The Syndicate

Russtifinko wrote:Some of the best times I've had in mafia have come from not revealing info, like my showdown with DH in Grimm.

This was one of my favorite things ever.

Epignosis wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:I think an important thing to take into account is the concept of prevention vs. punishment. Its all fine and good to have punitive measures in place, but I think a more successful approach would be if hosts developed their games to make it as difficult as possible for infodumping to happen, and as difficult as possible for role outing to occur.

Whether that means writing more secrets into the game to create paranoia and doubt regarding claims, or in-game mechanics that spread misinformation, or whatever the case. I don't think it needs to be a question of "What bad things can we do to infodumpers", but rather find ways to encourage actual effort, and make infodumping and role outing useless or too difficult to warrant.
This is precisely the subject I want to explore.

Even if veteran players refrain from dropping info or outing someone, there will always be newcomers who will, whether out of zeal or inexperience. New people aren't trying to ruin the experience for anyone, and modkilling or punishing the player is going to mar Mafia for them. That is why I think it's important that game designers be cognizant of the role information plays in a game and seek ways to keep it under the players' hats.

While this is true, I think there can be an effort made to better educate newcomers through discussion and example. It appears this has already been happening in the Donner Party game, but I won't say anything else regarding that since it is an ongoing game.

I also think that, while modkilling or punishing is harsh, that if everything is explained to newcomers in a logical and forthcoming fashion, and they have a better understanding right off the bat in games that -- hey, there are a few cardinal rules that are SO important (no BTSC, no role outing, no being a buttface) -- then punishing for newbie offenses can still be warranted and not necessarily mar Mafia for them, IMO, anyway.

For example, if there are information roles, the host could institute a chance of inaccuracy. Or if someone cannot be night killed, have a reciprocal alignment that has the same condition, or a protector, or a combination of these items. Any way to instill more than one possibility or sufficient doubt is a way to counteract role outing mechanisms.

DharmaHelper wrote:I think an important thing to take into account is the concept of prevention vs. punishment. Its all fine and good to have punitive measures in place, but I think a more successful approach would be if hosts developed their games to make it as difficult as possible for infodumping to happen, and as difficult as possible for role outing to occur.

Whether that means writing more secrets into the game to create paranoia and doubt regarding claims, or in-game mechanics that spread misinformation, or whatever the case. I don't think it needs to be a question of "What bad things can we do to infodumpers", but rather find ways to encourage actual effort, and make infodumping and role outing useless or too difficult to warrant.

This is a very good point; I agree entirely.

That said, I don't think hosts should necessarily be afraid to keep certain unconventional mechanisms in place, or even mechanisms that could produce information. However, they should instead keep in mind countermechanisms that spread sufficient doubt when a role outing situation would otherwise arise, if that makes sense.

I agree entirely with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread, and apologize for what I have contributed in the past to not only skirting the rule but also flagrantly breaking it.

I think that it is imperative that players abide by the rules, but particularly this one, and hosts need to start being more harsh in enforcing it. I know that I will be.

But hopefully that won't need to happen now that this discussion has been much more at the forefront recently.

The Syndicate

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