The Syndicate

S~V~S wrote:Why do you believe that? People are saying things like this with zero backing it up.

We don't know this for a fact, and the fact that Boo & you are talking as if it were true worries me. TBH, I think boo is as bad as they come. He is saying he thinks it is OK to vote for someone for a shitty reason, and i just was floored by that. I can just imagine how boo would blast anyone who said such a thing were he civ. So it is my opinion that he is not a civ. And the insistence that JJ is a sister makes me think boo is staff.

I have no clue as to JJs affiliation. He might be a sister, the staff may have gotten info from contraband. But so far, I am not seeing a real reason to vote for him.

I am not sure about boo, but you could be right that he is staff. I know about JJ b/c I have info.

I truly believe JJ is a sister...not Bogs, but a sister. Based on that, I was trying to figure out who Bogs may be as Bogs is the one with the kill. Bogs goes and the Sisters have no kill, I assume. I thought, from his behavior and interactions with JJ, that llama might be Bogs. I was wrong. If I can get everyone to vote JJ during a lynch, you will see (unless the votes are manipulated and he doesn't get lynched, of course). I am just not very good at explaining my thoughts/cases against people. Suppose we knew for a fact that JJ was a Sister. Just entertain my idea for a moment. Who do you think Bogs is with that knowledge? Anyone want to theorize with me?

I picked laundry. With five in the house, laundry is something I do quite often

I changed my vote to Mongoose. I will change it back to JJ if it looks like he could be lynched b/c I really think he needs to go. But, if no one else votes for him, I am keeping my vote for Mongoose.

It is difficult for me to be active as I suspected. I only see my whole family once a year and on top of that my 19 months old son is sick for the first time :/ However, I am really enjoying this game. I am still under the impression that JJ is a Sister. I am trying to figure out who Bogs is and its driving me a bit mad. I thought Lllama and was wrong. I am now thinking maybe rey/Sorsha. I have been saying JJ was a sister for days and the Sisters had ample opportunity to kill me and have not. So...maybe it is b/c Bogs was inactive. Sorsha is not lynchable right now....so I will vote for JJ and I encourage you all to do that as well.

Hmm...not sure what to say about that. back to the drawing board.

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Voting llama b/c of reasons stated earlier.

You voted against me yesterday, for MrThomas, before switching you vote to, again not me, John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt. If the "reasons stated earlier" were so compelling, why didn't you vote for me yesterday? I find your voting behavior very suspicious this game.

Did you not read my big theory of a case against you that I wrote at the beginning of Night 3? I think you are Bogs and JJ is your fellow Sister.

Voting llama b/c of reasons stated earlier.

Dom wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Post your favorite Bible verse. State why. Argue.

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
Reminds me of how sexist religion tends to be. And makes me sick.

Call me old fashion, but I don't mind not being head of the household. I am happy to submit (most of the time ) I enjoy my wifely/motherly role. It is what I've always aspired to do.

Mongoose wrote:
@ Eloh -What part of FL are you heading toward? Would love to see a photo from her recital! Such fun.

Orlando area...it is where I grew up. You are in Florida, right?

No one has said anything about my theory.

So tonight is my daughters dance recital. Then first thing in the morning, we leave for FL. I will try to stay committed to the thread as much as possible but I will also want to spend time with family of course. Rob (Mr. Computer Hog) and I will be sharing the my laptop. So, we'll see how much time I get on it I'm in two games and he is in one and hosting this one

thellama73 wrote:Elohcin, if JJ was my teammate, why would he keep voting for me when it looked like I had a good chance of being lynched? You are falling prey to confirmation bias, bending the evidence to fit your existing theory instead of drawing the logical conclusions from the evidence.

I don't agree. Let's see what others think of my epiphany.

boo wrote:Well, I am not entirely surprised that he was civ, but I am kind of surprised he had civ BTSC. It does make me think the first-time player BTSC rule applies in this game, so I kind of doubt john now. But maybe Epi accounted for that and Thomas and john had civ BTSC. Bleh, not an easy result anyways.

Are we sending in votes via PM Epi, or is the poll just going up later?

I am doubting JJ too now. I was thinking about how llama kept using his almost death and Nev's kill to explain his civviness.

thellama73 wrote:For those of you interested in actual evidence, consider this:
On Night 1, the baddies tried to kill me.
On Night 2, the baddies killed Nevinera, who vocally defended me in the thread on more than one occasion and would certainly not have voted to lynch me.
It would appear that both baddie teams want me out of the picture. Why? Could it be because I am literally the only person pushing Mongoose as a suspect, and if I go she will be able to recede into the safety of the shadows?

Then I was thinking about the back and forth convo between JJ and llama in the beginning of the game. What if this thread talk was all to distance themselves b/c they really have btsc.

thellama73 wrote:
Aso, John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt has been voting for me without explanation from the beginning of the game. Why has no one called him on this?

More distancing.

We know that Shawshank baddies did try to kill Llama night one. What if Llama and JJ are Sisters. Llama could use his almost getting killed as a "proof" of civvieness. Then llama/JJ could kill Nev on Night 2 (someone who was defending llama), say "the baddies did it" (not a lie) which becomes llama's second "proof" of his civviness.

Then, when I changed my vote to JJ a couple hours before the lynch ends, llama gets defensive. Weird.

What do y'all think, Llambaddie?

Numbers 32:23 "But if you fail to do this, you will be sinning against the LORD; and you may be sure that your sin will find you out. Haha!

No, for real, I have a lot of favorite verses. But Isaiah 9:6 is pretty befitting for this time of year. It shows the prophesy of Jesus' birth many many many years before it was to happen For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Oh and Llama, it makes a difference for me, hopefully not for Thomas' fate.

It's okay y'all...calm down. No baddie behavior here. Actually, it is pure civvieness that is causing me to want to change my vote. And, Llama, I picked someone with NO votes on purpose to try to make sure that Thomas is still the one that gets lynched.

We're getting close to the end of the day and it looks like Thomas is not going to show up and that he will most definitely being lynched. So...I am going to change my vote to JJ. He hasn't been as active lately and I am curious why. Maybe his baddie teammates are telling him to lay low.

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: No, but this is Mafia. Players will read into things too much. They will make up suspicions that aren't really there (like what I see you doing with Mongoose ). Many civs will be lynched in the beginning. It is how it goes. :/ I am one of those players who is often gets lynched early as a civ. It is what it is.

It sounds like you are saying that you don't care whether an innocent civilian gets lynched and intend to make no effort to stop it.

You must have heard me wrong then

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: There are two baddie teams, are there not? I'm not calling you a baddie of one of those teams, just saying it is possible.

Yes, there are two. One of them tried to kill me and the other killed someone who was defending me.

I know your defense, I read your other post. The killing of Nev could have had nothing to do with you though....could have been coincidence. I am not saying you are a part of the baddie team that did not try to kill you, I am just saying it is a possibility. I will not be voting you today FWIW.

Yeah, it is a possibility. But I can't understand why people are so eager to construct contrived explanations to make the evidence fit their conception of me as a baddie, rather than taking the simplest answer at face value. Of all the players in this game, there is more concrete evidence pointing to me being civ than for anyone else. Does it make sense to go after that guy when there are so many other options?

No, but this is Mafia. Players will read into things too much. They will make up suspicions that aren't really there (like what I see you doing with Mongoose ). Many civs will be lynched in the beginning. It is how it goes. :/ I am one of those players who is often gets lynched early as a civ. It is what it is.

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: There are two baddie teams, are there not? I'm not calling you a baddie of one of those teams, just saying it is possible.

Yes, there are two. One of them tried to kill me and the other killed someone who was defending me.

I know your defense, I read your other post. The killing of Nev could have had nothing to do with you though....could have been coincidence. I am not saying you are a part of the baddie team that did not try to kill you, I am just saying it is a possibility. I will not be voting you today FWIW.

thellama73 wrote:I'm just frustrated because I think I have been more obviously civ this game than in any other game I've played, so obviously so that the baddies tried to kill me on the first night. Now three people jump right out of the gate and vote for me, having made no case so far as I can see to defend against. I honestly don't know what it takes to not get lynched early around here. Maybe next game I'll just be like Thomas and not say anything. It seems to work, and it's ever so much fun for all involved.

There are two baddie teams, are there not? I'm not calling you a baddie of one of those teams, just saying it is possible.

thellama73 wrote:
Aso, John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt has been voting for me without explanation from the beginning of the game. Why has no one called him on this?

JJ, what your your suspicions of llama?

boo wrote:voting llama

Why?

For reasons talked about earlier of course. We'll see if he shows up to defend himself.

RIP Nev. I am going to put my vote on Thomas for now.

S~V~S wrote:So anyone read any good books lately?


Teef, i don't know what to tell you. I am sorry and a bit confuzzled if you think the rather clumsy way Eloh & I decided you were trustworthy pinged you. It is what it is.

Yeah, I am sorry too. I am shocked by your reaction to me thinking you are civ.

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote: My problem with the presumption of innocence is that if he's a baddie, generally keeping him out play could be a ploy to still have him around later in the game where his vote could matter, so leaving him in play could bite us in the ass down the line. Voting for him could help force him out and start talking, at which point he would at least be contributing, which could help give a read either way.

My problem with the presumption of innocence also spills over into future games. Ignoring this sort of absenteeism sends a clear signal to future baddies that they can win by simply not playing. I think thta is bad for mafia as a whole, not just for this game.

I agree. I am guessing he is just reading hosts posts and voting. We'll see if he finally starts talking after all of this talk of him. I'd guess if he's bad, his teammates are PMing him and telling him he ought to come in and say something.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

FZ. wrote:
5 people voted for BWT in this order- Elo, BWT, SVS, MP and Boo.
Out of the 5, Elo, just had an epiphany, BWT voted for himself and said that he would be willing to change if we reached a consensus on someone being a civ, SVS suddenly decided that she wants to view him after Elo voted for him and on a second read said she trusted him most as well, and even added as a reply to me asking something, that for all the baddies know, those three could be a very bold different group of baddies. MP said he's moving his vote because he trusts SVS and Elo more than he does Mongoose, and Boo...well, I have no idea why he voted for BWT.

I think this has more of a chance to be a bold baddie vote whereas the votes for llama have more of a possibility of baddies voting for a townie and wanting to look good. Maybe both votes are of the latter kind. But I can see Elo, SVS and BWT plotting and deciding to do this. Does it sound that far fetched? Maybe, lol

When I'm a baddie, I am all about distancing from my teammates and throwing them under the bus. If Elo and SVS were my baddie teammates, I would be yelling and screaming at them in BTSC chat to change their votes to someone else.

However, I don't think that necessarily rules out that one or both of them could be bad. Because out of everyone who has voted for me, they're the main two I think are worth looking at.

Why do you want to look at me for thinking you are civ?.

boo wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Also, how long are we prepared to tolerate MrThomas' complete absence from the thread? I am starting to lose patience with him, personally.

I agree but do we really want to be lynching no-shows on day 3 or later? If he's civ that's a day wasted, if he's bad he's not contributing to his team anyway.

He has shown up, he's voted. He's just never posted.

He hasn't voted in every pole though, right? And...even though he is absent, (if he is a baddie) his team can still use his power if they are sending in group PMs, yes?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote: i can't speak for anyone else, but i think i read you fairly well, and you look pretty civ to me.

Works for me then!

I agree, you don't seems to possess any baddie behavior

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I'm not sure enough about anyone right now.

I take that back. I was busy when I posted before and wasn't thinking straight. *votes BWT*

Well thanks! But is there a reason you feel I'm civvie?

@MP regarding Nev: Not sure yet. Don't have a very good read on him yet. Will go back and check though.

I know I voted you on Day 1, but since then my mind has been changed about you.

Elohcin wrote:I'm not sure enough about anyone right now.

I take that back. I was busy when I posted before and wasn't thinking straight. *votes BWT*

I'm not sure enough about anyone right now. :/ I will wait to vote. Who wants to take a stab at trying to prove they are civ?

RIP MR!

boo wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:I will most likely be voting for MP today.

Anyone have a problem with that?

*Raises hand*

If you had a legitimate reason to vote for him, then sure. But I have yet to see one from you.

Maybe you're trying to deflect attention away from yourself and John?

I'm wondering the same. I am still uneasy about JJ even though this is his first game. Especially if he has BTSC with MP...he could be coaching him.

I assume you meant MR?

But yes, I really think MR and john have BTSC, and while I briefly considered that they may have the civvie BTSC (I was trying to figure out who the third baddie was if I have them being teammates right), I really don't see them playing like they are right now if that were the case, because it just feels like a defeated baddie play.

Yes, MR, sorry. And I think I will go ahead and throw my vote that way as well - as this is JJ's first game. I'm still thinking about Mr. Thomas for some reason, but I will give him the BOTD for a bit longer.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:I will most likely be voting for MP today.

Anyone have a problem with that?

*Raises hand*

If you had a legitimate reason to vote for him, then sure. But I have yet to see one from you.

Maybe you're trying to deflect attention away from yourself and John?

I'm wondering the same. I am still uneasy about JJ even though this is his first game. Especially if he has BTSC with MP...he could be coaching him.

boo wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Boo, FZ has experience, the others I have no idea.

Ya, maybe they can enlighten us, because it changes things, at least for me.

I know Mr Thomas is new to Mafia altogether.

Russtifinko wrote:Well I, for one, think it's probably good no one is dead yet.

Elohcin wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:Looking at the way the last lynch went down, I think a save of MR is a possibility. 5 of the last 6 votes (Matt's final vote being the notable exception) went to Lizzy or MR, which to me is flying pretty thick and fast for a Day 1 where no one claimed to have very strong suspicions. 3 of the last 5 went to Lizzy, one of which was MR's (the others were FZ and S~V~S).

I do think it's optimistic to say that an entire baddie team would reveal themselves so blatantly on Day 1, but it's not completely outside the realm of possibility, especially if MR is the killer. Personally I'm thinking it's worth checking out for tomorrow.

I think you make a good point here Russ. I also think Mr Thomas deserves a look. I know we like to let new players slide through Day 1, but if you sign up you should play.

I don't necessarily agree about Mr. Thomas. I tend to give no-shows until Day 3 before they earn my vote, but that's just personal preference, so I understand. What are your feelings on JJJJJJJJSJJS? If anything, I'd say he's been under more suspicion than Thomas has (though, to be fair, that's arguably because he's been more involved).

And MR, I have no problem with you voting MP. An explanation would be cool, though. Are you voting him primarily because he's spearheading the charge against you?

If this does become an MP vs. MR thing, I'll be very interested indeed to see who falls on what side of it.

I am a bit suspicious of JJ. However I have never played with him before and I am unsure whether this is his first game of Mafia or just his first game on the syndicate. I would like to find that out. But, if he is a seasoned player, my gut says baddie. He is involved enough, but not too involved. Llama bantered a bit with him in the beginning....I am guessing llama was just looking for a reaction. JJ didn't give him much, but that could just be good baddieness.

Russtifinko wrote:Holy crap, we have to vote soon!! I keep missing polls, so I'm gonna be safe and go for MR for now.

We have til' after 5, don't we?

FZ. wrote:
No one died? That's good.
Do the stories reveal what really happened or are they for flavor?

It depends on the game and the host. They are usually meaningful when Epi is the host. Looks like there was an attempted kill on llama. I suppose the killer was blocked.

Glad you're still around Llama, even if you think Mongoose is bad for a silly reason

Russtifinko wrote:Looking at the way the last lynch went down, I think a save of MR is a possibility. 5 of the last 6 votes (Matt's final vote being the notable exception) went to Lizzy or MR, which to me is flying pretty thick and fast for a Day 1 where no one claimed to have very strong suspicions. 3 of the last 5 went to Lizzy, one of which was MR's (the others were FZ and S~V~S).

I do think it's optimistic to say that an entire baddie team would reveal themselves so blatantly on Day 1, but it's not completely outside the realm of possibility, especially if MR is the killer. Personally I'm thinking it's worth checking out for tomorrow.

I think you make a good point here Russ. I also think Mr Thomas deserves a look. I know we like to let new players slide through Day 1, but if you sign up you should play.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

FZ. wrote:How does it work? You're allowed to talk at night, but the I see the game moves a lot slower. Is it because people don't have to make a decision about who to lynch?

Correct!

I also think players are quieter at night b/c it is when the baddie team kills.

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Mongoose wrote:I'm not too concerned. Llama wrongly suspected me in Homestar Runner and slowly saw that he was a gentleman and a scholar but wrong. And I'll think this same thing will happen here since it's the silliest thing since Lohan decided to try "acting."

linki - lol llama.

Oh c'mon, The Parent Trap remake was awesome, but that is where her career started and should have stopped.

Two words: Freaky Friday

Ah yes I am sad to say I owned that once upon a time. So, I take it back...Freaky Friday was good too. I have a thing for lame juvinile movies My 19 year old brother and I like to watch them together. And, yes, I know how odd that sounds.

Mongoose wrote:I'm not too concerned. Llama wrongly suspected me in Homestar Runner and slowly saw that he was a gentleman and a scholar but wrong. And I'll think this same thing will happen here since it's the silliest thing since Lohan decided to try "acting."

linki - lol llama.

Oh c'mon, The Parent Trap remake was awesome, but that is where her career started and should have stopped.

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:why would she defend JJ as civ then?

Why wouldn't she? Baddies defend civs all the time. If they only defended other baddies, it would be really easy to get all of them once we got one.

Okay, I see your point. I still don't agree with you about her post being a slip up.

why would she defend JJ as civ then?

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I don't see Mongoose's post as a slip. I am constantly re-reading the roles as well as the game plays out.

Trust me, I'm right about this.

So, you are saying you think both her and JJ are bad?

I don't see Mongoose's post as a slip. I am constantly re-reading the roles as well as the game plays out.

Well, I guess no lynch is good for now. It gives us a little more time to find the scum I do like the sound of that

I picked Snow Falling on Cedars. Great book!

johns2jj wrote:
JJ works but I am starting to like john jacob jingleheimer thing as it uses my real initials.

I went to school with a John Jacob who went by JJ

Mongoose wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I'm voting for Boo. He strikes me as shifty this game.

I'd vote trade this for ease, but you already have 2. Did either of them even post when they voted for you?

John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt did, but Thomas did not.

I think Mr Thomas is new to mafia (can someone confirm?) so he may not know it's the protocol to do so.

Thomas is new...first time playing.

Mister Rearranger wrote: @Eloh: As I'm finding out on another site in another game, "scum" and "town" are variants on our slangs for "baddies" and "civvies". I said "civ" in that game and people were like, "lolwut?", haha.

That's funny
Day 1 vote is difficult....*votes BWT*

Bullzeye wrote:

FZ. wrote:The way I see it, people know not voting is going to draw attention to them, so scum would not allow themselves to miss a vote. Furthermore, I could maybe see scum avoiding a vote much later in the game, and having to make a really good excuse for it. But the night 0 poll? No one would miss it on purpose.
So I'm trying to decide if people pointing fingers to Mongoose for this reason are the scum themselves or have gotten something out of the poll and trying to hide it with a really bad excuse. Since the mentioned people seem smart to me, I really don't get the logic here.
I think it was Mr. rearranger who gave that reasoning, but I'm not sure. Too many names to remember, sorry
Same goes for the BTSC talk. Would Thellama and Mongoose really say it if they were scum working together? It would be more likely to me that one is now trying to look good in the eyes of the other by defending them and feeling bad, but I don't know if I think that is the case either.

Well I know Llama and Mongoose are good friends outside mafia, and they're both very good players. I really don't see them admitting so openly that they were baddies together. I don't think I'd be voting for either of them today.

Good observation FZ. And, I don't think I've heard anyone refer to the baddies as scum before...maybe it will catch on.

Bullz, I agree. I will not be voting llama or mongoose today.

Awesome host post Epi. I always look forward to reading them And no, I am not sucking up FZ. Did anyone get any info. about their vote in the prologue poll?

You are hee-larious Logan

As for Red finding out if the person received the contraband or not, I doubt he does. If he did find out, he would automatically know if the player he was to give the contraband to was a civvie or baddies, yes? And, if you look at his role description it doesn't say anything about secrets. This makes me think he will not know.