The Syndicate

Russtifinko wrote:I will also submit that I still think BWT bears considering for today's lynch. I feel fairly good about S~V~S and I'm not convinced about JJSJSJJSJSSJJJSJS, but BWT survived an NK, and the way I see it there are only 2 possible ways that could have happened. He also is actively refusing to participate, whereas S~V~S nabbed us our first baddie.

That's partially why I am finally okay with a JJJS vote is because she endorsed it or at least voted that way previously.

@ Dom - Just all the people who have been getting a lot of heat this game. JJJS, BWT etc. I just said "Usual Suspects" to allude to the awesome movie of the same name and to avoid using "etc" or "et al"

PS - Since I do think Johns was saved not by a civ's power but by The Tie Policy, I am going to go ahead and vote him tonight. It's a tad early, but we keep having people pop in all day long.

Sorsha wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
johns2jj wrote:How am I still alive? Who had the power to prevent a lynch?

J2JJ: The following is my theory on how you survived.

Mongoose wrote:what if it WAS a tie. Tim Robbins gets the power of three votes, so if Tim Robbins voted for SVS, that would have tied the vote, since Sockface's vote didn't count.
rew
Thus the would have been tied 4:4
Why do you think pointing this out (twice now) is a good idea Mongoose?
Because J2JJ seemed like he maybe had not read my post, that's all.
Lol... Ok so you were just making sure that everyone was clear about who might possibly be an important civvie role. Got it.

Well not in a way to put a target on them, but more to maybe point out that voting either of the two of them might not be wise. Also just directly answering Johns.

Not switch, what word do I mean? Pardon I guess.

To me a tie seems a bit more Occam's especially in an Epi-hosted game since he doesn't break the ties.

Or Sorsha's post responding to mine indicating that she didn't see any players either that had the power to prevent a lynch switch.

Sorsha wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
johns2jj wrote:How am I still alive? Who had the power to prevent a lynch?

J2JJ: The following is my theory on how you survived.

Mongoose wrote:what if it WAS a tie. Tim Robbins gets the power of three votes, so if Tim Robbins voted for SVS, that would have tied the vote, since Sockface's vote didn't count.
rew
Thus the would have been tied 4:4
Why do you think pointing this out (twice now) is a good idea Mongoose?

Because J2JJ seemed like he maybe had not read my post, that's all.

johns2jj wrote:How am I still alive? Who had the power to prevent a lynch?

J2JJ: The following is my theory on how you survived.

Mongoose wrote:what if it WAS a tie. Tim Robbins gets the power of three votes, so if Tim Robbins voted for SVS, that would have tied the vote, since Sockface's vote didn't count.

Thus the would have been tied 4:4

Sorsha wrote:None of the baddies appear to have secrets so not sure.

For being basically outed it could have been a "consolation" prize? I've seen hosts do that kinda thing under certain circumstances.... not sure about this one though.

I know right. I couldn't see anything when I re-reviewed the rules, but wanted to make sure I hadn't missed anything.

Wait, what if it WAS a tie. Tim Robbins gets the power of three votes, so if Tim Robbins voted for SVS, that would have tied the vote, since Sockface's vote didn't count.

Theories on how JJJS survived the lynch?

@ Host: Can more than one of us select each option?

A is for Alison.

FZ. wrote:
As for Mongoose, there are times when she comes off civ and others when she seems fishy. I'm used to playing a one team mafia and I'm not as good when there are two teams of baddies because everyone looks like they are trying to find scum. Her vote fir Lizzie just seemed to come out of the blue, but maybe I'm reading it wrong.

Heh, I'm surprised (and relieved) that I don't come across fishy in every game, 'cause sometimes that's how I feel, har. I was a bit grasping at straws with Lizzy, but it wasn't totally an un-researched case. The Lizzy Speculum came out of me doing a total re-read of this thread. She gave me thing Ping Flu more than anyone else, but then when I reread her, her stuff wasn't super inflammatory or anything.

I do intrinsically and fundamentally disagree with the assertions some have made that Lizzy was an easy target. Heck, I'm an easy target. I've been an easy target since Day 1 thanks to a very hirsute, spit-oriented DA. It's not that I tried to even dissuade y'all from voting Boo as I wholeheartedly endorsed SVS's mega-case on him. Or said "Lizzy is the only ethical vote!" I may reexamine her on subsequent days. I even said I'd have preferred to vote for Boo, but I had to vote somewhere, and I felt a bit uncomfortable for voting JJJS for all the reasons we've discussed.

Sorsha wrote:
FZ. wrote:I need to go to sleep.
I don't get people saying they won't vote for jj because of Elo using that kind of evidence. It's not like we'll be able to forget it. It's in our minds.
This pretty much sums up how I feel about the jj situation. Lynching a baddie almost always turns up useful information- it's unfortunate how this happened but- it is what it is.

Thanks for this. It really struck a nerve with me today (in a good way). I really wanted to avoid voting him, but I guess that's rather silly, isn't it.

I'm going to go ahead and vote him early (our A/C is broken, so who knows where I'll be prowling around today?)

S~V~S wrote:

The bolded part, you mentioned this a few times. You said you suspected me for voting Mongoose due to her association with Llama. At that time I thought they were teammates, as i know Llama likes throwing teammates HARD under the bus. I was trying to get him to abandon his (what I believed to be, at least) pretense of suspecting her. Yet you seem to be doing something similar with me & John. Initially i did not understand the suspish of John, but rereading boo as extensively as i did yesterday, I saw some stuff i had missed initially.

Speaking of rereading, i saw your comment just now looking for the post above^^ about being 98% sure either Mongoose or i was bad. I had forgotten that. It isn't me.

I have problems reading Mongoose; her light style, while charming, always sets my bells off, and I almost ALWAYS think she is bad. At the beginning of this game, the combo of that and Llamas goofy "case" against her ( "I am voting for you Badgoose!", etc.) had me convinced they were bad teammates. But him turning up Indy threw my read and radar totally off. When that happens i go quiet, which I did until i read boos "shitty case" remark. That woke me up

So to answer your question, I would not be surprised if she were bad, but I have no specific reason to think so.

Linki~ don't the sisters have the even kill? Thats why I have been kinda avoiding posting, tbh, lol.

Note: I wrote the below before I realized that FZ/SVs was talking about suspicion of me being Llama's teammate before he was killed and thus role outed. I made the decision to post the following anyway, so you can maybe gleam some deliciousness from my current thoughts.

But we know Llama was the DA. How could he have had teammates? I read that totally as an independent.

It's true that Llama and I have been teammates before -- actually S~V~S hosted us on American Gods where he recruited me ab initio, but our interplay in the thread was much more finessed. We hardly directed comments to one another at all in-thread, which was probably in of itself suspicious. That said, I know that S.E. Hinton said "That was then, this is now" (lit joke!) but I do cite it as a typical animal sanctuary alliance baddie team repartee. 'Cause, well, ya know, I have to defend myself and whatnot.

I myself have a lot of questions about the role mechanic of the DA. One thing I can gleam from it is it seems to be a very self-serving role.

Checking in. Reconsidering JJ and the usual suspects.

And celebration was had by all.

S~V~S wrote:LOL, No I am not a sister. John might be, i don't know. But I DO know that you are NOT a civvie. Or civvie friendly. And you are much more dangerous than John.

And letting me take control today will rid us of what i can pretty much promise you guys is a baddie.

I promised some post analysis, and I am gonna start on that now.

linki~ good point, FZ.

I keep almost switching my vote to Boo, and then remembering I can't, ha.

Someone asked me what I thought about JJ and SVS. SVS is probably civ? I really think so anyway. And JJ - I keep going back and forth on this one. I'm leery of lynching the new players too soon - someone mentioned how Syndicate is notorious for that. I am definitely keeping my eye on him for day 7 though. In fact, I've waffled internally about switching my vote to him all day long but haven't for two reasons. One is the above reason, which I think is legit and something that needs to be contemplated universally with new players.

The second: This is not something I normally do but as an ode to our host, I thought I would shake the tree a bit with my lizzy vote. While I do feel pings from her, I will admit it's not the best case. I fully intended to vote someone else today, maybe even JJ. But the weird reactions I have received to me are very indicative of protection or something else. Very fishy indeed.

Lizzy, are the sisterrrrrrs doing it for themselves?

So my vote will stand.

FZ. wrote:Hmm, so Ello came in and said she had info on JJ. SVS said she read a book. Isn't that sort of saying you got info as well? Judging by the info I got, you could barely get anything from the latter, so how did that help her learn something about BWT or Ello?

And in a way, it makes sense that if Ello broke the rules, the only way to modkill her and not make it obvious that her info is real is if he made it look like she died from Hadely. But if that's what happened, what happened to the real Hadely kill? It would make the baddies know more than us, and it seems unfair. So bottom line is, I think it probably was a real kill. I also see a possibility where the staff killed Ello, to make us believe she was right about jj. But they couldn't have known, right? So maybe they just did it to keep her out of their business.

Now, Boo's reply to SVS pinged me. Although I'm suspicious of SVS, it made me think she is right about Boo. It doesn't clear her though. They can be on opposing teams. And Mongoose analysis of Lizzie, seemed a bit too easy for me.

I'm not seeing a ton of other cases being made though. And I'm unable to vote Boo he voted the same as me.

Russti - by LP I mean voting a Low Poster.

Also, that was the biggest No U I've ever seen by Lizzybean. I don't think No U's are generally all that indicative of alignment, but I found it funny, nonetheless.

You are always helpful!

I find the abrupt adjustment between the two (safeish and turbulent) the most thought-provoking and/or unsettling.

I agree about the J^4 stuff though. While I personally think a LP vote can fly for Day 2 (and certainly Day 1), I feel there's lots more to go on by Day 6. Everyone's gotta phone in a vote now and then, but it still makes me feel a bit urk.

Gonna go ahead and put my vote on Lizzy in case I am not back in time, but I realize I have the option to switch it around later if I want.

linki - Ooh, what are you getting at the craft store? Modge Podge?

Lizzy wrote:You know what? Shan't randomise. Although I'm not a big fan of civs (oops! slip! ), I have to comply with the rules. A civ friendly SK (yes, Mr Blatch is one whether dead or alive - laying low or not participating at all) is preferable to baddies since the only people NK-ing at the moment are the latter, wouldn't you agree?

The civ-friendly SK comment was a bit alarming. If I am misinterpreting that, let me know. I know we had a brief back and forth at the time about it, but it was a little creepy-crawly to me.

Lizzy wrote:No-one died?

I guess I'll take care of your filthy laundry then...

I would like more clarification on why you were happy no one died - with people killing on both nights, if we lynch a civ, that is bad news bears, dude.

Lizzy wrote:
four. Hmmm, I was going to vote for SVS again, but boo's pick on an inactive supposed SK does not sit right with me, nor does jj'jjjj's bandwagoing for that matter. I may have to randomise out of the three...

These are all good statements, but a bit safe. She's saying all the right things and nothing controversial that anyone is going to fight her on (at that time). Getting out of the SVS vote was only going to make her appear more civ as was coming down hard on bandwagoning and boo's argument for Rey.

Leaning toward a Lizzy vote at this time, unless one of you sways me in that direction. Can't vote Boo, so Lizzy is looking very appealing.

@ S~V~S - I am swayed by your argument (you did a really ridiculously good job laying out your rationale on that), but I can't vote tricksy tricksy Boo today because he voted the same option as me in the Night 5 poll. So I need to look elsewhere.

Lizzy was actually a bit pingy-wingy for me when I did my reread last night, so I will pull some quotes from her.

I'm really glad the vote was tied yesterday. I voted as to not break the tie (or meet the tie). I don't think a tie-breaker would have gone well yesterday.

But just to clarify, the case on Rey was that he was LP and non-participatory? I don't want to impute that onto Sorsha (despite that avvy), especially when the Mister Coffee lynch went so terribly. I'm actually surprised it was even a thing, tbqh.

I'm thinking about fresh blood or a new lead for Day 6 lynch. I'm guessing a re-read will help me with that. Plus, I want to corroborate that any micro-pings in this game are truly from this game and not others (*cough*).

Hope everyone had a lovely Christmas and Xmas aftermath.

And I worked on the roof during Habitat for Humanity a bunch.

I picked Tarring the Roof because I love the Tennessee Williams scribed classic, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof starring the effervescent Liz Taylor and the late great Paul Newman.

Russtifinko wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Mongoose wrote:Voted JJJJ before I forget. Not really buying the case on Rey yet.
Mongoose, knowing what llama was, why do you think he kept voting for you?
That's a good question. Maybe he was afraid I would figure out who he was and latched on to something insignificant I said/did in order to paint me as a monster.
But why would he fear you figuring it out? If he was indy, he had no reason to believe you in particular would want him dead, right? I feel like I'm missing something here.

I've been thinking about this all day. I wonder if he really believed the case against me. Does anyone else that knows him well want to take a stab at it? He seemed awfully genuine in pursuit even though it was tacitly and intrinsically flawed.

Russtifinko wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Mongoose wrote:Voted JJJJ before I forget. Not really buying the case on Rey yet.
Mongoose, knowing what llama was, why do you think he kept voting for you?
That's a good question. Maybe he was afraid I would figure out who he was and latched on to something insignificant I said/did in order to paint me as a monster.
But why would he fear you figuring it out? If he was indy, he had no reason to believe you in particular would want him dead, right? I feel like I'm missing something here.

I may be too, I don't totally understand his role or his alignment to be quite honest. I think if I could decidedly decide on his alignment (I keep flipping back and forth), I could probably analyze that whole situation better.

He's not grouped with the civs, but then he is indie. But he's not grouped with the other guys, either. Maybe I'm letting my law background get in the way of deciding whether he is bad or not, because I see "DA" and think "YEAH! DA! Woot!"

FZ. wrote:
Mongoose wrote:Voted JJJJ before I forget. Not really buying the case on Rey yet.
Mongoose, knowing what llama was, why do you think he kept voting for you?

That's a good question. Maybe he was afraid I would figure out who he was and latched on to something insignificant I said/did in order to paint me as a monster.

Voted JJJJ before I forget. Not really buying the case on Rey yet.

I'm so confused. Are we in Day 5? The subject line has jumped back and forth from Night 4 to Day 5 and back again a couple of times, but I don't see a host post (describing who got NK'd, etc.)

Aren't we still in Night 4?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I want to apologize to our host and all of you. With a combination of being in 2 other games, being incredibly busy, and starting to get sick last night (I have the flu, which is tons of fun), My participation lately has been terrible with this game. I'm trying my best to get caught up but honestly I feel incredibly lost. I'll do the best I can though.

So you weren't silenced?

Trying to figure out if we have other silencer candidates other than Sockface.

johns2jj wrote:Warden Samuel Norton
“Put your trust in the Lord; your ass belongs to me.”
Searches for contraband. If he finds it, he confiscates all of it and sends the possessor to the hole- one phase for each item confiscated. Someone in the hole is silenced, may not vote, and is blocked.

Oh lord, that doesn't sound good. I'm guessing a phase is one day/night cycle. I wonder how long he'll be out for.

There are definitely people I can see faking insanification, but it doesn't seem MP's style at all. It's probably killing him not to be able to respond to posts here and there.

FZ. wrote:I kind of lost track of the game after dying in the other one.

Is it possible that MP forgot about the game, having 2 other games on his mind? I never even thought about being silenced. I'm going to look at the roles again.

I find it very unlikely that Sockface forgot about that game. That seems vastly incongruous with everything I've written down in my Notes on Sockface dossier.

Bullzeye wrote:
Lizzy wrote:You know what? Shan't randomise. Although I'm not a big fan of civs (oops! slip! ), I have to comply with the rules. A civ friendly SK (yes, Mr Blatch is one whether dead or alive - laying low or not participating at all) is preferable to baddies since the only people NK-ing at the moment are the latter, wouldn't you agree?
There's no such thing as a civ friendly SK. SK's by their very nature are nobody-friendly. When you have to be the last man standing you don't have time to make friends. Sometimes when they've been caught they promise to be good boys or girls and only kill people who they think are bad but it's all lies. You should know that, right? The only good indy is a dead indy (note that indies and neutrals are different, indies are on their own and neutrals can win with others. I like neutrals, they're allowed to be alive IMO).

Is there anyone that fits this mold? Other than Rey. Is that really the only reason some players are suspecting Rey? I'm not sure I feel comfortable leaning that way on Day 5. I would want more to go on.

Also to add:

I just checked the other thread:

MP has gone into signature, complete full-on Wall of Text mode in the other game. Even if he is putting more effort into one game over the other, I can't believe he would just totally blow this game off. The power of mafia compels him. He has to be muted, I can't think of any other solution.

Russtifinko wrote:
I had to recheck the player list when I saw this post. I didn't even realize MP was playing. I know he's been busy, but he's started posting a fair bit in WWE. I can't remember a single thing he's said here, which is uncharacteristic for MP. I'm not sure what it means yet, but I hope he comes back and talks.

I know! I don't think it's a coincidence. Why would he ignore this place without good reason? I looked over the roles for a silencer-type role, and I don't see anything that jumps out at me. The SK has "Secrets" listed, but would that role be able to both kill and silence? I'm not sure.

Either way, Night 4 is almost over and maybe MP can give us some information on Day 5.

Welcome, Sorsh!

Matt, I've been really enjoying your output again this game. I think what you said just above is food for thought.

Epignosis wrote:Day 5 will last 48 hours.

Thank you! Hope everyone is better, and able to enjoy their Christmas morning!

I'm here and I've read back up. I'm preparing for parties both today and tomorrow (don't even ask how I got roped into that), but I'll around (running like a chicken with my head cut off). I'll be looking for instances of my name (so bolding helps, if you feel like doing so).

It's hard to know who is laying low this week because everyone is so super busy (and hopefully not having too much internet time!)

@ Host - Dear Sir: Could you consider extended the Day 5 vote by a day? I think it will ensure maxim participation. And probably easier on you!

I voted for Vomps because he is really hard to follow. It's nice being able to change your votes in this game. I hoped my vote would elicit a reaction from him that would give us some clue to alignment. He's slightly more verbose when on a baddie time (probably because he has teamies chafing him up), and I am unsure if that's what I am seeing or not. Plus, I had little time to vote and didn't want to abstain.

I need to phone in this vote. I'm going to bed now. At 11am. I haven't been to bed yet. Oh pretend this is green; I'm on my phone. I have 2 votes and llama has 2 votes so to protect us (I still think he is a misguided civ); I'm going to tie it up with a vomps vote as you all will have plenty of time (and votes) to break the tie.

I don't like to phone in votes and try not to do it more than once per game, so ill try to keep it to this one instance (t's not my fault the Alien quadrilogy was on IFC all night).

FZ. wrote:
johns2jj wrote:Randomized for now to vote mongoose. Will come back later most likely to change vote but just in case I wanted to get it out of the way.
Is this a code for I found something out?
I 'm kind of struggling here because you all play quite differently than I'm used to. Why would you randomize a vote after so many days, and how the hell does Mongoose get the randomized votes in every game...
If you think someone is suspicious and you're afraid you won't make it to vote again, why not vote them, and decide later if you want to change your mind. This either makes you suspicious in my eyes, or makes me think you have something on her and using the "randomized" vote as an excuse. If it's the latter, I'd expect you to convince us to vote her as well, so I'm going with suspicious, and might vote for you.

I did find that super weird, but I wasn't sure if it's just because I was the one randomized.

thellama73 wrote:A lot of the time I see baddies pick off people who are not super engaged, but not completely silent either. I don't really understand that reasoning, but I've seen it happen a lot. I think Dom fell into that category.

Why do you think that is? Why not pick off someone completely silent? The possibility they may return to the game and inadvertently be pro-baddie in their appeals?

thellama73 wrote:A couple of housekeeping items.

2. I have some club soda, handcrafted tonic and half a bottle of gin. I'm in for the night. Let's talk about mafia!

Well Dom got bumped off, let's throw out some reasons why. Just throwing some out of the top of my head.

1. He could have been onto something the baddies didn't want thrown out there and expanded upon.

2. The baddies thought he could have been the SK.

3. It's a frame up to make it look like X did it. I don't think this one is likely though because I don't really recall Dom getting into it with anyone this game.

4. Other

Epignosis wrote:We have arrived safely and uneventfully.

Thank you for your patience. I'll be getting it together to make the post and send PMs.

Are you nice and toasty?

Lizzy wrote:
How about this one q.m.

This video is not available in your country.

Lizzy wrote:Huzzah for prolonged night period. I don't have a favouite quote, butt, I like the way Robert Powell delivered this line (almost) in the film

Matthew 26:52 wrote: Then saith Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
here k

This video contains content from The Orchard Music, Syntax Distribution and Lionsgate, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:It's very reasonable this time of year, so take your time and don't feel bad about it! Safe travels.
I can still post, but I can't host. Can't sleep, truth be told. Do you do anything Jewish-ish for the holidays?
I went to a seder with my next-door neighbor. And ate my weight in latkes and cherry afikoman. Super fun. I also have my dreidl out. I had a menorah but it's been put away now than Hannukah is over. The Christmas tree is now up, woot.

My favorite thing to say to a recently-dumped Jewish pal is "Don't worry, Bubbe. There's lots more Gefilte Fish left in the sea."
I am not Jewish, but I sometimes pray in Hebrew. Is that weird?

Nah, it certainly has a definitely flow.

Epignosis wrote:
Mongoose wrote:It's very reasonable this time of year, so take your time and don't feel bad about it! Safe travels.
I can still post, but I can't host. Can't sleep, truth be told. Do you do anything Jewish-ish for the holidays?

I went to a seder with my next-door neighbor. And ate my weight in latkes and cherry afikoman. Super fun. I also have my dreidl out. I had a menorah but it's been put away now than Hannukah is over. The Christmas tree is now up, woot.

My favorite thing to say to a recently-dumped Jewish pal is "Don't worry, Bubbe. There's lots more Gefilte Fish left in the sea."

It's very reasonable this time of year, so take your time and don't feel bad about it! Safe travels.

Elohcin wrote:
Mongoose wrote:
@ Eloh -What part of FL are you heading toward? Would love to see a photo from her recital! Such fun.
Orlando area...it is where I grew up. You are in Florida, right?

Neat! I am down here in St Petersburg.

Hmm, a bit questionable that I used the Bible to encourage Criterion Collection watching. Whoops!

Vompatti wrote:Ecclesiastes 9:10: Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

@ Vomps - I thought it was funny you picked this verse about due diligence, you feckless layabout

@ Eloh -What part of FL are you heading toward? Would love to see a photo from her recital! Such fun.

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