The Syndicate

Good game, everyone! Congrats juliets!

I really thought we could win this one, so I am a bit disappointed, but so many people played brilliantly (Dom and MetalMarsh throwing me off the track, and juliets of course). Great work to all.

Russtifinko wrote:
Metalmarsh89 has been lynched. He was the Goblin Sapper (Goblin Town Goblins).

Dom AND MetalMarsh?! I thought I was trusting my gut too much. Really, I wasn't trusting it enough.

Snow Dog wrote:
insertnamehere wrote:Why am I on the poll?
A mistake

If INH gets to be on the poll, I want to be on there too!

thellama73 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:C'mon Netherlands!!!!!
i had them pegged to win the entire World Cup. If they get knocked out by Mexico I will be crushed.

Yay!

Snow Dog wrote:C'mon Netherlands!!!!!

i had them pegged to win the entire World Cup. If they get knocked out by Mexico I will be crushed.

Leamiteo wrote: Llama

Yes, it is very sad. But don't worry, I'm planning on coming back as Llama the White any time now.

Russtifinko wrote:
thellama73 has been lynched. He was Gandalf.

Finally.

I voted for Bullzeye for reasons previously explained.

Bullzeye wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Bullzeye wrote: You have no right to criticise my votes when the ones you bring up are the ones where you did exactly the same thing.
That's an absurd statement. If I make bad choices in my votes, I'm no longer allowed to baddie hunt? I forfeit that right? This post does nothing to make me feel better about you.
What I'm saying is your entire case rests on me definitely being bad because of two things which you also did. If I have to be bad because of those votes then surely you're bad as well? You did exactly the same things for pretty much the same reasons but now you're basically acting like you shouldn't be under suspicion for that but I should.

The difference is that I know I'm not bad. Others are free to suspect me if they like.

kneel4justice wrote:Like, this is really getting on my nerves.
I'm tired.

I guess you didn't really want to have a discussion after all.

kneel4justice wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
kneel4justice wrote: You're also allowed to have an actual discussion, but I guess you don't care to.

I'll get over it.
What would you like to discuss? I have time.
I wanted to discuss how you agreed with Epi? Or is it that you don't truly agree with him, you just suspect Bullz as well?

I agree with him that Bullz is bad. I don't really care in what way Bullz is bad.

Rmember that time I quoted all the questions Dom had asked and pointed out that he never discussed anything, just solicited opinions?

And then remember how Dom turned out to be bad?

K4J, you keep saying you want to talk about things, but you never talk about things. You only question. You never conclude. You never make cases. Epig called you out on it and you got mad at him, but you still haven't actually said anything.

It's the exact same pattern of behavior Dom showed, and Dom was bad.

You want to have a discussion? I am listening. Discuss.

kneel4justice wrote: You're also allowed to have an actual discussion, but I guess you don't care to.

I'll get over it.

What would you like to discuss? I have time.

Bullzeye wrote:I'd never discussed TH.

Teammates often forget to discuss each other.

Bullzeye wrote: You have no right to criticise my votes when the ones you bring up are the ones where you did exactly the same thing.

That's an absurd statement. If I make bad choices in my votes, I'm no longer allowed to baddie hunt? I forfeit that right? This post does nothing to make me feel better about you.

kneel4justice wrote:Epi: Bullz is Smaug.

Llama: Presents voting records that would imply Bullz is on the Goblin Team.

Bullz: Tells Epi there is no evidence and no reason for anyone to agree with him.

Llama: Says he agrees with Epi (who, might I remind you thinks that Bullz is Smaug).

K4J is not allowed to question the conflicting statements from Llama, even if just trying to provide logic or develop an understanding! K4J must be bad!

OK.

I am done.

You're allowed to question anything you like. I am allowed to think your questions reveal you as a baddie. It's a very laissez faire sort of system.

Bullzeye wrote:When I voted for Snow, TH was not even really being discussed

The following discussion about TH took place on the day he was lynched, BEFORE Bullz voted for Snow.

Epignosis wrote:
juliets wrote:I do want to know if she is your leading suspicion at this point in time.
No. This cat is:

Turnip Head wrote:But I'm not convinced about you, though you seem to be flailing. But it looks to me like the lynch train is headed your way unless you help slow it down.
Eh? He has one vote, and many have stated they may not vote for him.

Post-resurrection TH...let's see what's there:

Turnip Head wrote:Mongoose, if we don't lynch you, who would you suggest we look at instead?
First on-topic post.

Turnip Head wrote:I think Mongoose is more likely to be Gollum than Smaug or a goblin. Gollum likely has The One Ring, which could explain Mongoose's disappearance/escape from the Day 4 lynch. Given the way the past two votes have gone, I think poor Goosey is more likely to be living in a cave pitiful and alone than she is to have any teammates.
Pardon me?

Bilbo Baggins
Possessor of the Ring, which gives him special powers. Also the dwarves' burglar, despite being a homebody. Initially doubted by the dwarves, he continually goes up in their estimation.
Gains +1 vote every 3 Day periods. May have the opportunity to burgle from Smaug.
Regarding the greened, if you thought Mongoose was unlikely to have a team, why vote for her?

Turnip Head wrote:Voting for Mongoose. She didn't respond to my question about who we should be looking at other than her, so it seems like she's given up, which usually means baddie.
Seems like she's given up? Hell, by this point, Mongoose had 12 votes. Her lynch was inevitable.

People TH 1.0 expressed suspicion of:

MP - first vote.
Spacedaisy
k4j - You called him MP's teammate. Voted him Day 2.
Eloh - Last to vote her on Day 3.
Snow Dog

You know who TH 1.0 did not suspect?

Turnip Head wrote:Llama, I reread Mongoose, and nothing stood out to me tbh. Though I also didn't realize how talkative she's been... I think that's the only thing that stood out, I'm used to Mongoose participating but not being so active especially at the beginning of a game. I have also never seen Mongoose's baddie game before. What makes you think this looks like her baddie game opposed to her civ game?
Not Mongoose.

Turnip Head wrote:I will likely be voting one of my bigger suspects, Daisy or Snow Dog, but I'm looking at the votes to see if I need to save Boogs by voting Elo. I do not feel comfortable with the suspicion on Boogs so far.

Linki: Hmm, good point about his vote possibly being forced yesterday, Epi.
Here TH 1.0 expressed interest in saving Boogs. TH 2.0 even voted A Person to save Boogs on Day 7.

But what about Day 6?

Turnip Head wrote:I don't think Boogs should be lynched, I've never understood the case on him and it seems to have snowballed to where he's getting votes just because he's been discussed the most at this point.

I'm voting Daisy. I know she's had a lot going on in RL apparently but I think she's flying low because all her teammates got lynched at the start of the game.
Spacedaisy had no votes at the time. However, Vompatti and Boogs both had 4 votes apiece at the time TH 2.0 voted. This means that the talk of saving Boogs was disingenuous, even if TH 2.0 voted for A Person on Day 7.

That brings me back to Snow Dog.

TH 1.0:

Turnip Head wrote:Snow Dog's vote from yesterday stands out to me:
Snow Dog wrote:I think I suspect Elochin and Mongoose most but I might suck it and see and chuck a vote on k4j .
Snow Dog did not show any suspicions towards k4j until Snow Dog abandoned his top two suspects - both of whom had votes - to "chuck a vote" onto k4j. But then, 11 minutes later, Snow Dog says:
Snow Dog wrote:I just randomised the llama voters and got the wombat.
At the time of Snow Dog's throwaway vote for Vompatti, FZ and k4j were tied at 4 votes apiece, Elo had 2, and Mongoose had 1. There were a few quick random votes in between Snow Dog's first post and his vote post 11 minutes later... I think Snow Dog tried to blend in with the BWT's self-vote and Vomp's "defend Mongoose via randomization" vote. I think Snow Dog wanted to avoid accountability.

Turnip Head wrote:Interesting that Snow Dog only replies to Llama's defense of him, and not to the post I originally made about him which llama is commenting on. Vompatti was literally the only person to vote for llama, and probably the only player who had even expressed suspicion of Llama. Llama needed no saving, no defending, and I would argue that Snow Dog should have known that. That was not the reason Snow Dog should have thrown away his vote, when he seemed to have solid, relevant suspects (Elo and Mongoose) and also seemed briefly to have an itch to "chuck a vote" onto k4j.

Who else tried to buddy up to you, Logan, and got caught red-handed?

Turnip Head wrote:I will likely be voting one of my bigger suspects, Daisy or Snow Dog, but I'm looking at the votes to see if I need to save Boogs by voting Elo. I do not feel comfortable with the suspicion on Boogs so far.

Linki: Hmm, good point about his vote possibly being forced yesterday, Epi.
TH 2.0:

Turnip Head wrote:But I'm not convinced about you, though you seem to be flailing. But it looks to me like the lynch train is headed your way unless you help slow it down.
That suspicion just...dissolved?

Turnip Head wrote:To the players who are feeling a Snow Dog vote, I'm curious to know who you think his teammates might be. The only surface-level connection I would be able to draw to Snow is CBK, but she is insanified, and also appears to suspect Snowy based on her answer to Dom's question, which doesn't seem very teammate-like at this stage. If the Dog is bad, I'm not sure where I'd look next for teammates, which makes me think perhaps he doesn't have any and that lynching him is the wrong call.
Cart before the horse. How do you look for teammates before you've established someone even has a team? I'm pretty sure I know one of yours though.

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Rob, how are you feeling about Snow Dog these days? That last post seems to tie TH 2.0 to him. Do you think I'm on the right track, or way off?
Does it tie TH 2.0 to Snow Dog, or does TH 2.0 know Snowy is highly unlikely to be bad? I don't know- not important to me at the moment. But the difference between TH1 and TH2 is night and day:

Boogs:

TH1 felt good about Boogs and TH2 felt good about Boogs. Swell.

Mongoose:

TH1 felt good about Mongoose and TH2 felt bad about Mongoose.

Snow Dog:

TH1 felt bad about Snow Dog but TH2 feels good about Snow Dog.

++++

Whereas TH1 was involved in detailed analysis, TH2 says rather vague things. Look at his last post. It's a block of text, but what all does it really say? It's mostly fluff.

kneel4justice wrote: For the time passage [TH] should have came in with opinions rather than just discover new ones, IMO.

Dom wrote:Epig, are you more suspicious of TH or Snow Dog? I think you answered this, but I feel like it got lost.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: I'll need to look into TH 2.0 a little more tonight. I think Epig might be onto something there.

kneel4justice wrote:I would say that my two main suspects are Hedgie and TH.

I just reviewed some of Hedgie's posts, and for the most part I did not see any real material as far as suspicions go. There was discussion, but it wasn't striking me as moving forward (and I don't mean offense by this). She was talking more about the game in general rather than suspicions, for example pointing out that the Moria Goblins may be dead, what it's understandable to point that out, there was no moving forward action, IMO. There's also talk about Boogs voters but nothing solid, more trying to get discussion started without actually discussing, at least that is how I read it. Again, I mean no offense by that!
Her vote for AP also didn't require much actual suspicion last day, IMO.

Then with TH, I have just felt the way he came back into the game has not been what I'd expect. He's quiet and not necessarily making moves and cases which I liked and thought spoke good for him last time. His most recent post is a little bit better and more than what I expect from him but it hasn't been consistent so I'm thinking it might have come too late.

juliets wrote:Epig, thanks for your answer re: TH. I will re-read him carefully and see if i can see the differences.

Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Turnip Head wrote:I think Mongoose is more likely to be Gollum than Smaug or a goblin. Gollum likely has The One Ring, which could explain Mongoose's disappearance/escape from the Day 4 lynch. Given the way the past two votes have gone, I think poor Goosey is more likely to be living in a cave pitiful and alone than she is to have any teammates.
Pardon me?

Bilbo Baggins
Possessor of the Ring, which gives him special powers. Also the dwarves' burglar, despite being a homebody. Initially doubted by the dwarves, he continually goes up in their estimation.
Gains +1 vote every 3 Day periods. May have the opportunity to burgle from Smaug.
There's also this:

Gollum A pitiful, miserable creature and the owner of a Ring of Power (these facts are connected). Lives alone in a cave, eating raw fish and practicing riddles.
Secret
It says he has a Ring of Power, and it also says "secrets". I thought it was a reasonable explanation.
It may seem like nitpicking, but when it comes to words, I nitpick.

A few years ago, our TV (among other items) was stolen. The thug who took the TV was its possessor, we were still its owner. In the book, Gollum still considered the ring *his* even though Bilbo had come into possession of it.

You omitted the main point I was making with that though:

If you believed Mongoose had no teammates (as you said), why vote for her?

Turnip Head wrote:
Epignosis wrote:People TH 1.0 expressed suspicion of:

MP - first vote.
Spacedaisy
k4j - You called him MP's teammate. Voted him Day 2.
Eloh - Last to vote her on Day 3.
Snow Dog

You know who TH 1.0 did not suspect?

Not Mongoose.
You're right, I did not suspect Mongoose, and if I had been alive on Day 4 I probably would have defended her from her accusers, as I did not see a case on her but rather bandwagon groupthought. But TH 1.0 was not alive when Mongoose survived a lynch and then acted sketchy afterwards. My opinion of Mongoose changed based on her behavior after her first attempted lynch, not because of my role or because my alignment changed. And there's a gap in my thought process due to the fact that I had no thread presence the first time Mongoose was lynched.
But you never expressed any of this then, so there's no way I can know if you're just changing the narrative now. All three of your Day 5 on-topic posts were directed to or about Mongoose, but none of them said what you are saying now.

Turnip Head, the major difference between you then and now is that TH 1.0 was calling people out, naming names and hollering for the rope. TH 2.0 is instead naming people who are probably not bad.

Apart from a (weak) case on Spacedaisy (one that could be made against a number of other people), you haven't named anyone you felt was a goblin since you've come back.

And whatever happened to your k4j suspicion?

thellama73 wrote:Snow, you only have one vote. Turnip Head also has one vote. I think it's a little premature for you to act so defeated.

thellama73 wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:Well I'm willing to vote for Hedgie or TH.
So is anyone going to have a conversation with me about this, or no?
Okay. Why Hedgie or TH?

juliets wrote:k4j, what do you see about hedgie and do you see the same things Epig does about TH? I thought TH's responses were pretty good.

Sorry for the long post, but I was making a point.

Bullzeye wrote: Neither of you have brought up any evidence. Epi says he thinks I'm Smaug because he's crazy and you think I'm bad because nobody has really discussed me, which is frankly ridiculous. You talk about me voting INH first but you did it second. To be honest I have no issues with having voted INH. He earned it through his behaviour.

I think vote records count as evidence.

K4J made the same "you have to choose either Smaug or a goblin" argument when he was being suspected, and it continues to make no sense.

K4J and Bullz voted the same way on Days 2, 4, 5, and 9. On Days 3 and 6, one of them voted while the other missed the vote.The only time they've been opposed in a meaningful way is on Day 8, when Bullz tried to bail out TH while K4J threw him under the bus. I believe k4J and Bullz are on a team. I believe K4J has escaped narrowly from lynches one too many time. There is a reason he keeps being suspected. He is just good at talking his way out of it.

kneel4justice wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Oh and added to the vote list above is Bullz being the first vote for the extremely civilian INH.
I am confused. Do you think Bullz is Smaug? Why does Bullz voting for a civillian make him more likely to be Smaug than someone who voted for a mafia member?

I'm confused as to why you think I have to pinpoint a role to think someone is bad. Bad is bad.

If Epig believes the evidence points to him being one bad role, and I believe the evidence points to him being another bad role, the combination does NOT make him less likely to be any bad role. What do you care whether we get Smaug or a goblin, unless you are also a goblin?

Oh and added to the vote list above is Bullz being the first vote for the extremely civilian INH.

Bullzeye wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
I am I I cram am I azy. cram cram I I crazy. I I cram cram azy. crazy. I I am cram I am cram azy. I azy. crazy. azy. I am am I azy. I am crazy. crazy. cram am I I I am crazy. crazy. cram cram crazy. am I azy. I azy. azy. crazy. azy. crazy. I cram I crazy. cram cram am cram cram am cram azy. am crazy. cram am I cram am I I I I am I I crazy. azy. cram I azy. cram am I crazy. I cram cram azy. I cram I azy. cram I azy. I crazy. I I I am crazy. am crazy. cram crazy. crazy. I azy. crazy. azy. crazy. azy
Exactly. So there's no reason for anyone to agree with you. Glad we got that cleared up.

I agree with him.

thellama73 wrote:So I did a bit of vote analysis in an attempt to be more objective since my gut has been wrong all game. I'm going to assume that there is at least one goblin among the Snow Dog voters trying to save TH. Looking at the voting records of those people, the worst one (apart from me! Ha!) is Bullzeye.
Snow Dog, FZ, Missed Vote, Mongoose , Mongoose, Vompatti, A Person, Snow Dog.

He's gotten next to no scrutiny all game, and I think it's interesting that he defended Boogs so hard after most of the Moria Goblins were dead. A baddie could do that and be (almost) sure that they were defending a civilian, which would make them look good. Before the demise of the Moria Goblins, he was much less adamant about anything.

Bullz will be getting my attention today.

Heck, I'd be down with a Bullzeye lynch. He has had far too little scrutiny this game.

RIP Blooper.

Yay no Smaug kill!

Madam Mayor may well be dead, for all we know.

But I like where your head's at.

Snow Dog wrote:Shall I vote BWT logan?

I don't know why you would listen to me, but yes.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:Why not just make it a several-ways tie and let the fates decide?
Because I don't think you could affect Smaug the way I potentially could. Otherwise, I would be perfectly fine with Lady Luck getting involved.

Oh, I understand. Everybody vote for BWT.

Why not just make it a several-ways tie and let the fates decide?

Kylemii wrote:i don't really feel like voting for anyone who's volunteering to go in, does anyone specifically not want to go into the cave?

I don't.

If any one is having difficulty with the riddle, I refer them to the classic Edgar Allan Poe short story "The Gold Bug."

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:Logan, are you seriously volunteering to be sent in?
I did answer your question, and I did vote for myself, so if you guys think I am the best man for the job, I will go for the good of the order.
What good is a llama against a dragon?

If you knew anything about llamas, you would not have to ask that question.

Snow Dog wrote:Logan, are you seriously volunteering to be sent in?

I did answer your question, and I did vote for myself, so if you guys think I am the best man for the job, I will go for the good of the order.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: Linki: So what's the theory behind MM being Smaug? Because this is the first time I remember that connection being made. Of course, my memory is also terrible at times.

Truth in jest.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Who's Smaug? We should send them in.

Snow Dog wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:So, do you think the poll is voting for someone we don't trust?
I don't know. I'd rather risk a baddie getting gold than risk roasting a civvie.

Who's Smaug? We should send them in.
You are.

Agreed.

Snow Dog wrote:Who has solved the runes?

kneel4justice wrote:So, do you think the poll is voting for someone we don't trust?

I trust myself and I am not afraid of Smaug.

Heck, I'll go first. I ain't a'scared.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Linki: Hedge got third though.

Still.

Russtifinko wrote:Oops, Hedge is dead too. Man, this game has been a bloodbath lately. She is not awarded any Gold, obviously. Thanks also to Dom and Spaghetti for entering!

That means I get first place gold, especially since my sister is the one who took the picture and made Hedge's entry possible.

I am pretty proud of this post though.

thellama73 wrote:So I was thinking about the case on Kyle. It is predicated on him replacing AP, who has a reputation of not sending in PMs and being inactive, as juliets said. Yet, if you look, AP/Kyle has only missed one lynch vote. Guess who has missed the most of the living players?

Dom. Who has missed four. (although he was temporarily dead for one of those.) What follows is a summary of Dom's contributions since his resurrection.

Dom wrote:

It was fun while it lasted. I snicker at you, Logan!

Can't wait to talk post-game!

Goddammit.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:
fingersplints wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:So, what do people think of my last post to BWT?
I have been meaning to reread him. From memory his posts have struck me as infrequent, but generally reasonable. But I also feel he has been flying below the radar a little bit.
And the time he didn't fly under the radar was when he was insanified. Lol
If INH flips bad, I bet you dollars to donuts that BWT is his teammate.
What's your reasoning behind this one?

You've seemed very non-committal about the discussion on INH. You'll concede weakly that some of his actions don't look all that good, but it is without vigor or conviction. It has the flavor of someone sensing the inevitable but being unable to fully commit underbusthrowing. Until recently, you and INH never mentioned each other, which is common for baddies on the same team.

I imagine there are different methods of becoming insanified this gae with different rules.

Sometimes insanity curses come with a requirement that you post at least ten times in a day period. That may be what motivated his increased activity.

insertnamehere wrote:OK, before I get lynched, and I probably shouldn't say this, but I received some info.

Do not trust thellama73.

Nice try. That is such a bald faced lie and you know it. You have no such info.

thellama73 wrote:
Dom wrote:As long as one baddie is around, wouldn't there be a kill tonight if the kill passes down?
Yes.

Also, Smaug. Rawr.

Dom wrote:As long as one baddie is around, wouldn't there be a kill tonight if the kill passes down?

Yes.

kneel4justice wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:
fingersplints wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:So, what do people think of my last post to BWT?
I have been meaning to reread him. From memory his posts have struck me as infrequent, but generally reasonable. But I also feel he has been flying below the radar a little bit.
And the time he didn't fly under the radar was when he was insanified. Lol
If INH flips bad, I bet you dollars to donuts that BWT is his teammate.
Interesting, I didn't notice any interaction from the two. Was there any?

Not really, apart from some vague "oh you guys are right, INH is a little shady" blendiness. That defines BWT's entire game. Blendy, blendy, blendy. If I'm right, he threw TH 2.0 under the bus (Snow Dog had 5 votes, his gave TH 5) and has been a go-along to get-along kind of guy the whole time. I think the post you made about him was very telling.

kneel4justice wrote:
fingersplints wrote:
kneel4justice wrote:So, what do people think of my last post to BWT?
I have been meaning to reread him. From memory his posts have struck me as infrequent, but generally reasonable. But I also feel he has been flying below the radar a little bit.
And the time he didn't fly under the radar was when he was insanified. Lol

If INH flips bad, I bet you dollars to donuts that BWT is his teammate.

Epignosis wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:So INH was bad in X-Men and Harry Potter. In X-Men, he didn't even post on the day he got lynched. In Harry Potter, he started posting nonsense.

In Willow, INH was civilian (he also responded in orange then for what it's worth), and it was the most focused game I've ever witnessed him play.

I don't know what to make of INH this time. He is not my #1 suspect though. I'm eager to look back at A Person / Kylemii 2.0. No Moria kills for a while, then he subs in, and boom, the kills start again. That's a hell of a coincidence.
My only qualm about this is that AP wasn't that inactive. As I said earlier, he only missed one lynch vote. Do you really think he was missing all the PMs?
He never sent his PM in for Are You Being Served? He was Mr. Humphries and could have prevented his own removal from the game.

Granted, Night 6 was very short. So that would only mean accidentally missing one PM (Night 4).

Ah, insider knowledge. Excellent!

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