Nutella's bff assuming the worst in me. If he's baddie (which he probably is) it's a good play. But hey... I'm the one who argues in bad faith.
Turnip Head civ reads me and hasn't responded to a single question I pose to him, apologizes, still does not answer them...
yet I'm the one arguing in bad faith.
Get bent. Fuck off. You're either just being rude, judgmental, and personal or you're a pretty transparent baddie.
This man is town, fools.G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:47 pmOdd G-Man is odd. I didn’t trust you, so I wasn’t going to do anything to bring about a result you wanted. Call it crocodile-brain logic. In the absence of wanting to lynch someone specific, I resorted to not voting with a perceived enemy.
I am not. If anyone is gaslighting, you are. Most of your "suspicions" take the form of "this person didn't answer my question the exact way I wanted therefore they are bad" which doesn't account for different playstyles that can easily be town motivated in the case of TH, and in the case of Ted you actually assumed in bad faith that he had deliberately avoided something when in fact he just hadn't seen it. That's very much a bad faith assumption. You need to learn to assume the best intentions in people. Also how on Earth am i steering you away from Mac lol, I am literally one of the biggest proponents of a mac lynch,no idea how you could miss that.Dom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:32 pmI made a similar list and was told it was dumb or baddie somehow.
Nutella2.0 is being emotionally manipulative. She is telling me all about how nice she was to me throughout the game and she’s oh so sad that I see through the bullshit and using that to steer me away from Mac.
....So you got what you wanted, a town nanook flip which absolved you of any obligation to suspect radish, because you had specifically only tied radish to nanook. So you were free of reason to look like you had to suspect your teammate.sig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:29 pmSo the entire baddi-gate was cleared up quickly. Which would've been main reason for my Radish scum read, that plus his first few posts were scummy. I'll need to check my posts I'm pretty sure I talked about him in mega D2 post/N1.Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:24 pmOkay but what about Radishes? If nanook was suspicious for that, radishes would also need to be suspicious. You continually said nothing about radishes. During your Day 2 mega post you suggested that you had laid out your thoughts on him in an ISO, but I don't see any evidence of this. I triple checked your posts just to be sure I wasn't overlooking something.sig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:23 pm
Nanook came out way to defensive seemed like a teammate overreacting to a mafia member being targeted.
It was cleared up nobody else took it seriously so it reset my reads. Keep in mind I already had a scum read on Nanook when that happened so it reset them and my read on Nanook was still there.
He had some bad posts so was fine with lynching him, but he didn't seem that bad. I wasn't seeing the major case on him, which obviously was my bad.
Yes, so your suspicion of nanook was entirely dependent on radish being bad, yet you did not pursue radish even when he became more of a common suspect and only cared about nanook.sig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:23 pm
Nanook came out way to defensive seemed like a teammate overreacting to a mafia member being targeted.
It was cleared up nobody else took it seriously so it reset my reads. Keep in mind I already had a scum read on Nanook when that happened so it reset them and my read on Nanook was still there.
"Hurr durr conveniently there are items and secrets so I can say there's potential loopholes and pretend I don't know stuff"sig wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:09 pm Literally just lol, so dumb can't pull up quotes and all right now but.
1. My main point on Mac has nothing to do with Nightkill.
2. It was a logical conclusion to the movement of other players and how much they went after him. Plus the fact the janitor kill was used. To say this is a flip which proves I'm bad, yet ignore the slip I called out, except to make me look worse, on Radish is just dumb.
Not to mention again, how many info roles and items are there?
But, sure the only possible solution to this assuming it wasn't just my thoughts is I must be teammates and made such an obvious thing. On someone who've I been going after since N1 and almost all of D2. But decided to just mention that now?
The gaps in logic are wide here.
.....no? Why are you making this about you lolJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:42 pmLike the whole "I bet Mac got shot and is bulletproof" thing is cancer.nutella wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:39 pmYou seem out of touch. Ok boomer. Get with the times. Sig is bad, it's what all the cool kids know.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:38 pm I'm gonna be so annoyed if Sig is scum. Like that post about Epi earlier only moreso.
It's more the idea that I've had people say I'm teamed with Radishes and if Sig really is an antimonitor scum player, people are going to say I'm tied with him too and it'll be annoying.
Ok boomer.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:38 pm And if we lynch Sig and he flips town, I get to decide tomorrow's lynch okay?
You seem out of touch. Ok boomer. Get with the times. Sig is bad, it's what all the cool kids know.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:38 pm I'm gonna be so annoyed if Sig is scum. Like that post about Epi earlier only moreso.
Oh lol syntactic ambiguity. It got svs earlier too
You didn'tspeedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:32 pm I can [VOTE: Sig] aubergine for sure, with Mac on the back burner.
I mean, yes? I do want to lynch mac first.speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:16 pmLiterally first I've heard of this.
(but if he is don't you think we should lynch Mac first? :P)
I was saying gottem before he self voted though. I'm not trying to say that's a significant reason to think he's bad, I'm just saying it's consistent with him being bad which is already believed for other reasons.NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:49 pm I also think anyone hard pushing the “mac has given up, lol gottem” line should be under a close microscope tomorrow
Agreed. Also you said this right after saying "or he's town lolshrug"speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:45 pmDistinctions like this are scummy.NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:29 pm To be clear I think he’s a wolf, I just don’t think that’s why he’s a wolf
I'm just going off mac's history of fighting for his life as town. He fights as wolf too sure, but in this case I'd buy that he is tired of how the game has been going for him and figures his best chance at a win is sacrificing himself and letting his teammates go on. (and maybe he figures if he resigns to being lynched we're less likely to figure out who those might be -- though ofc some people are still defending him, but that doesn't make them his teammates)NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:23 pm Self voting is typically NAI, and not usually worth reading into unless a player has a (meaningfully large sample size) history of only doing it as one alignment.
That's how I read jack's progression on me lol. You're being selective in which lines you read in between. Mac's was more sudden and present in the thread imo so less room for that.Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:39 pmJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:57 amA judgement call based on what? Telepathy?Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:52 amIt's a judgment callJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:51 amOkay so what’s the difference between natural progression that isn’t posted to the thread and unnatural progression that just doesn’t exist?Turnip Head wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:49 am Civs don't necessarily need to show progression they're allowed to change their mind. That's what makes it look natural.What are you a robot? Humans have a complicated thoughtlife and not every word makes it onto the written page. You read between the lines.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:58 am It’s not on the thread. You can’t call something that doesn’t exist “a natural progression.”
