The Syndicate

Yeah, Timmer continuing to survive lynches was so lucky/well-planned on his part because it made me soooooo paranoid. I was scared of trying to lynch him again since I hadn't figured out how he kept surviving.

I really, really, really felt bad at turning on blindfaeth though. That felt all sorts of wrong and I should have trusted my heart that he wasn't who we were looking for. But paranoia is a powerful brain manipulator.

Hugs Kevin again.

Wow, Epignosis! That is an incredible summary and it is so awesome to finally have answers to the mysteries.

I can't believe I used one of my two night protections to save MP on Night 1!

And yes, that Amulet of Charisma truly worked for me in the end. So crazy that a Day 0 item literally affected endgame.

Thanks again for hosting!!!!

Hehe, I didn't lose sleep until this week when it was clear endgame was in sight. I was just so nervous and excited!

So were you sacrified due to llama's rezz , Elohcin? You played an amazing game and I honestly trusted you right up until the very end when it really came down to no one being left (I actually thought at one point that I was bad and that Epignosis just never told me and that was one of the twists ).

Timmer played an amazing indy.

Kate, were you the Sorceress? That's who I had you penciled in as.

Also, big hug to my teammates, blindfaeth, indiglo, and DFaraday (and juliets by way of blindfaeth). We had so much fun in BTSC and I missed our in depth game discussions.

Also, I think MP has truly earned FEB status.

Epignosis, your host posts are simply the most epic of any game ever. I love your writing style and this game kept me on the edge of my seat the whole time.

I seriously cannot wait to hear about all of the behind the scenes stuff because I know my teammates and I were certainly baffled at times.

Great game everyone!

Holy cow!!!!!!! What an ending! I'm in shock! What an incredible game!

I'm really sorry, Kev.

I'm so insanely nervous about the outcome of this lynch and this game.

You know what, I'm going to take a risk and *Vote BF*

I really hate the thought of voting him, but he's not here defending himself and you are, Elohcin.

And if this bites me in the butt and civvies lose, well at least I tried my hardest for the civvies this game.

Timmer, are you leaning towards voting BF based on him being quiet? What do you think about my earlier post?

@Elohcin: I am ignoring llama so don't worry, I'm not letting him influence me. I actually had a different interpretation of his post than you had and frankly wish he hadn't posted it at all because it just made me feel even more confused.

Elohcin wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Flyin' High wrote:Lols, I have this paranoid fear that ya'll are putting trust in me only to lynch me after BF is gone. I actually had a nightmare about this game last night and woke up at 4AM thinking about it.

This is the thought I had at 4AM this morning.

The Tale of the Archer

Epignosis wrote:“So if you ever find yourself in search of someone else, you might do well to start close to home!

“Although in my case, I wish I could lose that bloated harpy that dwells in my house!”

Before he died, llama suggested that perhaps the Archer was a reference to Bow since Bow is the only Archer in the roles. And this got me thinking, the person most "close to home" to llama is Elohcin. Maybe that was what we were supposed to get from it?

Also, Elohcin was the first to suggest the idea that the sacrifice that llama made was the loss of his civvieness, but what if she suggested that because what really happened was when llama got resurrected she lost her civvieness?

The case against blindfaeth is that he's gotten quiet. And yes, that change might be indicative of him changing alliegiance. But it could also be indicative of him being busy or just having gotten drained from such a long game.

I didn't get a chance yesterday to read back through all of Epig's host posts so I'm going to attempt to do that this morning.

I don't want to drag this lynch out, but I feel that we've come so far and it would suck for the civvies to lose now based on a bad decision.

I wish I could advise you on this matter and give my opinion of your very sensible analysis, but alas, the rules prohibit me from doing so.

First of all, how am I any "closer to home" with llama than any one else? Second, I see where you might think this theory could work, but I promise you it is wrong. Unless there is something I do not know about my own role, I am still civvie and I am still on your side. Lynching me will get civvies further from winning. And, llama you shouldn't even have said what you did. That is too much in topic.

I say you're closer to home with llama than anyone else alive based on the role I have you down as in my spreadsheet.

I have just finished reading back through all of Epignosis' posts and nothing really sticks out other than being reminded of some of the night events. I wish I had kept better track of each event and what the choices were/who picked each thing because part of me feels like the answer may lie there.

But alas I do not have that info on hand. I could go back and piece together votes, but that wouldn't give me the full answer of what all of our options were.

I wish I could understand why Zodac has suddenly begun killing at night, but it's apparently not every night or even every other night. Kate was killed Night 17, Nevinera(IMC) on Night 20.

Lols, I have this paranoid fear that ya'll are putting trust in me only to lynch me after BF is gone. I actually had a nightmare about this game last night and woke up at 4AM thinking about it.

This is the thought I had at 4AM this morning.

The Tale of the Archer

Epignosis wrote:“So if you ever find yourself in search of someone else, you might do well to start close to home!

“Although in my case, I wish I could lose that bloated harpy that dwells in my house!”

Before he died, llama suggested that perhaps the Archer was a reference to Bow since Bow is the only Archer in the roles. And this got me thinking, the person most "close to home" to llama is Elohcin. Maybe that was what we were supposed to get from it?

Also, Elohcin was the first to suggest the idea that the sacrifice that llama made was the loss of his civvieness, but what if she suggested that because what really happened was when llama got resurrected she lost her civvieness?

The case against blindfaeth is that he's gotten quiet. And yes, that change might be indicative of him changing alliegiance. But it could also be indicative of him being busy or just having gotten drained from such a long game.

I didn't get a chance yesterday to read back through all of Epig's host posts so I'm going to attempt to do that this morning.

I don't want to drag this lynch out, but I feel that we've come so far and it would suck for the civvies to lose now based on a bad decision.

I know it's not me, and I'm fearful of trying to lynch Timmer again since that hasn't worked for us 4 times now.

Blindfaeth has been a lot quieter. I hate the thought of suspecting him, but if it's not Timmer it's either him or you, Elohcin.

I hate this. This random guessing feels wrong and not the way this epic game should be ending.

But I'm honestly at a loss right now. I had really hoped it was llama since he was the only remaining player that had a logical explanation for possible being bad.

Well, let's hope llama is the baddie we're looking for since unfortunately it looks like he is the victim of us trying to lynch Timmer again.

I feel like I can vouch for BF because he's given me no reason not to trust him other than being quiet. And I can't imagine how or when he could have been "turned to the darkside" so I really feel like it's not him.

I wish there was some sort of thread evidence I could find to help us solve this because I really don't like just picking someone new each day. Feels like the civvies are just being punished at this point.

Well, if you're telling the truth Timmer then my next best theory is it's llama and something changed when he came back from the dead the second time.

Because nothing else stands out with regards to blindfaeth or Elohcin as far as I have been able to tell from reading back.

Elohcin, do you know have any idea about Bow's current status?

Because I may have a huge error on my spreadsheet that completely changes who I'm trusting based on this current conversation.

thellama73 wrote:

Flyin' High wrote: I have wondered why Princess Adora/She-Ra never appeared to be found by Bow but figured the answer for that would have to wait until postgame.

I'm not sure if we would know whether they found each other or not. At this point, we know She-Ra is dead, and Bow may well be. There are a lot of dead people without revealed roles.

If Bow is dead then I must have a huge error on my spreadsheet. You saying that actually confuses the heck out of me.

Quote fail, let me try again.

thellama73 wrote:

Flyin' High wrote:But in a way, I see Timmer as someone I've been trusting so if he's bad then it will still fit in with the Archer's tale I think (at least from my perspective).

I was just rereading the role list, and I came across this.

Bow - Scouts for a member of The Horde each night. If he finds one, he shoots an arrow and role blocks the player. If he finds Princess Adora, he recruits her, earning BTSC. Has BTSC with Glimmer and Madame Razz.

I think the Archer's tale must be a reference to this, since Bow is the only Archer in the roles and it fits with him searching for a woman.

Oh, so maybe the Archer's tale was telling Bow to check Nevinera to find Princess Adora and it had nothing to do with finding the last baddie then?

I have wondered why Princess Adora/She-Ra never appeared to be found by Bow but figured the answer for that would have to wait until postgame.

thellama73 wrote:

Flyin' High wrote:But in a way, I see Timmer as someone I've been trusting so if he's bad then it will still fit in with the Archer's tale I think (at least from my perspective).

I was just rereading the role list, and I came across this.

Epignosis wrote:Bow - Scouts for a member of The Horde each night. If he finds one, he shoots an arrow and role blocks the player. If he finds Princess Adora, he recruits her, earning BTSC. Has BTSC with Glimmer and Madame Razz.

I think the Archer's tale must be a reference to this, since Bow is the only Archer in the roles and it fits with him searching for a woman.

Oh, so maybe the Archer's tale was telling Bow to check Nevinera to find Princess Adora and it had nothing to do with finding the last baddie then?

I have wondered why Princess Adora/She-Ra never appeared to be found by Bow but figured the answer for that would have to wait until postgame.

BF hasn't appeared to even log onto the site since mid-day Monday...hopefully he'll check in today.

And I agree, if we are successful in lynching Timmer and somehow the game doesn't end, then we need to look for a traitor. But in a way, I see Timmer as someone I've been trusting so if he's bad then it will still fit in with the Archer's tale I think (at least from my perspective).

Yes, since Zodac is the only role killing then I think it stands to reason that he's not on the side of the civvies.

And Timmer has been somewhat evasive when we discuss him as of late.

So yeah, I'm down for trying again.

He can't be unlynchable if he's the role that the civvies need gone to win.

Hopefully he's used up whatever protections he had.

*Votes Timmer*

I agree that the tale of the archer is something we should likely be paying attention to. After all, it seems all of the other night polls have had importance to the game.

So the "circle of trust" includes me, BF, llama, Elohcin, and Timmer.

Of that group, I'd say Timmer is who I least trust at this point (sorry friend!) because he's the only non-civvie of that group and since we don't know our win conditions, we just assumed we could win with Timmer.

My only fear comes with continuing to try lynching him when 3 times now that has failed and someone else has died.

But I just can't fathom that he can remain unlynchable forever. After all, we had to lynch MP 3 or 4 times for it to finally stick.

Or it's not Timmer and one of the civvies has turned to the dark side. But I have seen no indication of that happening!

Maybe I'll try to read back through every single one of Epignosis' posts today and see if I missed anything.

RIP Nevinera.

Welcome to the game Nevinera.

I really hope Nevinera is a recruited baddie, otherwise we'll be losing another civvie today.

thellama73 wrote:I just want to say, FH, that if you, BF or Elohcin turn out to be traitors, you deserve congratulations for a hell of a game, because I have been trusting all of you for a very long time.

I can say the same! I really, really, really hope there are no traitors.

Maybe today we vote for Ishar (me, BF, and Timmer since I think we're the only votes left to cast) and cross our fingers that somehow he's the missing baddie.

And if we lose a civvie, it'll be a shame, but at least it's one that hasn't shown up all game.

Then we can regroup and try for Timmer again, perhaps? Maybe another night will shed more light on the situation.

*Linki* I think blindfaeth has become very busy with his new job because he was relatively quiet in the Minecraft game (compared to his normal posting level), and he was quiet in the speed game being played over on RM.

I feel that BF is still completely trustworthy for what it's worth. Though at this point in the game I guess anything's possible? But I'm not ready to suspect him because other than being quiet he's done nothing to make me change my opinion of him.

So I went back and reread the rezz and the mention of the sacrifice is puzzling since I don't think anything ever came of that (at least not publicly).

But I also reread llama's posts since then and they really give me nothing but good feelings.

I do feel like there is something off surrounding Nevinera v. llama, but if there are no original mafia left then I feel like I'd be guessing between the two of them.

Or we need to lynch Timmer and we've all simply assumed that he was on our side.

I am going to go reread the post where llama was resurrected to see if anything sticks out that I never noticed before.

If Merman is still alive and Timmer got incorrect info, then it's not Nevinera. I can promise you that.

The only available person to be Merman would have to be Ishar if we're wrong that Snake Mountain was eliminated.

Here's the problem...if Snake Mountain is still around, then why have there been nights with no missing PMs?

I feel pretty certain he will flip civvie. That's the problem. If we're looking for a recruit, why would the mafia recruit someone who wasn't around to play?

But since this game has so many secrets, I just hope that something happened behind the scenes to make Nevinera be who we're looking for.

Have you decided that Timmer is 100% unlynchable?

I want Timmer to be on our side, but as the numbers dwindle I'm really beginning to wonder.

*Linki* Yes, Nevinera. I hear what you're saying and it's making me wonder too.

Gah, I'm very confused right now.

Elohcin, yesterday you started to accuse llama of being a traitor. What made you post that? Has something changed to give you doubt?

Oh gosh. I really hope Nevinera is a recruited to the badside player because I do not think he's mafia!!!! I wish there had been more discussion before players jumped into a vote.

Nevinera wrote:How did he get lynched at night? -.O

I have a theory that night lynches happen when the lynch is a tie. Now, how the lynch got tied is a whole other can of worms.

Maybe Timmer pulled some shenanigans and put secret votes on Aces? This isn't the first time we've tried to lynch Timmer and someone got lynched at night. Granted, the first time it happened a Snake Mountaineer got lynched (Roxy, Evil-Lyn).

So I am sooooooo beyond torn. Try lynching Timmer again today? Or was a civvie recruited to the dark side? Or is there one baddie floating around?

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Elohcin is saying. And I really hope that this night proves fruitful for the civvies.

Well, with the exception of the surprise death of Kate via Zodac recently, we haven't actually had a night kill in something like two or more weeks. I can't remember the last time the mafia nightkilled successfully. So it's really puzzling.

I just can't understand why Epignosis would suddenly replace the_untamed this late in the game if the role you now have isn't somehow important to the non-civvies. Because adding in one more active civvie just doesn't make much sense to me. And why the_untamed over IMC, another no show this game?

I went to bed last night feeling really frustrated about the Timmer non-lynch. Not as much because I wish we'd been successful, but because it just didn't feel right to me that he's who we're looking for. Timmer really has been actively helping us this entire game and we've tried lynching him 3 times now since this game (I think that's right) to no success.

I think we need to be looking at Aces or Nevinera.

Aces throwing up on the beach is weird. Did he pick a tale? Maybe his tale made him feel ill? But that doesn't make much sense.

Gah, I just wish we had more to go on than simply guessing at this point.

This is getting ridiculous.

Unfortunately I need to vote now. Based on the way I am reading the thing in the Archer's Tale (the sometimes to find something you're looking for, look close to home) I also read that as we need to find someone we trust. And at this point, since it does appear as if Zodac has begun killing, that person I trust is Timmer.

I really hope we're right that the civvies can't win with you, but it's a shame because I had been reading you as an ally this whole game. I also hope we're right that you're the last "baddie" we need to find.

*Votes Timmer*

Ugh, I'm torn between the Nevinera whose posts contain lots of WIFOM of me statements like, "Surely our host wouldn't drop a completely new player into an insanely complicated and extended game as the only remaining baddie?" and Timmer who I am now worried doesn't fit with the civvie win conditions (whatever they may be).

I picked Traitor because if there is a traitor among us, maybe this will shed light on it.

I've never played a game not knowing the win conditions...

timmer wrote:

Flyin' High wrote:
But if he didn't lie and his info was true, then we do have to lynch an indy? Which I think means Timmer?
This is very bothersome.

Timmer, can you comment on this?

It's possible. Not knowing win conditions makes things very confusing, I have no idea what the answer is.

So I guess we're looking at a recruit or an indy that we can't win with.

I don't want to start randomly lynching people.

timmer wrote:So I see no point in not sharing the information i got from choosing "skull".

There is only one snake Mountain player left, and four Horde.

Finally found this post I was looking for! At this point, rey was still alive (this post was made Day 11 (viewtopic.php?p=11962#p11962) and logically was the last Snake Mountain which fits with what we've been thinking for so long. We found the 4 Horde: MP, spaghetti, Stormcrow, and DP.

So either Timmer got false information, he lied, or there are no Snake Mountain or Horde left meaning we have to lynch an indy?

I don't think Timmer could have gotten false info because everyone else's info turned out to be true.

I doubt Timmer lied...he's been very civvie-minded and helpful all game long. But if he didn't lie and his info was true, then we do have to lynch an indy? Which I think means Timmer?

This is very bothersome.

Timmer, can you comment on this?

Okay, I went back and looked at all of the voting orders, on Day 3 Aces was one of the 7 people to vote for He-Man (Tri-Klops, Snake Mountain).

Day 3 Voting Order:
1. thellama (Kate)
2. MovingPictures (DharmaHelper)
3. Vompatti (Snow Dog)
4. DisgruntledPorcupine (Timmer)
5. He-Man (DharmaHelper)
6. Spaghetti (He-Man)
7. The-untamed (DharmaHelper)
8. birdwithteeth (Kate)
9. Russtifinko (DharmaHelper)
10. Spacedaisy (Timmer)
11. AceofSpaces (He-Man)
12. Elohcin (birdwithteeth)
13. Kate (Timmer)
14. indiglo (He-Man)
15. LittleTiger (He-Man)
16. DharmaHelper (He-Man)
17. blindfaeth (DharmaHelper)
18. DFaraday (birdwithteeth)
19. Juliets (He-Man)
20. Snow Dog (He-Man)
Didn’t vote: AllAlongtheBoardwalk, Dom, Flyin’ High, Ishar Morrad Chuain, orsonkidd, reywaS, JJLehto/Stormcrow, Timmer

He-Man wasn't lynched that day, but I don't remember the details at all because that occurred so long ago. Aces was absent for the next 4 lynches. Then after that he was pretty much on board with the civvies in the subsequent lynches. That doesn't 100% clear him, but it's evidence of him voting against a Snake Mountain member...

He was absent for the reywaS lynch. He says he was silenced.

I went to look at the win conditions and couldn't find them. Are they not posted? Maybe we've asked this before and I just don't remember.

@Epignosis: What are the win conditions for this game?

I really hope we haven't been giving Timmer a pass this entire game only to find out the civvies can't win with him (assuming he's the role we all think he is).

Oh, and there's IMC. Forgot about him.

Glad we got the last Horde....but the game isn't over...ugh. I don't want to randomly keep lynching people until we find the last hidden baddie. But yeah, at this point I guess there is still another Snake Mountain? Merman? So Aces or the_untamed. I'll go see how Aces has voted in lynches where we got Snake Mountaineers lynched.

Well, we've had a few lynches where a player was unlynchable for a bit, but then used up whatever protections/vote manipulations they had thus finally becoming lynchable (see MovingPictures).

I have reason to believe DP doesn't have any sort of weird vote manipulations surrounding him today. If he survives then I think we're wrong about him being the last mafia this game because if there is no way for the civvies to take out the last mafia, then what's the point of continuing to play?

We think we've eliminated Snake Mountain, though Epignosis told us he won't confirm if that's true. At this point the only candidates for the last mafia are DP and you. We ruled out AceofSpaces because the Horde tried to kill him early on in the game so we figure unless that was a bluff then Aces isn't a threat.

Since your predecessor, the_untamed, never showed up to play, we decided that DP had to be the last mafia because we felt it would be sucky if this game was still going on due to a no-show player. Honestly, you subbing in has me worried because I have never ever ever seen a host not modkill no shows and on top of that, never seen someone sub in this late in the game.

Granted, I've never played a game that has gone beyond 6-weeks before. A month is more the norm for a game this size.

So yeah, to make a long answer short. I implicitly trust BF, llama, Elohcin, and Timmer due to the way events have played out through this game. So that doesn't leave many players left who could be bad.

Trying to summarize this game might honestly do my head in.

Nevinera wrote:Hi! I'm completely new, so tell me - who can I trust around here? ;-)

I trust blindfaeth, llama, Elohcin, and Timmer. Maybe Aces, we at least think he's not Horde because Horde tried to kill him Night 3. We have reason to think DP is the last baddie in this game so we're trying to lynch him for the second time today. If he survives again, we might just wonder if you're the last baddie!

Ummm....welcome?